Raw fish Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by momentum@Apr 12 2005, 09:47 PM ''abstract expressionism'' is art thats made for yuppies... nah i dunno it does seem like an easy way out,to me anyway. it seems some people that wanna get into art and dont really know in which form yet could look at the works of i dunno lets just say michelangelo,el greco,n.c. wyeth,and frazetta and see everything going on in them and dont have any knowledge of painting yet could be intimidated pretty easy.then they see the works of lets just say picasso,mondrian,and pollack and they seem pretty confident that they could make art like that and since its accepted even embraced that it would be the perfect way of expressing themselves.now there might not seem like theres much wrong with this way of evaluating which way you wanna take your art but i think its a shame that people just bypass the ''genres'' of art that seem more difficult for whatever reasons (being in a rush to create,following a trend,or lack of dedication to discipline)and that if they would just take the time to learn they would see its not as impossible as it seems.it just seems like theres alot more art out there that doesnt seem to have alot of effort or forthought in it. im not accusing anyone on here of anything. as i stated before that im no expert and i myself have a ton to learn, you can never stop learning.i dont know if this rant means anything take it how you will. Quoted post I dont know if part or all of that is in response to what I said, but I think the point I was trying to make was lost either way... to put it into the simplest terms I can, abstract expressionism LOOKS easy, and it looks like any idiot can do it. However, to do it right, and to really end up with something good, that takes time and talent and understanding. Ill be the first to say it, I suck at it. 9 times out of 10 I end up with total crap. At this point, Im not entirely concerned with the final outcome, Im much more interested in the learning process. I put my everything into every canvas, and strugle with each one every step of the way. Most of the time Im not happy with the final outcome, but when its all said and done, I know that I learned something and I can apply it to the next one. Ill say it again, the easiest moves are the hardest to master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phameousONE Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 this thread is all talk, in the last too pages aways oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momentum Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 nah that wasnt in response to anyone just my general opinion or view on the whole ''abstract expressionism'' subject thats been raised this last page.maybe its because over the last couple years i've chosen to learn more complex forms of painting (compared to what i was doing before anyway) that it seems easy to me?in fact just to see if i was putting my foot in my mouth i did a little sketch to see if it was hard now i dont know to what extent your talking about but all i did was take 2 shapes varying in size and arranged em in a rotating order made notes of where color and texture would be and it took me 3 minutes.im not trying to sound cocky, hell it might look like shit if i ever painted it but it didnt seem that hard maybe i myself am missing something. or maybe i have an understanding of it i dunno i might paint it up to see what you guys think.i know everyone on here aren't at the same level as eachother so i'll take that into consideration(from what i've seen on here i'd consider my self in the mid level as far as skill goes on here) maybe im better i cant judge that.... and yes the easiest moves are the hardest to master ...untill you learn the hard moves are harder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 arranging a couple rectangles on paper and jotting down notes about color and texture is not painting a canvas. i could do a gesture and include color codes, but that doesnt mean i painted a portrait, ya know? if you can just knock out a quality canvas that doesnt look cliche or contrived, then my hats off to you. good bad or indifferent, it's rarely easy for me. sometimes i'll get lucky and nail a couple strokes the first time and it'll look exactly how i'd like it to, but that is seldom the case. far more often i quit something half way through because i can't get it how i'd like it and i'd rather give up than finish it half assed. as for the rest of your reply... it seems that you're equating technical ability and complex structure with inherent value....something i completely disagree with. art that 'speaks' to someone, does so regardless of whether it took 500 hours or 5, or whether it looks like god himself painted it, or it was done by a 5 year old. being able to draw means nothing. i went to the sisteen chappel a couple years ago. i walked around and saw all the famous paintings that shaped the art world, blah blah...i wont front, the shit is incredible. it totally made me feel something...but then i'll sit on my couch fliping through my newman book, and i get the exact same feeling. maybe im little more than a goldfish, drawn towards the orange panel because it dispenses food, i dont know, but something in it works for me and i'd like to believe that it's because theres something in it, not just because im too lazy to learn how to paint with oils. i went back a couple pages and looked at the board you posted...now obviously, im going to be biased because thats really not my style at all, but IMO, that was just as cliche/boring as what you probably think of my stuff. the same criticisms you levy on me, i can easily make in return. does that mean im right? of course not, it just means that things are going to be subjective. which isnt to say that im some hippy who believes everything is beautiful, quite the contrary, but you also can't compare apples to oranges. yours takes more technical skill than mine, but your's also takes a hell of a lot less skill than tens of thousands of people posess. does that mean yours is worthless? i can draw better than anything ive seen from diego rivera, does that make me a more talented artist? i do agree that often times people dont push themselves to try different things because they're afraid, but just because someone choses a certain medium, that doesnt necessarily mean they're doing so out of laziness. i'm more than competent at every artistic medium i've ever tried, from ceramics, to drawing, to metalwork, to blah, blah, blah...none of that makes me a good artist