Weigh In: Has the social media revolution devolved conversation?

[misteraven]

Now, promoting attention spans more appropriate for a fruit fly is a business opportunity...

 

[Dirty_habiT]

Wow, just encourage people to not read or educate themselves.  There are smart people behind these campaigns to keep the general population kinda dumb.  I'm not saying it's some huge conspiracy with an end goal but I feel that like unspoken end goal is hurtling towards us anyway.

[metronome]

About damn time TL;DR became an app.

[Brink]

2+2=5

[Kults]

16 hours ago, Brink said:

2+2=5

Twoo plus Twoo is Foh

 

 

Quick Mafs

[Mercer]

So twitter has banned one of my favorite political meme/humor accounts (anarchyball), now I hear facebook did a recent purge of multiple libertarian pages, along with all the copwatch, copblock accounts. They have a very serious problem with users that question authority.

 

[Kults]

31 minutes ago, Mercer said:

So twitter has banned one of my favorite political meme/humor accounts (anarchyball), now I hear facebook did a recent purge of multiple libertarian pages, along with all the copwatch, copblock accounts. They have a very serious problem with users that question authority.

 

It’s a free platform to talk about whatever you want. As long as your opinion lines up with the current hive mind. Or else ‘ fuck off you racist bigot’

[misteraven]

There was a series of articles recently referencing a memo that went around Google that walked back from the idea that the internet should be left to grow organically to now taking the position that Google has a moral obligation to filter the thought and content that is accessible. Considering that they have a near monopoly on indexing the internet, I find this to shocking that A) they'd even acknowledge take this position, and B) that it didn't light up the internet.

 

I guess its just par for the course, but if you don't think that the big players online aren't manipulating what you care about, what you know and your position on anything of worth, you're definitely plugged into the Matrix in a big way.

[morton]

I am trying to reset my attention span, the first step was to uninstall LinkedIn, Reddit, and Imjur from my phone and go to the library to get some books. Starting off with some a couple novels to warm up and then planning on working back to reading history and nonfiction on a regular basis along with some work related self study.  

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, morton said:

I am trying to reset my attention span, the first step was to uninstall LinkedIn, Reddit, and Imjur from my phone and go to the library to get some books. Starting off with some a couple novels to warm up and then planning on working back to reading history and nonfiction on a regular basis along with some work related self study.  

That new iOS feature of tracking your usage and also warning of limits you setup is actually helping me a lot. I suppose the first step is even recognizing the problem and then deciding to do something about it, but I'm finding its not that big a deal once you're a few weeks into a different routine. I'm also really convinced that using a computer to offset the mobile usage helps me a ton. Its a far better experience typing and reading on a computer and doing that makes me not want to do a lot of my phone all that much more.

[Kults]

4 hours ago, misteraven said:

There was a series of articles recently referencing a memo that went around Google that walked back from the idea that the internet should be left to grow organically to now taking the position that Google has a moral obligation to filter the thought and content that is accessible. Considering that they have a near monopoly on indexing the internet, I find this to shocking that A) they'd even acknowledge take this position, and B) that it didn't light up the internet.

 

I guess its just par for the course, but if you don't think that the big players online aren't manipulating what you care about, what you know and your position on anything of worth, you're definitely plugged into the Matrix in a big way.

Not to mention being the only ones who didn’t show for the senate oversight inquiry. 

[Kults]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/senate-intelligence-committee-shaming-google-alphabet-empty-chair.html

 

• Google tried to send its top lawyer to the hearing on foreign interference in U.S. elections, but the committee wanted either Alphabet CEO Larry Page or Google Chief Executive Sundar Pichai to testify alongside executives from Twitter and Facebook.

[iloveboxcars]

4 hours ago, morton said:

I am trying to reset my attention span, the first step was to uninstall LinkedIn, Reddit, and Imjur from my phone and go to the library to get some books. Starting off with some a couple novels to warm up and then planning on working back to reading history and nonfiction on a regular basis along with some work related self study.  

I did the same awhile back. The way I made it work is by getting collections of short stories, short novels, and easy reads.

 

Nine Stories by J. D. Salinger, anything by H. G. Wells but The Time Machine or The Invisible Man would be my recommendations, and for easy short reads I would start with The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett, or 1984 by Orwell. That's how I started anyway. I then moved on to books that were still short but had a little more meaning behind them such as Common Sense by Thomas Paine or On the Abolition of All Political Parties by Simone Weil. Now I'm going through the classics as I have time. Currently on Dracula.

