Tonight’s debate.

[Kults]

16 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

Exhausting. I’m not a fan of either, to be honest. 

The way trump carried himself was insulting and childish. I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone can support that type of behavior from a president. 
 

November will most likely be something our country has never seen before. 
 

Just at a loss for words. 

True he’s a brute. However the most childish thing out of all that was Biden losing his cool and letting his temper get the best of him over something so benign. You want that dude having the launch codes? One of them just threatens to do it, the other one probably would. 

[Dark_Knight]

Respectfully disagree 

[6Pennies]

3 hours ago, misteraven said:

We'll have to wait and see but I doubt it. Hillary was at least qualified even if you didn't buy into her position or trust her motives. Suppose you could argue Biden should be qualified after 50+ years in senior political positions, but it's pretty obvious he has major issues and that it's probably likely, if not probable, that casting a vote for him is actually putting Kamala Harris in control. Even if Biden is breathing at the end of his term, its pretty clear whats left of his mental faculty will never survive the rigors and stress of that job for very long.

 

I don't disagree that a lof of the younger people that rallied for Bernie will throw in with Biden, but it won't be enough to make a difference. Biden has no chance, and thats not because I like Trump. Unseating an incumbent is an uphill battle to begin with, but Biden just has too much working against him. He's too old, too much a part of the establishment (that even the left is starting to turn against) and is a train wreck every time he opens his mouth. They've literally thrown the kitchen sink at Trump since jump street and dude is still swinging. I think the play is that they're hoping to get Biden to the finish line, will muddy the waters to contest the close win Trump will achieve and instead hope to win back the Senate, which I also believe is unlikely. 

 

I believe with how bad the world is right now most of those undecided people will begrudgingly vote Trump. We'll have to wait and see, but I think most of us will agree that regardless who wins, just over half the nation will be ready to burn the country down and that they've managed to whip people up into such a frenzy that I doubt it can be kept from exploding for very much longer. Crazy how "civil war" is being discussed as a credible outcome by pretty mainstream voices. No idea what that could look like in this day and age or how many people truly have the guts to go that path, but I think its obvious this train is going over the cliff no matter who wins. Shit is spiraling towards a crash and burn unlike anything this country has seen. I think the real conversation is who's orchestrating it, because it isn't the two clowns that were debating last night.

Allen,  I don't know about this one re: Trump still winning.  Although it is within the realm of possibility as the last election exemplified the Dem's weakness for "confirmation bubbles".  And, I also believe in the silent/invisible Trump voter too,  but last night... and his Proud Boy comment, may have been the death knell.

 

I think the talk of Civil War is just fear and fantasy on both sides.  Our surveillance state would squash it before it really got off the ground, and most of suburbia would applaud.  Although, I predict some isolated skirmishes and probably a very nasty event or two.  Moreso than Civil War, we have passed the threshold into a neo-Dark Age.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by 6Pennies
grammar

[where]

That whole words and numbers thing. It’s the combination of the 2, hundred, half a billion, I mean 2.

[Dark_Knight]

Fun fact: the founder of the proud boys co founded Vice.

 

[Kults]

50 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Respectfully disagree 

I could very well be completely wrong. what do I know? 

[Dark_Knight]

43 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Fun fact: the founder of the proud boys co founded Vice.

 

White supremacy is the final form of hipster elitism

[Dark_Knight]

51 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dark_Knight
DOUBLE POST

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, misteraven said:

casting a vote for him is actually putting Kamala Harris in control.

like Bush Cheney, he's not with it enough to be on top of shit kind of like Bush was. I mean this dude has to rest every other day during a presidential campaign. Imagine a pressing matter like war etc. Even if he doesn't die, he's clearly not capable of fulfilling the duties fully. Most people aren't saying this yet but Kamal is not to be slept on. How she got Tulsi canceled after calling her out, called Biden a racist, and still ended up his VP demonstrates tremendous political clout.  

 

This is scary as fuck. She's spent her entire life locking people up, and has no idea where the line between what the government should, and should not have the power to decide is. She probably knows what's legal, but also knows all about exploiting loopholes etc. to get the agenda through. I think much like Pence, She's a much worse alternative if Biden dies, which from the looks of it isn't too far off. 

