Stan Tookie Williams: founder of the crips

[Some1]

...

[Guest Sparoism]

This isn't the "Jetsons" world we envisioned it to be, is it?

 

I had a COMPLETELY different idea of how things would be.

[Tyler Durden]

 

 

I always wondered what was on the ground.

Things are only going to get worse.

[Guest Sparoism]

Thanks, Shark. You pretty much summed it up.

 

And we aren't any closer to a utopia than we were at any point in history. The have nots are gonna kill/take from the haves until there is a radical change in the fundamental ways we think of each other, not to mention a sea change in the wealth distribution in this society.

 

I have a good job, and I'm still not even getting by. I'm the underdog, too...even though I'm white and educated, unlike a lot of people in the hood. Shit, I LIVE in the hood. That says something about this society, right?

 

I'd like SF1 and Kabar to weigh in on this. Just to REALLY get the debate rolling the way it ought to be.

[Guest Sparoism]

And, symbols, I see you are posting...I'm not mad at you, BTW, just disappointed. You're still all right in my book.

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 13 2005, 04:02 PM

Seriously, symbols...you spent time working in NOLA...you've seen the effects of the society that we live in FIRST HAND. I would have expected a little bit more compassion from someone in your shoes.

Quoted post

 

 

ok, seriously?

 

tookie founded the crips.

he said he didn't kill those people.

i don't know if he did or not.

i do know he was probably a violent sonovabitch at the time of those murders.

and his case is not exactly the best one for pointing out the problems of the death penalty

 

what i think, is that the death penalty is wrong.

it's biased, it's bullshit, it's unethical

it is not a deterrent, it lowers our government and our society to the level of murderers.

 

and also, completely supported by a majority of people in our society.

 

a society which is not commited to educating and raising its youth

 

a thread in channel zero about the death penalty bores me because, i have learned after years on this board, that minds rarely, if ever, change around here.

this place is a lot more like a soapbox than a debate.

and i don't think it will inspire much change in our country's death penalty policies or the way people feel about them

 

start or bump a topic in crossfire for more intelligent responses.

 

 

AND last but not least

katrina was a disastrous act of nature.

although there is plenty of blame to go around on the response front

what happened down there was not an effect of our society.

[Guest Sparoism]

Originally posted by symbols+Dec 13 2005, 12:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (symbols - Dec 13 2005, 12:41 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Sparoism@Dec 13 2005, 04:02 PM

Seriously, symbols...you spent time working in NOLA...you've seen the effects of the society that we live in FIRST HAND. I would have expected a little bit more compassion from someone in your shoes.

Quoted post

 

 

ok, seriously?

 

tookie founded the crips.

he said he didn't kill those people.

i don't know if he did or not.

i do know he was probably a violent sonovabitch at the time of those murders.

and his case is not exactly the best one for pointing out the problems of the death penalty

 

what i think, is that the death penalty is wrong.

it's biased, it's bullshit, it's unethical

it is not a deterrent, it lowers our government and our society to the level of murderers.

 

and also, completely supported by a majority of people in our society.

 

a society which is not commited to educated and raising its youth

 

a thread in channel zero about the death penalty bores me because, i have learned after years on this board, that minds rarely, if ever, change around here.

this place is a lot more like a soapbox than a debate.

and i don't think it will inspire much change in our country's death penalty policies or the way people feel about them

 

start or bump a topic in crossfire for more intelligent responses.

 

 

AND last but not least

katrina was a disastrous act of nature.

although there is plenty of blame to go around on the response front

what happened down there was not an effect of our society.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Okay, that's cool...that's more like the symbols I know.

 

I didn't start the thread, but I wanted to...someone beat me to it. They started it here...and, you can move it, or merge it, if you'd like...I can't.

 

I think it being here means that it's gonna get a lot more attention than it would elsewhere (crossfire) so if it gets more people invoved, then I'm all for that.

 

You're still aces in my book. Not that it makes a difference, or anything, but still...I had to say it. You do a lot more than other people can even hope to do. I ain't mad, and I hope you aren't, either.

 

I also don't think that we should beat each other up over differences of opinion on this...there's bigger battles to be fought in the world on this matter, no doubt.

[dumy]

Originally posted by MEROJUANA@Dec 13 2005, 02:24 PM

"He is our secret weapon to help young African-Americans avoid gangs," Gordon continued. "We want to save his life so he can save the lives of others."

 

WHITE GUY 1: WAIT, WE WANT NIGGERS TO KEEP KILLING EACHOTHER, LETS KILL THIS GUY AND START TONS OF NIGGERIOTING!

