Pass the Corona ese... Novel Corona aka COVID-19

[CALIgula]

Just to document the crazies ...so when anyone revisits this thread years from now, they can witness the climate not even two months into the shelter in place:

 

 

[Hua Guofang]

@misteravenHave you looked over the response schedule from the President (which also means the federal govt) to the outbreak? He was receiving repeated warning from his own staff, from intel agencies and other Republicans that this was a serious virus and that it would also hit the economy if not well controlled. But he continued to play it down, make public statements that there was nothing to worry about, warm weather will kill it, it will disappear like magic etc etc. HE tweeted this stuff and said it in his briefings. You don't think that has an impact on the millions upon millions of people that read/watch that? You don't think that even in his public pronouncements - let alone actual measures - if he'd taken it seriously from the start that it would have framed a very different national response?

 

When Trump banned people coming from China, it was only Chinese travelers coming to the US. US citizens coming from China could enter the country without being tested or undergoing mandatory 14 days quarantine. He also didn't ban travel from Europe until it was way too late. This was a major fuck up for obvious reasons. Anyone coming from infected countries should have undergone 14 days quarantine and monitored during that time. He basically left the door open for multiple cities across the countries to get infected and that's exactly what happened. The states should never have been put in that position to start with, they've been playing catch up ever since because the federal response was late and undercooked.

 

Sure, states bare as much responsibility as they should, I've never disputed that. But, the federal govt controls the agencies set up to deal with these issues, they control the strategic stockpile, they control the large orgs in place to respond to national disasters - none of that is available to the states.

 

Trump defunded large amounts of the CDC, He also disbanded the units in the NSC and DHS that you refer to. They don't exist anymore, those people aren't there to blame.

 

Face masks are not a big thing in Japan or Korea, more so China and Taiwan - and even then, it's like 5-10% of the population that wear them and they are pretty much confined to tier 1/2 cities, not the bulk of the country. Sorry, stand offish society doesn't work; they still cough, sneeze and in some ways are more unhygienic than Western countries. Not hugging so much or not high-fiving doesn't mean squat. They still live in high-density cities, eat at restaurants and congregate in workplaces.

 

You might want to read more about Chinese numbers, few people (that matter) truly accept them and I didn't include China in the list of comparable countries for that precise reason. India went to full lockdown early, something the US didn't do until far too late. (cities, federal, whatever) They are also strictly enforcing social distancing.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Hua Guofang

[Hua Guofang]

Oh my fucking lord.

 

I'd link to the original Xinhua clip they're parodying/responding to but I don't assist in spreading communist propaganda

 

Just watch it

 

 

[Hua Guofang]

@misteraven- just to clarify my above comments, I don't know what the states are and are not responsible for in regards to the extent of the outbreak. I fully agree that they are to be held responsible for what they can influence and that each location will require a response tailored to their unique experience. All that is common sense.

 

My point is that there was a lot the federal govt could have done, to protect the states from the get-go, which they did not do and the result is more dead than could have been and a harder job for the states to try and contain/respond. Lastly, the Federal Govt has a lot more specific resources in place (well, did until disbanded and defunded) to manage issues of national concern, such as epidemics/pandemics.

 

 

PS - not everyone in CDC works on pandemics/viruses, that's only a section of the organisation and it is very, very far from the thousands of people you think it is.

[Schnitzel]

compare the results between korea and the USA the difference is pretty nuts

 

both recorded first cases january 20

Korean deaths 250

American deaths  above 61,000 and counting.

 

You cannot argue this isn't a fuck up of monumental proportions. 

 

and the gurning buffoon in the hot seat isn't helping.

 

Armed protesters are trying to enter state legislative chamber in the  capitol building in Michigan.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Schnitzel

[6Pennies]

Just now, Schnitzel said:

compare the results between korea and the USA the difference is pretty nuts

 

both recorded first cases january 20

Korean deaths 250

American deaths  above 61,000 and counting.

 

You cannot argue this isn't a fuck up of monumental proportions. 

 

and the gurning buffoon in the hot seat isn't helping.