 

 

 

 

[Schnitzel]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:14 AM, misteraven said:

Now, promoting attention spans more appropriate for a fruit fly is a business opportunity...

 

 same with that  blinkist app

 "ever read four books in one day?"

 

It's not fucking reading a book it's reading the summary.

not the same thing.

 

I read more than 4 books each day they just all happen to be aimed at 2-5 year olds.

 

 Just set app limits this week because insta is becoming a huge part of my day roughly 2.5 hours a day for the last week) which is insane.

 

3 hours of that was spent trading dm's while I scoped a freight spot out one night but still more than half a day last week was spent mindlessly looking at graff on my phone....

[Dirty_habiT]

On 10/22/2018 at 1:27 PM, morton said:

I am trying to reset my attention span, the first step was to uninstall LinkedIn, Reddit, and Imjur from my phone and go to the library to get some books. Starting off with some a couple novels to warm up and then planning on working back to reading history and nonfiction on a regular basis along with some work related self study.  

Bravo, deleting social media will definitely put a dent in their bottom line when everyone catches on that it's bullshit anyway.  I want a fucking king size snickers, not a mini snickers.

 

Misteraven's post about the IOS screentime app reminds me of something that I do that pisses people off pretty regularly.  I treat my phone like it's a tool that I use when I want to use it.... and that's not very often.  I mute it quite a bit and don't check it for hours.  I leave it in the car when i go places that I will be walking around because, you know.... I checked how to get where I was going before I got there and don't need to be buried in GPS while I'm walking.  This leads me to another thing that absofuckinglutely gets under my skin.  People walking looking at their phone should be just as illegal as driving w/ the phone.  I don't want to have to navigate around you because you're too dumb to look where you're going in crowds.  Also, a more street conscious person with less morals than me might just snatch your shit and you will have 0 chance of catching them because you're an internet nerd that only uses this fantastic tool for cat pictures and social media.  In any case, try ignoring your phone, leave it at home sometimes.  I forget mine on my coffee table sometimes and realize as I'm already a mile from the house that I forgot my phone and guess what..... I choose to not turn around and get it because it's not a necessity.  There is no "emergency" where someone needs to get ahold of me and if I have an emergency there are plenty of ways to get help without using your own phone.

 

I'm a tech guy that hates tech.  I have a very full bookshelf at home and need more room because I want more books.

[glorydays]

wisecrack explanation of why everthing is wrestling

 

 

[misteraven]

Relevant...

 

[Kults]

[misteraven]

 

[Kults]

^ Heard about this last year during his hearing. Of course they knew. Most of these big tech execs don’t even let their own kids touch the stuff. They live in tablet/ smartphone free homes an pay premiums to send  them to screen free private schools.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Kults

[misteraven]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/30/tech/instagram-hiding-likes/index.html

 

Interesting move (and telling) that Instagram is beta testing hiding likes. At first I was like, fake news- ain’t going to happen... But then thinking it through and now seeing it happen (in Canada, verified by @Kults), it makes sense. 

 

Here’s what I think is happening...

 

the success of Instagram, like this forum, is in fact the average user. That’s the foundation in any community. Instagram has obviously evolved to a powerful platform and they’ve added features / tools to enable ‘super users’. In fact, they cultivate it by adding ‘verification’ badges and adjusting their algorithm to ‘promote’ these ‘super users’. Seems what’s happened, however, is it’s become an echo chamber. That for the most part, these super users aren’t actually contributing content, but rather using it as a platform to promote themselves or often, their company. Those same super users have metrics and tools that allow them to optimize every post, and no doubt their also think of post content the same way. So they’re driving hard for likes, and in comparison to the average user (and metrics), getting them. 

 

They by product of that is that you have to work far harder to get ‘likes’ as it’s no longer an organic process. The average user is seeing likes decline and feeling increasing stress since the super users are driving hard, getting extra help from the platform and seeing huge ‘likes’ counts. 

 

Its inevitable that on top of the fatigue (that’s very real), that the average user is contributing less and less. Instagram recognizes this as a death spiral, even if far off. The move to hide likes is a reaction to lesson that stress and get their base contributing again. Though their overall traffic might sustain, largely due to the addictive qualities of this whole thing (which is also very real) and also because there simply hasn’t been a compelling alternative to Instagram, they know this is a very bad sign. 

