Tonight’s debate.

[Dark_Knight]

Wow.

[Schnitzel]

good bad otherwise?

cliff notes?

 

 

[Dark_Knight]

Exhausting. I’m not a fan of either, to be honest. 

The way trump carried himself was insulting and childish. I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone can support that type of behavior from a president. 
 

November will most likely be something our country has never seen before. 
 

Just at a loss for words. 

[mr.yuck]

@Schnitzelthe fact checkers are going furiously but the consensus is the vast majority of what trump said was made up horseshit including topics that had previously been discredited that he continues to repeat as fact. 

 

Also he was called out to directly denounce white supremacists and he wouldnt. The proud boys are now using "stand back stand by" as their motto which is something trump told all of his supporters to do.

 

Joe Biden was talking about his son who served in the military and is now dead. Trump told him he didn't know who that son was and then started talking about his other son who is struggling as an addict.

 

I think exhausting was a good word to describe this. 

 

Shit show has been thrown a lot.

[where]

Shit show for sure. Pretty even, Trump came off as a brat and Biden came off as dishonest and frail.

[Dark_Knight]

Im hard pressed to say trump even made any coherent point tonight. When a conservative Republican moderator is visibly shaken from irritation, I think it’s safe to say he didn’t win.

 

Biden is pretty stupid, but I believe you could literally put anyone on stage and they would have seemed more composed than trump. That was a fucking embarrassment to the office he holds. 

[Dark_Knight]

Edit: geared towards trump not you

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dark_Knight

[Boris The Butcher]

1 hour ago, Dark_Knight said:

Edit: geared towards trump not you

 

[Mercer]

Biden had a lot of trouble forming complete sentences even though it looked like he rehearsed very specific answers. Trump wouldn't shut the fuck up (until he was asked to denounce racism) lol. No faith at all in this bullshit system. We should all stop paying taxes.

[Elena Delle Donne]

[Mercer]

Also, I'm rating this debate a minor upset win for Biden. That might just be me personally not being able to listen to Trump talk for very long. Even though Biden didn't nail anything, or even form many complete sentences he didn't stall out on stage like I thought he would, he looked better up there than Trump. The demeanor, looking directly into the camera, sticking to the "I'm the lesser of two evils" game plan. Trump got thrown off in the first 5 minutes by the moderator, who instead of objectively asking questions, kicked it off by making pointed, bias political statements up there with question marks at the end. Trump never recovered from that and was on the defensive for the rest of the debate.

[Elena Delle Donne]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Also, I'm rating this debate a minor upset win for Biden. That might just be me personally not being able to listen to Trump talk for very long. Even though Biden didn't nail anything, or even form many complete sentences he didn't stall out on stage like I thought he would, he looked better up there than Trump. The demeanor, looking directly into the camera, sticking to the "I'm the lesser of two evils" game plan. Trump got thrown off in the first 5 minutes by the moderator, who instead of objectively asking questions, kicked it off by making pointed, bias political statements up there with question marks at the end. Trump never recovered from that and was on the defensive for the rest of the debate.

this seems to be the consensus of the political class, too, republicans included. i just don't think it matters. there are no undecided voters at this point 

[mr.yuck]

2 minutes ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

there are no undecided voters at this point 

They found 14 in Ohio. Just trying to suss out a coherent game plan for the country. Ha.

[Dark_Knight]

Democrats hate finding moderate and competent candidates. Leaves centrists discouraged to vote. If they lose it’s for the same reason they did in 2016.

 

Trump is an embarrassment to this country, but the democrats give very little relief. I hate everyone and I’m glad our empire is crumbling.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dark_Knight

[One Man Banned]

Didn't watch.  0 fucks given or lost.  

 

 

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

this seems to be the consensus of the political class, too, republicans included. i just don't think it matters. there are no undecided voters at this point 

I beg to differ. Probably more undecided voters than ever. The echo chambers are going to keep echoing, but my thoughts are that people are losing faith in droves. Seriously, who the fuck can you consciously vote for among those two walking dumpster fires. 

[Elena Delle Donne]

36 minutes ago, misteraven said:

I beg to differ. Probably more undecided voters than ever. The echo chambers are going to keep echoing, but my thoughts are that people are losing faith in droves. Seriously, who the fuck can you consciously vote for among those two walking dumpster fires. 

"undecided" and disaffected voters are different; you're talking about disaffected voters here. something like 40% (?) of eligible voters don't cast a vote every election. but i agree that we'll see even lower participation this year as people determine that this whole thing is fucked. 

 

an "undecided" voter is a formal pollster term; it's someone who wants to vote and is registered but has not yet decided who to vote for 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Elena Delle Donne

[Dark_Knight]

Biden does have the edge of potentially gaining even more voters than Hilary did. I think Trumps voters have been and will be the same as they were in 2016. 
 

Bidens challenge is getting those disaffected voters to vote. But if he does, he will win.

 

Both are pieces of shit and I cannot stress this enough. 

