discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[The Hater]

If I were to become a Muslim, would I have to call god Allah? I like Islam's ideals, I'm just not too fond of the Arabic cuture that it was born out of too much. Plus, God is beyond everything, so wouldn't ascribing it a name be limiting it? And I thought in the Koran he had 92 names... The Hebrews believe god has 72 names. The Hindu's believe he has an infinite amount of names.

[ERIZENO]

Originally posted by Dawood+Dec 3 2005, 02:38 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Dec 3 2005, 02:38 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ERIZENO@Dec 2 2005, 06:46 PM

This shit is still going ?? WTF

 

Cracked ass .... I dig what you had to add.

--fear of the unknown is one of the hardest parts of human existence.

 

It frustrates me to no end that people cant let go of the bed time stories of centuries ago ... and now cling to them like they are the law, question the people and they have to question themselves and then the defenses come on strong.

It just makes me sad !!!!

Quoted post

 

If you could see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "If only you would send us back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!" (Al-An'am 6:27)

 

So they deny with ungratefulness Allâh's Favours which We have bestowed on them! Then enjoy yourselves during your short stay (in this world), but you will come to know (with regrets). (An-Nahl 16:55)

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Thanks for telling me I'm dammed based on my words with no knowledge of my actions towards others.

 

Spirituality is a beautiful thing and Religion is what fucks it up.

 

Your never ceasing refusal to see anything other than life through your book is pathetic!!!!

No one knows the truth … so don’t act like your faith in the words of man (you feel is from Allah) proves anything. Only way to find out is die, Good luck to you when you cross that bridge.

[Dawood]

I don't believe in luck. Luck makes it seem haphazard , like something just "happened" with no purpose. I do think there is good and bad fortune based upon Allah's will. Some people say "karma" or what goes around comes around. I beleive that , but I don't beleive things are just coming around all by themselves or that some leprachaun is making a wish for me.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by dowmagik@Dec 9 2005, 04:58 PM

nevermind...youre so fucking brain washed it isnt even funny.

Quoted post

 

Ha, Ha, ok, just be truthful and say that you can't disprove the Qurans approval. that would be better for you.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by ERIZENO+Dec 10 2005, 12:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ERIZENO - Dec 10 2005, 12:40 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Dawood@Dec 3 2005, 02:38 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-ERIZENO@Dec 2 2005, 06:46 PM

This shit is still going ?? WTF

 

Cracked ass .... I dig what you had to add.

--fear of the unknown is one of the hardest parts of human existence.

 

It frustrates me to no end that people cant let go of the bed time stories of centuries ago ... and now cling to them like they are the law, question the people and they have to question themselves and then the defenses come on strong.

It just makes me sad !!!!

Quoted post

 

If you could see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "If only you would send us back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!" (Al-An'am 6:27)

 

So they deny with ungratefulness Allâh's Favours which We have bestowed on them! Then enjoy yourselves during your short stay (in this world), but you will come to know (with regrets). (An-Nahl 16:55)

Quoted post

 

Thanks for telling me I'm dammed based on my words with no knowledge of my actions towards others.

 

Spirituality is a beautiful thing and Religion is what fucks it up.

 

Your never ceasing refusal to see anything other than life through your book is pathetic!!!!

No one knows the truth … so don’t act like your faith in the words of man (you feel is from Allah) proves anything. Only way to find out is die, Good luck to you when you cross that bridge.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Nobody said you are damned,

Listen , here it goes. None of us knows what condition we'll die in. You could die as a muslim , beleiving in Allah , so how could I say you are damned? I don't know what condition I will die in either. And you are right none of us knows the truth until we die, thats absolutely true, I see death as the ultimate certainty, at that point we'll know. Only Allah knows the unseen. All I was doing was warning (myself) and you about the strong possibility of hell for the ones who disobey God.Death is inevitable. I would rather be prepared to meet my Lord with sincerety proper beleif and good deeds , not with arrogance or worship to other Gods. If there is no God ,or Islam was wrong (not that I think that is possible) But hypothetically speaking , what did I lose? Islam teaches people to be upright , honest , modest , brave , sincere , humble , good to our parents , neighbors , children , wives , It honors people and encourages people to live together in goodness all while beleiving that there is a higher power that we have to answer to , thus making us responsible or our actions. So what did I lose? what do you have to lose by being a muslim? Weigh that with what you have to lose by being a non muslim. It's a no brainer.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by The Hater@Dec 9 2005, 06:13 PM

