Pass the Corona ese... Novel Corona aka COVID-19

[where]

2 minutes ago, SMdoubleXL said:

I don’t mind being corrected or educated on this matter 

 

 

 

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

I’m with @Kults

 

Here go some visual representation.

Cop (NOES).........Handicap person (Covid 19)

[mr.yuck]

I just found out today that a midst all of these shut downs and businesses crashing and burning all around, the IRS has found the time to place a tax lien on me. 

[Hua Guofang]

Regards the wet markets, I think there is a bit of confusion over what they are.

 

Wet markets are seafood markets, which aren't responsible for starting diseases like MERS/SARS/H1N1, etc.

 

The problem in China is that these seafood markets also started selling wild animals such as bats, pangolins, civets, etc. They would be kept live in cages, in unsanitary (inhumane) conditions and in close proximity to humans. That's where the pathogens would jump between species and end up in humans.

 

If the markets re-open and only sell seafood, there is no risk. If they again allow the sale of wild animals, then there is risk.

 

SARS in 2003 went from bats to civets to humans. They banned the sale of wild meat after 2003 but for some reason allowed it to come back again. And as with 2003, they also botched the initial response to the outbreak this time too. (as did Iran, Indonesia, the US, the UK, etc. etc...) So it wouldn't surprise me if we started seeing wild animals back in cages in markets in China again, especially in the south in places like Guangzhou, Hainan, etc. But, bottom line in understanding the risk, it's not the wet markets but the wild meat trade that poses the problem.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Hua Guofang

[CALIgula]

yo man...

 

when this shit first hit i saw memes talking about "boomer doomer" because young people thought they couldnt die from it...only old people could.....a few weeks later and im seeing hella people of all ages dying from it.

 

also I saw memes and shit where people were saying black people couldnt get it (there was even a meme about it here on 12oz).....a few weeks later and not only are black people dying from it, all races are dying from it.

 

now i see certain state governors talking about our conservative state and its citizens cant die from it (so therefore no stay at home orders)......guess what?....the virus doesnt give a FUCK if youre democrat or republican....

 

the shit has the potential to kill ANYBODY.

 

maybe I'm biased cause I was a science major and I did scientific research while at school and after graduating as my first post college job....but seriously....STAY THE FUCK HOME.

 

[abrasivesaint]

Well there’s a nice dose of fear mongering for the day.
 

Worldwide 96% of current cases are mild, 4% are in critical condition. Of those that have “had an outcome” so far, 79% recovered and 21% had died,  (I’m looking at you and your damn Pareto Principle @Mercer) How many of those fall in the elderly and underlying condition category? I imagine the majority. Mainly because every case they were reporting, when the numbers were small enough to report death by death, you’d find buried in the story that it would say.. “82 year old with emphysema.” “65 year old man with a heart condition” and so on..

 

Out of the 3 million+ tested in the US, 19.8% have tested positive, 80.2% were negative. (Again, looking at you and that damn principle @Mercer) Out of the 19.8% positive cases, 4.2% have died.

Out of the 4.2% deaths, 41.5% of those were in New York, and 69.3% were in NY and the bordering states.

edit: Of course people of all ages and races can catch a virus. However, the question is, are the age related deaths outliers, or a true cause for concern? Whatever race and political party talk you’ve see  is obviously just foolishness.  How many people truly believe that? Probably not many. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Hua Guofang]

45 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said:

Well there’s a nice dose of fear mongering for the day.
 

Worldwide 96% of current cases are mild, 4% are in critical condition. Of those that have “had an outcome” so far, 79% recovered and 21% had died,  (I’m looking at you and your damn Pareto Principle @Mercer) How many of those fall in the elderly and underlying condition category? I imagine the majority. Mainly because every case they were reporting, when the numbers were small enough to report death by death, you’d find buried in the story that it would say.. “82 year old with emphysema.” “65 year old man with a heart condition” and so on..

 

Out of the 3 million+ tested in the US, 19.8% have tested positive, 80.2% were negative. (Again, looking at you and that damn principle @Mercer) Out of the 19.8% positive cases, 4.2% have died.

Out of the 4.2% deaths, 41.5% of those were in New York, and 69.3% were in NY and the bordering states.

edit: Of course people of all ages and races can catch a virus. However, the question is, are the age related deaths outliers, or a true cause for concern? Whatever race and political party talk you’ve see  is obviously just foolishness.  How many people truly believe that? Probably not many. 

