Weigh In: Has the social media revolution devolved conversation?

[misteraven]

Damn, I have a daughter too. You just fucked it up man. I was blissfully ignoring dots being connected and you killed it.

[diggity]

I didn’t mean it like that, just that I wouldn’t be able it really read the thread if they were around. Does that give you enough of a hall pass?

[seeking]

@diggity yes, you can always find the time if its important enough, but that's my point.... i don't know if this is that important to me anymore. its not a matter of the people, its a matter of logistics and priorities. as i write this i have three tattoos i should be drawing. i have sewing projects I'm neglecting. i need to finish making a leather sheath for a machete and knife i started earlier today. I've got a giant stack of books I've been putting off forever. i'm not sure what exactly transpired in my life, but now if I'm spending time on something that isn't outwardly productive, i stress out. i feel as if I'm just wasting valuable time. which isn't to say this community we built is a waste, its just that i don't have the opportunity i used to....

 

....this all comes back to the constraints of a message board. instagram is easy because you can check it for 2 minutes and pay as little or as much attention as you have time for. i can't randomly scroll through a board while in line at the bank, or when stuck at a stop light. this requires a level of dedication i just can't accommodate. it requires a laptop i never have on me. and i say all of this not to focus on myself, the world doesn't give a shit if i have time for message boards, its just a reiteration of my thoughts on the original question. of how our society and our lives are structured.

 

also, the mail order bride story is so much better than raven is admitting to.

[the.crooked]

A few points from one of the younger but long term members:

1. I think most of us who grew up with this forum are faster at interpreting relevant information than we used to be. It's easier to skim internet writing now for relevant points, content, and points of conflict.

 

2. There's a specific strain of nostalgia that persists through the writing in the forum as it currently stands (specific to Channel 0 and the more off topic arenas) that almost feels redundant. This isn't a knock, just an idiosyncrasy of us attempting to realize/recreate the social structure pre social media that was emergent of the general "energy" that was pervasive within the forum.

 

3. I fear that it will never be as it was. I know it won't. I both am ambivalent towards that reality, and very sad about it. I recognize it as movement, as the only outcome of what was until now, but I also love and miss the intellect here. For all our bullshit, this was a concentrated space of very bright, brilliant, talented, and opinionated people. It was, in the truest sense of the word, a forum of ideas. I have to accept it won't come back to that.

 

Passing thoughts. Passing greetings and updates. Passing experiences and missed connections.

All that to say, wonk saggin, night owls, boogiehands, whodies, etc.

Love this place and these people.


ETA: i may not be sober rn.

Edited June 29, 2018 by the.crooked

[misteraven]

@the.crooked Hey man, been a minute since I've seen. Welcome back!

 

I agree with most of what you've said, but disagree that the best days are behind us or that we're beyond being able to have intelligent people chime in on intelligent discussion. In fact, this thread is proof of that and there's actually quite a few other threads are amazingly interesting and insightful discussions. No doubt many of the people participating are the intelligent OG members you're referencing, but a lot are younger kids that used to just fuck around and LOLZ on here but have since grown up. I also have @6Penniesand @glorydaysto point to as being new members that I know IRL and can vouch for being in career positions that only come when you've elbowed through the crowds and have distinguished yourself. Lastly, I'd also point to Reddit and a ton of other forums that, if anything, are only bigger and better now than they were years ago.

 

I know its a long, slow process, but it literally took this forum half a decade to go from a handful of friends and random people, to a fairly prominent online community. After letting the forum languish for year, honestly I'm amazed it even survived at all. I spent like 2 - 3 weeks before this last relaunch reaching out and promoting and say a 3 fold increase in traffic in that short time frame. Lost a lot of it after being down two weeks for the data migration and relaunch, but if anything, this forum has proven to be resilient. I'm back in the saddle full time and have dedicated myself to rebuilding 12ozProphet as a brand. We're only two days into this new forum and I'm back to catching up on product releases while also waiting to close a huge deal that'll allow for a real power move in regards to the brand and 12ozProphet in general. I have no illusions it'll happen over night or that I can really go head to head with Instagram or Facebook. But likewise, I think the social media fatigue is a real thing and Reddit and all those forums are evidence that a significant number of people are still interested in long form conversations. I believe this new forum, with all its features like the groups section, give 12ozProphet a very real shot at tipping back over and getting to be pretty huge again. It'll still take a lot of time and effort.... It won't be a replica of what it once was, but it'll be freakin cool in its own way and I won't be at all surprised to hear gripes one day that the forum has gotten too big. 