If I were to become a Muslim, would I have to call god Allah? I like Islam's ideals, I'm just not too fond of the Arabic cuture that it was born out of too much. Plus, God is beyond everything, so wouldn't ascribing it a name be limiting it? And I thought in the Koran he had 92 names... The Hebrews believe god has 72 names. The Hindu's believe he has an infinite amount of names.

Quoted post

 

Actually, The term Allah comes from the Arabic word Elah which means "God" when you add the "A" sound before "Elah" it changes the meaning of the word from GOD to mean "the god" or "the only true God" So , it's just a language thing. If you were born in Syria , you'd speak Arabic, don't sweat it, It's a small thing...See, I still speak english, bro. And as far as the God being beyond everything, well, Everything has a name. Why not Allah? Why would the one who created you for a purpose not even tell you his name? Anyway, there is a prophetic tradition that says Allah has 99 names. Allah has many more names but he has only revealed 99 to us. The names and attributes describe Allah (so that we can know our God better) for instance he is "the all knower" "the most high" "the most merciful" "the owner of the day of resurrection" "the one free from all imperfections" etc. etc. and there are many more.

[Stereotype V.001]

Some relevant quotes from the Qu'ran I thought I would share...

 

Koran 52:24

Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls

well-guarded.

 

Koran 56:17

Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

 

Koran 52.24

And there shall wait on them [the Muslim men] young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."

 

Koran 76.19

They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders."

 

Below is the poem, "Perfumed Garden" by Abu Nuwas:

 

O the joy of sodomy!

So now be sodomites, you Arabs.

Turn not away from it--

therein is wondrous pleasure.

 

Take some coy lad with kiss-curls

twisting on his temple

and ride as he stands like some gazelle

standing to her mate.

 

A lad whom all can see girt with sword

and belt not like your whore who has

to go veiled.

 

Make for smooth-faced boys and do your

very best to mount them, for women are

the mounts of the devils

 

:love2: :love2:

[Dawood]

Ok, every once in a while some ignoramus will come in this thread and say something that really tries my patience. In the past I've gotten really upset because In my day to day dealing with people, Noboody would actually say something like this to me. Before I was a muslim , I had absolutely no patience with people and I would have beaten someone severely for something as trivial as drawing a line through my name on a wall. Since I've become muslim (5and a half years ago) I've learned to be patient and deal justly with people and give them the benefit of the doubt. I've also learned to respect people and in turn people will respect me for it. Of course not everybody is like that. Some people need to be the class clown and make jokes. Well jokes are ok, it's good to enjoy a laugh. But I mentioned before stereotype, on this very same thread that I don't joke about My religion. Now, i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you forgot, well a reminder is always a beneficial thing, and I'm here to remind you that I don't joke about my religion. Next time you feel the need to make comments like that, call up one of your homeboys who is into that kind of thing you were talking about and have a good laugh together. Just keep that mess away from me. thanks.

 

and for anyone who wants to check, you can go to http://www.thenoblequran.com and see for yourself stereotypes

misquoting of the quran.

 

 

And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls. (At-Tur 52:24)

 

this is talking about the women in paradise (not men) as you put in quotes. Don't be a fool.

[Stereotype V.001]

Yea, the Abu Nuwas poem wasn't actually part of the Koran....just out of curiosity, where does it say that specific quote is directed towards woman? Pedophilia is pretty common in the sandbox, its actually legal to marry a 6 year or older girl in Iran(might be 8 y/o). Not trying to offend btw.