You work in a hospital so I'm sure you know this. But it's not all about the death rate of the virus but the way it spreads so rapidly. If 10-20% of cases require treatment and come in a tsunami rather than a tidal wave then the hospitals become overwhelmed, the mortality rate rises as not everyone receives the care they need to recover and the other life-threatening events, such as car accidents, other illnesses, etc. also don't get into ICU because it's over-crowded. Death rates elsewhere increase, not just those related to CV19. Then you have the social reaction to a disease that, all of a sudden, has a 10% mortality rate and all the other ripple effects.

 

If you look at the mortality rate alone outside of the context of capacity to deal with a rapid rise of cases, etc. then you miss a major part of the crisis management picture, which is really what it's about.

 

@SMdoubleXLregards the tik tok clips from hospitals, not all hospitals are being hit equally and not all workers in hospitals are involved in the response. When NYC hospitals were being overwhelmed the NJ hospitals were reporting very few cases. That has now shifted and they are very busy. Yet if you go further west, those hospitals are awaiting the spike seen in NYC and similar cities. The impact isn't comprehensive but rolls like a wave geographically and the lockdowns and social distancing has slowed that roll a lot.

[abrasivesaint]

30 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

You work in a hospital so I'm sure you know this. But it's not all about the death rate of the virus but the way it spreads so rapidly. If 10-20% of cases require treatment and come in a tsunami rather than a tidal wave then the hospitals become overwhelmed, the mortality rate rises as not everyone receives the care they need to recover and the other life-threatening events, such as car accidents, other illnesses, etc. also don't get into ICU because it's over-crowded. Death rates elsewhere increase, not just those related to CV19. Then you have the social reaction to a disease that, all of a sudden, has a 10% mortality rate and all the other ripple effects.

 

If you look at the mortality rate alone outside of the context of capacity to deal with a rapid rise of cases, etc. then you miss a major part of the crisis management picture, which is really what it's about.

 

@SMdoubleXLregards the tik tok clips from hospitals, not all hospitals are being hit equally and not all workers in hospitals are involved in the response. When NYC hospitals were being overwhelmed the NJ hospitals were reporting very few cases. That has now shifted and they are very busy. Yet if you go further west, those hospitals are awaiting the spike seen in NYC and similar cities. The impact isn't comprehensive but rolls like a wave geographically and the lockdowns and social distancing has slowed that roll a lot.

Very aware of that. Somewhere previously in this thread i had mentioned that someone who holds a high ranking position at one of the ER departments here told a mutual friend weeks ago that the reason they were being so overwhelmed and resources were becoming so scarce is because the majority of the people coming in were freaking out and had very mild symptoms, sometimes even calling an ambulance because they had a cough. Every potential case now needs to be treated as a coronavirus case. Therefore PPE and all the resources must be used, EMTs now need to be tested, and so on.

 

 I pointed out that 96% of the cases are mild and don’t need hospitalization, 4% are critical, requiring hospitalization. I have talked to everyone i know that works in hospitals, every one said the same thing. Measures were being taking, operating rooms were being transformed into pop up ICUs just in case, triage centers were going up in parking lots, everyone was being talked to about being reassigned to help other departments when shit got crazy.. and it has yet to come. 
 

I also previously mentioned that they’ve been telling hospital staff, next week is peak, for 3 weeks, yet the onslaught has yet to arrive in NYC fashion.

 

I’m not concerned about the mortality rate, but many people are, and are neglecting important factors. I've been saying since the go i don’t think it’ll be as bad as some people are claiming it will be. I’m worried about the people freaking out that have made this whole situation far fucking worse on everyone than it needed to be. 
 

In the end, i think we’re kind of saying the same thing. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Fist 666]

I don't think either of you are in disagreement, just putting forth different details. Other people will latch onto those singular details, remove them from context, ignore other relevant information, and say this is all a sham. (Just peruse this thread and it's paranoid twin).

 

My biggest frustration in having this conversation 10x a week in real life is that we are talking about numbers while we are A. In the early slope of this curve and B. Have taken drastic measures nationally to affect these numbers and their growth. Hindsight will be a motherfucker I've no doubt, but where the US is doing better than predicted,  I think what we will see in developing nations, African and South American specifically,  will give a glimpse to what we might have experienced had we not shut down.

 

Of course, we can only know in time. 

[abrasivesaint]

46 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

The impact isn't comprehensive but rolls like a wave geographically and the lockdowns and social distancing has slowed that roll a lot.