 

That drop off in contributions is what we observed and discussed previously, and why there’s so many suggestion on who to follow and hash tags you can follow, which is now taking up more and more of a persons feed. Obviously, they’re trying very hard to promote engagement / growth. 

 

Instagram is basically a steady stream of advertising at this point. Obviously, not in the traditional sense (though even that can be debated most of the time), but self serving content with obvious agenda and strategy.

 

my prediction, and there’s already evidence of moves their making to this end, is that they’ll soon start to really focus on the comment side of things. They’ll add whatever tools and features to encourage discussion as yet another method to mitigate the death spiral. Likewise, I predict they’ll also implement further features or things that encourage their base; the average user. 

 

Instagram is dead. They just don’t know it yet. Also a ton of people have made real investments into their accounts and the platform. They’ll also resist, which will help drag out the process. 

 

Just my observation, followed by two cents.  

[glorydays]

@misteravenI believe every social media platform has set up a cash register on top of FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out

I believe you are right and that the decline of the "free" social media space is now occurring...the apparent "peak" would've been the very public "FYRE fest" shit pile that happened a while ago

 

social media is so entwined in making a buck that apps being developed today are literally social platforms where you can make friends selling shit

 

etsy

depop

poshmark

stockx

 

its a natural turn and history says that subcultures revolving around commodities will simply evolve into a revolving door of trends made for sale

Edited May 10, 2019 by glorydays

[Kults]

Thought this belonged here 

[Hua Guofang]

Whilst I miss a constant feed of new work, like we used to have here, I'm satisfied that I don't IG.

 

Deleted FB recently as well, for multiple reasons. I still have to run the corporate Twitter account though, unfortunately.

[Steel Schnauzer]

Still gritty, leave the pretty to the females The watch mother pearl weather seashells Pick of the litter, have this nigga picking paper up Twitter thug, I'm the townline strangler

[Hayabusa]

I started reading this thread while at the gym inbetween sets... on my

phone. Im typing a reply currently on my phone, while taking a dump.

 

few thoughts (i didnt read everything before me but i’ll weigh in)

 

im 30 something now. I started on this site way back when I was deep into the artsy side of shit. This and a few other forums were really the ONLY way at the time to connect, engage, learn the ropes and see cool shit. Phones werent such a thing at the time so my fix was only available on a PC, and once I sat down for a minute I was hooked for hours! 

 

Fast forward a few years... I am

older, into different shit that doesn’t require nor really have an “internet component” to it, i start into the career, job, woman, friends life, and all of a sudden am finding myself with less time to devote to this stuff. I have to find a balance between hobby and social

life and engagement with an internet community goes by the way side.

 

Enter social media. I began with Facebook (which i think now is mostly old people sharing their photos of grand kids?). I never like facebook or saw a reason for it. Like some said, it always felt like an over-share and the people who were most into it and engaged were people i didnt care for in real life! 

 

Then i got into instagram. Initially it was a breath of fresh air. I liked seeing photos, art, cool stuff, without the riff raff. It was a perfect little quick thing to do when bored day to day. I didnt have 3-4 hrs a day for a forum, but did have 3-4 hrs a day in 2-5 min increments (crazy if u add up all your daily screen time)

 

I thought IG was somewhere i could share my art, check out others, etc like the art sections of this forum.

 

i quickly realized this was not the case at all, especially as the app evolved and changed.

 

the problems: the app (and all other social media platforms) are NOT about nor for the users, where forums are. You gotta wonder how a FREE service such as these platforms are some of the most PROFITABLE companies out there? Where is the revenue from? Not users! They dont even take a cut if you make money from THEIR platform! Thats pretty confident! 

 

These platforms that were maybe once about discourse or engagement evolved into something else. Money and profit. Which fair enough, running shit aint free, but I think people need to realize this and not get it twisted.

 

its what happens with most things. Imho the internet back in its early years was a niche space, a community for subcultures, outcasts, not the main stream. 

 

With the popularity of social platforms, the realization of how to profit from these platforms and the internet i think we see it become mainstream, targeting the mainstream, but not for the same reasons the internet was cool back in the day for “us”. Kind of like an internet culture appropriation. 

