2020 U.S. Election

[Hua Guofang]

10 minutes ago, misteraven said:

This reminds me of a recent conversation on an entirely separate subject...

 

Honest question... Do you really believe that suddenly there’s an energizing swell of people that truly feel this? Or could it be that due to current tech and our ability to be aware and also chime in at near real time, to virtually everything in the civilized world, that people are simple exposed to more nuance and able to react to things that are far outside their real life, day to day realities?

 

Going back to the quote, I’ve come to see America not as being defined by its leadership, but by its people (as it was intended at its inception). If you look at it from that revised point of view, it’s hard to make an argument that it isn’t exceptional. From some of the people I know locally (and no doubt most of you guys likely know locally) through to obvious innovators and brilliant people like Elon Musk, what other country has the ability to steer humanity in as many profound ways and profound directions as the United States? 
 

Not sure man, but seeing a SpaceX launch and then realizing that we’ve commercialized space travel as a first step towards colonizing Mars as anything other than exceptional makes me think people are either hating or not paying attention. 

To chime in:

 

1 - It can be both.

 

2 - I actually agree, and this is why, when there is no doubt that America has done many shitty things around the world and Donald Trump could only ever come to power BECAUSE they system is broken, I still think it's the best bet we have. It's done more good in the world than any other country.

 

It's also why I pay such close attention to what happens over there (not only because America is Austrlaia's #1 ally) but I'd rather the world be lead by the US than any of the other plausible realities.

[misteraven]

🇺🇸

[Fist 666]

20 hours ago, misteraven said:

This reminds me of a recent conversation on an entirely separate subject...

 

Honest question... Do you really believe that suddenly there’s an energizing swell of people that truly feel this? Or could it be that due to current tech and our ability to be aware and also chime in at near real time, to virtually everything in the civilized world, that people are simple exposed to more nuance and able to react to things that are far outside their real life, day to day realities?

 

Going back to the quote, I’ve come to see America not as being defined by its leadership, but by its people (as it was intended at its inception). If you look at it from that revised point of view, it’s hard to make an argument that it isn’t exceptional. From some of the people I know locally (and no doubt most of you guys likely know locally) through to obvious innovators and brilliant people like Elon Musk, what other country has the ability to steer humanity in as many profound ways and profound directions as the United States? 
 

Not sure man, but seeing a SpaceX launch and then realizing that we’ve commercialized space travel as a first step towards colonizing Mars as anything other than exceptional makes me think people are either hating or not paying attention. 

I do think there is a groundswell of this happening. Our position on the global stage as the sort of pinnacle of the enlightenment, the shining city upon the will, the leaders of the free world have all come into question. Not all of it falls to Trump or his time in office, but I feel a majority of it does.

 

But like @Hua Guofangsaid, they aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of political conversation and opinion these days (defined as since the 2016 election) seem like the soccer fans that show up in four year intervals for the Cup or the football fans that show up when their city (or some city they are loosely associated with)  makes it to the super bowl. People who haven't voted, read, or paid attention their entire lives are now experts at being outraged. MSM has certainly made "The Trump Show" into a profitable,  high-ratings reality tv show. But  even among the educated and non-partisan people I know and pay attention to, there is an outright embarrassment for our country. With all the experts he has access to, Trump could have responded to everything better than he has, but his ego and narcissistic approach to everything has done avoidable (maybe irreparable) damage to our country.  Our (our nation's) response to Corona, WHO, Brexit, the EU in general, UN, etc have all diminished our spot on the podium.

 

All of those things can of course be questioned and I'm not defending or arguing for any specific response to them--but some basic tact and a long term plan could make all the difference. Trump's short sighted policies that are announced via twitter without advice from any experts (beyond what he watched on the Fox n Friends that morning) and without any counsel from the experts in the fields he's affecting have made us pitiable. Trump has the ability to ask the advice of any American expert in any field, Musk included, to steer our nation to a position of leadership in the profound ways you're talking about. That single character flaw is possibly the most damaging to his potential success--if he had the humility to defer to experts his legacy/persona/whatever would be perceived in an absolutely more positive light and our national future would be a little less grim.

 

American politicians are part of America's people, unfortunately. Letting Gates, Musk, Bezos, or whoever be labeled as distinctly American or direct results of the American Experiment is generous at best, when ignoring the hundreds of millions of morons that are swallowing/embracing America's fracturing partisanship as Biblical truth, and maybe even prophecy. 

 

The ship hasn't sunk, but it has some holes we need to address before we do...

 

[misteraven]

2 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

I do think there is a groundswell of this happening. Our position on the global stage as the sort of pinnacle of the enlightenment, the shining city upon the will, the leaders of the free world have all come into question. Not all of it falls to Trump or his time in office, but I feel a majority of it does.