 

Dawood- are you one of the soul brothers who found Islam in the joint, or a former secular Arab who found Islam later on in life?

 

Sala`m aleikom!

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 11 2005, 08:36 PM

Yea, the Abu Nuwas poem wasn't actually part of the Koran....just out of curiosity, where does it say that specific quote is directed towards woman? Pedophilia is pretty common in the sandbox, its actually legal to marry a 6 year or older girl in Iran(might be 8 y/o). Not trying to offend btw.

 

Dawood- are you one of the soul brothers who found Islam in the joint, or a former secular Arab who found Islam later on in life?

 

Sala`m aleikom!

Quoted post

 

about the verses being directed toward women, this is something well known, that this will be one of the rewards of the women in paradise.

I usually use tafsir.com to get the explanation of the verses. This is an authentic quran explanation site that gets it's information from agreed upon sources. (by the scholars of Islam) But it's down right now, so I can't quote it for you from there. I'll try to get it from another source.

And as for pedophilia being pretty common overseas, well, this is something I've been seeing in media lately and in different information sources, but I'm suspicious of most information sources that are tied to this greasy agenda driven media machine , so, I'd have to find out first hand to verify.

 

I don't know much about Iran or their ideas, I do know that the scholars of Islam had declared khomeini to be a non muslim because of his heretical beleifs.

 

Another aspect to look at is social interaction. Here in America, generally people are regarded as "adults" at 18 or so. Why? mostly because we , as Americans have placed this stigma on eachother, for whatever reason. so, psychologically , people begin to develop according to their expectations (although when I was 12 , mostly every 12 year old I knew was sexually active)

In the middle east it is widely accepted that once a person reaches puberty, this is a physical sign that this person is ready for marriage (and arabs generally will marry younger than Americans) Do people exploit this? of course , are there situations where even a young, pubescent woman should not be married because of her lack of maturity, of course. But, we have to understand that when a person hits puberty , this is a sign of maturity, Our minds don't always develop as fast as our bodies do, especially in a place like America that encourages people to "sow your wild outs" and "explore the field" and these type of things. Well, In muslim countries (even better, In Islam) promiscuity and sex outside of marriage is viewed as a big no, no (to say the least) and there are hundreds or more reasons why. So marriage early is encouraged so people won't fall into promiscuity and "playing the field" which is unheard of in muslim circles. To me, Marriage that early doesn't sound strange (not 6 or 8 but at puberty time), because, most of the people reading this thread were probably getting their lil groove on at anywhere from 12-18 years old. Why? because that's when you start getting horny (for lack of a better term) So what's the solution for a problem like that in a non promiscuous society? Marriage of course. That way the families can teach and guide the new couple how to deal with eachother properly , etc, rather than having to sneak out late at night and climb through the window hoping ole girl down the streets pops doesn't catch you doing the nasty with his little girl.

Now I can't speak on that 6 year old stuff you were talking about in Iran, that sounds crazy, but once she hits puberty, especially in a society that runs like that , I see absolutely nothing wrong with a young girl being married to a man older than her as long as she is in agreement with it. I'm not talking about these crazy loopies who marry their daughters off against their will for 10 goats and flock of chickens . A guy that would do something like that is like a pimp. And Islam does not allow that , as a matter of fact, One of the things people say to slander Islam is that the men will marry their daughters off for a dowry (basically to get paid) This is a practice that goes against Islam, because the dowry is for the woman, not her father.

sorry for being long winded , I just wanted to clear that up.

