ndv Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 That sounds about Denver. I understand it 600 Sq ft but for that price and being Denver something tells me that's not bad considering cherry creek is right down the street so to speak, and that same place in cherry creek would be around 250k only because its cherry creek. It's vast in Denver. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 31 minutes ago, mr.yuck said: Nah. Be for real, brother. Ain't nobody bringing home $600 a week after taxes saving up a $24k down payment on a house right now. Not the way this economy is set up. It's wild, 5 or 6 years ago you could find big ass historic homes in nice neighborhoods that needed a ton of sweat equity for $50k-$99k usually cash deals. Now you could also find houses in this same price range in the hood. Now the hood houses are starting at a quarter mil while the hood jobs are paying $11! I was laughing with my wife the other day about the city we moved from. It's one of those places that you live there because you made your choices and for what ever reason, thats where you have to live. I saw a house for sale for 475 in that bitch the other day. 475 is definitely a "choose to live somewhere" price. It was weird to see a choose to live price in an ended up here ass city 😂 Maybe I'm out of touch, but there has to be at least some people in Channel Zero who earn more than $21 per hour. It's weird how every time I've dropped a well thought out solid break downs on economics, someone instantly points out there's some unlikely scenario why what I'm saying is nonsense. I said paying rent months in advance wasn't a good look when you could be pocketing interest, and provided a pretty good financial breakdown. Someone chimed in like "yea, but what if you go on a months long bender, at least your rent is paid". I said investing now, to have more later is the way to go, another business tycoon said nah fam, you could be dead in a year anyway so a vacation is a better "investment". I mean I'm not mad, I'm kind of blown away at how people in here legit think about economics. If I said having two $50 dollars bills was better than having one, someone would say the extra weight of the ink & paper wasn't worth it, and some pockets wouldn't be able to hold both bills. This shit is vast, and wild, and cool. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 29 minutes ago, LUGR said: How come they didn’t include any pics of the 1bd 1bth 600 sqft condo?!?! Roaches wouldn't sign the release for their image to be used in real estate advertisements. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 39 minutes ago, mr.yuck said: Nah. Be for real, brother. Ain't nobody bringing home $600 a week after taxes saving up a $24k down payment on a house right now. Not the way this economy is set up. It's wild, 5 or 6 years ago you could find big ass historic homes in nice neighborhoods that needed a ton of sweat equity for $50k-$99k usually cash deals. Now you could also find houses in this same price range in the hood. Now the hood houses are starting at a quarter mil while the hood jobs are paying $11! I was laughing with my wife the other day about the city we moved from. It's one of those places that you live there because you made your choices and for what ever reason, thats where you have to live. I saw a house for sale for 475 in that bitch the other day. 475 is definitely a "choose to live somewhere" price. It was weird to see a choose to live price in an ended up here ass city 😂 Gotta put on the sheisty and hit a lick fam. lolz The whole situation crazed for average joe - for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 @Mercer hella fools dont invest time and energy into their career - Skilled trade like you, or unionized shit - post graduate education is a must to advance. I got a homie that has had 6 jobs since covid haha Another motherfucker I know can only "listen" to books - dude has adult kids who are unemployed living in his rent controlled apartment......dude just got a DUI and his breeze pregnant, he about to turn 45. Meanwhile my cousin who graduated from USC with a Masters In Electrical Engineering pays 2k a month for his athletic club membership and thats nothing to him. Shit is loose wizard - fer shiggidy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just looked up my boys spot who lives in Denver - wild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) this my spot in Silicon Valley - absolutely stupid. Bought the shit for like half 7-8 years ago....this Zillow estimate doesnt include a 1bdr apartment I added a few years back, 500sq ft. Depending on where you stay the market is bananas. Edited March 15 by fat ralphy 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I've heard San Jose prices are the most expensive in all of California.. even more than SF. but then again i guess you're paying for the weather. ... and La Vics taqueria. ... and access to the vietnamese coffee shops. Wonk saggin 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metronome Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I'm kind of jealous you Americans are able to sign long term mortgage agreements. I'd love to have sub 3% locked in for the longevity of the mortgage. I have 1.79% left for another 27 months or so. I'm scrimping every last dollar I have in short term investments to try and stack as much up so when I have to renew so I can knock off a big chunk of the principal before my rate goes up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.yuck Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 7 hours ago, Mercer said: Maybe I'm out of touch, but there has to be at least some people in Channel Zero who earn more than $21 per hour. It's weird how every time I've dropped a well thought out solid break downs on economics, someone instantly points out there's some unlikely scenario why what I'm saying is nonsense. I said paying rent months in advance wasn't a good look when you could be pocketing interest, and provided a pretty good financial breakdown. Someone chimed in like "yea, but