Weigh In: Has the social media revolution devolved conversation?

[misteraven]

On 8/3/2018 at 7:21 PM, Fist 666 said:

Well I can't figure out how to post videos but this is relevant.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxR8pJmI7S4

 

You just copy / paste the URL and wait a few moments for it to process the link and embed.

[misteraven]

On 8/4/2018 at 5:40 AM, Mercer said:

Many of us that are more savvy in the arts of online engagement realize if Instagram just stopped curating the feeds, and allowed you to view your timeline sequentially (with adds & sponsored posts injected here and there) it would be much more engaging. Not so much for your average user who doesn't even notice the top post in their feed was from yesterday, but for users like myself, or Allen who wouldn't mind investing some time in creating quality posts if their followers were actually allowed to see them.

Thing is that that this fucks up their business model. Its not just as simple as them selling ad space and juggling a formula of 1 ad for every xx posts... First of all buy curating feeds, they're capitalizing on the behavior patterns of addiction. Can't recall what thread it was where someone posted one of the co-founders (I think of Facebook) discussing this and all of us sort of in awe that nobody at Facebook has been thrown in jail yet (maybe someone who remembers the video can repost it here). Further, it also disguises the "fatigue" part of whats happening. Most people follow a ton of people so by remixing the feed, it disguises that most people aren't posting all that often anymore. Your feed feels new each time, because it keeps remixing the it each time. This allows it to be more compelling as you get the feeling your seeing what's new, but in reality its only new to you and often was posted hours or days ago. This gets mixed in with posts that are genuinely new to leave you with the overall feeling that its popping. Meanwhile, a lot of people are given priority and these are the accounts that are strategic to Instagrams growth, whether its a celebrity account that helps expand the base or a commercial account that is putting money into sponsored posts and playin the game the way Instagram wants it played. Those not following so many people or the power users that are spending more time looking at their feed than there is followed content to fill . it, will then note that more and more "explore" posts and recommendations start showing up, presumably so they follow more accounts, which in turn keeps the hamster wheel turning.

 

If you show posts chronologically, it literally fucks up the model and accelerates the decline of the platform.

[misteraven]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:05 PM, ~KRYLON2~ said:

I agree 100% that analytics kills creativity, when I worked on political campaigns we had apps like VAN (Voter Activation Network) that your canvassers could select answers to questions you would ask potential voters. based on this data collected you could determine what issues needed to be addressed in your constituency. but what a lot of people fail to recognize is that NUMBERS ARE ABSTRACT TO REALITY!!! sometimes following your intuition is the best road to follow. i believe the reason people value metrics so much is that you have a formula that helped you come to a final decision, and if your decision is wrong you can go back to the data and see where your metrics were off. whereas if you went with your intuition you would be held for full accountability for the success or failure of a decision. i think a 50/50 mix of data and intuition keeps the creativity valid in the decision making process if the information is available

I think this was a key element in what lost HRC the election. BO masterfully used tools like social media and analytics in his campaign and I think HRC (true to form) came at it from an arrogant position and the wild card presented by Trump was just the perfect storm of a situation to throw the DNC's data way off. I think they ignored all the obvious warning signs because they saw their data work so well when it can to getting BO into office. It's ironic (and disconcerting) that the DNC doesn't seem to have learned it's lessons from that experience and are largely doing the same thing that led to the dynamic that got Trump elected.

 

Also find it amazing that the media has the balls to tout polling numbers still after the embarrassment of how completely wrong all the polls were throughout the last election cycle. Very much goes to show how entrenched the status quo is and how easy it is to remain so when people seem to be content in continuing to either stay distracted or buy into the narrative they've chosen to follow.

[delv]

http://visualidiot.com/ - Interesting read from someone that is pretty well known in the design/web industry.

[misteraven]

Interesting read. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just looking for shit like this to back my own position or if it really as common as I'm thinking.

[misteraven]

 

[misteraven]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/27/technology/social-media-bots.html

[misteraven]

 

[mn1_fuckos]

I remember seeing this Pete Holmes "Internet Sleuth" stand up about 8 years ago and laughing my ass off. 