though, it just makes me lucky. there are tons of people with alot less natural ability than me, who've done far more than i ever will. to repeat why KOH said earlier, it's just about being honest. thanks to everyone for the discussion. maybe its just me, but an intelligent discussion trumps shitty letters and overspray backgrounds anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momentum Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 i wasnt implying that a sketch was the same as a painting sorry if that came out wrong i was just trying an experiment and thats how it went. and though i do turn towards the more technical side of painting i understand that it doesnt make it worth more or better then ones that arent,that could go vice versa as well. i think that should be obvious to any artist. and as for my work i'll be the first to say its nothing new believe me i know im still trying to figure out where im going with this stuff.i didnt mean people chose what they do out of laziness but out of fear yeah. everything that can be done thats not completely outlandish has been done its just your style that seperates it from the rest whatever type of art you like.i've only been seriously painting for 4 or 5 years now coming from a graff backround so i still got that ''make it big loud and colorful'' attitude towards things, when i painted graff i swayed towards the tech side.maybe thats just what im about ,but im trying to see all sides of things, trying to understand stuff as of right now i dont like. as i come to understand them my views will probibly change a bit cause i know people who are honest about their art put just as much into it as i do.i think i will paint that sketch just to see how i feel about painting something like that maybe i'll be stoked on it.i've been burned out lately anyway so i'll shift it up a bit .i think we're all on the same page as far as our reasons for creating art just have different tastes its refreshing though. but yeah a whole page of discussion is worth more then ''yo i just slopped this together are my letters phat'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 No comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pro_gen18 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Apply your criticisms on art elsewhere. We just want to see talented individuals here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE38 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 awsome shit you guys. i love it all. my newest one. psycho vs. oolong wannabe. heres some of the hubbies: 3ft x 3 ft this ones framed. shitty flicks, sorry. but he's fucking awsome. not a painting, but oh well. i love this one. he gots lots more, ill post later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE38 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 seeking, your metal work if fucking great. 100 kudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE38 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 one more question. i know alot of you sell & ship out paintings to people all over. i was wondering, shipping costs? how much does it cost to ship a simple 16x20 painting? on checked the post office site, it it says around 10 bucks, is this correct? anyone send any paintings which are big, saying 3 ft x 3 ft, and how much would that cost? I've sold a few paintings in the past, and they were local buyers, and a few to some people in california, which i lucked out on because they came to pick them up or had someone to bring it over there. but now i have an interested buyer in CA, who wants me to ship. just wondering. help a sister out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 you're probably better off going with ups ground for over sized items like that. i'm not sure of prices, but im sure if you look at the site you can get an idea, if not, give them a call, they'll hook you up. i've got alot more metal stuff, i just don't have flics of any of it. hopefully soon. my newer stuff also incorporates glass and wood as well. seeks/you smell like pussy wabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE38 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 thanks seeks. i'll be looking forward to seeing your glass/wood/metal artwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revisecmw Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
415tothe707 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 just some backrounds i finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 groovey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYKE1 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Hey DEE, a 16x20" canvas shipped USPS within the USA usually runs about $10.-$12. and I just shipped a 30x40" canvas today to Florida and that cost $25.00 Insured. Hopefully these prices can help give you an Idea of what you are looking to pay for shipping. Loving all the artwork and deep conversation going on in here. Be back with some pics soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw fish Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I post comments very infrequently... I suppose I should thank those of you who have been speaking/posting lately for inspiring me to contribute to what has been an enlightening conversation. At some point in the future, when I am confident enough with my own work, Ill post some flicks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-WiseOne Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 i dont like Rothko, thats the source that comes to mind when peopld with no art talent say " i could just paint sqaures, or splats and sell it for millions" and sup KAY nice canvas.........remember what i said about the accidental drops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Originally posted by DEE38@Apr 13 2005, 04:50 PM heres some of the hubbies: NICE STUFF, i'm really digging this one, just looking at it gives me the urge to go watch "The Wizard of OZ," i really don't know why? AWESOME work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momentum Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 yes dee38 all great stuff especialy the drawing.the one above reminds me of the backrounds to that old courage the cowardly dog show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marker-cb Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 cebe etc crew,5th & wyoming ,philly b&w canvas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