 

and for your question about me.I accepted Islam while I was in the most successful period of my life (as far as worldly things go) I wasn't in jail, I had my own crib, dough, girls around, a lil whip to get my zoom on, I used to be a tattoo artist. I had people knocking down my door to get work. Every weekend I was booked and was clockin' cheeze. Not to mention the weekday. money , parties, whatever. I'm not going into details, but when Islam reached me...I knew it was the truth. (btw , I'm not Arab) I became muslim and eventually stopped all that nonsense. My life is 1000% better now. (even though I thought I was the cat's meow back in the day) And my life is not better because of any worldy material thing. It's the peace of heart Islam brings you when youre sincere, because yeah, A LOT of cats come out of jail "muslim" and theyr'e all Abdus Shaheed Ali in the joint, but when they hit the street its still the same ole Riz Dawg you knew from back when, puffin oo-wops and cuttin' up. I see a lot of that too. A lot of people in America don't realise that Islam is a universal religion for all people. They think Islam is a black thing or an Arab thing. people ask me about Farrakhan all the time, I'm like WHo? Farrakhan is not even a muslim.

 

oh yeah, and I'm not a soul brother either, I'm an italiano Vinnie knuckles type pastafarian brother from around the way, you better ask Paulie and Joey about me.....

[ERIZENO]

Originally posted by Dawood@Dec 10 2005, 03:11 AM

Islam teaches people to be upright , honest , modest , brave , sincere , humble , good to our parents , neighbors , children , wives , It honors people and encourages people to live together in goodness all while beleiving that there is a higher power that we have to answer to , thus making us responsible or our actions. So what did I lose? what do you have to lose by being a muslim?

 

 

Not a damn thing to be lost ... however in my view these good qualities are found in all religions. I dont think you need to follow any specific religion to have a good relationship with god, and as long as you follow these (that should be unspoken) rules what does it matter ???

 

All religions are means to an end ... as long as you rach that end why does it matter which one you had faith in ?? To me it dosent. So I have no faith in any specific religion, yet I have faith in a ultimate power which for lack of a better word I call god.

 

My frustration comes from the state of the US right now and the rampant push of evangelical christians ... they upset me by being so publicly pushy. past that ones personal views are theirs and as long as they are good people it dosent matter to me.

[imported_dowmagik]

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein 1930

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by dowmagik@Dec 12 2005, 05:47 PM

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein 1930

Quoted post

^^^That right there was the shit.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by ERIZENO+Dec 12 2005, 05:07 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ERIZENO - Dec 12 2005, 05:07 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Dec 10 2005, 03:11 AM

Islam teaches people to be upright , honest , modest , brave , sincere , humble , good to our parents , neighbors , children , wives , It honors people and encourages people to live together in goodness all while beleiving that there is a higher power that we have to answer to , thus making us responsible or our actions. So what did I lose? what do you have to lose by being a muslim?

 

 

Not a damn thing to be lost ... however in my view these good qualities are found in all religions. I dont think you need to follow any specific religion to have a good relationship with god, and as long as you follow these (that should be unspoken) rules what does it matter ???

 

All religions are means to an end ... as long as you rach that end why does it matter which one you had faith in ?? To me it dosent. So I have no faith in any specific religion, yet I have faith in a ultimate power which for lack of a better word I call god.

 

My frustration comes from the state of the US right now and the rampant push of evangelical christians ... they upset me by being so publicly pushy. past that ones personal views are theirs and as long as they are good people it dosent matter to me.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

The reason why it matters which religion you choose is because other religions won't be accepted from God. Why? because he did not reveal any other religion except Islam. Islam was the way of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, David, Solomon, etc.....Most religions teach some of the same by way of good qualities, but will they be accepted by God if you did these good deeds for the sake of a Man or a Cow while beleiving that man or that cow was your Lord? How could that be? If you got a job with Mcdonald's and then you showed up in a burger king suit flipping Whoppers while all the time they were telling you "this is Mcdonalds , we don't sell whoppers here" Do you think you would get a paycheck at the end of the week?

I agree, peoples personal views are their business. But I still can't accept that there is an ultimate power (as you called it) and this ultimate power placed us here for no specific reason and with no specific directions. I mean, everything else in this universe has a purpose and a specific direction or use. What about us? are we just here to procreate, build things, eat and die? No higher purpose to serve? All these different religions say different things in regards to who is God and what is God , so are they all right? They can't be.

