heavyLox Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 there are rules and there will always be rules. our visual perception forces rules on us for as humans its our nature to categorize our experiences and we do the same thing when sorting out visual information the whole 'no rules' thing is a pipe dream of the naive. The idea is once you know the rules*** of composition, line, volume, color and scale (or what ever your chosen form of expression is) you may then set about breaking them. Art is much like music, it remains interesting to the eye when theres enough information to not alienate the viewer while maintaining enough nuance and surprise to key the eyes stimulated and searching for clues on how to read what the eyes see. Similar to how music works on basic timing and sympathetic chords combined with dissident notes; the sympathetic chords keep us grounded, while the dissidence keeps us listening for what might come next. Which is why experimental music that goes against these principles can be hard to listen to; you have no frame of reference from which to ground yourself I agree with joker that graffiti becomes incestuous and stale if the inspiration is focused inwardly on itself. Its almost impossible to keep ideas fresh when they are culled and recycled from the same source. There are only some many James brown breaks that can be sampled before the music begins to sound all the same. *** Rules. New movements like writing started of unorganized with no accepted set of standards and principles, they were defined as writing evolved. If you look at early writing it was very raw and with out regard for artistic standards, it was its own thing. However as it evolved and people put more thought into it intellectualizing it, consciously or unconsciously, the principles formed and they were unwittingly very much inline with the basic principles of visual communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 well said lox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Wow... ...Seriously, thanks Joker. That means a lot coming from you man. (God, I feel like the teenagers that talk to me in my city now but I don't care.) I really mean it. You and a handful of others like Ouija, Five and Optik always stood out among the masses. I remember looking at your guys' work in the 90's and wishing there were people painting like that in my city (or my state.) I can say that you guys inspired my work a lot but since you have validated it, I don't feel like a rip-off. I used to always want to paint stuff like that large scale but was always concerned about people accusing me of biting styles from the above mentioned. Okay, I'm done jocking now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 being inspired by others... its hard. in a thread being "run" by my inspirations don't know where i'm going with this drunk awesome work though, SB i am thoroughly amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Hell Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 On the rules and breaking of....... I always feel like the best examples of "breaking of the rules" comes from people who busted their asses to master the rules first. Other wise the breaking of said rules is meningless. Also the abstraction becomes no an abstraction at all because it isn't infact abstracting anything. Its just a weird drawing. The reason I will always like Jokers work is because his solid understanding of letters is undeniable. His simples are well balanced and fresh. If you look at his simples and then his abstract letters, alot of the time you can see the exact progression. Point to counter point. Simples to abstracts it's two sides of the same coin. When you dont have that base style to abstract what are you trying to acomplish? How are you abstracting? What are you abstracting? Are you ebing abstract for the sake of weirdness? Out of laziness to not put in the work to have the proper foundation? Are you using "abstract" to justify said laziness? Is there real substance behind the squiggle? Bottom line.....You need cake along with the icing. That said, I do agree with Joker about pushing further and loosening up and letting go to further things, but think about that sentence. Loosening up implies that you were tightly bound to something first. Pushing further implies that you are somewhere now. Letting go implies that you are holding to something. The contrast is the key. Without it it's all just a bunch of talking about how squiggles mean shit and that self expression is limitless. Super BJ, that thing is fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOU Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Lesson noted... Lox and KOH.. Your responses are much appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Lesson noted... Lox and KOH.. Your responses are much appreciated... You said it. Thanks for the well thought responses boys. And Super B. - Well deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakn'da'law Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 there are rules and there will always be rules. our visual perception forces rules on us for as humans its our nature to categorize our experiences and we do the same thing when sorting out visual information the whole 'no rules' thing is a pipe dream of the naive. The idea is once you know the rules*** of composition, line, volume, color and scale (or what ever your chosen form of expression is) you may then set about breaking them. Art is much like music, it remains interesting to the eye when theres enough information to not alienate the viewer while maintaining enough nuance and surprise to key the eyes stimulated and searching for clues on how to read what the eyes see. Similar to how music works on basic timing and sympathetic chords combined with dissident notes; the sympathetic chords keep us grounded, while the dissidence keeps us listening for what might come next. Which is why experimental music that goes against these principles can be hard to listen to; you have no frame of reference from which to ground yourself I agree with joker that graffiti becomes incestuous and stale if the inspiration is focused inwardly on itself. Its almost impossible to keep ideas fresh when they are culled and recycled from the same source. There are only some many James brown breaks that can be sampled before the music begins to sound all the same. *** Rules. New movements like writing started of unorganized with no accepted set of standards and principles, they were defined as writing evolved. If you look at early writing it was very raw and with out regard for artistic standards, it was its own thing. However as it evolved and people put more thought into it intellectualizing it, consciously or unconsciously, the principles formed and they