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abrasivesaint

Pass the Corona ese... Novel Corona aka COVID-19

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Don't know if anyone beyond possibly @Hua Guofangwould get this but there were reports about 2 days ago that the number of infected had reached 444 and I thought to myself that particular report has to be propaganda because even if that were the exact number there is no Chinese person, let alone Chinese news agency, that would report that number, they would lie and make it 443 or 445 or some shit.  4 is a very unlucky number in Chinese society, basically synonymous w/ death.  Also talked to some people outside Wuhan but in one of the affected areas and was told that what's happening there is being under reported.

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I’ve seen a news report that did mention people that the true numbers were being under reported. 
 

Also saw video of people just dropped dead on the streets getting hauled away by hazmat suits. 

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7 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

Media hype? End of the world? Legitimate threat? Forgotten in a week? 
 

What do the oontzers think?
 

Media spun.  Not end of world.  Longer than a week because it's still going to spread around some, but probably not a lot longer than that.  IMO what's more significant and probably more ignored is this is another case of a potentially deadly and highly infectious illness that crossed the animal/human barrier, heard they suspect from snakes this time. Don't think we're at previous levels yet where they're going to kill all the snakes like they did to pigs and fowl before but if you're a doomsday prepper you may want to prepare yourself for this latest threat.

 

 681b1be2fea030c2c9d0cc0a3d9465f6.gif

Edited by One Man Banned
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Until the people that drop dead get up and start eating those that haven’t, we’re good. 

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I'm not worried.  I stay inside all the time and when I do go outside it's not around other people really if I can help it.  I work with a small team at work that doesn't travel on airplanes so I think I'm rather isolated.  My fear would be a lot worse if I were someone who had to travel on airplanes and get inside airports frequently for work.  Those people might be shaking in their boots.

 

I was actually thinking about this exact subject just the other day after I heard it hit USA mainland.

 

We do have some of the best doctors and medical professionals (even if I don't trust them) in the world so I'm confident they'll figure something out quickly to help everyone.... my condolences to those that have lost their lives already.

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I know this is off topic, but I don't like that many "places of medicine" are called a "practice".  That right there, in the wording, should be an alarm.  The reason I don't trust them is because I compare what they're doing to my own job.  I also have had poor experiences with medical professionals in the past.  One of which owned a "beauty and wellness spa" exactly next door to the medical clinic where they help people with medical problems.

 

I guess I should narrow what I said and say that I don't necessarily trust the part of the medical industry that puts hands on patients.  I don't mean for this to sound like they fail every time or they have a high failure rate, but their failure rate is higher than I am ok with.  An example is, I broke something in my middle finger a few years back hitting it on a wall on accident.  I hit my finger sideways, I was brushing lint from a blanket that was on a bed against the wall and my finger hit the wall sideways with some force and made a pretty audible popping/cracking sound.  It instantly hurt pretty badly and I figured no big deal.  I let it ride for a few days in a finger splint but the swelling in my knuckle didn't go down.  So I went to the doc.  This is the one w/ the spa.  He told me that I needed to just put it in a splint and it would be fine on it's own.  Days go by, the pain gets worse, swelling isn't going down at all and my finger begins to curl as if it cannot be straight anymore.  I go back to the doc, another copay.... and he takes x-rays.  Examines them and says he doesn't see anything wrong.... keep the splint, here's some pain killers..... days go by, no change... go back for another copay.... he sends me for MRI's ..... get's MRI's back and charges me another copay to look at them in his office..... he says he doesn't see anything wrong with my finger.

 

So in the end, I paid a bunch of copays, had him b.s. me along, and my finger never got fixed and he never determined anything wrong with it either.  My finger is "fine" today but it has just slightly less range of motion than my other middle finger.  It's unnoticeable really.  My point is, there is/was definitely something broken in my finger and with all the money and expensive equipment and expertise spent looking at it.... nothing could be determined.  What I meant when I compared that to my job (computers).... is that I cannot be wrong about stuff.  It has to work when I'm done and I have to, many times, know EXACTLY what happened, how it happened and be able to explain it.