[misteraven]

I appreciate you explaining that for those that aren't familiar with the distinction. Suppose the point I was making is that those two groups are essentially the same at this point. There's a few threads on this subject so unsure if this is the right one to stray and start laying down predictions, but fuck it... I have a few minutes so I'll indulge a bit with a rant to explain mine.

 

The early voting, to me, was nonsense. Same with the mailed in ballots. That anyone would cast a vote before there was an opportunity for a debate (if not several) between candidates is just ridiculous, especially considering how Biden has been largely kept out of the spotlight. Now admittedly, the debate (which I'm guessing will be the only one) was a shit show by pretty much any reasonable standard. The bar for Biden was so freakin low that basically if he wasn't caught snoring during a live broadcast (again), he was going to get a passing grade. Also, doesn't take bias to have come to the conclusion that Trump was debating Wallace almost more than he was debating Biden. Crazy that with the bar that low, Trump still couldn't walk away with a clear win, so that speaks for the dumpster fire that is.

 

Now going back to voting... Elections are determined by swing voters that largely reside in a handful of battle ground states. Politicians don't give a fuck about anyone other than this small group, which is why they hardly go through the motions intended to not bleed off any of their base, and instead focus real efforts towards those swing voters in the battle ground states. This is why the early voting is hardly going to affect anything at all... The people that are all vocal about voting and the ones rushing out to vote early are the base that would have only voted that specific candidate regardless. Nothing short of that candidate murdering a kid on live TV (and even then I'd bet it could be spun in this climate) would get that person to vote the other way. Seeing as how evenly the two party system divides people, all of that will be a wash, as usual. As for the mailed in ballots, its only purpose is to muddy the waters enough to contest the outcome. How anyone could see it as anything more is simply playing into bias. There isn't a reason in the world, even in the midst of a "pandemic" and with social distancing and other protocols in place to ensure public safety that they couldn't establish proper in person polling. Considering the logistics involved with ensuring the integrity elections, "coupled with everyone screaming how this is once again the most important election of our lifetime", doesn't it seem odd that we'd entrust such an important process to mailed in ballots handled by an operation that pretty much everyone recognizes as unreliable (some might argue incompetent)? Further to that, can you imagine what is involved in collecting millions of physical documents, sorting them, verifying their validity, tallying the multitude of selections accurately and doing all of that across hundreds of locations that are largely staffed by temporary labor? Seriously, does anyone actually trust the integrity of that even if you don't wander down the rabbit hold of conspiracy? 

 

If you take a look at how close races are run and look at how tight the 2016 election went, coupled with how obvious and vehemently coordinated Trump's opposition has been, and then add all the hyper polarization and social unrest there is currently, short of a landslide victory, the next best thing is a race so tight that the pendants and MSM can coordinate communications that it was rigged. There's zero chance either side can't point at the mailed in ballots after the fact and not beat their dream loudly about how it was rigged and then use that as the basis to dispute the results, regardless of who wins. Reality is that the mail in ballots are an insurance policy to contest an undesired result and have absolutely zero to do with compassion for the health and safety of the voters.

 

Anyhow, kinda went off topic, but in any case... disaffected, disenfranchised, bewildered, etc... All of that is the same thing as undecided in my view. There's always going to be a contingent of agnostic as well, but those that somehow have not been sucked into the echo chamber of one side or the other and haven't completely lost faith in the system... I'm betting thats a growing demographic. Growing almost as fast as the inevitable next phase of that, which is to simply realize that its all theatrics and that voting for the vast majority of us truly has no affect at all since most of us aren't that small minority of swing voters in battle ground states.

 

Honestly, what I'm waiting for is the strategy to divide everyone through all this hyper polarized political nonsense backfires when all that anger turns towards the politicians instead of each other.

[misteraven]

44 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

Biden does have the edge of potentially gaining even more voters than Hilary did. I think Trumps voters have been and will be the same as they were in 2016. 
 

Bidens challenge is getting those disaffected voters to vote. But if he does, he will win.

 

Both are pieces of shit and I cannot stress this enough. 

Please explain why you believe Biden is more capable of consolidating support than Hillary was.

 

Biden can hardly communicate anything coherently. It's obvious there's some major issue(s) going on with him and I find it incredulous that anyone has any faith that he's capable of affecting any real change after a literal lifetime in senior political positions, including 8 years as vice president. I know it sounds like a meme, but if he was going to do anything significant, he'd have already done it. Ironic that other than him being vice president, the most notable achievement of his career was the crime bill he authored back in 1994. (Side note: Also amazing to see how largely liberal media outlets are scrambling to explain away incredibly unbalanced and consequential that was to black / poor / minority communities).

 

Can't argue your last sentence though.

[Dirty_habiT]

12 hours ago, Dark_Knight said:

 When a conservative Republican moderator ....

That guy may work for FOX but he is far from conservative or Republican IMO.  I've listened to him talk on subjects quite a bit.

[Dark_Knight]

@misteravenI think a lot of the disaffected voters of 2016 who didn’t vote because they were dissatisfied with both candidates will vote this time around. Republicans vote. They always have and always will. Left leaning people tend not to vote.