[the.crooked]

I think you're absolutely right, @misteraven.

Truth be told I had just spent roughly 8 hours staring at receipt images for work, and was reasonably drunk and feeling down about the general state of the world last night.

I do think there are specific generational changes in how we now process information itself, but I don't think it's as bleak as I was positioning it last night.

[Fist 666]

You can't step in the same river twice.

 

 

That said, I still really like going to the same spots on the same body of water.

I don't think I have anything profound to add, @seeking pretty well summed up my thoughts as to not even having the want to spend the amount of time on here I used to. I like blasting through, deleting a spam thread, and then perusing a handful of posts, but the idea of spending more than 30 consecutive minutes on here with everything else I have going on seems wholly ridiculous. The only social media I maintain is IG and I'm closer every day to killing that--a big piece of that stems from the fact that I don't want to see/hear other people's bullshit. IG is great for allowing me to skip text, and thus skip a person I think I like's brand of intolerance or phobias or outright stupidity. 

 

The joy I once found in arguing-on-the-internet in places like crossfire or even FB is long gone, with further growing up I've found it harder and harder to separate self proclaimed apolitical people from politically charged opinions, as such I reduce my opinion of someone, and then reduce the amount of time I'm willing to invest in a conversation with them. 

 

All that said to answer the question of the thread title: I think I'm able to be as clear in my thoughts as I am (when I put time to it) because of the amount of energy I spent typing and reading on forums like this. Memes as a response to a complex question/problem have killed conversation, not social media itself.

 

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, Fist 666 said:

All that said to answer the question of the thread title: I think I'm able to be as clear in my thoughts as I am (when I put time to it) because of the amount of energy I spent typing and reading on forums like this. Memes as a response to a complex question/problem have killed conversation, not social media itself.

 

You might be right about the meme part of this comment, but the lines of what even constitutes a meme have been blurred. Social media is largely memes anyways, but even when current news and media platforms use a meme like format to announce important topics or use click bait titles and strive for outrage and other strong reactions so they can pump viewership... Then what the difference?

 

End of the day, I'm still very much of the opinion that social media has cheapened our relationships and is taking huge whacks at killing online discussion.

[Fist 666]

I absolutely agree that our relationships have been cheapened by social media. I interpreted the question to ask if our mere ability to converse has devolved. I think it has. for what I'm positing, "meme" is a picture with words on it, not a more complex definition of patterns in behavior.  I think those interested in true conversation have sought it out, while those who simply value having a platform to yell on have taken to twitter and the like to find their own echo chamber.

[mn1_fuckos]

Social media has given hermits a way to be social without ever having to leave the comfort of their own home. 

 

I’ve met people that will talk with you through messenger but won’t say a word when they see you in person. They need that buffer zone.

 

it’s also wild as fuck how it connects you to completely random strangers 

 

I was walking down the street in downtown Chicago a few years ago and someone walked up to me and said hey man I follow your instagram and they correctly stated my username. 

 

It it turns out we had mutual friends but it opens a wide array of doors to some people you would never have access too as well as people you don’t want to be around 

 

[misteraven]

True indeed... Actually talking to people in real life can be awkward for some people, but really that was the same issue when the telephone was invented. 

 

I still remember in Junior High how girls would be all chatty on the phone and then silent in real life.

 

I do agree that social media has allowed for meeting random people and that's been pretty cool, but then again, we'd already been doing this for years on the forum and truth is, it happened more regularly. Whereas you sort of go out of your way to reach out to people on social and connect, here on the forum, you naturally build stronger relationships because you generally interact, share, ask questions, etc rather than just double click a photo or drop an emoji.

 

What I still like about social and am actively exploring for the forum (also something I've noted about Reddit that sort of spans both social and forum) is a dumb simple way to make this forum super usable on mobile. Yes, this new version is exponentially better than the last in that regard... Far better UI and the reactions thing and mobile image attachments makes it as functional as Instagram in that regard, but its still not quite as streamlined as I'd like or as what I feel people have come to expect. Thing is that dedicated apps are about the only way to really accomplish that and now you're talking massive investments, especially if you're supporting both iOS and Android (thankfully whatever that Windows mobile shit was has since died along with the that weirdo Palm OS thing). It's still on my mind though and am really hoping that if we can get things to the sort of traffic levels we've seen in the past, I might be able to reach out to some people for funding to build out a messenger type platform for 12oz so at least we can get real time alerts and messaging, essentially allowing the mobile version to be a sort of WhatsApp with a slant towards content.

