delv Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) On 7/7/2020 at 10:27 PM, Hua Guofang said: This goes to what I've been pointing towards (maybe in other threads) in that Trump is not the problem, he's the result of having a problem. Populists and Demagogues can only arise when the circumstances are permissive. The big kick up for the US came after things in Iraq really turned to shit - 2006 was the real depth of combat and losses - and then accelerated after 2008 with the GFC. A number of folk who analyse these issues suggest that the bailout of many of the organisations responsible for the GFC and the bonuses for the CEOs who headed those organisations - instead of prosecution - was the final nail. It confirmed that the elite had separated from the governed and that it only supported its own perpetuation. The Australian uptick came about when political parties began replacing leaders mid-term, which happened something like six times by both parties. The UK was Brexit, unsure what's going on in Canada. Hey @hua_guofang I'd love to read more about this. Can you post links or PM me some? Super interesting as someone from down under that is politically curious and involved in exploring democracy locally. Thanks for sharing btw. Edited July 8, 2020 by delv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, delv said: Hey @hua_guofang I'd love to read more about this. Can you post links or PM me some? Super interesting as someone from down under that is politically curious and involved in exploring democracy locally. Thanks for sharing btw. Not meant in a smartarse way, but just google, there is a mountain of stuff on this. file:///C:/Users/barst/AppData/Local/Temp/EXHIBIT%2004.pdf I haven't read that particular report but it's the main one many cite for this issue. Keep in mind though, that many people don't have a nuanced view of what democracy is. They see the political parties bickering like idiots during question time in parliament, they see the revolving door of Prime Ministers and politicians rorting travel costs and shit like that. What they don't often factor into their thinking are the fundamental principles of democracy, such as freedom of expression, freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of movement and things like this. It's doubtful that people have lost faith in these ideals, but more so in political leadership. That's my take, anyway. The problem with this loss in faith is that it opens up the way for populists like Trump, Bolsonaro, Boris, Duterte, etc., to walk in and say "the elite don't care about you, they've fucked the country. But I understand you, I know what you want and I can do it, I'm a strong leader and if you just give me power I will make everything great again as I love the country and I'm just like you". This often goes hand-in-hand with blaming foreigners and immigrants, not being tough with the law and having a very narrow view of what the national interest is (most of time this will focus on the economy and cultural identity). Think Hansonism and Trumpism. Trump is not the problem, he's what happens when you have a problem. Hilary epitomised the privileged elite. She had no central reason to run as president (Trump had MAGA, Hilary just had "because it's my turn and I'm a woman"). When people don't trust and believe in the system anymore it's easy for some one to walk in and give them easy answers and something familiar to clutch onto, like traditional values. That's what populists do, but because they're never actually good at governing, things get worse and they have to shift blame more and more to dodge responsibility and they can do dangerous shit out of desperation. The shit Trump is doing now with the virus and China are perfect examples. He's trying to get positive econ figures in the few months left so he has something to run on. He's willing to risk high fatality rates for short-term gain, just until the election. He's also trying to divert attention to China. Not to say that China isn't free of guilt, the CCP are a fucking scourge. However Trump's not addressing the actual problems, he's just scapegoating so he can try and look like a tough guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said: It's doubtful that people have lost faith in these ideals, but more so in political leadership. Yeah, I was thinking more along these lines, but I was curious to explore more given your initial post. Note: your attachment didn't attach. And yeah, I've heard of google I guess I was more referring to what one might be searching for etc. ie. point a guy in the right direction type thing. 🙂 Thanks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Trying again, here you go: https://apo.org.au/node/208536 https://www.democracy2025.gov.au/documents/Democracy2025-report1.pdf I guess why I suggest searching is that there is actually so much out there on this issue (it's a problem in many democratic countries, as the graph indicates), that it makes it hard to point in any particular direction. The best thing I could do, rather than direct you in any particular way is to advise that you read from reputable sources rather than FB warriors and shit like that. Try and aim for qualified researchers, authoritative orgs like universities or well established think tanks, etc. Lowy Institute does a lot of good work in Australia, that's where I'd start digging locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Thanks mate. Much appreciated. I've been getting involved hyper locally with my council the last year but keen to expand my understanding and horizons of politics and democracy generally. And yeah, I'm not an FB person. My struggle is that I recognise FB bullshit but I'm not educated enough to digest research docs etc. Was hoping for a dumbed down version to help me explore. I'll see what is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Actually, the LOWY stuff is very digestible. Good stuff. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 People protesting police brutality in the streets get the national guard, Trump's mates, who 100% broke the law, get off free. Tell me again how this guy is not THE swamp? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/donald-trump-commutes-long-time-adviser-roger-stone-sentence/12445732 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I studied and lived under the Chinese Communist PArty for a long time and I can't tell you how much Trump's America is starting to resemble that system. He tries to turn the military on protesters and dissenters. He tries to shut down media that is critical of him. Those close to him are allowed to break the law without the consequences normal people face He enriches his own family using the powers of his office His personal accounts are not up for scrutiny People in the government get fired if they don't agree with him He uses the power of his office to financially assist those who support him. He leans his political legitimacy on race and the economy. This is all 100% exactly the same as the Chinese Communist Party. Yet his supporters are such suckers they are so easily conditioned to scream "If AOC/Biden/whoever had their way, they'd take all your freedoms away like Stalin" and shit like that. It really is astounding how alike Trump's America has become like contemporary China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Got a good lol out of me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 A presidential adviser - who just happens to be related to the president, in a case of clear nepotism - is promoting a product that officially endorsed the president's re-election. I think it was @misteraventhat said this presidency has basically dropped all facades and is now just blatantly not giving a fuck and doing whatever it wants*. And the Republican party is not doing a thing about it. @misteravenmade that comment in the context that all govts are the same in terms of corruption. I agree with this, to a point. All govts are corrupt to a degree and do bad shit, the Obama admin was no different. But I do think that the Trump admin has taken this to an astronomical level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 "We are down to Kool-Aid drinkers and next of kin with this administration" Great summary from some dude on TV after he was asked if there was anyone left to tell the President that his latest press conference was not positive for his re-election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'm wondering if they are purposefully trying to lose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hard to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 17 hours ago, delv said: I'm wondering if they are purposefully trying to lose.... I think that they've gone over a cliff. The reasonable folk like Mattis, McMAster, Tillerson, Kelly, Hill, etc. etc. have left the building and all you have left are nutjobs like Navarro, Miller and Kushner influencing an already skewif person like Trump. I'm not sure that they even have the capability to attract the centre anymore and all they can do is double down on their base, essentially recruiting those that are already going to vote for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Hua Guofang said: Hard to disagree I mean he probably spent more time figuring out what he was going to say about this photo perpetuating sensationalism than it took for someone to place some Goya cans on the desk and take that troll of a photo. He spent how much time bitching about a photo of beans when there’s still plenty of injustice and police brutality happening that could be reported. Hell, they could even talk more about the dozens of countries that are protesting their oppressive governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 37 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said: I mean he probably spent more time figuring out what he was going to say about this photo perpetuating sensationalism than it took for someone to place some Goya cans on the desk and take that troll of a photo. He spent how much time bitching about a photo of beans when there’s still plenty of injustice and police brutality happening that could be reported. Hell, they could even talk more about the dozens of countries that are protesting their oppressive governments. You think that the president using the powers of his office to provide financial benefit to those who support him isn't much of thing or just sensationalism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) I think its ridiculous but i also think our country is facing much larger issues that our media should be covering more properly other than Trump doing a free ad to his core base for Goya beans. I don't think anyone that isn't a hardcore Trump fan saw that and thought “man, i’m gonna go clear the fucking shelves and get me some Goya.” edit: i’d even argue that there’s a possibility that the amount of people that will now not buy Goya because Trump did that free promo outweighs those who are going to buy it. Edited July 16, 2020 by abrasivesaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Whether its an effective ad is irrelevant, it is against the law to use public office for personal gain and he is buying (and therefore offereing to buy) public support from private companies by promoting their products: § 2635.702 Use of public office for private gain. An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain, for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity, including nonprofit organizations of which the employee is an officer or member, and persons with whom the employee has or seeks employment or business relations. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/5/2635.702 The president blatantly breaking the law to get re-elected is up there with anything else that is happening in the country. Secondly, it shouldn't be an either-or equation. The media can adequately cover all important issues. You don't have to get put out by this important issue being covered when others aren't. You should just be put out that other issues aren't covered well enough - that doesn't have to come at the cost of not covering the President whoring the office out for re-election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Hua Guofang said: Secondly, it shouldn't be an either-or equation. The media can adequately cover all important issues. You don't have to get put out by this important issue being covered when others aren't. You should just be put out that other issues aren't covered well enough - that doesn't have to come at the cost of not covering the President whoring the office out for re-election. Fair enough, but how much air time was allotted for this discussion as opposed to other topics? I dont watch CNN so i don’t know. 16 hours ago, Hua Guofang said: The president blatantly breaking the law to get re-elected is up there with anything else that is happening in the country. Yes, i agree. But let’s get real, how many people that were on the fence about voting Trump, or not going to vote for him, saw that photo and thought, “Well, shit... I like Goya. Trump likes Goya. Goya likes Trump. I’m voting for Trump.” I feel like it’s focusing on a criminal for jaywalking after they just committed a rape and murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hua Guofang Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Shameless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILZ FILLZ Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Supposedly these are the federal guys Trumpy deployed to PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILZ FILLZ Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Here we go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said: Here we go.... This is bullshit. Fuck delaying an election (they do it plenty up here) I'm not with this either Just be thankful you guys have term limits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILZ FILLZ Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 @Kultssome saying he only tweeted that out to take attention away from these numbers that came out today: https://www.wsj.com/articles/us-economy-gdp-report-second-quarter-coronavirus-11596061406 im not a huge believer in coincidence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said: @Kultssome saying he only tweeted that out to take attention away from these numbers that came out today: https://www.wsj.com/articles/us-economy-gdp-report-second-quarter-coronavirus-11596061406 im not a huge believer in coincidence oh for sure, he’s an expert at reading which way the wind is blowing. the economy was his strongest achievement. that’s all been wiped away. Now, i do think people pushing for everything to stay closed until after the election are just as opportunistic and gross. surprise! no second wave come the fall ( id bank on it) at which point if he loses they can open everything right back up and take credit for the soaring economic numbers that will surely follow. that being said, whole other conversation. both sides are compete shit shows and take us for idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILZ FILLZ Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Kults said: oh for sure, he’s an expert at reading which way the wind is blowing. the economy was his strongest achievement. that’s all been wiped away. Now, i do think people pushing for everything to stay closed until after the election are just as opportunistic and gross. surprise! no second wave come the fall ( id bank on it) at which point if he loses they can open everything right back up and take credit for the soaring economic numbers that will surely follow. that being said, whole other conversation. both sides are compete shit shows and take us for idiots. Need more than two political parties here yeah, ok we have the green party and we have multiple parties on a ballot but until they are invited to debates they are stuck on the outside I like guns and think abortion is ok. neither blue or red align with me 🤷♂️ this election will be the first one since Obama 1 where I actually cast a real vote instead of a protest vote last few yrs I’ve been voting Harambe and Mickey Mouse before that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KILZ FILLZ Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I have a favorite number too, but mine is 3😒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 even after that bussing comment? 😂 gotta check those boxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 It's funny watching them accuse each other: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasivesaint Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 This is a fucking joke. I knew they were gonna do it, but god damn. Fuck this election. I’m out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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