 

Armed protesters are trying to enter state legislature capitol building in Michigan.

 

 

Dude rolled with his FN FS2000!

and, dad jeans!

 

[Schnitzel]

fucking Covid19 

[pissdrunkwhat?!]

Man this shit has me really on edge with friends and I want yall to know I was already against this economy. This is that zombie fan shit years ago I was laughing at sitting on guns and gauze.

 

Stay the fuck home. You're mad? Go look at the stock markets highest gains since '87.

 

Either you're moving around funds right now advantageously or you're broke.

 

This is the economic divide they use under other guises laid bare. See it or dont. 

 

EAT THE RICH, POWER FROM THE PEOPLE!

Edited May 1, 2020 by pissdrunkwhat?!

[Hua Guofang]

7 hours ago, Schnitzel said:

 

 

The American Taliban.

[Hua Guofang]

 

 

[Kalashnikov]

It's not too hard to see what's happening. To quote what's his name... Ed Norris, from The Wire.

 

Americans are by and large a stupid people.

 

People see that they've been in lockdown for about a month and a half, depending on where you live. The numbers are steady. We're not showing any sign of rapid decline, but some places are steady enough, hospitalizations in major cities and outbreak centers like NYC and New Orleans are "leveling off." They also see, that they, and nobody they know have gotten sick. So what's the typical moron reaction? "We must be being way too strict about this lockdown crap!"

 

People, as a whole, lack the ability to look at things objectively or from a "forest instead of the trees" perspective. They only care about what they can see, or what directly affects them at that point in time. I'm not sick... nobody I know is sick... this is bullshit, let's get back to normal. They can't put two and two together that the reason things are starting to level off is because we have been in lockdown for 6 weeks. There's still plenty of people getting sick, we have about 25-30k, sometimes more, new cases a day in the United States. There's still a lot of spread. Not to mention, it can 2 weeks to get symptoms.

 

I understand that people are going broke, they've lost their jobs and they need to get back to work. I understand that the unemployment system is overloaded. But we just need to pull through. Because what happens if we open everything back up right now when we're just starting to see results from our actions? The spread increases, and we go right back to square one. The restaurant you were a waiter at brings you back in, you work for 3 weeks, and then everything has to go back to lockdown status because, surprise, there's a huge surge in cases.

 

Waiting this out right now will cost less for individuals and the healthcare system, both in monetary terms and in terms of life, in the long run. We need to get back to a containable level, like New Zealand has. Of course this is much  more difficult for us than it is for New Zealand considering they have 5 million people and we have 330 million, but either way, it's what has to be done. We can't jump the gun on this, as tempting as it might be for some.

 

I'm dreaming of the day I'll be able to walk around the city again, walk into random establishments and just do what I want. Dreaming of being able to have friends over, go to parties, and just be myself. I'm dreaming of being able to go back to NYC and enjoy the city. But we need to wait.

[KILZ FILLZ]

10 hours ago, CALIgula said:

Just to document the crazies ...so when anyone revisits this thread years from now, they can witness the climate not even two months into the shelter in place:

 

 

 

[misteraven]

14 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

@misteraven- just to clarify my above comments, I don't know what the states are and are not responsible for in regards to the extent of the outbreak. I fully agree that they are to be held responsible for what they can influence and that each location will require a response tailored to their unique experience. All that is common sense.

 

My point is that there was a lot the federal govt could have done, to protect the states from the get-go, which they did not do and the result is more dead than could have been and a harder job for the states to try and contain/respond. Lastly, the Federal Govt has a lot more specific resources in place (well, did until disbanded and defunded) to manage issues of national concern, such as epidemics/pandemics.

 

 

PS - not everyone in CDC works on pandemics/viruses, that's only a section of the organisation and it is very, very far from the thousands of people you think it is.

When Trump shutdown travel between the USA and China, he got bashed relentlessly by the MSM. That was the probably the single most effective thing that could have been done early on. There was some talk about shutting down domestic travel, but again, tuned into a shit show really fast (though I'm still surprised it never happened). What, in your opinion, would have made a difference that was not done? There's been a lot of talk in regards to testing and though I would agree that there was plenty of time to develop an effective test and roll out at least enough testing for first responders and medical staff, my criticism of Trump would be that those at the CDC and other organizations that are specifically tasked and funded for that should have been dismissed and subject to inquiry.