 

Fast forward and this shit stopped being funny because of how often it happens nowadays. 

 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/jj109e/comedy-central-presents-internet-sleuth

 

 

 

[delv]

https://www.drjasonfox.com/blog/post-social-one

[misteraven]

Fairly long read for this day and age, but still a smaller investment than catching up on this entire thread if you’re new. 

 

Really inreresting bit is how precisely it parallels what is being explored / considered / stated in the various comments of this thread. 

 

Beijg honest, I haven’t fully turned my back on Instagram (pretty much the only platform I’ve used for the last many years). But that said, for those of you following my personal account or even 12ozProphet, I’m sure you’ve noticed the steady decline in participation (unless you’re participation is also largely in decline). 

 

I will acknowledge that the forum, as is, needs to somehow evolve to more effectively bridge what was (deeper or more insightful, long form discussions) and what is (self gratuitous, extremely limited effort, easy to digest morsels of somewhat compelling content). 

 

At the same time, I’ve also realized and have heard the same from many others on here (ironically, most often by way of DMs on instagram), that it’s been surprisingly nice to reconnect on the forum and engage with each other on a deeper level. 

 

————-

 

I feel now we’re a few months into this *come back* and have a decent sized and consistent group on here. Obviously not huge, but definitely large enough that I feel a steady flow of community and certainly seeing regular comments / threads as I check in through out the day, every day. 

 

Im of the opinion, same as before when we started, that it’s still very possible to see the forum become huge again, but that it’ll take time and continued efforts with development and marketing / promotion. 

 

Would love to hear from some of you *regulars* as well as some of you guys I’d reached out to on Instagram to come back through and check out the new forum since we’re further along in this process. 

 

Whats been your experience?

[6Pennies]

Exodus.  Movement of Jah people>>>>

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3q5nk/44-percent-of-americans-18-27-have-deleted-the-facebook-app-this-year-poll-finds?utm_source=vicefbus

[Mercer]

One of the reasons I find the debate surrounding this subject unproductive is the self censoring that has to take place. There’s no “getting to the root” of our differences, and nothing to be learned from listening to someone with an opposing view.

 

A lot of this has to do with one sides tendency to becomes immediately defensive (understandably) over anything that doesn’t follow their narrative that 100% of the problems of racial disparity are due to victimhood, and nothing else could be causing these differences. The other side which may or may not agree with political correctness privately, but isn’t brave enough to risk crossing those boundaries even when they’re obviously unproductive. What were left with is a stalemate, where neither side learns anything from the other.

 

 

Thats why I have a problem with “make statements when you’re not on the clock”. It’s obvious that has nothing to do with what’s at the core of the issue, and is unproductive. To the other side of the argument that’s in defensive mode, it comes off as disingenuous, they know there isn’t a single person actually triggered by employer/employee etiquette

 

 

 

What many of us are hoping for is a new Age of Enlightenment. Where honest discussion of complex subjects are welcomed, and have real results. 

 

This is podcast covers the enlightenment subject fairly well:

 

 

[+plus+]

All i know is that ben shapiro makes those triggered owned compilations that my edgy 14 year old cousin likes to send me

[+plus+]

Definitely a more steady flow of people on here. IT kinda goes in spurts though. Not consistent as it once was but still more content than I anticipated. 

Some of the more niche threads aren't as big but the general "your day in pics" type stuff is doing really well. Enjoy seeing different peoples lifes from around the globe that aren't competing for likes, just sharing. 

[Kults]

Only funny cause it’s true 

[kr430n5666]

I've thought about this a lot myself.  There was something really special about how things were before "social media" was even a phrase.  

I'm jumping in here kind of late but wanted to say that I appreciate your post @misteravenand share your perspective.  I respect that you've kept this site going regardless of the changes that have gone on with internet culture.  I think it is true that a lot of the people who have been around a long time are starting to get tired of where things are at now.  