Prime example of why it’s hard to imagine that we’re still staring down “peak week”.. i think peak week has passed at this point, at least for now. Who knows what will resurface. But the numbers being reported right now of new cases are showing slows across the board. 
 

edit: i agree with what @Fist 666just said. Hadn’t seen that before i posted this or edited my previous post. 
 

double edit: just to be clear, by “peak week,” i mean the flooding of ERs and crazy death toll jumps. I think NYC was the outlier here and was blindsided. The rest of country is already on far better grounds than we were 2 weeks ago in terms of preparedness. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Hua Guofang]

Agree with all of the above, especially that some of the 'freaking out' has actually helped blunt the impact of the virus. Of course, I'm not referring to calling the ambo when you cough, but the folk that are just staying home, wearing some kind of mask and doing the distancing stuff.

 

Maybe you're right, @abrasivesaintmaybe peak week has passed, because of the huge response. And agree with @Fist 666, which mirrors some of the convos we had at work when all this started - a lot of the EMA and crisis management folk talked about how the last H1N1 outbreak didn't hit too hard because of all the measures that were put in place. But afterwards there was a lot of doubt in the general public because they saw it all as hype for something that never happened, not that it didn't happen because of the hype. The drawback of a successful response to an outbreak is the complacency it creates for the next outbreak.

[KILZ FILLZ]

It was all a conspiracy to kill the XFL

[abrasivesaint]

You’re really pissed about that XFL huh, haha. @KILZ FILLZ

[KILZ FILLZ]

😂 

[KILZ FILLZ]

Well, shit. Doesn’t look like the stay at home order in CA will be lifted anytime in the immediate future....

 

 

 

[T4M*]

On 4/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, where said:

Check deposited.

Just got it.

[CALIgula]

7 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

Well there’s a nice dose of fear mongering for the day.
 

Worldwide 96% of current cases are mild, 4% are in critical condition. Of those that have “had an outcome” so far, 79% recovered and 21% had died,  (I’m looking at you and your damn Pareto Principle @Mercer) How many of those fall in the elderly and underlying condition category? I imagine the majority. Mainly because every case they were reporting, when the numbers were small enough to report death by death, you’d find buried in the story that it would say.. “82 year old with emphysema.” “65 year old man with a heart condition” and so on..

 

Out of the 3 million+ tested in the US, 19.8% have tested positive, 80.2% were negative. (Again, looking at you and that damn principle @Mercer) Out of the 19.8% positive cases, 4.2% have died.

Out of the 4.2% deaths, 41.5% of those were in New York, and 69.3% were in NY and the bordering states.

edit: Of course people of all ages and races can catch a virus. However, the question is, are the age related deaths outliers, or a true cause for concern? Whatever race and political party talk you’ve see  is obviously just foolishness.  How many people truly believe that? Probably not many. 

How is saying to stay the fuck home because anybody can catch this fear mongering? 

 

When i hear a governor say some shit like "we're not China" or the governor in south Dakota say we're not going to do what looks good.... this ain't about party... it's not about optics... its about public health you dumb motherfuckers (not directed at you saint)

[Kults]

19 minutes ago, CALIgula said:

How is saying to stay the fuck home because anybody can catch this fear mongering? 

 

When i hear a governor say some shit like "we're not China" or the governor in south Dakota say we're not going to do what looks good.... this ain't about party... it's not about optics... its about public health you dumb motherfuckers (not directed at you saint)

So we just shut down the world indefinitely to protect 80+ year olds with emphysema?

I thought the whole idea was to flatten the curb so hospitals didnt get overwhelmed. Clearly that hasnt been the case ( at least here) maybe an outlier like NYC? The virus isnt going away anytime soon, why not let healthy people go  back to work and do a more targeted quarantine at this point?

 

This isnt sustainable.

[Kults]

1 hour ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

Well, shit. Doesn’t look like the stay at home order in CA will be lifted anytime in the immediate future....

Looking like ours will be lifted sooner rather than later

 

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/city-of-montreal-renews-state-of-emergency-until-april-18-1.4895604

[where]

1 hour ago, T4M* said:

Just got it.

 

[CALIgula]

1 hour ago, Kults said:

So we just shut down the world indefinitely to protect 80+ year olds with emphysema?

I thought the whole idea was to flatten the curb so hospitals didnt get overwhelmed. Clearly that hasnt been the case ( at least here) maybe an outlier like NYC? The virus isnt going away anytime soon, why not let healthy people go  back to work and do a more targeted quarantine at this point?

 

This isnt sustainable.