were unwittingly very much inline with the basic principles of visual communication. abstract art that is done with spraypaint can be called graffiti as long as it is used as expression in public space and exhists on its own.....no invitation needed to paint...... i get a lot of criticism for doing an alternative style that most dont see any reference to letters in.....if you know how i paint and you see where i am going with my style and you can pick out the letters from the abstraction then you can see why i do abstract work on trains and walls.....with out permision......which in my mind makes it graffiti. not to mention there are real letters in the artwork and it has evolved from being more str8 laced to being more abstracted. the people bringing in the newer forms and stlyles should not be alienated but more just left to do what they have to contribute....keep the culture growing...there are no rules to how and why people create...creativity is only as confined as you allow it to be. i agree with joker....i am a huge fan of his work and one of the younger generations inspired and ready to contribute. by no means does this mean i jock or rip off the artists before me..........i strive to contribute to what they started and keep people on their toes as the current phase of fr8 graffiti heads backwards in style and trends....its nice to see simple str8 letters that have high impact but its been done to death...........i welcome change and new perspective to the art form/movement. superbojangles...........you cant have my name........hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poesia [ ] T Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow. Alot of responses on this topic. I forgot where i stand on this whole issue cause ive been doing it so long "It just Is". I do agree with what alot of KOH says. Some of our styles are like looking at those 3d images that i never can actually see. But i hear they are cool. But when someone actually sees the actual letters involved within these outlines, they usually are amazed at how defined by actual style they are. That being said, im home early and about to work on my piece. Keep the talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 i do not recall ever meeting anyone who had an 'art is whatever you want it to be' mentallity and didn't completely fucking suck. not saying it applies to you, i have no clue who you are, i'm just sayin. "abstract art that is done with spraypaint can be called graffiti as long as it is used as expression in public space and exhists on its own" that's like saying any game that is played with a ball on a field of grass can be called 'baseball'. i'm not buying it. it might apply if you're trying to impress websters new collegiate, but if you're trying to impress 40 years of writers: FAIL. i used to paint fucking terrible 'abstract' graffiti. i did it before i was on 12oz, before it was 'cool' and before it was an excuse to forgo learning letters. i used to say that what i was doing was an extension of what i had been doing, and to a point it was true, but i was still doing it fucking awfully. i'd paint a big mass that sort of curved in kind of an S shape, and call it an S. it wasn't an S, it was a failure. maybe if i was a better artist i could have pulled it off better, and at the time, i think i really did do some cool stuff, even retrospectively, i had moments of...acceptability. but as a whole, it was shit, as is 99% of 'abstract' graffiti that's done in america. somehow there are a bunch of europeans who are actually doing it fresh, why americans can't find that formula is beyond me, although i'm kind of glad they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirkb Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 where do you even get started for abstracts? ive tried many times but at best theyve been bordering ok and shitty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 where do you even get started for abstracts? ive tried many times but at best theyve been bordering ok and shitty... As some of the above posts read "Start with the fundamentals of art, that way you have something to abstract." I think it comes with age and life experience personally, taking in life around you while developing your skills. When I paint, I think organically, as if my work was alive and growing. Watch the way the world moves and how all things interact in their environment and apply it to your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I don't think I'm gonna make the deadline for this project fellas. I've got things laid out in front me that pay the bills just screaming to be taken care of. I'll be late with my post... apologies all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 as an innocent bystander not participating, only appreciating, i accept your apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyLox Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 pause, illustrator is great to kick around ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Hell Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Nice one Lox!. Here's mine. I spent a few hours drawing Joker rip-off's and feeling frustrated. I think the reason why I stoped even doing "abstract" stuff was because there was so little of it then in the graf world and what there was I was staring at all day long. It got stale and repetitive. So......int to trash they went. I thought since we were discussing going outside of graffiti for influences, and also the journey of abstracting a previously established form I used my particular graffiti lettering style, and for inspiration I've been all about 1940's and 50's animation lately and have collected a few books on the subject. I some Be-BBop Jazz on the turntable, and spent a few hours just soaking up a few particular artists work, and then reading about them and the people and things that influenced them. I realise this isn't all that "abstract" but I think it would be immature and irresponsible to try to achieve the finish product in an abstraction style the first go around. I thought that since it's an exercise, why not take those first few steps into something that could actually be. By basing it off of my version of a particular established regional style I had a solid foundation to abstract. By not looking at graff as the inspiration I had something else here as gas for my engine. I used Three different sized brushes for different effects like the thin, dotted lines in lots of the backgrounds of the UPA toons. For paint I used latex house paint, all of which were mistints with the exception of the black and red which are pantiers touch bucket latex. Also i used pieces of foam brushes as sponges to get a bit of that sponge brush background look on the early UPA cartoons. I hope