My thought is that this has been going on for generations. Clinton was the first president that really seemed to me to tarnish the office. Granted, I’m not old enough to be around for Nixon, but blowjobs in the Oval Office from interns and outright lying (and getting caught lying) to the American people, the obstruction people have since forgotten about into his own inquiry and prosecution, etc... Then following that with Bush Jr and his hokey charm that largely reads as ignorance, coupled with the evil that was Cheney and the obvious cash grab of the second gulf war. Followed by Obama and his disastrous foreign policy, 12 plane loads of cash to Iran, regular probing and harassment of our military forces by hostile nations, etc, etc. 

 

End of the day, they all suck, but not at all surprised that it’s glossed over and Trump gets singled out. He’s the one in office and it’s beyond clear that MSM absolutely hates him for the most part. Was almost as obvious how enamored they were with Obama. 
 

I still feel more than anything else, it’s that everyone is plugged in and also feel that it’s largely engineered to push the general public towards certain positions that facilitate a desired result. 
 

3 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

American politicians are part of America's people, unfortunately. Letting Gates, Musk, Bezos, or whoever be labeled as distinctly American or direct results of the American Experiment is generous at best, when ignoring the hundreds of millions of morons that are swallowing/embracing America's fracturing partisanship as Biblical truth, and maybe even prophecy. 

Perhaps. Probably subjective. I choose to not factor America’s politicians as representative of the American people, as ironic as this statement is considering their reason for being and career. I think politicians that aren’t nearly entirely self serving are the exception, rather than the rule. There’s few groups of people existing in American society as loathsome as politicians and once we move past this hyper partisan decisiveness, perhaps more people will see how worthless they are. I think more and more people are throwing in the towel and only so many times you can shift blame to those across the aisle for why shit is going off the rails or not getting done, before you realize it’s all the same shit and ultimately a zero sum game, played at the expense of the American people. 

[Hua Guofang]

Sorry to harp on, but this is some amazing shit to watch from a distance. If y'all want to see what tyranny looks like as it comes out into the open, this is it (he's also started calling what gets published by media outlets he doesn't like, "illegal"):

 

 

"Send names and events"

 

This is moving towards McCarthy-esque type behaviour.

 

It starts off as hyperbole and shit posting (yes, the Pres. of USA is a shit poster, think on that) but if he is not opposed and his supporters buy into it and give it momentum, it becomes policy.

 

He is saying that anything that is critical of him is illegal.

 

That should seriously worry you.

 

.

[misteraven]

We already have the Patriot Act, NDAA pt 1 and pt 2, etc. 
 

Seeds of tyranny were planted long ago man. This is just more of the same. 
 

Go watch the congressional testimony or various other whistler blower testimony on how Google and crew actually are actively looking to sway elections. Whole thing is a shit show. Trump is just the cherry on top of the garbage heap. 

[Hua Guofang]

Have you got links on that whistleblower testimony? I went down the rabbit hole on that two years back and at that time it was a guy, some one with credibility saying that they were about to release research showing how google was doing it but that paper never ended up being published. People talked about it as if it was fact but there was never any evidence produced. Never heard about congressional testimony on that and I’d like to read it. 

[misteraven]

1 hour ago, Hua Guofang said:

Have you got links on that whistleblower testimony? I went down the rabbit hole on that two years back and at that time it was a guy, some one with credibility saying that they were about to release research showing how google was doing it but that paper never ended up being published. People talked about it as if it was fact but there was never any evidence produced. Never heard about congressional testimony on that and I’d like to read it. 

There's that congressional testimony that was going around a while back. The bit with Ted Cruz was the highlight, but all of it was pretty damning. Project Veritas had a few articles and interviews with Google programmers / executives that were also disturbing, but there's no shortage of that stuff if you really do dig for it. Honestly, you should be able to piece it together from the Cambridge Analytical scandal through to that bit with Ted Cruz. I believe it was Zuck that was testifying before congress that was denying shit that was actually disclosed via patent application the very week he was testifying. I've also heard podcasts with Jack Dorsey were he casually acknowledged shit he later adamantly denied when publicly confronted in interviews. Too lazy to dig that up, but its not hard to find. If I'm not mistaken it might have been a Joe Rogan podcast.

 

That said, the scary part of all this is that the very people we're critically observing and concerned with are the very gatekeepers to the platforms used to distribute the evidence against them. You can see how that's a problem. Kinda like when the FBI investigates themselves and then non-surprisingly concludes there was no wrong doing.