 

The medical industry isn't advanced enough and people don't understand the human body (or nature in general) well enough to be considered "experts" in my opinion.  Are they more of an expert about it after studying medical field for 4-8 years than I am, sure..... but in terms of you know everything or you know nothing.... they are not experts because they don't know and are not close to knowing everything.  We would solve cancer and AIDS and shit.... and new viruses wouldn't be a thing if we "knew everything."  I say "not a thing" in regards to a new one could pop up and we'd instantly have  fix for it.

 

I think the medical industry is much more focused on the payout of fixing symptoms rather than fixing problems.  It doesn't make money to fix someone permanently and send them on their way.  In contrast it makes a TON of money to get someone on that "service plan" of keep showing up over and over.  That's what happened with my finger story above, the doctor had me showing up over and over as he tried to pin the tail on the donkey unsuccessfully.  To me, it's fuckery.  You don't have a choice though, you have to trust the "professionals" and, yes, they're more equipped to help than anyone else but it's peoples' lives that are at risk.

 

The comparison I make is that everyone, including professionals, are humans that make mistakes.  I'm an "expert" at what I do.... and when I make a mistake someone's computer gets fucked up.  When a medical professional makes a mistake, someone's life gets fucked up.  Think of the gloves that have been "forgotten" inside of people and sewn back up in surgeries, and then the patient comes back complaining of pain..... only to be charged for a 2nd surgery to remove the glove.  That shit is just insane.  It's like the shade tree mechanic shop for people.

 

Disclaimer: I don't hate medical industry, I'm just reluctant to use them or give them my money until I think something is really fucked up.  I realize this is a "stupid" way to be because of things like cancer, but at the same time I don't need to have a medicine cabinet full of pills when I feel fine.  They got my brother on all kinds of shit and my dad on all kinds of shit.  Actually two of my brothers.

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I think the reality is that if you study history, humanity is due for a mass die off. These seems to happen on fairly regular cycles throughout history. Almost as if its natures way of balancing out surges in human population growth, by taking humanity down a couple notices. There's been a lot of scientific study and hypothesis on the subject. Humanity is much larger, while also being much more well traveled, while also being more exploratory and adventurous, meaning they're far more likely to be exposed to stuff for which they haven't built up natural anti bodies or immune defense to. Not necessarily saying this is the one that kills off 25 -33% of the human population, only that science has been predicting that we're essentially past due for such an event. Then again, it seems we're on borrowed time for a lot of other naturally occurring events that affect society / humanity negatively on a global scale. Maybe every generation goes through the fear of that coming to fruition, but it really is hard to now look at the world these days and feel like we're all begging for it.

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4 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

I know this is off topic, but I don't like that many "places of medicine" are called a "practice".  That right there, in the wording, should be an alarm. 

Thats a literal description and not something the medical board hired some agency to come up with as part of a marketing / positioning strategy. Fact is most hospitals are teaching hospitals and even when it comes to sophisticated surgeries there's a strong possibility that an attending physician is using your situation to teach other doctors, med students / interns. That's not even something that is hidden from public view. In fact its the basis of a lot of popular TV series.

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Oh no I get it.... and that's another thing.  In my opinion I don't think marketing has any place in the medical field, period the end.  I hate seeing commercials trying to push people to ask their doctor about something.  If you subscribe to the visit the doctor all the time mentality then your doctor should be well equipped to know who you are, what's available currently, and what to suggest to you.  I hate that the "medical industry" spends money on TV commercials.  Sure, it serves an audience and probably makes money for them too but I don't think the medical industry should be about making money and that's another big gripe I have with it.

 

I feel like there are people that want to be doctors because they want to live in a big house and drive a porsche, not because they love helping people.

 

I know a guy that was a dentist and retired from being a dentist.... he said after doing it for a little while he began to really not like being a dentist but it is what he had devoted his life to doing so he just continued to retirement.  He said the peoples' attitudes really wore him out and made him not enjoy working anymore.  People would frequently say things like "I really hate coming to see you.... but I have to."  Sure it's just one day of shit for that person that doesn't like the dentist or paying for the dentist, but for the dentist he has to hear that multiple times a day. 

 

It's a clear example of people being bad at putting themselves in someone else's shoes.  I'd say the majority of people are terrible at doing this and way too self centered to ever look outside of the little box they live in constantly and have built for themselves.  That must be a very small world.... and I guess it boils down to people not being very good people to others.