 

WHITE GUY 2: EXCELLENT IDEA MR. CAUCUS! *TIPS SAM ADAMS*

 

 

THEY SHOULDNT EXECUTE THIS CAT B. IM TOTALLY AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY, ITS 2005 NIGGA, IT AINT 1345 WHERE YOU FUCK UP AND NIGGAS CHOP YOUR HEAD OFF. THE NIGGAS GONNA DIE ANYWAY, LOOK WHO YOU FUCKING RETARD NIGGAS CHOSE TO BE THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR FUCKING STATE B. ARNOLD FUCKING SCHWARZENEGGER. ARE YOU SERIOUS B? I CANT RESPECT NOTHING COMING OUTTA CALI NO MORE. ESPECIALLY SOME CORNY SHIT LIKE THIS. YOU ALREADY SPENT A GAZILLION DOLLARS KEEPING THE NIGGA IN JAIL AND NOW YOUR GONNA PULL THE PLUG ON HIM? JAIL IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR REHABILITATION AND IF YOU SIT A NIGGA IN A TINY ROOM FOR X AMMOUNT OF TIME HE'S EITHER GONNA GO CRAZY OR REHABILITATE, WHY YOU THINK ALOT OF THESE NIGGAS THAT DO STRETCHES COME OUT ON SOME RELIGIOUS SHIT AND JUST SIT AT HOME AND READ THE BIBLE OR KORAN OR WHATEVER? (I KNOW AT LEAST 5 AND ONE OF EM IS MY UNCLE) IM NOT SAYING A YEAR OR TWO, IM SAYING A NIGGA THAT DID 10-20 JOINTS ISNT GONNA COME OUT AND DO SOME SHIT TO LAND HIM BACK IN JAIL, I KNOW I WOULDNT.

 

 

 

MERO

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some of the illest shit you ever wrote..

[dumy]

aiight Mero just got added to Team Smart

[theGOON]

i'm just wondering if his last meal was fried chicken n grits, w/ a side o' watermelon.... and orange or grape soda........

 

but no really, the death penalty does nothign positive except giving closure to those who were hurt by the crimes--but most often those people would feel the same no matter who died for it,--the person who actually committed the crime or the person who was convicted of the crime...

 

i remember studying the death penalty in my high school soc class and it was appalling. something like 1 in 7 people killed by the death penalty are later proven innocent... i don't know if that stat still holds true, but anything even close to that is horrific. justice? nah, i go for that caesar style. of course, he was tossing in christians half the time simply for their beliefs, but the idea is good.....................................................

[Guest Sparoism]

"AND last but not least

katrina was a disastrous act of nature.

although there is plenty of blame to go around on the response front

what happened down there was not an effect of our society."

 

Yes, I agree...but, what you saw and what I'm talking about both have a lot to do with how matters are getting handled in our "society-at-large".

 

I look at things holistically, so that's where I'm coming from. My "righteous indignation" knows no bounds.

[Guest Sparoism]

Mamerro, I see you in here...you must have an intelligent take on this, one way or the other.]

 

Whoops, there he goes.

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 13 2005, 04:50 PM

I think it being here means that it's gonna get a lot more attention than it would elsewhere (crossfire) so if it gets more people invoved, then I'm all for that.

 

You're still aces in my book. Not that it makes a difference, or anything, but still...I had to say it. You do a lot more than other people can even hope to do. I ain't mad, and I hope you aren't, either.

 

I also don't think that we should beat each other up over differences of opinion on this...there's bigger battles to be fought in the world on this matter, no doubt.

Quoted post

 

 

werd mang.

we're on the same page.

i don't mind disagreeing, i think too many people around here are too quick to decide that someone is pissed off.

i'm never sitting behind my comp getting flustered.

 

intelligence around here is always welcome, difference of opinion or no ;)

 

*off topic alert*

and yeah , katrina was mishandled like a nursemaid on a pirate ship

but don't forget, OUR's and NOLA's GOV'T fucked up.

granted, it was the government we elected, but

OUR SOCIETY has donated millions upon millions of dollars, and plenty of donated time and energy, to trying to fix this thing.

[YOMAJESTY]

YO I'D RATHER DIE ANYWAYS THAT ROT IN JAIL.TOOKIE KNEW THE CONSIQUENCES WHEN HE DID WHAT HE DID.THAT IS PART OF THIS GAME HERE.

F U C K ALL THAT I DONT WANNA DIE NOW TYPE OF BULL S H I T...WHEN HE WAS KILLING ALL THEM PEOPLE HE WASNT THINKING ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS.SO I SAY HE SHOULD DIE TOO.HE DESERVES IT.THIS IS ALL PART OF THE GAME.HIS LIFE IS IN GOD'S HANDS NOW.IF HE REALLY CHANGED HIS LIFE AROUND,WELL GOD ALSO FORGAVE HIM SO HE WILL GO ON AND BE WITH GOD IF THATS THE CASE.THIS IS HOW I SEE IT.

[theGOON]

yomajesty, the only people around here who are allowed to type in all caps are MERO and TURBOCAPSLOCK and MARLBORO (rip?) so you should stop it before you get in the habit

[Tough Love]

I AM WITH SYMBOLS ON THIS ISSUE. Tookie is the last person to be using as an example of how the system fails us, but arguing on here makes no difference. No one changes their tune.

