the LOST appreciation thread!

[watson]

[El Mamerro]

I appear to be in the minority here, but I found the finale to be enormously satisfying. All the little mysteries and details about the island and plot devices seemed to be completely marginal and secondary than watching that stunning resolution for all the characters.

 

I no longer really care about the unsolved mysteries of the island, and I'm perfectly happy to move on without ever knowing them.

[ohnoone]

thats what everyone who liked the finale keeps saying.. and i guess that makes sense if you liked the characters. i personally hated most of them, and found their melodrama practically unbearable a lot of the time. what kept me watching was the mystery of the island itself, and for them to build this huge question mark on a pile of red herrings and then just leave it hanging for the sake of character resolution. i dont know. i mean everyone dies and lives happy together in heaven. great. thats not much of an ending. i mean its practically a given.

 

the show could have been half the length it was and had that ending. the idea that all these crazy things that happened to them just served to bring them together and dont worry about the whys or hows just seems like a cheap fucking cop out. six feet under did the everybody dies ending the right way. to me, this just seemed to be a way for the creators to get around swearing that they werent in purgatory the whole time.

[the_gooch]

well, i think the story was about the characters all along, the main people we knew from day one and the few that were added on as we went along. so for that reason i found the end satisfying.

 

the island, the mythology, the rest of it was the stage the players were set on. the island is probably still there being protected by whoever, the mythology was all relevant, etc... i was just expecting some sort of an ending involving that.

[shameless self promotion]

I watched all the seasons last year in preparation for this. On a tip that the show was crazy awesome. While entertaining it left alot to be desired in the end. Bummer.

 

 

Back to Breaking Bad.

[El Mamerro]

to me, this just seemed to be a way for the creators to get around swearing that they werent in purgatory the whole time.

 

That is certainly a possibility, but to be honest, I was always kinda fond about that idea. I was secretly bummed when the creators denied that theory, in the same way I was bummed that the smoke monster was not a nanobot cloud (cause that would've been awesome).

 

Whatever the case, they played it out tastefully, and even if you want to interpret it the big copout way, with this being everything in Jack's head as he died from the plane crash (why not?)... it still feels elegant and well accomplished.

 

There's no doubt that the mystery of the island and DHARMA and whatnot was supremely fascinating, and what I loved best about the show, but the fact is, if the characters weren't interesting (note: interesting ≠ likeable) it would have been a piece of shit show regardless of cool mystery. That Flash Forward show that fizzled was based on a very cool premise, and offered riveting mystery, but the characters sucked dick and you couldn't muster enough giveashitness to follow through. Lost had that because it was always interesting to see the characters react to a mysterious situation, and was always very gratifying to learn how the baggage they carried as people had a hand in them making the decisions they took. That constant parallel story throughout every season, spent 100% on examining character, made an interesting mystery story into a fascinating one. I think people who think the island mystery is interesting regardless of character is fooling themselves a bit, but that's just me.

 

Lost's best episodes swung for both the heart and the brain, like those episodes when Desmond began to experience the time displacements in season 3. This finale skewed for the heart in a big way, and while I missed brain diddling a little bit, I felt the brunt of it right to the chest, no homo.

[ohnoone]

valid points.

 

lets talk about something cooler. like those axiotron notebook things. how do you get the mac osx on it if its not a mac product. i sent you a pm about it forever ago but it probably got lost in the shuffle about krink and whatnot cause youre a mod.

[`Melinoe]

not that this is really any valid but I loved the ending...made me shed a few tears.

 

I also love how you can just kind of add up other clues to keep you going on what the real plot was.

 

Good job lost people.

 

 

*just had to show the dog lie down with him as hes dying...just haaaad to

[shameless self promotion]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLT!!

[watson]

VINCENT

[watson]

apparently this was written by one of the writers to help clarify things

not sure about how true that is but it's pretty good

 

 

First ...

The Island:

 

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force, MIB, that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

 

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

 

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

 

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.

 

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Locke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

 

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

 

Now...

 

Sideways World:

 

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us during "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

 

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

 

It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

 

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosaic.

 

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

 

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the church -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's partner, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

 

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to atone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

 

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

 

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once wavered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

 

 

 

also...

 

VINCENT FAN CLUB ALL DAY

[gasfacevictm]

That makes me feel a little bit better, but I'm still not satisfied.

[Drue_Down]

That answered nothing but the obvious.

[gasfacevictm]

Fuck, you're right.

Long winded explanation bored me into thinking I was reading something helpful.

[detroit red]

basically they just leave a lot of questions unanswered to the viewers to interpret. (real wack)

some say... genius.

some say... uninspired.

 

i just want to know what happened to vincent. is dude still pissing on trees, holding the island down?

[shameless self promotion]

[karmatikal]

what a fucking lame ending. They say Jack imagined it all? then I read that long statement and it says the island is real? how can both be true? LAME

[Drue_Down]

Nobody said Jack imagined it all.

It all really happened.

[shameless self promotion]

The island was a giant magnet.

 

 

ICP knew whats up.

[IOU]

I never even watched the show(just might now), but they did a good job fucking y'all up. I think it's nice to see a show not just wrap it up, so you can digest it and shit it out.

[R@ndomH3ro]

:clap.gif:

[`Melinoe]

what a fucking lame ending. They say Jack imagined it all? then I read that long statement and it says the island is real? how can both be true? LAME

If you're implying that all of what happened was what jack saw (in his imagination) before he actually died, its wrooong. (obviously)

 

basically they just leave a lot of questions unanswered to the viewers to interpret. (real wack)

some say... genius.

some say... uninspired.

 

i just want to know what happened to vincent. is dude still pissing on trees, holding the island down?

 

 

Wack? Yeah right. I think they were pretty clever to end it with some questions unaswered or unclear. Its like they shot this huge gun only for it to shoot out a flag that says "bang"

[watson]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

 

 

unanswered lost questions

[projetmayhem]

Ok so Richard was Jacobs right hand man, right?

 

And Ben was the leader of the others after the purge, and was supposedly getting his commands from Jacob which was actually the MIB, since Ben never saw Jacob.? right?

 

So why didnt Jacob tell Richard it wasnt him/ why didnt Richard know it wasn't him?!

 

Do I have it all wrong?

[chopsticks]

I watched the first 2 series of Lost, never saw any others. Watching the last episode right now, I'm suprised that theres alot of the same people in it as the first series.

[the_gooch]

Ok so Richard was Jacobs right hand man, right?

 

And Ben was the leader of the others after the purge, and was supposedly getting his commands from Jacob which was actually the MIB, since Ben never saw Jacob.? right?

 

So why didnt Jacob tell Richard it wasnt him/ why didnt Richard know it wasn't him?!

 

Do I have it all wrong?

 

 

yes, richard was his right hand man.

 

yes and no. ben was the leader after the purge. richard acted as the liaison between ben and jacob. ben was getting lists from jacob, but MIB was influencing and pushing ben in other ways. the best example that i know of (if the only one) was his mother in the jungle when he was a boy. other than that, i don't think they ever showed anything else. and again, like many other things, it's implied and left to our imaginations.

[ohnoone]

remember when someone said like yesterday that some fan would make a list of all the unanswered questions. hahahaha

 

not that i expected these to all be answered in the finale, but it points to a larger problem in my opinion.

[Drue_Down]

yeah we remember, that video was posted 4 posts above yours, you non witty bastard.

[ohnoone]

[Organic Therapy]

I'm not reading any of this, but I've begun watching season one and so far it's tight.