what if you go on a months long bender, at least your rent is paid". I said investing now, to have more later is the way to go, another business tycoon said nah fam, you could be dead in a year anyway so a vacation is a better "investment". I mean I'm not mad, I'm kind of blown away at how people in here legit think about economics. If I said having two $50 dollars bills was better than having one, someone would say the extra weight of the ink & paper wasn't worth it, and some pockets wouldn't be able to hold both bills. This shit is vast, and wild, and cool. Hahaha. My man. I'm not arguing against your logic. I'm railing against the practical application of it given current circumstances. But you are more than right about one point that stuck out to me. For all the people that say they are waiting for interest rates to go down, when they do, and people like me raise their asking price, they are going to be stuck paying the same over inflated price with no hope of refinancing down the line. But this does bring up another facet that I haven't done any thinking on. Rents are crazy right now, interest rates are crazy right now, the stock market has entered a new bill run. @Mercerdo you think it might be more beneficial to take the difference between the cost of home ownership and renting and investing that money? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I think the discrepancy in what @Merceris saying and the responses pushing back is that obviously if you’re already an adult and slogging away for $21 an hour, no doubt it’ll be a tougher situation to rectify versus a young adult that’s following a plan like that. Stands to reason, as well as proven out from my own personal experience, that every year that goes by, it becomes increasingly difficult. I think this scenario is similar to the debate on “livable wage”… Reality is that despite what McDonalds might claim on their hiring page, working there is not a career. It is a stepping stone to acquire experience and earn a little money as you do so. It’s a stepping stone. If you end up there as an adult, depending on it to live your life, than clearly you’ve been steady making bad decisions for quite a while. At that point you ended up in a low income “job” versus a “career”, Besides careers having a “career path”, even then you’ll be best served having plans and goals, as well as a certain amount of discipline to not only develop both, but to methodically working towards both. From my point of view, we’re looking at the consequences of decades of dumbing people down and teaching them to be dependent. I’m pretty sure everyone here can relate to the sense of urgency you have to make money when you’re suddenly out of the nest and forced to earn your way versus the oblivious bliss of coming home to your room, dinner and clean laundry when you live at home with your parents. When people are dependent, it puts you at the mercy of whoever is carrying your wait. If you’re a kid, it’s your parents. If you’re an adult, it’s government. Obviously if you’re independently sustaining yourself, you’re largely responsible only to yourself and have the freedom to tell everyone to go fuck. I also believe to avoid more people recognizing that simple truth, is to tangle carrots while also ensuring that they’re all arguing with each other. Anyhow, getting a bit off topic and bordering on turning this into a news section post, but to simply address the theme of the last couple posts… If you are an adult and your options are limited to a $21 hr job, then you kind of fucked up. That doesn’t mean you can buckle down, get your shit together and double time it to make up for lost time. But to wallow in a job, then complain that it’s not enough to live off while waiting on the government to remedy your situation isn’t really much of a plan and the consequences of putting yourself into that situation will have consequences such as not enough money to cover the cost of an adult live. This is to say that you are behind the curve in every way. That’s a sucky spot to be in so instead of complaining, change your situation. That brings us back full circle.. Developing a plan, setting goals and then methodically chasing both. Something we are all supposed to be doing as a mature child, growing into a young adult. So yeah, @Mercer blocked out a pretty straight forward view. The math is simple, even if undoubtedly subject to differences in region when it comes to specific numbers. He’s not saying a kid or young adult can step into it. He’s saying an adult, that’s been conducting themselves as an adult, can manage it. He even broke it out into a progressive scale which obviously is based upon financial success. Again, rooted in having a plan, setting goals and working diligently towards both. Easier for some than others, but all of us or subject to the consequences of not doing it - whether it’s being dependent on someone else to pickup the tab or suffering through what happens when nobody does. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 13 minutes ago, mr.yuck said: Hahaha. My man. I'm not arguing against your logic. I'm railing against the practical application of it given current circumstances. But you are more than right about one point that stuck out to me. For all the people that say they are waiting for interest rates to go down, when they do, and people like me raise their asking price, they are going to be stuck paying the same over inflated price with no hope of refinancing down the line. But this does bring up another facet that I haven't done any thinking on. Rents are crazy right now, interest rates are crazy right now, the stock market has entered a new bill run. @Mercerdo you think it might be more beneficial to take the difference between the cost of home ownership and renting and investing that money? I hear you, it's just thought it was a given these people aren't considering buying a house yet if they're gettin minimum wage they're probably looking to make it to level 2 instead of skip level 2 & 3. I see so many people with a can't do mind set that are in way