[misteraven]

@Hua Guofanggo back and reread a couple of those weigh in topics on social and privacy. Fairly certain a lot of the videos and stuff you're asking about are probably in them. Fell free to add to those if you come across any others in your search.

[Hua Guofang]

8 hours ago, misteraven said:

@Hua Guofanggo back and reread a couple of those weigh in topics on social and privacy. Fairly certain a lot of the videos and stuff you're asking about are probably in them. Fell free to add to those if you come across any others in your search.

Cool, will do.

[Hua Guofang]

No president in history has had so many of his own appointed staff speak out against him:

 

- Secretary of Defence

- Secretary of State

- National Security Advisor

- Chief of Staff

- Press Secretary

 

The list actually goes on, but just think about those people alone.

[KILZ FILLZ]

Mattis calling him a threat to the constitution is huge. So many of my veteran coworkers would suck mad dogs dick..

 

colin Powell too and I guess even George W...

[Hua Guofang]

Oh yeah, I'm only listing the people that he personally chose to work for him. The list of qualified people, including even the worst president before Trump came along, speaking out against him is just astounding. Most damning for me are the national security professionals. The point being that Trump cares more about winning a second term than he does about the nation's security. Without security, you have nothing.

[Hua Guofang]

Excepts from Bolton's WSJ article today, underlinging by me (sorry, can't post that link either).

 

Pay attention to the bit where THE PRESIDENT'S OWN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR ARGUES THAT THERE ARE GROUNDS FOR REMOVING TRUMP FROM OFFICE:

 

 

Trade matters were handled from day one in a completely chaotic way. Trump's favorite way to proceed was to get small armies of people together, either in the Oval Office or the Roosevelt Room, to argue out these complex, controversial issues. Over and over again, the same issues. Without resolution, or even worse, one outcome one day and a contrary outcome a few days later. The whole thing made my head hurt.

 

In Buenos Aires on Dec. 1, at dinner, Xi began by telling Trump how wonderful he was, laying it on thick. Xi read steadily through note cards, doubtless all of it hashed out arduously in advance. Trump ad-libbed, with no one on the U.S. side knowing what he would say from one minute to the next.

 

One highlight came when Xi said he wanted to work with Trump for six more years, and Trump replied that people were saying that the two-term constitutional limit on presidents should be repealed for him. Xi said the U.S. had too many elections, because he didn't want to switch away from Trump, who nodded approvingly.

 

Trump came close, unilaterally offering that U.S. tariffs would remain at 10% rather than rise to 25%, as he had previously threatened. In exchange, Trump asked merely for some increases in Chinese farm-product purchases, to help with the crucial farm-state vote. If that could be agreed, all the U.S. tariffs would be reduced. It was breathtaking.

 

Trump then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming U.S. presidential election, alluding to China's economic capability and pleading with Xi to ensure he'd win. He stressed the importance of farmers and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. I would print Trump's exact words, but the government's prepublication review process has decided otherwise.

 

Trump's conversations with Xi reflected not only the incoherence in his trade policy but also the confluence in Trump's mind of his own political interests and U.S. national interests. Trump commingled the personal and the national not just on trade questions but across the whole field of national security. I am hard-pressed to identify any significant Trump decision during my White House tenure that wasn't driven by re-election calculations.

 

These and innumerable other similar conversations with Trump formed a pattern of fundamentally unacceptable behavior that eroded the very legitimacy of the presidency. Had Democratic impeachment advocates not been so obsessed with their Ukraine blitzkrieg in 2019, had they taken the time to inquire more systematically about Trump's behavior across his entire foreign policy, the impeachment outcome might well have been different.

 

There was plenty to criticize in Trump's response, starting with the administration's early, relentless assertion that the disease was "contained" and would have little or no economic effect. Trump's reflex to try to talk his way out of anything, even a public-health crisis, only undercut his and the nation's credibility, with his statements looking more like political damage control than responsible public-health advice.

 

 

 

 

The article goes on with a lot of bad shit. Bolton is clearly trying to stop Trump from being re-elected.

 

Bolton should have testified in the impeachment trials. He shouldn't have waited to publish a book or media pieces instead.

 

.

 

 

[abrasivesaint]

Well this is interesting. An upside down red triangle was used by the Nazi’s to identify political prisoners in concentration camps. 
 

Edited June 18, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Hua Guofang]

Saw that today, it is unequivocally a Nazi symbol.

 

What else can you make of that?

[abrasivesaint]

46 minutes ago, Hua Guofang said:

Saw that today, it is unequivocally a Nazi symbol.

 

What else can you make of that?

What i’m curious of is if it’s some statement that Trump’s people are political prisoners in this country, or if it’s it some sort of threat to “Antifa.” 