[6Pennies]

44 minutes ago, Mercer said:

....called Biden a racist, and still ended up his VP demonstrates tremendous political clout.  

 

This is scary as fuck....

Said the same thing when she was nominated....

[mr.yuck]

3 hours ago, where said:

That whole words and numbers thing. It’s the combination of the 2, hundred, half a billion, I mean 2.

But how many of the dead survived, man?

[where]

12 minutes ago, mr.yuck said:

But how many of the dead survived, man?

not on my watch

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

Hooooollllyyyy shit. I have never been so straight up paranoid and scared of what is to come. The suspense and uncertainty of it all is equivalent to just about any quality horror movie.

You know those moments when someone just watched someone else they know and love get butchered while they crouched behind a chair and made a sound on accident.......That is how any normal citizen of this country (Americant) who still has a few fucks to give, should feel. On some real shit. Since we're back to the whole 2 old white guy nominees thing I really gotta wonder what the vibes are in retirement homes. What are the OG's who have never in their entire lives seen what we saw last night thinking? I dont have old people in my family but I wish I did. We are looking at some real live ground level trouble come November, no matter who wins. Even if we wont know for months anyways. 

[Dark_Knight]

 

[mr.yuck]

My favorite part of last night and every other night is how hard and ruthlessly Melania curves DJ DonDon.

[Mercer]

My favorite part was "don't ever use the word smart with me" like Biden was a groveling cook and Trump was chef Ramsey.

[~KRYLON2~]

I decided to go fishing instead of watching the debate last night. Judging from all the gossip this morning at work, the whole debate sounded like I didn't miss much.

[Schnitzel]

America you kind of look like you need to have compulsory voting for a couple of terms.

 

Force  the remaining 120 million (unsure of total voter numbers so just guessed)  of you to vote and you might get a selection of more likeable or suitable candidates trying to win the votes of more people and maybe leading to better outcomes.

 

At  the very least you might have a more informed electorate making voting decisions based on policy not tribal differences.

 

just a thought...

 

1 hour ago, NightmareOnElmStreet said:

We are looking at some real live ground level trouble come November, no matter who wins. Even if we wont know for months anyways. 

Trump gonna mobilise the good ol' boys to come out on election day fully tooled up and they'll hang around polling stations making a show of force.

Which will put off more moderate people from voting as they don't want to be accused of being "antifa" or and filled full of lead.

 

Then the electoral college representatives will have the same issues a couple days later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[misteraven]

6 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

White supremacy is the final form of hipster elitism

Have you taken any time to dig into who the Proud Boys actually are? It was founded by a black Cuban guy. A lot of the key people in that organization are black and minority. I know the MSM is in over drive to paint it as a white supremacist movement but if you look at their crowds, many are clearly Asian, Hispanic and black. Interestingly, it largely breaks down into the racial segmentation that the country basically breaks down into. 
 

*Edit... My mistake, founder of the Florida chapter is black and cuban. Growing up in Miami, I pay extra attention to Florida news and misread a write up on it. That said, google searching did show a ton of black, Latin and Asian in their ranks, especially on the west coast. 

[Kalashnikov]

Might not be true for non-Americans, but remember when we were growing up (in the 90s for the boomers like me) in elementary school, when the teachers or your parents tried to motivate you? They used to say, "You can do anything you want. You could be president some day if you put your mind to it"... imagine saying some shit like that to your kid now. I could see a 7 year old being like, "Yeah, no shit..."

 

Whole thing was a trainwreck. Trump was his typical child self, Biden handled it all quite poorly. He has a temper too, and he lets it show... like bruh, you're supposed to take the "I'm the bigger person" card here. That is what people want to see. Moderate voters like myself are sick of listening to Trump whine, make shit up or say some outlandish shit then proceed to deny it, the whole package... just done. We don't need a different version of something like that. Although I do say I don't see him going on the disrespectful tirades that Trump has. Either way, this is the best that the DNC could come up with?