better positions than I was and so my advice is always geared towards positivity. As far as paying rent instead of owning, it depends. I bought my house 2020 using the cares act, and cashing out some of my 401k to put just 10% down for that very reason. Most of my savings were tied up un crypto, and I knew Bitcoin was about to spike like it does every halvening. Somehow I managed to pull off both thanks to covid. Investing is like that, there's always a better investment in hindsight, and random variables so nothing is ever truly 100%. I'd just say for most people, owning a home will be their best/biggest investment. Playing stocks/crypto/dividends etc. isn't really for most people. I will say the price of my home has almost doubled with just the market, my own home improvement work, and about 10k to contractors over the last 4 years. Even with interest rates back up to 80's levels the market, at least here, is still overpriced with no relief in sight. Honestly, I probably am a little out of touch with people in minimum wageish lines of work. Since I left NYC, everyone I know here either works in fire alarm, IT, is an electrician or something like that. The only other 12oz person I've hung out with in Denver is in 1.5 million dollar crib, with nice whips & classic cars, Mr. Raven is up in Montana building out factories and stuff. So if I see someone struggling it's like yeah, I been there myself, but can't relate anymore breaking through to the other side. I used to lie to myself thinking it's impossible to get ahead when I was out there buying range rovers, while living in a shitbox apartment in the East Village. I just stopped indulging in instant gratification of impulse buys, and looking for long term gratification. I started making moves at work, and saving and investing. So that's the overall message I try to share because that's my truth. Anyone in here can make it if they first believe it's possible, then do the work to get there. I know nothing hurts like the truth, so it can be a little annoying to hear someone telling you it's possible, but at the same time it's also the truth. I'm trying to make Americans, out of American'ts. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Ownership IS investment... whether it's the most profitable is certainly questionable, but buying land/property is certainly safe. I'm just trying to build savings to buy more property to flip. I assume I posted in this thread before, so this may be a repeat post, but I feel blessed (a very loaded word for me) to have what I have, I have earned a lot, and lucked out, too. I've done my best to build a life I don't need to take a vacation from, and my home in the mountains with just one visible neighbor (when the leaves are off) provides me that in many ways. Living urban will never work for me again, I left Denver (Thornton specifically) in 2017. The cost of living will never be worth all the other trade offs that rural living provides. If anyone is still on that $21/hr kick: get a trade, get a license in that trade, find a state with reciprocity to your license, find the up-and-coming city there, and buy acreage 30 minutes from that downtown. (Look at retirement magazines and see where is being advertised to the elderly to move to when Florida sinks). Rates will eventually drop, and if you're licensed and employable when they drop then you can make the power moves. If you're too -whatever- to buckle down with a trade and like Mercer says "trying to skip steps 2 and 3" you probably won't get past step 1, ever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 32 minutes ago, mr.yuck said: Hahaha. My man. I'm not arguing against your logic. I'm railing against the practical application of it given current circumstances. But you are more than right about one point that stuck out to me. For all the people that say they are waiting for interest rates to go down, when they do, and people like me raise their asking price, they are going to be stuck paying the same over inflated price with no hope of refinancing down the line. But this does bring up another facet that I haven't done any thinking on. Rents are crazy right now, interest rates are crazy right now, the stock market has entered a new bill run. @Mercerdo you think it might be more beneficial to take the difference between the cost of home ownership and renting and investing that money? Thinking you can raise your ask simply because interest rates go down isn’t really explaining the situation and isn’t necessarily true. it has been the general rule of thumb in how our system has largely behaved. We see a dynamic right now where there’s a total imbalance, which is the result of lot of things from debasement of our currency to artificially, unrealistically low rates for far too long. Interest rates are down from late last year. Unfortunately it doesn’t come close to being the sub 3 - 4% rates @Mercer got. Fact is that more than 80% of all mortgages nationally are that low. To get people to give those up is all but impossible because the interest savings is profound on a purchase that big for that long. You either have to throw ridiculous money at it or drop rates to within eyesight of those 3 - 4% mortgages. As we sit now, neither is possible. Houses (and most everything) is feeling unaffordable. If values go up even more, that is at odds with compelling anyone to sell a home. To level up, they have to come deep out of pocket. Then you have high interest rates contributing to a significantly higher payment on top of that. This is grossly simplifying but not about people not having enough money. It’s the consequences of government playing stupid games and your money losing its purchasing power. only fix is a major correction and that is going to be painful for most of us. There’s no easy fix at this point to correct the fuckery that’s taken place. This is reflected in how parabolic all the charts have become… Household debt, government debt etc. Now layer in how next year a massive portion of the federal debt comes to term. In the past they’ve refinanced it away. This time refinancing would entail an 2 - 2.5x the interest rate and they are already deep in deficit and struggling to make the interest payments (never mind the principal). Then add in the USA in the midst of losing global reserve status as it feeds off everything from BRICS to crypto and the natural consequences of that. Going to get wild and I’ll predict will have people with “jobs” reminiscing about having a roof over their head, let alone one they own. My two cents. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) @misteravensolid summary and a dismal picture of how things are unfolding but sadly accurate - I saw a stat recently that showed in my area you need to be making around 200k+ to live. @metronomehow does it work for you guys, we do have options here and it can largely depend on how "qualified " a buyer is....either a fixed or an "adjustable" which can fluctuate. The current US rates are between 6-7.5% - which are high but no where near the highest we have seen in the US. Rates were around 18% in the early 80's and only down to around 10% by the end of the decade. Fucking nuts - but again property values were hella lower. I am at a 3.25% fixed currently and when I got in initially it was 2.75% fixed - I had to pay my ex wife out with some equity and had to refinance to do that. I got lucky with the timing. . I am sitting here typing this and thinking goddamn 12oz has matured haha Edited March 15 by fat ralphy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Driving so I’ll respond later, but thought this was awesome,,, 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 shit I need to set up notifications - I must have fucked that up on install 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metronome Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 @fat ralphyI think the biggest difference between our mortgage lending practices is term length. Most Canadian lenders aren’t going longer than 5 years or so, it is possible to go longer but usually you have to sacrifice on rate for that. You can also make your choice here between fixed vs a variable rate, it all depends on the type of person you are and how closely you watch the rate trends. One of the big concerns in the Canadian housing market is supply. The other big one right now is so many home owners are massively over leveraged because they bought in inflated markets (Toronto, Vancouver) with low pre Covid rates and now a lot of those mortgages are coming up for renewal. Most mortgages here will have rules about how much you can pay down your principal per year over your regular payments (mine is 25% for example). I saw the writing on the wall in 2021 when our rates were at their lowest, paid a small penalty to break my mortgage and renegotiated (went from 2.9% down to 1.79) which ended up saving me ~12k in interest. Now I’m at the point where most short term investments are returning well over my mortgage rate so it’s a race against time to stack it up to plunk down when my renewal comes up and you can pay into your principal with no penalty or limits. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndv Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) In other words what @Mercerand @misteravenare saying - do not be Donald 'Pendejo' Bolin when you cash out your crypto. Edited March 15 by ndv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, metronome said: @fat ralphyI think the biggest difference between our mortgage lending practices is term length. Most Canadian lenders aren’t going longer than 5 years or so, it is possible to go longer but usually you have to sacrifice on rate for that. You can also make your choice here between fixed vs a variable rate, it all depends on the type of person you are and how closely you watch the rate trends. One of the big concerns in the Canadian housing market is supply. The other big one right now is so many home owners are massively over leveraged because they bought in inflated markets (Toronto, Vancouver) with low pre Covid rates and now a lot of those mortgages are coming up for renewal. Most mortgages here will have rules about how much you can pay down your principal per year over your regular payments (mine is 25% for example). I saw the writing on the wall in 2021 when our rates were at their lowest, paid a small penalty to break my mortgage and renegotiated (went from 2.9% down to 1.79) which ended up saving me ~12k in interest. Now I’m at the point where most short term investments are returning well over my mortgage rate so it’s a race against time to stack it up to plunk down when my renewal comes up and you can pay into your principal with no penalty or limits. This is wild. Our system is different here. The lenders basically offer a fixed rate, which is contractual from the jump, or a variable rate, which you know what you';re getting into with that. All mortgages are long term though usually 15-30 years, and the mortgage itself is sold between different lenders but the rate in the original fixed rate contract doesn't change. People here will refinance, but only in situations where that will save the borrower/homeowner money. Like if they're at 5% interest, and someone is offering 3% interest. Completely different systems but I'm sure it's due to completely different banking regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUGR Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, metronome said: @fat ralphyI think the biggest difference between our mortgage lending practices is term length. Most Canadian lenders aren’t going longer than 5 years or so, it is possible to go longer but usually you have to sacrifice on rate for that. You can also make your choice here between fixed vs a variable rate, it all depends on the type of person you are and how closely you watch the rate trends. One of the big concerns in the Canadian housing market is supply. The other big one right now is so many home owners are massively over leveraged because they bought in inflated markets (Toronto, Vancouver) with low pre Covid rates and now a lot of those mortgages are coming up for