Shut down the world... yes this is exactly what i meant... seriously? Smh

 

Bruh... how the hell are you going to pick a date to reopen things back up? Send people back to work? Easter? May 1st?.. pick a date any date... it doesn't fucking matter.. it's a fucking virus... open shit soon and people WILL get infected

 

Sure, we can let healthy people go back to work... but whos healthy? People are asymptomatic...i guess we could test everybody.. but oh yeah that's right...we don't have enough fucking tests to do that cause of of our fucking inept ass government. 

South Korea making us look fucking dumb rn.

We don't have enough ppe.

 

3000 people died on Sept 11th and the country became unified and looked out for each other...19 years later and almost 30,000 deaths and people are divided as fuck. Wack. 

 

 

[Kults]

Alright Ill bite. So what would you have us do? Just stop everything forever until it just goes away?

 

E: I think it was @misteraventhat had made a good point about testing. You can test today but you might catch it tomorrow rendering the test useless. Many will probably get it anyway, its not fatal to younger healthy people for the most part. I understood the purpose of this lockdown was to slow the infection rate, not wiping out the virus?

[CALIgula]

We test, test, test, test...

 

Meanwhile, stay at home... shelter in place.. including the fucking idiot states fucking this up cause "mah rights to worship jeezus an congreegate"

 

Continue stimulus aid for a few months. 

 

This isn't going to last "forever" .. if we are more strict,  we can be done with this in months.. not years. 

 

Lastly, come together...as a country... stop interjecting politics into it... put your money where your mouth is and support small businesses... order food from local restaurants... contactless deliveries, etc etc.. there's no reason that the best country in the world is dropping the ball so fucking hard

 

Shit pisses me off

[Kults]

I respect your position but I just think the damage being done to people's lives if this continues outweights the good its doing. We agree that taking action was needed but Im not convinced staying shut down for months on end is the right move

[CALIgula]

10 minutes ago, Kults said:

 

E: I think it was @misteraventhat had made a good point about testing. You can test today but you might catch it tomorrow rendering the test useless. Many will probably get it anyway, its not fatal to younger healthy people for the most part. I understood the purpose of this lockdown was to slow the infection rate, not wiping out the virus?

You test so you can get the sick population to isolate. 

 

Not fatal doesn't mean it still won't cause scar tissue on your lungs and inhibit your lung function for the rest of your life... people see the recovery numbers and get a false sense of security... recovery doesn't mean you won't have permanent problems

[CALIgula]

1 minute ago, Kults said:

 I just think the damage being done to people's lives if this continues outweights the good its doing. 

What's the point of going back to work if it's going to get you sick? 

I like money, i like my livelihood too.

I like my health and life better. 

 

I'd rather be an alive and healthy homeless person than a wealthy sick or dead person. 

[Kults]

2 minutes ago, CALIgula said:

You test so you can get the sick population to isolate. 

 

Not fatal doesn't mean it still won't cause scar tissue on your lungs and inhibit your lung function for the rest of your life... people see the recovery numbers and get a false sense of security... recovery doesn't mean you won't have permanent problems

Not a gotcha just genuinely curious as Ive heard the same but havent seen a source to back that up. Post one up if you find one. I think maybe something might be getting lost in context there. Were these people who suffered permanent damage already suffering from respiratory illnesses?

[Kults]

Just now, CALIgula said:

What's the point of going back to work if it's going to get you sick? 

I like money, i like my livelihood too.

I like my health and life better. 

 

I'd rather be an alive and healthy homeless person than a wealthy sick or dead person. 

Thats all good and its your right. I think it should also be a right for others to make that call for themselves

[CALIgula]

1 minute ago, Kults said:

Thats all good and its your right. I think it should also be a right for others to make that call for themselves

When your rights infringes on my right to be healthy, we got problems. I swear if i get sick because some idiot wanted to go to work coughing and hacking and shit I'll be on some fuck everybody type shit

[Kults]

1 minute ago, CALIgula said:

When your rights infringes on my right to be healthy, we got problems. I swear if i get sick because some idiot wanted to go to work coughing and hacking and shit I'll be on some fuck everybody type shit

If youre staying home you shouldnt get sick though. If you do its likely the equivalent of a bad flu. You cant get a flu so a guy can go feed his kids? If someone is coughing a nd hacking and shit they should selfquarantine for 2 weeks. If someone is healthy or shows no symptoms though I think its fair to let them work once we gradually reopen everything in the coming weeks ( again, at least where I live)