210006 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [attachmentid=12550] [attachmentid=12549] Just some amateur painting.. What do yall think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p@ntyr@ider Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 spiders nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niseNSF Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Originally posted by cheerleader@Apr 12 2005, 03:29 PM heres a collection of my limited edition MS paint art, all are actually being designed as toys now by a local company, should be available for purchase around 12/05 Quoted post this guy is amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$19.78 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I think I seen this baby in my hood... I think that's the baby that stole my chain!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Spunkmeyer Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Did this about a year ago. its a bad pic with the glare from the flash and all, but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momentum Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 ok i shifted shit up a bit on this one, the recent discussion got me interested in trying this style so heres my attempt.and with this attempt i've come to the conclusion... its not that its easier its just less work. meaning all paintings are comprised of shapes just the style i usually do theres alot more shapes to paint,i went about this the same way as i do all my work so it didnt feel any different in terms of building up the backround to foreground if thats how you do it with stuff like this . i dont know if this looks like anything thats been done already i really dont know much about this style.i kinda like it. tell me what you's think i did wrong or right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Artistic styles and movements are made because someone, or a group of someones, decided that the norm just wasn't fun anymore. It no longer fueled them to move forward. So, in my opinion, saying that one style or one movement is for shit seems too easy a way of criticising something you more than likely know very little about. I also feel that dropping shit on an artist you don't care for is rather sloppy as well. Though I know that we're all entitled to our own opinions, so I won't cram this post with how silly you're all being. With that said, I think it's safe to say that even if you don't like an artists work or the movement of certain style of art, chances are you recognize that this persons work sells for more money than any of us will ever see because someone out there saw the soul in their work. Maybe you don't see it, but it's there. Mark Rothko is an easy target, as is Barnett Newman. Both do such "simple" looking work but in reality the work that lead to that is what is important. This is what most of us don't see, though we really should. Antoni Tapies is another example of someone who does fairly simple work but the layers and hours of thought can really be seen in his work. This is what I look at. This is when the process becomes obvious to me. It's not just two blocks of color painted onto a solid background, like so many people think of Mark Rothko's work. There's thought and studies in these works. So look deeper. It's akin to blackbooks. You spend countless hours doing tags or outlines in your books only to drop one or two of these pieces on a wall or train. As writers we know you didn't just come up with that line out of nowhere. We know you took the time to get all the angles just right. The process is what we're missing, and it's the process that is what's important. I know the majorit of you either won't understand or even care what I'm talking about. Then there's the ones who will disagree or say some one-comments. Opinions. I believe that the process is what we should be seeing and not the final product. The final product is the icing on the process cake... so to speak. I can look at a piece by Barnett Newman, say "Mitternacht blau"... and what appears to be a black canvas with a light blue line down the right hand side is much more. That black color is deep dark blue. Layers and layers of deep dark blue and countless other colors. The thought process that must have went into those layers and when to stop would kill most of us. Yet this guy went on and on for months to create what looks like one color with a line going through it. It's process of reaching that point... I'm telling you. Personally I'm a fan of Constructivism and Modernism. I haven't really decided why I like these movements but I do. I get the most out of them as far as thought provoking is concerned. Abstract Expressionism is not an easy way out... though if you want to believe that, go ahead. Same could be said about all these kids copying everything Barry McGee does, with the drips and buff marks. He has single-handedly changed the graphic design world with the extended pressing of a spraycan nozzle. (side note: the first time I see a writer doing harlequin print as a background, beside Mr. McGee... I'm going to scream) Abstract is the mind-numbing process of knowing what to leave out. This may sound simple and easy but if you try it you'll see that it's not as easy as you think. It may come out right by you're standards but chances are, it's way off. There's a definite science to abstract painting and it's about as difficult as any other form of art. In regards to abstract expressionist inspired Graffiti... that is a whole 'nother story. A challenge that I love but that I also despise. Again, if you think it's easy, have at it. I say simples and wild styles are easier. I doubt I really covered anything in all that pointless rambling but I laid it down anyway. I think we should be mindful of what artists go through to reach that point of noteriety. Some get there rather easily and some struggle to their deathbed. Either way, if they get the fame... it's desreved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw fish Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 amen joker, amen. you said everything I was trying to say and couldnt find the words for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadpig Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 i've sorta been following what's been going on in this thread. after hearing some of you guys mentioning mark rothko, i decided to do a google for myself. i've never heard of him before, so i wanted to see some of his work for myself. i stumbled on this website which gave me a lil info on understanding abstract art. http://www.harley.com/art/abstract-art/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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