 

Returning to forums is kind of odd feeling after being conditioned to think that anything that can't be taken in within a few seconds gets the tl;dr classification.  I personally have become increasingly tired of social media and have been recoiling back to earlier forms of communication.  Probably why I ended up checking back here.

 

Social media is really noisy and appears to have embraced narcissism and ego boosts without hesitation, not to mention the sharing of some of the most inane content.  That's not to say there are some good things about it as well.  But in general, its really loud and it gets pretty grating after a while.

[6Pennies]

somewhat related; somewhat off-topic.  shit's scary though....

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-18/china-social-credit-a-model-citizen-in-a-digital-dictatorship/10200278

[~KRYLON2~]

holy shittttttttttttt.............the problem with it is who decides what are good and bad decisions. what is the criteria for positive and negative social credits? Your basically taking away free will from people so they can base their ideals on what the government wants them to be.....unacceptable and super fuckin creepy. I could on about how terrifying this is, but lets see how it develops. 

[Mercer]

I meant for my last post up there to go in the Nike thread.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Mercer
Fucked up

[misteraven]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

I meant for my last post up there to go in the Nike thread.

Report the post and throw a move request in the comment when it’s being reported. 

 

*Traveling at the moment and on my phone or I’d just go do it. 

[Brink]

Without having read through the previous 6 pages (someone else might have already mentioned this), I think the large reason forums are dying is due to the consumers lack of focus. There's no secret that as the era of social media has developed, many people (not just kids) are losing the ability to sit down and read, say, a large 6,000+ character body of text. For this same reason, the book industry has been steadily decreasing throughout the years with this same principle of thought: It's just too much. 

 

With the creation of sites like Twitter, reducing any sort of information to just 250 characters has made it possible to get your world news for the day in about 10 minutes while sitting on the toilet. Reddit can be browsed in a similar fashion through just reading headline, watching GIFS, and then just scrolling through relatively short comments. Instagram boils down peoples lives to a single picture, which no one really spends more than 3 seconds looking at. Even news stations on TV are forced to have bottom scrollers, flashy transitions, and completely exaggerated titles in order to keep the attention of the viewer. Our entire culture at this point has reduced to bite sized connections so that we can always be moving, never sitting and digesting the life we are actually living.

 

I think your intro paragraph, Raven, would only be read by those who might have grown up with nothing else to do then read a book on a cloudy day. Even in the early days of the internet, the large bodies of text were so easily tackled since no one was distracted by the thousands of other fully optimized sites we have now.

 

We, as a culture, have lost the ability to simply sit and focus on one thing until completion. If text is too long, it becomes a hindrance on our seemingly important lives. How often do you find yourself mindlessly scrolling through instagram while sitting on the train/bus? There are very few moments where people just simply think. We have certainly devolved in this aspect, but I hope that places such as the oontz, with the incredible wealth of information and experienced people here, with see a resurgence due to our innate nature to learn, and develop social connections with others.

[misteraven]

Twitter wants to be more conversational -- and apparently more like a message board and a chat app.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/01/twitter-threaded-replies-status-indicators/

[Brink]

I'd go so far as to argue that in an attempt to make it more conversational, its actually becoming less... twitter at its core is just void of essence

 

this thread, for example, is probably the most "realistic" representation of conversation you could have

[misteraven]

 

[Kults]

^ Thats an Oontzer popping his head up 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Kults

[Dirty_habiT]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:49 AM, Brink said:

With the creation of sites like Twitter, reducing any sort of information to just 250 characters has made it possible to get your world news for the day in about 10 minutes while sitting on the toilet. Reddit can be browsed in a similar fashion through just reading headline, watching GIFS, and then just scrolling through relatively short comments. Instagram boils down peoples lives to a single picture, which no one really spends more than 3 seconds looking at. Even news stations on TV are forced to have bottom scrollers, flashy transitions, and completely exaggerated titles in order to keep the attention of the viewer. Our entire culture at this point has reduced to bite sized connections so that we can always be moving, never sitting and digesting the life we are actually living.