 

Idk, I'll probably be voting Jorgensen even though I don't 100% agree with everything libertarian I do agree with a good chunk of it. The American 2 party system is a huge fucking joke, and we're the ones paying the price. I can't vote for Biden after reading his gun control plan, and honestly I can't get over the whole '94 Crime Bill thing with him trying to come back now as some kind of hero against racism when he's directly responsible for locking up who knows how many black/brown people for what in many cases equates to nonsense/non violent drug crimes. I do agree with his mask mandate. Normally I'm pretty anti-government-in-your-personal-business but sometimes we have to realize the average person is just a moron and needs to be told what to do, especially in this case when it comes to having a direct impact on others. I can't vote for Trump because ...well, Trump.

[misteraven]

And for the record, since everything seems to require a disclaimer these days... I’m not a proud boy fan or supporter. Honestly I know little about them. I just figured I’d search it a bit when they became a topic, especially when it became obvious there was a lot of effort towards painting then in a very negative light. I don’t doubt there’s likely some dumbass racists that wandered into their ranks thinking it was something else, but when I really looked closely at photos, I saw plenty of non whites mixed into their crowds and for the Florida stuff I saw, noticed a lot of the names were Spanish (Cuban) names. Anyhow, amazing how a lot of the photos I’m referencing seem to now be kind of buried, but here’s a couple to support what I’m saying... Doesn’t really look like the types you’d expect in a white power gang. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Kalashnikov]

3 minutes ago, misteraven said:

And for the record, since everything seems to require a disclaimer these days... I’m not a proud boy fan or supporter. Honestly I know little about them. I just figured I’d search it a bit when they became a topic, especially when it became obvious there was a lot of effort towards painting then in a very negative light. I don’t doubt there’s likely some dumbass racists that wandered into their ranks thinking it was something else, but when I really looked closely at photos, I saw plenty of non whites mixed into their crowds and for the Florida stuff I saw, noticed a lot of the names were Spanish (Cuban) names. Anyhow, amazing how a lot of the photos I’m referencing seem to now be kind of buried, but here’s a couple to support what I’m saying... Doesn’t really look like the types you’d expect in a white power gang. 
 

 

 

 

Honestly I don't know anything about these guys aside from the negative shit I've seen in the news, and I am out of fucks to give for the rest of the night so I will be willfully ignorant until I revisit this thread at a later date. But I just wanna point out... you grew up in Miami. You HAVE to know that there are a fuckload of Cubans here who think they're full fledged, 100% gringoes. You can hear the shit talk about "los negros" or the jokes like "los oscuritos piensan que es welfare" if you listen to peoples' conversations. Until they get north of Broward and are in for culture shock when they turn into just another brown person.

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, Schnitzel said:

America you kind of look like you need to have compulsory voting for a couple of terms.

 

Force  the remaining 120 million (unsure of total voter numbers so just guessed)  of you to vote and you might get a selection of more likeable or suitable candidates trying to win the votes of more people and maybe leading to better outcomes.

 

At  the very least you might have a more informed electorate making voting decisions based on policy not tribal differences.

 

just a thought...

 

Trump gonna mobilise the good ol' boys to come out on election day fully tooled up and they'll hang around polling stations making a show of force.

Which will put off more moderate people from voting as they don't want to be accused of being "antifa" or and filled full of lead.

 

Then the electoral college representatives will have the same issues a couple days later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting perspective. I kinda feel the exact opposite... Limit who gets to vote so that they need to earn their way for the privilege. Minimum amount of military or volunteer service or some sort of experience that helps prove that they have a minimum amount of perspective and social / community involvement and sacrifice that proves they deserve to have a say in how people are governed. Than make it so those that run for office need 3x the qualification as those that vote them in. 

[misteraven]

7 minutes ago, Kalashnikov said:

Honestly I don't know anything about these guys aside from the negative shit I've seen in the news, and I am out of fucks to give for the rest of the night so I will be willfully ignorant until I revisit this thread at a later date. But I just wanna point out... you grew up in Miami. You HAVE to know that there are a fuckload of Cubans here who think they're full fledged, 100% gringoes. You can hear the shit talk about "los negros" or the jokes like "los oscuritos piensan que es welfare" if you listen to peoples' conversations. Until they get north of Broward and are in for culture shock when they turn into just another brown person.