So they must be all wrong if none of them are right. If thats the case, then we have'nt been sent any guidance by this ultimate power and we were just left to roam aimlessly. But everything has order , even the planets have order and are aligned perfectly with one another in fixed orbits. So why, when everything else has a perfect system, the ants, reproduction, photosynthesis, the bees, the planets etc. etc. Why are we (the most intellegent beings we know of besides God) left to wander aimlessly finding things out on our own. Do you really think humans just developed all of this knowledge we have without being taught something by an intellegent being at one point? I Don't and If you do well, thats another post.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by dowmagik@Dec 12 2005, 11:47 PM

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein 1930

Quoted post

 

that would be a noble endeavor, unfortunately only the world's so called "intellectuals" would suggest such a thing. It's not practical for the masses of people.

 

So when your children get out of line and disrespectful with you, just explain to them the need for proper social ties and how sympathetic approaches to dealing in a social enviroment streghnthen their ethical behavior. HUH?

 

People need to know. If you do this good thing, you get this good thing.

If you do this bad thing, you get this bad thing. Simple.

 

People like Einstein, while he was a "great thinker" of sorts, complicate things for the general simple people.

 

Not everybody has a doctorate degree in physics or engineering and is capable of understanding abstract concepts. Some people just need simple reward and punishment systems to keep them doing right. Not that complex concepts don't have their place, It's just not for everybody.

 

Anyway....Who would know better?? Einstein, or the one who created you and knows the innermost workings of your self??

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood+Dec 12 2005, 08:38 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Dec 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-dowmagik@Dec 12 2005, 11:47 PM

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein 1930

Quoted post

 

that would be a noble endeavor, unfortunately only the world's so called "intellectuals" would suggest such a thing. It's not practical for the masses of people.

 

So when your children get out of line and disrespectful with you, just explain to them the need for proper social ties and how sympathetic approaches to dealing in a social enviroment streghnthen their ethical behavior. HUH?

 

People need to know. If you do this good thing, you get this good thing.

If you do this bad thing, you get this bad thing. Simple.

 

People like Einstein, while he was a "great thinker" of sorts, complicate things for the general simple people.

 

Not everybody has a doctorate degree in physics or engineering and is capable of understanding abstract concepts. Some people just need simple reward and punishment systems to keep them doing right. Not that complex concepts don't have their place, It's just not for everybody.

 

Anyway....Who would know better?? Einstein, or the one who created you and knows the innermost workings of your self??

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Damn, you are almost on the verge of a realization there, Dawood.

So, religion is a means to an end. Social order and ethical behavior is the goal, and because people can't just do that of their own accord, religion is necessary. Be it Islam or otherwise.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Krakatau@Dec 13 2005, 02:47 AM

Damn, you are almost on the verge of a realization there, Dawood.

So, religion is a means to an end. Social order and ethical behavior is the goal, and because people can't just do that of their own accord, religion is necessary. Be it Islam or otherwise.

Quoted post

 

Ok, here it goes....Religion is a means to an end, yes. Social order and ethical behavior is the goal (in this life). And yes, because people can't just do it on their own Islam is necessary ( you said Islam or otherwise, I'll just keep it with Islam) keeping in mind that this life is just a transient state, until we pass on to the afterlife. (now I'm sure people will differ on this) The afterlife is the end destination, where there will be either perpetual enjoyment or perpetual torment. These two destinations will be determined by the person's beleifs and actions in this life.

[imported_dowmagik]

i think ive asked you this before, but im not sure if i recieved an answer. are you capable of admitting that there is a possibility (even if its a slight one) that islam is wrong? if not, i will stop posting in this thread and leave you be.

[imported_dowmagik]

and btw, if i remember correctly, only 10% of swedes believe in a god, and they give more to developing nations than the us, a country full of people who think theres an afterlife. religion is not necessary for strong morals and ethics.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by dowmagik@Dec 13 2005, 03:47 AM

and btw, if i remember correctly, only 10% of swedes believe in a god, and they give more to developing nations than the us, a country full of people who think theres an afterlife. religion is not necessary for strong morals and ethics.