renewal. Most mortgages here will have rules about how much you can pay down your principal per year over your regular payments (mine is 25% for example). I saw the writing on the wall in 2021 when our rates were at their lowest, paid a small penalty to break my mortgage and renegotiated (went from 2.9% down to 1.79) which ended up saving me ~12k in interest. Now I’m at the point where most short term investments are returning well over my mortgage rate so it’s a race against time to stack it up to plunk down when my renewal comes up and you can pay into your principal with no penalty or limits. What short term investments are you rockin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 37 minutes ago, LUGR said: What short term investments are you rockin with? I got a glizzy cart - Comparing @mortonand what we have here in the US is nuts - 30 year mortgage seems insane but for me it was the only viable option especially on single income. Edited March 15 by fat ralphy 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metronome Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, LUGR said: What short term investments are you rockin with? They’re most comparable to a bank bond I guess, we call them a GIC (guaranteed investment certificate). They don’t make a ton of sense when rates are low but they’re returning around 5% right now so I have a bunch of them pooling up and coming to term when my mortgage is up for renewal. These would be separate from my long term investments, just buying these anytime I have a little spare cash. Goal is to be mortgage free asap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.yuck Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 4 hours ago, metronome said: Goal is to be mortgage free asap. Yeah this is for real the way to be. I just peeped the break down of my last statement and it makes me mad as fuck. My mortgage is around $1700 and only $350 of that went to the principle. The rest was taxes and insurance. The insurance is only like $100 a month. I've been told it makes more sense to invest extra money into retirement than to pay off your mortgage early but I can't wrap my head around throwing almost 15k a year at interest, PMI, and taxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.yuck Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 VID_95740415_153954_341.mp4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat ralphy Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 hours ago, mr.yuck said: I just peeped the break down of my last statement and it makes me mad as fuck. My mortgage is around $1700 and only $350 of that went to the principle. I just peeped mine recently too - bro 60% of my monthly goes to interest. Wild. Simply by increasing what you pay monthly ie. paying more than the amount due will save you crazy amounts over the lifetime of the loan. My current monthly is 3,260 - if I pay 3,510 a month I save 45k over the loan. These are the fine points heads need to understand and seem intuitive but like anything you need to put work in to make it work for you. Once my money gets stronger I will be able to increase my additional payment significantly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteraven Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 On mortgages, at least in the USA, interest is stacked at the front of the term and not distributed equally across the term. The interest total is bundled into the mortgage and all of it compounded over time. So between prioritized in such a way for you to service that part first, it cumulative in that the total is compounded. This is why paying extra towards principal has such large effects. Also note that there is no prepayment penalty. That is law at the federal level. So if you can service the principal in its entirely, you only pay interest up to that moment and the rest disappears. The trick here, for those considering paying it off their mortgage quickly, is to look at the bigger picture. If you’re disciplined, it’s all math… If your mortgage is 4%, then can you make your money work for you to return better than that 4%. For example, if a certain investment has shown with a large degree of consistency that it can return 12%, then it would be foolish to pay off your mortgage early to save on 4%. You’d be better served making that investment to net out 8% after eating the interest on your mortgage. Work smarter and harder… 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndv Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Just seen this news story. Kinda crazy considering houston is one of the cheapest cities to live in being the in top 5. https://abc13.com/houston-homeowners-real-estate-2024-space-city-is-riskiest-place-to-own-home-claimguideorg-study/14551564/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUGR Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 3 hours ago, ndv said: Just seen this news story. Kinda crazy considering houston is one of the cheapest cities to live in being the in top 5. https://abc13.com/houston-homeowners-real-estate-2024-space-city-is-riskiest-place-to-own-home-claimguideorg-study/14551564/ Aren’t certain neighborhoods in Houston guaranteed to flood? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndv Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, LUGR said: Aren’t certain neighborhoods in Houston guaranteed to flood? Pretty much. It's a really touchy subject, most people do not want to hear houston not only 29 feet above sea level amd the ground continually sinks, the majority of the third coast is classified as swamp land so its a big reason our infrastructure (mainly roadways) are always in repair. It's a never ending saga here. For the past 20yrs every developer residential and commercial build the foundations up so all existing road ways, neighborhoods and commercial land that are surround by these new developments basically get flooded out. It's just something houston has to live with really no way out. 😕 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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