@Brink- this reminds me of this guy I worked with at two different jobs in a row.  It took me a little while but I eventually saw through his bs and realized that there are many more in the world doing exactly what he does.

 

*if you ever saw him walking from one place to the next, it was like the beer guy in every picture online, he had one arm bent in front of him holding his phone as he was walking looking down at it. 

*Many times he had headphones plugged in as well.
*very opinionated and ready to assert thoughts as "correct" in nearly any situation.

*too busy to actually help do work every time asked.

*very self absorbed.

 

This was weird to me after I realized this guy doesn't have much work output here in the office.... like wtf is he actually being paid to do.  He rage quit the 1st job we worked at together when he got passed up for a promotion after working for only 60 days at the new job.  Guess what he thought he deserved it.

I'm sorry for rambling but what you said above got me thinking about people that do this.  If you're so focused on your phone and these small bits of info I think you feel like you're really absorbing a lot of knowledge when really you've trained your brain to have ADHD basically.  I always thought to myself, he's not really doing anything on his phone that's important like he has to be cut off from the world with no distractions, he's looking at cat pictures and listening to k-pop probably.  He somehow tricked all the superiors at the job into thinking he was a super genius too.  He'd parade around the office anytime he got the tiniest bit of work done and make a big huge show out of it, while the more hard working people would grumble and say "he barely did xyz." 

Anyhow, that's probably TMI, I think the media is heavily influencing our culture to be this way.  Shut off, silo'd, in our own little perfect world that we created around ourself like a kid w/ blocks.  Perfectly satisfied with ignorance.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 1:10 PM, kr430n5666 said:

I've thought about this a lot myself.  There was something really special about how things were before "social media" was even a phrase.  

I'm jumping in here kind of late but wanted to say that I appreciate your post @misteravenand share your perspective.  I respect that you've kept this site going regardless of the changes that have gone on with internet culture.  I think it is true that a lot of the people who have been around a long time are starting to get tired of where things are at now.  

 

Returning to forums is kind of odd feeling after being conditioned to think that anything that can't be taken in within a few seconds gets the tl;dr classification.  I personally have become increasingly tired of social media and have been recoiling back to earlier forms of communication.  Probably why I ended up checking back here.

 

Social media is really noisy and appears to have embraced narcissism and ego boosts without hesitation, not to mention the sharing of some of the most inane content.  That's not to say there are some good things about it as well.  But in general, its really loud and it gets pretty grating after a while.

@kr430n5666 Working in tech for so many years turned me off from social media long ago.  I'm not using that as a measuring stick or anything, but I'm glad that I'm not the only one feeling this way about the internet.  I keep telling people I liked it when it was just nerds on here.  It's the ad's and monetizing views/clicks/impressions etc that has royally screwed things up and skewed much of it towards greed.  Awesome to see you here after so many years btw.

[Dirty_habiT]

I forgot to link this article yesterday while I was writing my post.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/busy-new-stupid-ed-baldwin-sphr-gphr/

 

The CTO of my last job sent that out to the company and after reading it I realized how many people throughout my day were spinning their wheels, not getting a lot done, and making it seem like they're really getting a ton of work done.  It's a good read even though I don't like or participate in linkedin.

 

I'll attempt to make this a short post, because you're busy, and I'm busy too. Really busy.  It's one of the primary ways we let people know we are important. Because if we aren't busy then we aren't important, right?  

WRONG.

I've found that the most productive and successful people I've ever met are busy, but you wouldn't know it.  They find time that others don't.  And while you may not get much of their time, when you do you get undivided attention. They are fully present and maximize every moment of the interaction. No multi-tasking because that's as bad as blowing you off all together.    

For most of us, we waste time.  We invest our precious time on things that we shouldn't. And that means we have less hours to invest wisely, on things that do matter. That might be improving our professional skills, pursuing a tremendous business opportunity, investing in a hobby, or simply spending more time with the people we love.

Why do most of us waste time and then make every attempt to express to others how busy we are?  Because as a society we've come to glorify busy. We've all been tricked into believing that if we are busy we are important.  But that's not true.