 

edit: IMO ignorance isn't a good excuse for saying stupid shit either.... like "I really hate coming to see you dentist man that fixes my teeth."

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@Dirty_habiT
 

It sounds like you went to more of an urgent care clinic or a off site location from a major hospital. Going to a clinic and going to a proper hospital are definitely different things.

 

The desire for riches fuels most career paths, doctors are no different. I assure you, there are plenty who do enjoy helping others and donate their time freely as often as possible. . 
 

I’m most intrigued to hear you mention you do not think the medical industry should be profiting though. I also think you are somewhat combining the pharmaceutical and medical industries. Although they are often hand and hand, there are plenty of doctors who will happily not prescribe you meds and happily not have you ever return or seek further treatment. You can also refuse medical treatment at any time. They can suggest all the MRIs, CT scans, meds, future visits, ect.. you have the right to refuse all of it


Obviously some doctors are better at their jobs than others. Nothing is fool proof, nothing is perfect, but they learn and get better at medical practices as the years go on, this is obvious. Denying this would be nonsense. General medicine physicians have an incredible amount of information they are expected to know by patients. This is why they have specialists. Now, having to see your PCP to get referrals to specialists is a massive pain in the balls and shouldn’t be necessary, but it could also save both you and the specialist time and money. 
 

While typing this and doing a bit of research i found this report, stating between 1992-2014 malpractice suits have dropped over 50% 

 

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2017/03/27/Study-finds-decline-in-medical-malpractice-claims/2361490643252/

 

In terms of surgical malpractice, while it does happen, thousands upon thousands of surgeries happen every single day without incident. Shit goes wrong in surgery, it’s not always negligence. Every single thing in that environment plays a factor. 

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1 hour ago, misteraven said:

Thats a literal description and not something the medical board hired some agency to come up with as part of a marketing / positioning strategy. Fact is most hospitals are teaching hospitals and even when it comes to sophisticated surgeries there's a strong possibility that an attending physician is using your situation to teach other doctors, med students / interns. That's not even something that is hidden from public view. In fact its the basis of a lot of popular TV series.

Sorry for the derail but i figured I’d share one of my most unpleasant and unwillingly memorable moments in my health care history...

 

These hospitals are most definitely here to teach others in the profession. Some years ago i got the gnarliest funkiest rash outbreak on my ball sack grundle area. I was working outside all summer in the heat and it just kept getting worse until it started to look like some homeless dudes gangrene leg and i had enough one day. Queue hospital visit. Fuckin wait around for what seemed like forever once i got brought into the office and when the bitch finally opened the door she was accompanied by not just 1 or 2 interns but like 6, all with notebooks in hand and scrupulous eyes. They didn’t even ask me. The NP basically told me in one fluid motion upon opening the door she had some resident interns shed be sharing the visit with for educational purposes and that was that. Balls came out. Horribly Embarrassing moment occurred. That shit woulda never happened if I wasn’t at the “community health center.” 

Edited by NightmareOnElmStreet
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Some facilities are teaching hospitals, yes, not all. You also have the right to refuse the residents if you are not comfortable. You have the right to refuse care. You can go to a different hospital or go to a witch doctor if you choose. 
 

Sadly, there’s no other way for doctors to get the experience they are going to need than in the field. 
 

Many, many hospitals are understaffed and incredibly underfunded. To put it plainly, they are fucked. If they put 1/5 of the money they put towards the military towards healthcare you would see vast improvements. 

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2 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

@Dirty_habiT
 

It sounds like you went to more of an urgent care clinic or a off site location from a major hospital. Going to a clinic and going to a proper hospital are definitely different things.

 

The desire for riches fuels most career paths, doctors are no different. I assure you, there are plenty who do enjoy helping others and donate their time freely as often as possible. . 
 