 

Anyhow, that's pretty far off, but point is, this is still about community and communication. building relationships and then having meaningful conversations with like minded people, over compelling content.

[Pharaoh145th]

Peace Party People,

 

I'm back too and will hopefully bring back some others old and new. I'll try not to be an asshole this time.

 

First Challenge... read through these first 5 pages of comments. I used to get on here while slacking at work but I literally have almost zero time these days.

 

 

- DASH

 

Somehow I still remember my  "signature"...

 

"True Masters Respect The Craft"

[+plus+]

This was a really good read. Well thought out comments all around. 

I wanted to add but all the points I wanted to make have been covered.

 

I do think the next hipster thing will be an unplugging of sorts but to what degree I do not know.

Facebook is already for "old people", and Instagram became a bit neutered when the marketing got to it. 

Hell, even Reddit has gotten too big for its britches and with the new site design they might shoot themselves in the foot like "Digg" did back in the day.

 

Reading this thread is refreshing because there are other people that feel the same as I do in regards to the gangbang of social media occurring at the moment.(not to get all "PhONeS aRe BaD") 

but for fucks sake I even checked my snapchat just in case, WHILE I WAS FUCKING TYPING THIS MESSAGE. 

I almost feel a guilt similar to eating fast food when I know I shouldn't, or a hangover when I have work to do. 

 

On a side note all this technology has still kept me in touch with many of yall that I would have lost contact with. 

brb gotta collect shit posts for nonsense thread and dust of my sneaker collection for the shoes thread.

 

[ciste]

Man, where to start...

 

I read through as much of the previous comments as I could. Not only because I have a ridiculous amount of work to get done but because a lot of the same sentiment was being echoed. I don't mean that negatively in any way. I think it's a symptom of the times. There has been a long stretch of reducing the conversation down into sound bytes and headlines. It's difficult for people, myself included to put the time into sitting down and focusing on a lengthy conversation. 

 

Regarding social media, I use Instagram to share with a small group of people that I want to stay connected with. I use it to follow people's work that I like. I use it to sell from time to time. I use it to look at stupid memes that make me laugh. I don't use it to communicate, although, that's how I came to this conversation so I am glad that it happened and can appreciate that it is a medium that can be used for communication.

 

I can't stand Facebook. It epitomizes the headline and sound byte culture we live in. I don't know how many times I've pointed people to correct information after they shared something after only reading the headline. Or, things like reading through an argument saying Obama was a terrible president for playing golf during hurricane Katrina...

 

People don't take the time anymore to invest even in communication. I can't recall a meeting that I've been in where people aren't on their phones. That's in a "professional" setting where you're paid to focus. Social and personal settings are even worse.  

 

It's an interesting personal problem for me. I don't like how technology is consumed but I work in technology and create things that people consume. I have done painful amounts of research on how to create things so that people enjoy using them to the point that they are borderline addictive. I get the audience. 

 

I remember the days of hand made zines. I remember having to go on a hunt to find a copy of Can Control because there were only a few shops around. I just had a conversation about having to make my own fat caps "back in the day". I remember the scarcity of finding graffiti paraphernalia because it was still a sub-culture. That made us hungry for information. That's what made 12oz work so well. We hung out here because it was a wealth of information that we couldn't get instantaneously.

 

The audience today has a hunger for instant gratification. They have a hunger for sound bytes and headlines because they have largely grown up being bombarded by media to the point that they can't consume it all, so they grab little bites here and there. Information and media are available everywhere at all times. Everything comes to you nowadays. We even have UberEats. You can have McDonald's delivered to you. You can have your groceries delivered to you. You can shop at Target and have them load it into your car while you sit on your phone. You don't have to focus on doing anything.

 

The funny/scary thing is, business wants to target this market so badly and the only way to reach them is to penetrate that short attention span with more headlines and sound bytes.

 

Maybe the way to get their attention is to offer them some depth?

 

With all of that being said (not that you read it all ;)), I think it would be great for 12oz to come back. I think some people need a place to have real conversations.

 

Keep it up.

 

 

[misteraven]

@cisteappreciate you taking the time to articulate yourself and expressing that point of view. Amazing to me (though maybe it shouldn’t be), how so many people are feeling similar sentiments. How so many people are unhappy, discontented or frustrated - often not even understanding why - and then stumble on a conversation or a thread like this one and suddenly it becomes clear. 