 

And a lot of those left leaning people will vote this time around knowing the consequences of them staying home. Biden is just as unlikeable as Hilary was. So it’s up to him to just keep his composure and cross his fingers those people go out.

 

Trouble is trying to appeal to the extreme left while keeping the moderate voter on board.

[Dark_Knight]

3 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

That guy may work for FOX but he is far from conservative or Republican IMO.  I've listened to him talk on subjects quite a bit.

Yeah I fact checked myself after this. He’s a registered democrat. I stand corrected.

[Elena Delle Donne]

19 minutes ago, misteraven said:

I appreciate you explaining that for those that aren't familiar with the distinction. Suppose the point I was making is that those two groups are essentially the same at this point

eh. someone who's very firm on their presidential ticket could be undecided, or close to it, on a state or local race on their ballot, for example. i don't agree that they're the same, but i'm here for the argument that one leads to the other. i might be splitting hairs at this point 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Elena Delle Donne
typo

[Dirty_habiT]

If this is any indication of "how crazy" this election is..... I've never voted in my life. I'll be voting this election without a doubt.

[misteraven]

1 minute ago, Dark_Knight said:

@misteravenI think a lot of the disaffected voters of 2016 who didn’t vote because they were dissatisfied with both candidates will vote this time around. Republicans vote. They always have and always will. Left leaning people tend not to vote.

 

And a lot of those left leaning people will vote this time around knowing the consequences of them staying home. Biden is just as unlikeable as Hilary was. So it’s up to him to just keep his composure and cross his fingers those people go out.

 

Trouble is trying to appeal to the extreme left while keeping the moderate voter on board.

We'll have to wait and see but I doubt it. Hillary was at least qualified even if you didn't buy into her position or trust her motives. Suppose you could argue Biden should be qualified after 50+ years in senior political positions, but it's pretty obvious he has major issues and that it's probably likely, if not probable, that casting a vote for him is actually putting Kamala Harris in control. Even if Biden is breathing at the end of his term, its pretty clear whats left of his mental faculty will never survive the rigors and stress of that job for very long.

 

I don't disagree that a lof of the younger people that rallied for Bernie will throw in with Biden, but it won't be enough to make a difference. Biden has no chance, and thats not because I like Trump. Unseating an incumbent is an uphill battle to begin with, but Biden just has too much working against him. He's too old, too much a part of the establishment (that even the left is starting to turn against) and is a train wreck every time he opens his mouth. They've literally thrown the kitchen sink at Trump since jump street and dude is still swinging. I think the play is that they're hoping to get Biden to the finish line, will muddy the waters to contest the close win Trump will achieve and instead hope to win back the Senate, which I also believe is unlikely. 

 

I believe with how bad the world is right now most of those undecided people will begrudgingly vote Trump. We'll have to wait and see, but I think most of us will agree that regardless who wins, just over half the nation will be ready to burn the country down and that they've managed to whip people up into such a frenzy that I doubt it can be kept from exploding for very much longer. Crazy how "civil war" is being discussed as a credible outcome by pretty mainstream voices. No idea what that could look like in this day and age or how many people truly have the guts to go that path, but I think its obvious this train is going over the cliff no matter who wins. Shit is spiraling towards a crash and burn unlike anything this country has seen. I think the real conversation is who's orchestrating it, because it isn't the two clowns that were debating last night.

[misteraven]

16 minutes ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

eh. someone who's very firm on their presidential ticket could be undecided, or close to it, on a state or local race on their ballot, for example. i don't agree that they're the same, but i'm here for the argument that one leads to the other. i might be splitting hairs at this point 

Off topic, but who were you on here before your current user name? Its okay of you dont want to say, but pretty certain you arent new. Regardless, appreciate the informed position on your comments.

[Dark_Knight]

2 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Shit is spiraling towards a crash and burn unlike anything this country has seen. I think the real conversation is who's orchestrating it, because it isn't the two clowns that were debating last night.

This is the main point. Smoke and mirrors. Wonder what the plan is.

[misteraven]

2 minutes ago, Dark_Knight said:

This is the main point. Smoke and mirrors. Wonder what the plan is.

Can be fun to speculate but these days, you're shunned as a kook "conspiracy theorist"  if you make any attempts. Amazing to see actually, that they've used Qanon as a vehicle to dub anyone that discounts the official narrative as a "right winger" or even "racist" if they don't fall in line. Scary shit.

 

That said, I do believe Soros is on the visible edge of whatever group that is.

[Dark_Knight]

@misteraven Conspiracy theories are fun, but obviously flawed logic. Fun nonetheless. The fact that they have grown exponentially over the last few years is testament to the overall distrust there is for our political system in general. 

It’s only natural that people will go rogue and try to find the real reasoning behind anything on their own.

 

If the government didn’t lie to us it would be easy to get rid of this trend. But in the mean time it’s fun to fall in to those rabbit holes from time to time.