I’m most intrigued to hear you mention you do not think the medical industry should be profiting though. I also think you are somewhat combining the pharmaceutical and medical industries. Although they are often hand and hand, there are plenty of doctors who will happily not prescribe you meds and happily not have you ever return or seek further treatment. You can also refuse medical treatment at any time. They can suggest all the MRIs, CT scans, meds, future visits, ect.. you have the right to refuse all of it


Obviously some doctors are better at their jobs than others. Nothing is fool proof, nothing is perfect, but they learn and get better at medical practices as the years go on, this is obvious. Denying this would be nonsense. General medicine physicians have an incredible amount of information they are expected to know by patients. This is why they have specialists. Now, having to see your PCP to get referrals to specialists is a massive pain in the balls and shouldn’t be necessary, but it could also save both you and the specialist time and money. 
 

While typing this and doing a bit of research i found this report, stating between 1992-2014 malpractice suits have dropped over 50% 

 

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2017/03/27/Study-finds-decline-in-medical-malpractice-claims/2361490643252/

 

In terms of surgical malpractice, while it does happen, thousands upon thousands of surgeries happen every single day without incident. Shit goes wrong in surgery, it’s not always negligence. Every single thing in that environment plays a factor. 

The "clinic" I went to was my "normal doctor" that I visited regularly.  I fired him after the finger incident and after he continued to want to up the dose of adderalls he had prescribed me when I told him they didn't seem to be fixing the problem.  I feel much better to this day and no longer have the issue I initially was describing to the doctor that made him prescribe me a highly addictive drug like adderall.  I know a lot of people would be thinking fuckin sweet, but you don't want to be twacked out on pharmaceutical meth.... because that's exactly what that shit is.

 

So.... for instance..... once your MRI machine is paid for, stop charging that full/high price for an MRI.  It's like toll roads that remain toll roads indefinitely long after they're paid off, or when they raise the price on a toll road, like the recently did here in Austin w/ Mopac going from 30 cents to 35 cents minimum cost.  Every hospital has equipment that they use every day that fits under this category of being "paid for" yet they still charge as if they're trying to pay their bills.  Yes, the pharma industry is slimey as fuck but so is the medical tech industry.

 

Recently when I got stitches, there was a line item for a metal tool tray they used and likely discarded afterwards.... 75 dollars.  75 fucking dollars for a little metal tray, and I do mean little.  You could get more metal tray by flattening out a 12oz drink can than this thing was..... $75.  There's nothing anyone can tell me, I don't care about surgical steel, sterilization, or any of that shit..... absolutely no excuse for stuff to cost that much and be billed to my insurance at that cost.  It's absolutely ludicrous.

 

The problem with the doctors that aren't good and have no desire to be good at what they're doing (because it all pays well).... is that there is no way, as a "medical consumer", to know the difference between fucko doctor and one that is actually good and cares about their patients.

 

I understand exactly where you're coming from and I don't blame you for feeling/thinking the way you do.  I'm going to be a stubborn asshole about this forever I'm sure.  I don't trust people in general to do anything other than what they've always done.

 

I fired one doctor because she was obviously full of plastic surgery.  Tried to knock 15 years off her age and had big ol' round titties.... I said this shit ain't for me, you're stupid with your money and your personal decisions so I don't want you being stupid with my money and my decisions.  Thanks but no thanks.  And, this was another "regular doctor" that I didn't see for very long.... she also was trying to quickly get me into a situation where she could examine my junk, which again.... most people would be like "oh hell yeah fuckin sweet, go away baitin...."  But to me, it was her pressuring me into something that I wasn't there for.... again, like a shitty car mechanic that wants money and that recurring "service agreement."

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1 hour ago, abrasivesaint said:

Some facilities are teaching hospitals, yes, not all. You also have the right to refuse the residents if you are not comfortable. You have the right to refuse care. You can go to a different hospital or go to a witch doctor if you choose. 
 

Sadly, there’s no other way for doctors to get the experience they are going to need than in the field. 
 

Many, many hospitals are understaffed and incredibly underfunded. To put it plainly, they are fucked. If they put 1/5 of the money they put towards the military towards healthcare you would see vast improvements. 

"Under funded" doesn't fall well on my ears when I know the technology and materials they use do not cost ANYWHERE near close to what they're charged for it.

 

edit: and anyway before this turns into a shit flinging fest of "doctors good vs. doctors bad" i'm going to bow out and agree to disagree.  Nobody's going to change my mind on this.  My experiences have led me to feel the way I do about it and nothing made up of words that someone else tells me is going to make me feel any different about my past experiences.