Quoted post

 

 

tax write offs.......

[Dawood]

Originally posted by dowmagik@Dec 13 2005, 03:37 AM

i think ive asked you this before, but im not sure if i recieved an answer. are you capable of admitting that there is a possibility (even if its a slight one) that islam is wrong? if not, i will stop posting in this thread and leave you be.

Quoted post

 

 

show me the proof.

[imported_dowmagik]

are you saying the burden of proof rests upon the person who belives the world operates in accordance to scientific principals and not superstition?

[imported_dowmagik]

the whole "prove me wrong" concept is obsurd. i cant prove to you that bigfoot isnt real. and you cant prove to me that my pet tortoise is not god. it doesnt mean shit.

[Krakatau]

Fuck, I'll prove it.

 

Santa Claus.

Easter Bunny.

 

All the other shit that you thought was true that turned out to be otherwise. Shit you were sure was true.

 

Remember it?

 

There. I have just proven that you are fallible, and thus capable of being mislead, or just plain wrong. SO, there is at least a CHANCE that you are wrong about Islam, right? And don't give me that whole 'half the world can't be wrong' kind of answer, either man. Bush got elected = large groups are also wrong a lot.

[imported_dowmagik]

im gonna go watch my new flicks...peace fellas

[MrJackDaniels]

Originally posted by Dawood+Dec 13 2005, 05:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Dec 13 2005, 05:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-dowmagik@Dec 13 2005, 03:37 AM

i think ive asked you this before, but im not sure if i recieved an answer. are you capable of admitting that there is a possibility (even if its a slight one) that islam is wrong? if not, i will stop posting in this thread and leave you be.

Quoted post

 

 

show me the proof.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

well i could turn it back and ask you to provide absolute proof to a young adult from England that Islam is the one correct religion. Prove to me in a way that i can understand as your average, non religious, run of the block young adult that Allah is watching over us and that there is a heaven and hell...

 

not so easy is it..

[KYU]

I dont think anyone needs scriptures or any religion to guide themselves through life. Why would I want someone else telling ME whats correct and incorrect? The individual needs to decide these things on a personal basis, on their own conscious reality. if you're not being true to yourself, if you're living up to other peoples standards and expectations then whats the point? you're not really being who you really are, you're just presenting that image that you desire to present. you're just playing the game, and infact games are everywhere. they are the product of the ego and generally everyone thinks in terms of 'games.' I do this-i get this, this is accomplished and it will make me happy--if it isnt it will make me sad, and so on. these are not needed, and I have found that a great deal of bliss comes from just BEING. Buddhists call it Samadhi, it is a state of pure consciousness and does not involve the impediment of the ego, which gives rise to the happiness/sorrow games. This is a whole world of games, and if everyone just stopped and began thinking on an individual level this world would be a lot different, probably unrecognizable. I myself used to spend a lot of time in the 'before' and 'after' until I realized that these things were doing me no good. I am at one with my god in the here and now. thats all there is, the now and the individual experiencing it.

[ERIZENO]

Originally posted by Dawood@Dec 13 2005, 02:21 AM

I agree, peoples personal views are their business. But I still can't accept that there is an ultimate power (as you called it) and this ultimate power placed us here for no specific reason and with no specific directions.

 

 

No specific directions so we can accurately do what we are here to do, which in my view is learn lessons. You can’t go a day in your life without being exposed to something, you can learn from those experiences or just accept them off as gods will that adds no value to our lives.

 

It seems this thread helps you from having to question your views day to day; as you can just explain away any logic presented that opposes your views with koran quotes and the like. I respect your sticking to your guns but in my eyes you are no more correct or incorrect than a Catholic who follows the churches every rule for their whole life. Good luck in converting the heathens.