 

Maybe, I’m over thinking shit, but suspect not. Plenty of people take social media light hearted and still just post pictures of their latest meal, but seems to many more are just stuck in some sort of weird limbo... Not quite living real life and living some unhealthy abrevieted form of online life made up of memes, taps and increasingly outrageous content that can be consumed in a glance. 

[ciste]

@misteraven- "Not quite living real life and living some unhealthy abreviated form of online life" is a good way to put it I think. So much so that it's become a business and a way of life. People get paid based on how many followers they have. You can make money being an "influencer". Many people live accordingly. That little buzz/bing to notify you that you have a new comment/follower/etc is like a cash register nowadays.

 

People do crazy things to get that attention. Often times they hurt themselves or others just for that like.

 

Others who aren't influencing are being influenced and it's a big circle of wtf-ness.  I agree that some people just seem to be a part of it without really even being a part of it. They just consume to consume.

 

Different times.

[SouthsideGoogleGangster]

i got 20 thousand followers on ig and i dont even post shit anymore. i just be lookin at them big ass booties tbh

[misteraven]

7 minutes ago, SouthsideGoogleGangster said:

i got 20 thousand followers on ig and i dont even post shit anymore. i just be lookin at them big ass booties tbh

If not for the lack of all CAPS, I'd swear you were @DA KID MERO

 

LOL!

[SouthsideGoogleGangster]

13 minutes ago, misteraven said:

If not for the lack of all CAPS, I'd swear you were @DA KID MERO

 

LOL!

lol mero is the homie i wish i was doing it big like him

[Sek Fink]

I think instagram graffiti is just a huge zine! 

I can relate to the person who made the comment about time spent on social media vs. time spent actually being productive.

when I'm actually painting i rarely touch my phone at all. Barely stopping to drink or eat as well.

Since graffiti is visual it has found a strange home on instagram. Almost as if IG was tailor made for graf flicks but not really belonging there.

[Humberto]

It has. Wether good or bad depends on the user. For me? Fuck Facebook. Have no use for it. Instagram is starting to get kinda boring. Don’t care about the other outlets. I basically  put IG posts up to keep in touch with Brovas in other towns. Sometimes it’s the easiest way. Who writes letters? Emails, texting, and IG. Good for me. Keepin it basic. I love what’s goin on with those I care about. But don’t need to check every single like or have to comment. If I’m down for u- then u know. All social media to me was a trick to be able to monitor us our habits and our likes and dislikes. Right Mr Zuckerfuck!? I sometimes get sparked and put something up of my art or skating or whatevs but I don’t cling to it like some cats do. No dis. But it can be intruding sometimes. Havin a conversation is like a dying art also. That’s the OG social platform. Havin to actually talk to someone! So much shit talkin and other silly banter comin from people who can’t tell it to ur face. Nothing beats being at a session  or a party and shooting the shit and havin a good time interacting. And when things get heated? Get right to it!

[delv]

What's the feeling on things like Slack becoming much more widespread, not just for work, but for general interests? Reminds of the days of MIRC which kind of lead toward Forums such as 12oz. 

Personally, I'm in a number of slack conversations and I get a lot out of them. 

[~KRYLON2~]

My only real experience with social media was all the way back in the myspace days for about a month. It was basically just to share pictures with people I knew, so it really wasn't like a social thing for me. eventually I got a cell phone and i would just text people photos instead, so much easier. But to be honest I always thought social media is a paradox in a sense that your all by yourself but your still  socializing, if that makes any sense. I still think it's weird when I go out and a see a table full of people, but they are all glued to their phone screens not engaging in any conversation with each other. At that point, what was the point of going out and meeting up in the first place. 

 

 

[misteraven]

17 minutes ago, delv said:

What's the feeling on things like Slack becoming much more widespread, not just for work, but for general interests? Reminds of the days of MIRC which kind of lead toward Forums such as 12oz. 

Personally, I'm in a number of slack conversations and I get a lot out of them. 

I'm familiar with Slack, but have never used it. Can't even keep up with how many networks, apps and methods there are to hit someone up. Ironic part is that nobody is really saying much on any of them from what I've seen. Definitely not seeing too many places like this one where there's ongoing, deep discussions. Plus also has a little fuckery and a way to just *react* to posts if you really don't have much to say.

[delv]

Great thread and great read.

 

A negative of forums for me is that if I want to comment on something from page 2, I need to either be in the right place at the right time to do so or quote it here on page 5. I don't know if this adds or detracts from the conversation?! What are others thoughts?