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5 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

The "clinic" I went to was my "normal doctor" that I visited regularly.  I fired him after the finger incident and after he continued to want to up the dose of adderalls he had prescribed me when I told him they didn't seem to be fixing the problem.  I feel much better to this day and no longer have the issue I initially was describing to the doctor that made him prescribe me a highly addictive drug like adderall.  I know a lot of people would be thinking fuckin sweet, but you don't want to be twacked out on pharmaceutical meth.... because that's exactly what that shit is.

If a doctor you went to prescribed adderrall after getting stitches the doctor is a straight fucking loon and should probably be reported. 

 

Quote

Recently when I got stitches, there was a line item for a metal tool tray they used and likely discarded afterwards.... 75 dollars.  75 fucking dollars for a little metal tray, and I do mean little.  You could get more metal tray by flattening out a 12oz drink can than this thing was..... $75.  There's nothing anyone can tell me, I don't care about surgical steel, sterilization, or any of that shit..... absolutely no excuse for stuff to cost that much and be billed to my insurance at that cost.  It's absolutely ludicrous.

That little tray is called a mayo tray. If it were blue-ish plastic it gets discarded. If it’s metal, it costs hundreds to reprocess, restock, and re-sterilize that tray. 
 

Quote

 

The problem with the doctors that aren't good and have no desire to be good at what they're doing (because it all pays well).... is that there is no way, as a "medical consumer", to know the difference between fucko doctor and one that is actually good and cares about their patients.

 

I understand exactly where you're coming from and I don't blame you for feeling/thinking the way you do.  I'm going to be a stubborn asshole about this forever I'm sure.  I don't trust people in general to do anything other than what they've always done.

 

I fired one doctor because she was obviously full of plastic surgery.  Tried to knock 15 years off her age and had big ol' round titties.... I said this shit ain't for me, you're stupid with your money and your personal decisions so I don't want you being stupid with my money and my decisions.  Thanks but no thanks.  And, this was another "regular doctor" that I didn't see for very long.... she also was trying to quickly get me into a situation where she could examine my junk, which again.... most people would be like "oh hell yeah fuckin sweet, go away baitin...."  But to me, it was her pressuring me into something that I wasn't there for.... again, like a shitty car mechanic that wants money and that recurring "service agreement."

Except you can file reports against these doctors. People 100% lose their jobs and get lawsuits slapped against them, that’s why many of them have malpractice insurance. 

 

5 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said:

"Under funded" doesn't fall well on my ears when I know the technology and materials they use do not cost ANYWHERE near close to what they're charged for it.

You do not know this. I can tell you from first hand experience that sometimes that itty bitty little screw that might go into a broken bone can cost hundreds upon hundreds of dollars for the screw alone. I have watched people panic and search on their hands and knees for hours for a dozen screws the size of a crumbs that they dropped because it cost $700 a screw. 
 

A mid size surgical tray is worth hundreds to thousands of dollars and costs hundreds to re-sterilize that 1 tray every day. The metal needs to be surgical grade steel and be able to handle reprocessing. These temperatures of hot water reach 190 degrees and steam at 270 degrees, generally speaking, over and over and over. 1 scope that a doctor sticks up your ass costs thousands, and is incredibly easy to damage and destroy because of the micro fibers used for the cameras. I’ve watched someone destroy a scope that cost 45k. 

 

Quote

edit: and anyway before this turns into a shit flinging fest of "doctors good vs. doctors bad" i'm going to bow out and agree to disagree.  Nobody's going to change my mind on this.  My experiences have led me to feel the way I do about it and nothing made up of words that someone else tells me is going to make me feel any different about my past experiences.

I’m not slinging shit, and i’m not saying your experiences aren't validating your opinion. You clearly have had some shitty ones at a facility that sounds like it might need a visit from JCO. Have at em.. 
 

https://www.jointcommission.org/en/resources/patient-safety-topics/report-a-patient-safety-event/

 

Medical costs are absolutely uncanny, i’m not taking that away from anyone or anything, but like most things, that trickles down from the very top. Here’s some examples of the most basic clamps found in surgical trays. They can range from $5 a clamp, to hundreds, depending on the make and model of the clamp. There are anywhere from 1-25 of each clamp in one surgical set. Clamps are the most basic surgical instruments. Every hospital has hundreds to thousands of sets.. 