 

Reality is it was the WHO and the CDC with the full cooperation of the MSM that were persistent for weeks that masks made no difference and that they could actually be harmful. If anyone should be held to account, its them.

 

Localities were still proceeding with major events well into this situation. It's not the presidents job to tell individual cities how to govern the specifics of their localities.

 

Seeing as how there are well over 2 million employees in the Federal Government and exponentially more subcontracted by them, what gives you the confidence that an extra couple hundred (or couple thousand for that matter) would have made any difference? Seeing as how we now have the benefit of hindsight and there is nothing really radically different happening now in response as there was a month ago, why would yet another layer of bureaucracy have made an inkling of difference when its so clear how incompetent and inefficient it all already is? As an exercise, lets not talk about what was, but what actually is... What could be done differently moving forward, since we can now take into consideration what has happened?

 

Not for nothing, and ass hat that Trump is, blaming Trump for the mess that NYC is would be like blaming the EU for the mess that Italy was. A very round about way of addressing a shitty situation that really doesn't address much if the goal is to actually fix things.

[CALIgula]

14 hours ago, Schnitzel said:

 

 

Interesting that when the black Panthers marched into the California state capital back in the 60s they got arrested for conspiracy to disrupt legislature. 

 

But now when angry white people do it, no arrests🤔🤔

[CALIgula]

Live stream at California capital right now...

 

 

 

AKA Branch Covidiots

[misteraven]

19 minutes ago, CALIgula said:

Live stream at California capital right now...

 

 

 

AKA Branch Covidiots

Whats most interesting to me is that California is lockdown, presumably due to safety concerns, yet the huge majority of the cops (which obviously are there to enforce things) aren't even wearing masks at an event that they know will be tons of people packed together. Not for nothing, but at best this is just a mixed message and bad look, perhaps more proof of incompetence. At worst its evidence that it really isn't about public safety at all.

 

Just sayin'.

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

CDC updated their reporting for covid deaths today. They are now separating pneumonia and flu from covid deaths. Looks like covid-19 death toll for US is now ~35k. Wasn’t it like ~60k yesterday??

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/

 

 

 

[Kults]

10 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

CDC updated their reporting for covid deaths today. They are now separating pneumonia and flu from covid deaths. Looks like covid-19 death toll for US is now ~35k. Wasn’t it like ~60k yesterday??

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/

 

 

 

shocker 🙄

 

e: 35k is a lot of people but i still wonder how much context is missing from that number 

[Schnitzel]

yeah they'll start removing other factors

 

people over 65 removed from the total. because theyw ere going to die anyway

 

 then come november it's going to be "only 2,000 people died from Covid 19 thanks to the trump administration"

[KILZ FILLZ]

Metrics are a mofo

[CALIgula]

4 hours ago, misteraven said:

Whats most interesting to me is that California is lockdown, presumably due to safety concerns, yet the huge majority of the cops (which obviously are there to enforce things) aren't even wearing masks at an event that they know will be tons of people packed together. Not for nothing, but at best this is just a mixed message and bad look, perhaps more proof of incompetence. At worst its evidence that it really isn't about public safety at all.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Not an "event" per se.

The CHP is in charge of issuing permits for protests and providing security. While they probably should've distributed gas masks like the ones they wore during the"white nationalist" riots maybe the lack of being prepared had to do with this not being a permitted event but more of an impromptu "mayday" event. Last weeks protests had permits, but after that, they temporarily stopped issuing permits for public safety concerns. You can still protest... around the Capital grounds... you just can't protest on the grounds. Most of those CHP officers live in the Sacramento and surrounding counties... the fucktard protestors are mostly coming in from other counties (especially those "state of Jefferson" fucks from up north) potentially infecting the CHP and their families and MY community.... and potentially infecting others if they take it back to their communities.... it's more of a trump rally and extremely politicized more than about getting the economy going again. 