Might possibly help explain the situation in Miami, but again, seemed even more diverse looking at the west coast rallies. Even so, not sure a Cuban that thinks he’s white can masquerade as a white nationalist since that’s what the MSM and social are painting them to be. 
 

example post off IG stories:

 

[misteraven]

Also kind of interesting how social

media political pundits seem to be ignoring discussion on the $500 billion Trump just announced to improve low income black communities or how he’s just classified the KKK as a terrorist group (along with Antifa). Again, not a fan or supporter but if you’re going to pass meaningful judgement on his actions, how you going to cherry pick like that?
 

More interesting still are the ones that do acknowledge it are just saying it’s all half hearted pandering, yet don’t bother recognizing that Biden, with his 1994 crime bill created the literal cornerstone for systemic racism. 

[fat ralphy]

insert potato jesus here

[fat ralphy]

Referring to your point Raven - most politicians have revamped their views on crime and punishment in the last 25 years as the pendulum has swung away from

mass incarceration. I am not surprised that Biden held a hard stance view then but undoubtedly changing his stance is possible considering it has been decades since those policies were put in place.

 

That being said - I am disturbed by creepy joe and his b-reel footage with all the young girls/ladies. But I think Trump presents a greater danger overall - fucking insane that we are still stuck with a lesser of two evils political system in the great US of A.

 

/crossfireoner

[6Pennies]

2 hours ago, misteraven said:

Have you taken any time to dig into who the Proud Boys actually are? It was founded by a black Cuban guy. A lot of the key people in that organization are black and minority. I know the MSM is in over drive to paint it as a white supremacist movement but if you look at their crowds, many are clearly Asian, Hispanic and black. Interestingly, it largely breaks down into the racial segmentation that the country basically breaks down into. 
 

*Edit... My mistake, founder of the Florida chapter is black and cuban. Growing up in Miami, I pay extra attention to Florida news and misread a write up on it. That said, google searching did show a ton of black, Latin and Asian in their ranks, especially on the west coast. 

Yep, the Anti-Defamation League has gone out of their way here in AZ  to state the PB are not a hate group because they do not exclude on the basis of race, and there are no know violent incidents here either.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by 6Pennies

[6Pennies]

1 hour ago, misteraven said:

Also kind of interesting how social

media political pundits seem to be ignoring discussion on the $500 billion Trump just announced to improve low income black communities or how he’s just classified the KKK as a terrorist group (along with Antifa). Again, not a fan or supporter but if you’re going to pass meaningful judgement on his actions, how you going to cherry pick like that?
 

More interesting still are the ones that do acknowledge it are just saying it’s all half hearted pandering, yet don’t bother recognizing that Biden, with his 1994 crime bill created the literal cornerstone for systemic racism. 

Why didn't the dumb ass reference designating the KKK as a terrorist group for that question is beyond me....

[Schnitzel]

1 hour ago, misteraven said:

Interesting perspective. I kinda feel the exact opposite... Limit who gets to vote so that they need to earn their way for the privilege. Minimum amount of military or volunteer service or some sort of experience that helps prove that they have a minimum amount of perspective and social / community involvement and sacrifice that proves they deserve to have a say in how people are governed. Than make it so those that run for office need 3x the qualification as those that vote them in. 

Kudos to you @misteraventhat reply was waaaaaaay more polite than I was expecting

 

I sort of see what you're saying but wouldn't reducing the amount of people you allow to vote mean any potential candidate has to offer less to improve society because they don't fear any backlash from the % who don't get to vote?

 

Using the military as an example current members and veterans is only about 25 million so not much of a sample of the american population.  But a huge swathe of  the experience listed above.
If all veterans get to vote then of course government policy is going to be swayed to appease them for their voting power than would be equitable.

 

Then to achieve three times that amount of service reduces most of the potential candidates to your high ranking career military whose leadership ability is based on blind obedience ("sir yes sir") not on consensus with as many parties as possible.

Yes you might have doctors/charity people/ religious leaders or whatever or the like but your core is going to be military because the military is big in the USA.

 

And then as a far fetched example

 

If some future ex general president decides to put forward a constitutional vote to make him "president for life" and promises full pensions and zero taxes for life for all veterans or servicemen who vote for him you could potentially have this happening based on the small fraction of society who gets to vote which is skewed to certain demographics by who is eligible to vote. 

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm sitting here by myself so this might not make any sense.

Feel free to shoot down my arguments because I'm possibly talking shit.

feels a bit weird to make a post about politics on here after carefully avoiding it for 15 years.