 

what may also interest those who did not know it is this. in states that have the death penalty, and where a jury is involved in a case, those chosen to attend jury duty MUST support the death penalty in order to become memebers of a jury. makes you think doesnt it.

[YOMAJESTY]

Originally posted by theGOON@Dec 13 2005, 03:12 PM

yomajesty, the only people around here who are allowed to type in all caps are MERO and TURBOCAPSLOCK and MARLBORO (rip?) so you should stop it before you get in the habit

Quoted post

 

WHY IS THAT? CHANNEL ZERO RULES OR SOMETHING?WELL THIS IS HOW I LIKE TO TYPE CAN I BE PART OF THIS CAPS LOCK CLICK!!

[theGOON]

that would be clique, and perhaps in time you can, but you must first establish yourself. you see, channel 0 is much like the streets, but cred is much harder to come by son, so you gotta work, and work, maybe slang a little, off a couple people, and then, maybe someday...........

[YOMAJESTY]

WORD! i got u.imma be a real trooper on this one.

[guerillaeye]

Im not saying hes not guilty... but it still sucks. The Terminator placed blame on his book... on the dedications for not staying the exicution, because he dedicated it to Mumia, Malcom X and George... violent BLACK men with stays in prison, and that was the evidence he needed to decide to kill the man. More blood spilling doesnt make it right.

 

There was no DNA to tie him to the scene... only circumstantial evidence. He could have been innocent.

[fermentor666]

You know what the most telling thing about this whole media frenzy is?

 

 

Less than 24 hours after the man was put to death, CNN has no trace of the incident on their frontpage. Distraction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sidenote: The Epoch Times article is exactly what I read this week in their print version.

[Tough Love]

distraction indeeed

does anyone know what the story is with all the poor people those hurricanes displaced? NO Cuz shit aint on the news...now the real trick here is figure out what was going on politically at the same time they tried to side track our attention with the case off tookie

[the_gooch]

Originally posted by beardofzeus+Dec 13 2005, 02:23 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (beardofzeus - Dec 13 2005, 02:23 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Politics&Bullshit@Dec 13 2005, 06:24 AM

FUCK THE DEATH PENALTY

Quoted post

FUCK MURDERERS, RAPISTS, and CHILD MOLESTORS. Some people need to face the consequences of their actions.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

 

well said!

 

let 'em hang!

[HATEBREEDER]

read his books. shooting at storeowners over a hamburger at age 12

or whatever is wild.

 

20 minutes to find a vein/etc for lethal injection? thats

not cool.

[the_gooch]

they should just hang people or shoot them in the head. quick, clean and cheap.

[HATEBREEDER]

YOU ALREADY SPENT A GAZILLION DOLLARS KEEPING THE NIGGA IN JAIL AND NOW YOUR GONNA PULL THE PLUG ON HIM?

[fuse=--action]

With all this debate over whether or not he is really reformed, and people pointing out the fact that he has never accepted responsibility for the killing of those four people, it sounds like we are arguing over a bunch of semantics.

 

Here's the facts:

1. This guy went from thug life to educated in prison.

2. He then proceeded to write literature speaking out against the legacy of violence that he (may or may not have) created.

3. Crips and Bloods: a peace protocol. The laws couldn't have done it.

 

Facts 1 and 2 show that the man obviously cares about why he is in prison. The first one shows a concerted effort on his part to make the change in his life that would have kept him out of prison. The second to make sure others don't end up where he is.

 

The peace protocol and the anti-gang literature are both huge things. I mean if you read the literature and if the protocol is an actual document, you might say to yourself "Anyone could have written this." It may all be common sense. But as my old man always says, "A lot of the time it's not what you know, it's who you know." The government may be putting to death one of the best allies that they have in this war against drugs and violence that, I believe, we are supposed to be fighting on the "home front."

 

All of these things go against the murders that he was convicted for. So just because he doesn't say that he accepts responsibility for the killing of these 4 people, does that mean that he hasn't changed?

 

 

On a side note, anyone on here ever done PCP? Perhaps there is something that we're missing that might be going on in his head?

 

And another thing, did you see the picture of him? Fool didn't necessarily have to do any of this shit by any means. I'm pretty sure he could have gotten by pretty well as Nasty Nate for a long while.

 

 

 

 

-fuse.

[HATEBREEDER]

*edit

[fuse=--action]

Originally posted by HATEBREEDER@Dec 13 2005, 06:21 PM

i dont remember him doing pcp? but its been a bit since i read

anything by him.

Quoted post

 

Yeah, I thought I remembered something about him being on PCP at the time of the murders. Something like that.

 

Thanks for the insight.

[John Birch]

yeah homie was a sherm head... but I usta do pcp back in school. I loved it, but too expensive for me...the only shit kinda like it is like doing special k or smoking highly concentrated salvia extract...

 

 

pcp is hard to get nowadays, at least in my crowd, but mad fun...