 

I personally dont see long form discussion ever becoming a thing online anymore personally. The mainstream folks that were turned onto the net were done so by the new age of it and were never previously involved in long forums to begin with. The new age kids are coming up in a time where no such discussion ever existed. Its a new wave. 

 

It never was cool to spend “hours online” but thats what u needed to do in order to truly be engaged online. Now people STILL spend hours on their screen but somehow splitting that time into small chunks throughout the day is regarded as better. Not conducive to sharing real thoughts or opinions.

 

it also goes hand in hand with how the platforms work. You think 12oz would get the same ad revenue from a dude who literally spent an hour in one thread, reading replies, and typing this comment up? Probably not as much as a site that gets millions of “clicks” and “views” and “likes” which is the barometer for popularity, engagement and monetary worth now, although not an accurate one (but them companies needed some measurable way to fool people).

 

the way its set up now capitalizes on our very nature. These shits are addictive. We fall into incessant checking of our phones, clicking shit, which is now how more and more these apps are evolving cuz thats what makes money. Little hits throughout the day.

 

almost done.

 

i think however its important not to fall into a “it was better back in my day” attitude. Historically, this is how every old generation felt about a new one or a new trend. Personally new generations and trends start new and innovative ideas. I think the real solution is to be in tune with what happens currently, how it works, and find a way to twist and turn it into what you want; attract the new generation somehow, but if it were easy, everyone would be jack dorsey.

 

 

final thought - one thing i did find interesting and promising was the jack dorsey podcasts recently. At least on the twitter side, he appeared to be very aware of how discourse has essentially died. If nothing else twitter seemed to be genuinely interested i promoting true conversation on its platform and being better at it. In a way it sounded like it was moving toward what forums of old used to be. However i think it will always boil down to this - no mods, no rules, open to everyone = an endless supply of fucking newbs ruining it (ie average joes who are internetting for the first time and dont know how the internet really works, nor the rules of the internet)

 

 

ps. I literally took almost an hour to write this rant

 

 

[Hayabusa]

altho i wonder

 

how much of what we see online today is due to what the general populace shapes, versus how much is made to be the way it is because of its effectiveness to meet a bottom line...

[misteraven]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:25 AM, Hayabusa said:

the problems: the app (and all other social media platforms) are NOT about nor for the users, where forums are. You gotta wonder how a FREE service such as these platforms are some of the most PROFITABLE companies out there? Where is the revenue from? Not users! They dont even take a cut if you make money from THEIR platform! Thats pretty confident! 

This hit me pretty hard. Might be obvious, but dont think its been mentioned or at least not quite so concisely.

 

Though I disagree with what you say later here...

 

On 5/13/2019 at 6:25 AM, Hayabusa said:

I personally dont see long form discussion ever becoming a thing online anymore personally. The mainstream folks that were turned onto the net were done so by the new age of it and were never previously involved in long forums to begin with. The new age kids are coming up in a time where no such discussion ever existed. Its a new wave. 

I think things will likely come full circle. Not to say it'll be a rehash of the early days or take the same form, but I think we're seeing the end of a particular era that has been defined not just by social media, but social media apps on tiny screens. And this isnt to say that people will wake up and throw their smartphones away... Only that I think in general people have largely evolved past the bite sized chunks of content and constraints of those platforms and are realizing they gave up convenience for much more meaningful interactions and experiences and that someone will eventually come along that will provide a solution to this.

 

I heard recently someone in the marketing space say that the worldwide web was dead. That all investments should be made into social, namely IG. I completely disagree with this and in fact think that the fatigue and frustration is bad enough on IG, that we night actually see a resurgence on forums until something better comes along.

 

In any case, appreciate the time you took to compose your thoughts on the subject @Hayabusa

[misteraven]

Someone just sent me this... People waking up - 

 

 

[glorydays]

@misteravenhttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/style/streetwear-hypebeast-survey.html

 

OG brands are waking up also. They realized the futility and stupidity of using "influencers" to up brand "clout"

 

the article interviews some of the more prominent heads in the community.

 

“In the early ’90s, we were all rooted in some sort of subculture,” said Erik Brunetti, the designer behind the label FUCT. “For example, skateboarding or graffiti or punk rock. Versus brands today, they’re not really rooted in any sort of subculture. They just sort of appeared out of nowhere.”

 

they fucking appeared out of nowhere