[CALIgula]

Funny thing is you usually hear these people say shit like "get a job!" and "cut your hair, hippie!" to liberal protestors. 

 

I wonder how they'd feel if someone shouted the same shit back to them right now. 

[Hua Guofang]

7 hours ago, misteraven said:

When Trump shutdown travel between the USA and China, he got bashed relentlessly by the MSM. That was the probably the single most effective thing that could have been done early on. There was some talk about shutting down domestic travel, but again, tuned into a shit show really fast (though I'm still surprised it never happened). What, in your opinion, would have made a difference that was not done? There's been a lot of talk in regards to testing and though I would agree that there was plenty of time to develop an effective test and roll out at least enough testing for first responders and medical staff, my criticism of Trump would be that those at the CDC and other organizations that are specifically tasked and funded for that should have been dismissed and subject to inquiry.

 

Reality is it was the WHO and the CDC with the full cooperation of the MSM that were persistent for weeks that masks made no difference and that they could actually be harmful. If anyone should be held to account, its them.

 

Localities were still proceeding with major events well into this situation. It's not the presidents job to tell individual cities how to govern the specifics of their localities.

 

Seeing as how there are well over 2 million employees in the Federal Government and exponentially more subcontracted by them, what gives you the confidence that an extra couple hundred (or couple thousand for that matter) would have made any difference? Seeing as how we now have the benefit of hindsight and there is nothing really radically different happening now in response as there was a month ago, why would yet another layer of bureaucracy have made an inkling of difference when its so clear how incompetent and inefficient it all already is? As an exercise, lets not talk about what was, but what actually is... What could be done differently moving forward, since we can now take into consideration what has happened?

 

Not for nothing, and ass hat that Trump is, blaming Trump for the mess that NYC is would be like blaming the EU for the mess that Italy was. A very round about way of addressing a shitty situation that really doesn't address much if the goal is to actually fix things.

MAte, I don't mean to sound like a prick, but there is so much in here that is just wildly wrong.

 

 

Trump shut down travel between China - No he did not, Check the facts. I already described how he only shut down entry by Chinese nationals. He didn't say that Americans returning from China had to be tested and put in quarantine for 14 days. So all those Americans coming back from ground zero just walked on in, no different than a Chinese national would have, and infected people within the US.

 

Trump was bashed by the Media - so what? Is his job to lead the country or to chase headlines? Every president gets bashed by the media and the opposition, it's completely irrelevant to him carrying out his job to protect the lives of US citizens.

 

The most effective thing that could have been done early on - I'm sorry, but this is where I just start to shake my head. Read my first response, people who had very high chance of being infected were still waltzing into the country without testing or quarantine. The shutdown for people from Europe was way too late, etc. etc.

 

CDC and other folk should be dismissed, etc. - See, this is where it becomes a waste of time writing these posts because you just ignore what's been said. Trump disbanded the orgs in the NSC and DHS that were specifically set up to respond to pandemic threat. He defunded the CDC by a significant chunk. Trump also did NOT follow the guidance he was given by the CDC. Why is that their fault?

 

Masks, CDC, WHO, MSM and what should have happened - The mask issue is a huge red herring. You wear masks only when the initial response has failed to reduce widescale infection and community transmission has taken hold. Shutting down us much international travel as possible AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE, testing and quarantining everyone who comes into the country, mass testing and contact tracing right at the very start, closing down the cities where there are communal transmissions, ban large gatherings, close churches, movie cinemas, etc., large-scale roll out of science led information campaigns about social distancing, hygiene, etc. etc. These are the things that should have been done right away, that were not. The mask issue is meaningless when held against these measures.