A Reddit type set up allows me to comment directly on page 2 and engage the OP there.

 

@misteravenLoved hearing about the history of 12oz and the issues you have encountered trying to continue this thing. Thanks for all the hard work, effort and money you've put into it.

Questions for you:

1. If you could go back and change one thing about 12oz, what would it be??

2. Any plans for a mobile app? I use reddit a lot via. Alien Blue and find it great.

3. Reading through your experience, the ups and downs, the stress and the costs, it sounds like you did a bunch of it on your own. Given this is a community, how can we help going forward?

[Joker]

We use Slack at work, which makes sense when you don't want to send a short note as an email, but it's also kind of weird when the person sending you a message is often times the person two seats away from you. Hey Carol... how 'bout you get up from your chair and come say hi instead of asking me where I am with the 3D build on the blah-blah-blah store. 

 

Side note: has anyone else noticed a slight shift in young guns using flip phones? I've been seeing a lot of flip phones lately. It's kinda odd. 

[misteraven]

Out my way, I see more flips than iPhones and lots of people that have neither. Not exactly what you’re referring to, but definitely plenty of people bucking the status quo. 

[T4M*]

I never did like social media in general other than Myspace.  Not that type of person to be like "oh, did you see this on facebook?" A lot of content I've posted (on facebook), people would see it, but not bother to provide feedback on it, however, in real life, people would bring up that content as an excuse to have a conversation,  the fuck? Easily annoyed by this effect, I began searching for an audience to at least look at the material, and give feedback, whether or not it was productive.  Found 12oz and didn't know what I got myself into lol I survived the noob stage, ONLY because there was people on here who would pay attention to what I provided to the table and were willing to back me up when I was being attacked. Immediately,  I felt a connection. Slowly but surely,  I manage to meet people to the point of exchanging real phone numbers and talking on the phone about certain stuff off the 12oz forums. In my situation, when the website went down, I literally had no where else to go. I took some time off the internet to discover myself and once I came back, I notice a lot of people went to facebook, snapchat, etc, still not my vibe.  Instagram caught my attention because i found my audience there. Here, my audience were mainly on the meme pages, dao,  ms paint and any other photoshop activities. As far as my oontz oontz,  not so much. 

 

But even though I found my audience,  there really isn't a whole lot of conversations going on, other than the ones I have with my close friends. It's all about dropping quick responses with emojis and pressing things, convenience . 

 

Southpark made an episode with the hashtag #savethelivingroom,  here we are, finally, with our own hashtag #savethedesktop,  or #savetheconversations. 

[mn1_fuckos]

Back in the oontz and Flickr days I use to live on the fuckin computer. I honestly couldn’t wait to get home from school and hop on to upload my flicks to my photobucket account. So that I could post them here. 

 

I was in nyc for the second time last October and we had just ate and I was tired as fuck from traveling and walking around all day. At the time I had never seen the Apple billboard in Chinatown that Nekst rocked a few times and as we turned the corner I saw it. 

 

Man I was excited like a kid in a candy store. My girl knows about 12oz but doesn’t really understand it. So she didn’t get why I would be so thrilled to see a building in Chinatown. I met her a couple years ago so this was way after the whole graff addiction phase. She met when I was  hanging out with hot rodders and going to car shows not hip hop and graffiti galleries.

 

That day made that shit real to me again and it made me start lurkin on the oontz again. 

 

the nekst flick is stolen but the caption caption is what I posted a couple months back.

 

sorry for the long ramble

[misteraven]

8 minutes ago, mn1_fuckos said:

Back in the oontz and Flickr days I use to live on the fuckin computer. I honestly couldn’t wait to get home from school and hop on to upload my flicks to my photobucket account. So that I could post them here. 

 

I was in nyc for the second time last October and we had just ate and I was tired as fuck from traveling and walking around all day. At the time I had never seen the Apple billboard in Chinatown that Nekst rocked a few times and as we turned the corner I saw it. 

 

Man I was excited like a kid in a candy store. My girl knows about 12oz but doesn’t really understand it. So she didn’t get why I would be so thrilled to see a building in Chinatown. I met her a couple years ago so this was way after the whole graff addiction phase. She met when I was  hanging out with hot rodders and going to car shows not hip hop and graffiti galleries.

 

That day made that shit real to me again and it made me start lurkin on the oontz again. 

 

the nekst flick is stolen but the caption caption is what I posted a couple months back.

 

sorry for the long ramble

Great story man. Love hearing stuff like this. 

 

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