you guys like it.I had fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirkb Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i dunno if there are rules to postin in here, like you have to be a mod or something but heres one attempt of mine. that grey lookin color is silver...sorry for the low quality phone pic, feel free to delete this post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpo Marx Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 As some of the above posts read "Start with the fundamentals of art, that way you have something to abstract." I think it comes with age and life experience personally, taking in life around you while developing your skills. When I paint, I think organically, as if my work was alive and growing. Watch the way the world moves and how all things interact in their environment and apply it to your work. Big up to that. The best explanation as I believe that would be possible in terms of doing 'abstract' style would be to learn basic art essentials, and particularly with graffiti, letter form, as in know it like the back of your hand, and have structure down cold. All of the dudes in this thread, or the people who do legitimate abstract styles have a mastery of letter form and structure than 90% of shitty writers could only dream of having. That's it, no special trick, learn letters backwards and forwards and learn composition and flow. All the most basic, tedious and undesirable things that you could possibly imagine are what goes into it. Just to reiterate what everyone else said, before you even consider breaking any rules, you ought to make damn sure you know what they are, and you've followed them and have a total understanding of them before you decide to throw them out. You have to earn what you do in a sense. Not to be absolutely weak, but my knowledge of artists is limited, so I'm forced to use Picasso as an example. Before he did his abstract work, and cubism and the like, he was a damn good artist in the basic sense, with portraits, still lifes, all the things we'd consider standard I suppose, but I feel he was especially allowed his work of abstraction because he, himself mastered standard form. On the subject of 'it's art because I say it is' I agree that it should be bullshit. Now, more than ever, someone claiming they're an artist is unbelievably deceptive and stands to do far more harm than good, and allows for the acceptance of pure and total shit from which no actual growth can occur because there's nothing of any value within it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirkb Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 yea im not even nearly on the level of the cats here. im still tryin to focus on my letters. simples get so fukn boring but a boring simple is better than a toy ass wild wannabe...thats why i was askin if theres a mod requirement to post in here. i noticed that pretty much everyone in here is on some legend level shit as far as styles go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Wallbanger Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 ll [ATTACH]73225[/ATTACH] I did some sketches for both "pause" and "timber" that I really liked. Unfortunately, I don't think this one translated as well as I had hoped. The orange drips are Pumpkin Spice AA, which I busted out my second-to-last can of this week. The black is bucket paint that I put into a squirt bottle from my girl's contact lens solution. I thought the squirt bottle would lend itself to a quick, fluid line movement, but I think it really needs a larger surface to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i feel like such an ass, because i havent even started mine. weekends arent good for being productive for me. too much shit going on. ill have it up by tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheWrongWords Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 haha^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poesia [ ] T Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Grog black, painters touch enamel white, montana chrome, montana transparent white, and a cigar. Detail I like the diversity of work. Everyone nice work. The pictures are kinda shitty, i think it looks better in person i actually liked it till i looked over the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth MontgomeryOner Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 what the hell you miss a day or two you miss a lot damn i missed the deadline, it'll be in tomorrow & i love what poesia did to the paper, at first i thought it was vellum ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Holy shit this thread blew up. And there's a ton of amazing shit here... Bojangles, your shit is kicking serious ass, like seeks said, I always knew you were pretty solid, but what I'm seeing here goes beyond that. Joker, just so you know, I am saving up money so that eventually I can commission work from you. I'm completely serious, so please don't stop making artwork. It boggles my mind how the fuck you're not 200 times more famous than you are right now, cause your work is out of control good and incredibly accessible as well. I wanna join in the challenge but I'm already having a tough time getting back into it with a piece of paper and a pencil, let alone wacky materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poesia [ ] T Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 KOH i like this alot. I see no clear resemblance to anyone. Meaning i dont think you really ever did take much away from joker or anyone else. I always thought your line movemnt was distinct from any one of us. I know the Genre started somewhere and we followed that path, but this piece just goes to show how unique each of us is. I had to stare at a couple of times to capture the whole picture. This piece looks more like a work of art than any other so far. I could see this style being taken further. Nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i totally assed out on this one. when i was drunk and making up the rules, my piece was going to be epic. with each day that i procrastinated, it got less and less epic, until eventually it became a summer camp t shirt. i know the word was pause, but i couldnt come up with shit for it. this is for heavylox, who always hates on the fact that i refuse to mix art and graffiti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Anyone want to try abstract landscapes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyLox Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 i did a pause today, i have to finish it up tonight though and im no abstract expert so i might be a poser, but i like what i have so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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