Busy isn't cool.  In fact, BUSY IS THE NEW STUPID.  

Being busy makes us hurried, creates short-sightedness, expands blind spots, increases careless mistakes and results in missed opportunities that we can't get back. Busyness creates more woulda, coulda and shoulda than anything else in our life - which ultimately leads to regret.  And regret sucks.

  Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.  
- Sydney J. Harris

So the next time you find yourself apologetically telling someone that you would liked to have met them, responded to them, or just acknowledged their existence but couldn't because you've been so busy, consider the REAL message(s) you're sending them:

1. My time is more important than yours.
2. I'm not very good at prioritizing my time.
3. I want you to judge me based on how busy I am, not how productive I am. 
4. You aren't a priority, or at least what you want to speak with me about isn't a priority.

I spoke to a colleague (thanks Greg Roche) about this very issue and how we might avoid glorifying our busyness and the importance we place on it.  The world is in perpetual do-more-with-less mode and that means it's easy for all of us to fall into the trap of becoming busy. Just speak to someone a generation or two older than you to confirm that the world moves much faster than it used to, and that the pace of change continues to increase with each passing day, month and year.  Well, my colleague offered me a simple suggestion on how to curb my personal glorification of busy when interacting with family, friends and colleagues.  

Instead of using "I've been busy" as an excuse for your lack of responsiveness, instead simply say "it's not a priority for me".

Because that's what you're really saying.  

Doing so will definitely set the cat amidst the pigeons and cause you to reflect heavily on whether you should have prioritized differently!  To opt instead for the mainstream response of apologizing and saying your busy is just plain weak, and probably constitutes a little white lie.  Because you could have chosen not to invest the last two hours catching up on email or sitting in worthless meetings. Because you could have chosen not to watch the last episode of Game of Thrones, or not taken that walk to play Pokemon Go and capture two more fictitious characters. You get the picture.  

I've started to adopt this practice and it's highlighted for me the importance of prioritizing my time, and not using the excuse that I've been too busy.  Telling someone straight up that they aren't a priority is a lot harder.  Saying "it isn't a priority" also doesn't glorify your busyness and imply that your time is more valuable than theirs.  

Try it out and see if it drives different behavior from you - it certainly has for me. 

 

[Brink]

Actually a decent read, thanks for sharing

[misteraven]

The first half of @Dirty_habiTpost resonated with me, the second part not so much. 

 

Having lived in NYC, but especially because I’ve dedicated myself quite a bit to trying to build stuff (products / projects / opportunities), I’ve spent a lot of time chasing people down and trying to get in front of them. 

 

Ive been blown off my fair share of the time and once I got passed my own ego about it and considered the situation, have come to accept that people are in fact busy. There are 24 hours in a day and finite amount of time available within each. Every person prioritized the time available to them in the way they seem fit and regardless of how far up or down the hierarchy you’re targeting, it almost always comes down to a value proposition. 

 

I see taking king someone’s time as their investment in me. Whether it’s hanging out and having fun or a meeting to pitch an opportunity, it largely comes down to you presenting enough return on that investment of time, whether as a good friend that’s fun to be around or a possible partner in an exciting project that aligns / appeals to the person your pitching to. 

 

Ive learned to understand and harness the reality that if I’m being blown off, especially after following up a couple times, that the responsibility for that falls on me, not them. It’s on the one requesting another persons time to merit taking it, and not an obligation for the person you’re seeking it from to just hand it over. 

 

To make a blanket statement that a person too busy for you doesn’t know how to prioritize their time is a falsehood and honestly fits with the sort of hyper politically correct society we seem to have engineered for ourselves. Reality is that the vast majority of the time, if you merit a persons time, you’ll get it. Otherwise, they’re simply doing you a favor and that’s a limited commodity for most people. 

 

If you dont get a persons time, then look at yourself, be honest about it and seek out ways to increase your own equity, so in the future it becomes about people seeking your time instead of the other way around. 

 

Interesting diversion from the main main topic and probably a thread in itself.