 

 

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China probably fucked up, this may be an outbreak of a weaponized virus.

The epicenter of the outbreak is less than 10 miles from China's only known level 4 biosafety lab. Basically their version of Ft. Dietrich MD. 

 

image.png.cdd0ca9807abb772aa25f9a5552a34a5.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also this video is floating around, but not confirmed by anyone credible yet, so it's questionable.

But the person is claiming that over 90,000 are infected

 

 

Rough Translation:

 

Quote

Dear friends, elders, I am ○○ I ’m still in the epidemic area of Hankou, Wuhan, and I ’d like to report to you the current epidemic situation in Hubei and even the whole country. There are now more than 90,000 person-times (Note: Infected person-times?) What is the chance of this virus being transmitted? After a person is infected, if he is not effectively isolated, Or if effective treatment is performed, he will infect 14 people around him, so this level is very large. Now it ’s the time of the Chinese New Year family and friends, relatives, children, and children are all going to the house to reunite the family together for a reunion dinner The situation is special now. I hope you do n’t go out. Every year in the Spring Festival, as long as people are safe, everyone can be together anytime, anywhere Let me introduce you to the situation of medical supplies in Hubei Province At present, the entire medical system in Wuhan, which integrates the entire medical system in Hubei Province, has passed through our superiors. The health and health committee (Note: these three words are uncertain) And various administrative departments The municipal government and the provincial government are initiating donations to the society through major media. This material is medical material. For example, the goggles I wear Wear disposable masks, wear disposable gloves, wear this gown, or even isolation pants. This material is extremely accurate. Our current medical staff must come back to the front line when they come down from the clinic. I am now equivalent to recording this video with everyone on the FireWire, in order to make everyone accurate. I stress again that during the Spring Festival holiday, do n’t go out and stay in your own house, otherwise I ’m desperately ahead Not just to keep my dad, my loved ones, healthy I hope everyone can understand, I also know that some relatives are not in the group, please see the news of me, call each other and inform It must be done. I hope everyone can raise awareness. This is a political task. And I ’m reporting very bad news. This new type of coronavirus has undergone the second generation mutation In other words, in the first generation of mutation, we can treat it symptomatically. Then when the second-generation mutation occurs, this is terrible, and its chance of infection is not one person to one person, one person has the disease and infects 14 people around him. Then it is pour burst (note: these five characters are uncertain) I hope everyone remembers, do n’t go out, do n’t go out, do n’t meet, do n’t have dinner thank you all

 

Edited by Mercer

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@abrasivesaint- I understand that you're in the medical industry and this hits home for you.... the doctor didn't prescribe adderall for stitches, you're getting mixed up and can be forgive for that.  I'm not going to debate your confusion about what I said.

 

Still.... there is nothing about any screw made of any material with any process or cleaning/sterilizing that "costs $700".  That is the rip off of the medical industry.  There is nothing "more precision" about any of that shit that costs that much more than any other screw.  The cost is in the materials, the machining, and the sterilization.... even then, bringing steel to 190 degrees doesn't cost that kind of money.  I know how technology works REALLY well both from a computer aspect and from a mechanical/electrical engineering aspect and there's not a fucking thing in the medical industry that warrants a screw actually costing that much to produce.

 

Does the hospital get charged that much for the screw?  Sure..... and there in lies the problem.

 

I thought I said nothing is going to change my mind already.... I'm going to stand on that still.  I appreciate your effort but it's not enough.

 

edit: thank you for doing what you do.  I'm still not changing my mind.

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This isn’t the “dhabz is right about everything and the conversation is over when he says hes done” hour. I’ll speak when i feel like it. If you chose to disengage then go for it. 
 

I have no investment in this, i agree the system is fucked. My feelings aren't hurt because you hate the medical industry, fuck em. I’m telling you simply what is charged to operate and reprocess this shit on a day to day basis. 

 

I understand that screw doesnt cost $700 to make, i am also a capable machinist. I know what stock and production costs vs retail prices are, but that is everything in life. If you have a problem with the cost take it up with Capitalism and the free markets bruh

 

For the record, i do see that i misread about the adderall. 

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