[abrasivesaint]

Also, the hilariousness of “their radical actions” when the vast majority of unprovoked violence isn’t coming from protestors, but the counter. 
 

and i only say vast majority because i’m sure there’s something out there, but all i can recall at the moment is counter-violence. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Kults]

I’m getting my popcorn ready. The incoming meltdown when he wins again in November is gonna be hilarious 

 

and before anyone hits me with a yOu dOnT cARe... nope i don’t.

 

Can’t wait 

[abrasivesaint]

I dont know man, a couple months ago i would have agreed with you, right now i dont know. I dont think his support is as strong as it was a year ago. 

 

His base is so hardline that they’re anti-American. 

[Kults]

30 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said:

I dont know man, a couple months ago i would have agreed with you, right now i dont know. I dont think his support is as strong as it was a year ago. 

 

His base is so hardline that they’re anti-American. 

I cant act like I really know more than anyone else, just a gut feeling. All this nonsense just had his base get even more entrenched. 

 

Not to mention all this abolish the police talk that the dems seem to be pushing or at the least siding with will be enough to convince moderates to run from the dem party. We won't even mention the gReEn nEw DeAl

 

They had 4 fkn years to come up with a platform. They did anything but. First it was the Russia farce, then the impeachment now this unrest. I really don't see it working out in their favor.

[Kults]

but honestly, hope the MSM keeps running footage from the chaz train wreck. best republican political ad ever 

[where]

And Biden isn’t really that fucking different, it’s like big business is playing 2 hands at the blackjack table, they don’t care as long as Bernard isn't giving the farm away.

 

Showing his true colors. 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/bernie-sanders-absent-as-anti-surveillance-senate-amendment-fails.html

 

[Hua Guofang]

6 hours ago, Kults said:

I cant act like I really know more than anyone else, just a gut feeling. All this nonsense just had his base get even more entrenched. 

 

Not to mention all this abolish the police talk that the dems seem to be pushing or at the least siding with will be enough to convince moderates to run from the dem party. We won't even mention the gReEn nEw DeAl

 

They had 4 fkn years to come up with a platform. They did anything but. First it was the Russia farce, then the impeachment now this unrest. I really don't see it working out in their favor.

I think a lot of this is right; his base is unlikely to shift and everything they are seeing only drives them harder. But I think it also ignores what's happening on the Dems side. Their platform is 'get rid of Trump', and that's enough mobilise the base and then some - 500k more Dems registered for their super-Tuesdays but Reps membership has flatlined. Plus, Trump has lost the middle class white woman vote (so folks are saying), and that was no insignificant the last time around. The worst thing the Dems have to face is that Biden is their guy. Trump's whole presidency is a fucking gaff, but he can get away with it because his following is religious and they'll always make excuses for his behaviour. Unlikely Biden's supporters will stick by him if he drops any serious clangers, though.

 

One thing that everyone has to remember is how useless polling has become over the last decade and that 150 days is a fucking long time in politics.

 

BTW, you do realise that you and the Qanon crowd are the only people left who don't believe the 'Russia farce', right? Even the Republican Party admit that it happened. Why do you hold onto that so hard?

[Hua Guofang]

https://www.axios.com/trump-nsc-russia-director-70b0ae9a-089d-417b-bc08-408f556a6871.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

[abrasivesaint]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/18/john-bolton-urged-to-elaborate-on-trump-erdogan-claims
 

[abrasivesaint]

I vaguely remember arguing with dhabz or someone in a different thread that it’s awfully coincidental that these dealings with Turkey/Kurds/Syria/Russia are awfully in favor of Turkey and Russia and it’s entirely too coincidental Turkey is one of the only spots in the world that Trump has a Trump Tower.. 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[KILZ FILLZ]

So I listen to this podcast called Slow Burn and they are on their fourth season now. This season is all about David Duke and his rise into politic

 

listening to the excerpts from his speeches and rallies... it’s crazy how similar some of the shit is with what Trump says. “If they come at me, they are coming at all of my voters too” , “the people have been waiting for someone like me” , “never been a political campaign as slandered by the media as mine” ...
 

if you haven’t heard of this pod it’s worth a go.
 

Season 1 Watergate

season 2 Clinton / Lewinski

season 3 Tupac / Biggie

season 4 David Duke

 

 

[abrasivesaint]

I’m definitely interested in a series about David Duke. I’ll check it.

[mr.yuck]

This might seem like a rediculous question; Is trump pretty much running uncontested? I dont have tv and I dont do social media. I feel weird that, this late in the game, nobody I know is even talking about the upcoming election.