 

De Blasio fucked  New York by responding too slowly, Seattle is a success case as it responded quickly, shut things down and followed the CDC playbook. Trump did the opposite of what he needed to do at the national level. The seriousness of the outbreak was played down by Trump for a month, there was no funding sorted out for the response until way too late to ramp up on testing, tracing, rolling out PPE where needed, info campaigns, etc. He even held large fucking rallies to try and show that he wasn't concerned about the virus, FFS!! And he didn't shut down international travel until way too late and when he did, he did so in a way that was completely ineffective. His roll was preparing the nation as best as possible for a pandemic, when it occurred he needed to act to stop the virus getting into the country as much as he could and then he needed to support the states to deal with things at the local level - all this needs to happen first, it's the immediate response and everything that happens at the local level happens second in the sequence of events. Trump did none of this. Seriously, Trump actively encouraged travel at the start of the outbreak, he actively made things worse.

 

Localities and the President - sure, carrying out large scale events was stupid, as mentioned, there are great comparrisons between NYC and Seattle, which show the difference between a successful and failed immediate response at the local level.

 

2 million emplyees in the govt, what, you think they're all virologists and emergency management people? What do people in the govt working on finance/education/infrastructure/etc have to do with responding to a pandemic?! Your comments about bureaucracy really make no sense. It's like It's like blaming the finance dept at Nike for the factories using the wrong glue on the soles of the shoes.

 

I'm going to stop at the part where you compare the US to the EU. The US is a single nation, the EU us a number of nations under a regional agreement for somethings. I can't believe that you compare the two like they are the same. You either think you know more than you do or you are being deliberately disingenuous.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to do anymore long discussions about this as I'm already repeating myself and it's better if I just link to the investigations, inquiries and studies that will be carried out over the coming months that I will bet my magical third testicle on that say the federal response was completely fucking botched, as were a number of local responses, including NYC.

 

[Hua Guofang]

5 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

CDC updated their reporting for covid deaths today. They are now separating pneumonia and flu from covid deaths. Looks like covid-19 death toll for US is now ~35k. Wasn’t it like ~60k yesterday??

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Kults said:

shocker 🙄

 

e: 35k is a lot of people but i still wonder how much context is missing from that number 

Yeah, it's a bit confusing as they're using the code U07.1 for CV19 deaths but there are two columns with that code, which added together are around 55,000.

 

I'm not sure if the J12.0 /J18.9/U07.1 column is part of what makes up the U07.1 or if they are calculated separately.

 

Also, my understanding was that it's not actually the CV19 that kills you, it's the pneumonia or something else, similar to the way AIDS worked. I could be totally off on that, though.

[abrasivesaint]

10 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

CDC updated their reporting for covid deaths today. They are now separating pneumonia and flu from covid deaths. Looks like covid-19 death toll for US is now ~35k. Wasn’t it like ~60k yesterday??

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/

 

 

 

Didn’t someone on Rogan’s podcast also mention that they were counting deaths from heart attacks and such as COVID deaths if the patient had the virus?  
 

I mean if they have these medical issues and the virus pushes then over the edge it should be treated in the same manner that HIV/AIDS related deaths are diagnosed, whatever that is because i honestly don’t know, haha. 
 

Would the cause of death be “AIDS,” or like “AIDS related complications?”

[abrasivesaint]

5 hours ago, Hua Guofang said:

Also, my understanding was that it's not actually the CV19 that kills you, it's the pneumonia or something else, similar to the way AIDS worked. I could be totally off on that, though.

From what i’ve understood this is exactly the case. It’s why i’ve been trying to make the pneumonia comparisons for weeks in this thread and in my real life instead of the flu comparison that is commonly spoken about. When they were still reporting death by death cases and not larger numbers almost every one sounded like pneumonia. Which kinda calms the panic in a lot of people because we don’t go worrying about pneumonia in or day to day lives. 

[Hua Guofang]

I'm sure y'all have seen them but there are studies that look at the recorded deaths for cities/countries, removes the CV19 deaths and finds that there are pretty huge increases in deaths over expected averages. There's a possibility that the numbers of fatalities might actually rise in time to come.

 

It all just goes to the point that this is a novel virus and that there is still a lot of unkowns.

[Hua Guofang]

 

[abrasivesaint]

He actually kinda sounded like Death from Family Guy. 

[Kults]

*worries about the virus

* wants people inside 

 

* puts on grim reaper dollar store costume and goes to the beach