 

I don’t think I am right for anyone but me …but I wish more people could see the horrors ALL religions have done to the world and will continue to do as long as people are controlled by fear of punishment. I have no love for a god that would punish anyone … people pay the price in their mind day to day fighting their continence away to do bad things. Lost souls

 

AND WITH THAT I AM DONE WITH ANY HOPE YOU CAN SEE ANYTHING BUT YOUR VIEWS.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by ERIZENO+Dec 13 2005, 09:53 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ERIZENO - Dec 13 2005, 09:53 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Dec 13 2005, 02:21 AM

I agree, peoples personal views are their business. But I still can't accept that there is an ultimate power (as you called it) and this ultimate power placed us here for no specific reason and with no specific directions.

 

 

No specific directions so we can accurately do what we are here to do, which in my view is learn lessons. You can’t go a day in your life without being exposed to something, you can learn from those experiences or just accept them off as gods will that adds no value to our lives.

 

It seems this thread helps you from having to question your views day to day; as you can just explain away any logic presented that opposes your views with koran quotes and the like. I respect your sticking to your guns but in my eyes you are no more correct or incorrect than a Catholic who follows the churches every rule for their whole life. Good luck in converting the heathens.

 

I don’t think I am right for anyone but me …but I wish more people could see the horrors ALL religions have done to the world and will continue to do as long as people are controlled by fear of punishment. I have no love for a god that would punish anyone … people pay the price in their mind day to day fighting their continence away to do bad things. Lost souls

 

AND WITH THAT I AM DONE WITH ANY HOPE YOU CAN SEE ANYTHING BUT YOUR VIEWS.

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I was studying today and I came across something that made me think of what you wrote. It was about being controlled by fear of punishment. Let me ask you a few questions. When you were a kid ,did your parents have rules? if you broke those rules did you get punished? also, do you think guidelines and laws are beneficial for people in societies? Well what about when they break those laws? should there be any consequences? if there is no consequences then won't there be lawlessness because nobody will respect the rules right? Ok, well, if we're with eachother on that, then what about God.

(or a higher power or whatever you ascribe to)

let's talk about the rights of people compared to the right of God.

Is it the right of the lawmakers and those who enforce them (generally) like the police to arrest us and punish us if we commit crimes like murder theft, rape etc.? yes , right? Ok, well then what about God, who is the ultimate lawmaker, doesn't he have the right to punish or to forgive according to his will? He sees all and knows everything that is in peoples hearts , so he has the right to punish or forgive them according to his knowledge of what they intend. Because not all actions are the same, actions are according to intentions, right? Well, to sum it up, I don't think that a person should just be "controlled" by fear of punishment because this would not benefit a person.

There are 3 things that will benefit a beleiving person in becoming sincere in his actions. #1 to love God (ex:to love God for his blessings and continuous mercy etc.) #2 to fear God (to fear his ability to take retribution for your wrong actions and evil) #3 to have hope in God (to hope for his mercy because his mercy outweighs his wrath)

 

Now as for your statement "I have no love for a god that would punish anyone"

truthfully Erizeno, God is not in need of your love. He created your love and your hate and your sickness and your health and , and ,and

I could go on forever.

The point is, Allah (God) is just, and how would there be justice with no reward and no punishment? People have rewards and punishments, why not God? Doesn't he have the most right to reward or punish? If you do good in your Job , you might get a bonus, If you show up late your pay might get docked, does this make you boss unjust ? absolutely not, if People would only realise that they do themselves the most severe injustice by not submitting to the will of their creator in islam , (true submission to god) then people would not be in such a state of loss.

[bodice_ripper]

Originally posted by Dawood+Dec 13 2005, 04:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Dec 13 2005, 04:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-dowmagik@Dec 13 2005, 03:37 AM

i think ive asked you this before, but im not sure if i recieved an answer. are you capable of admitting that there is a possibility (even if its a slight one) that islam is wrong? if not, i will stop posting in this thread and leave you be.

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show me the proof.

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I have this book that says so. It was told by God to my hamster Mandarinky (may-he-live-past-the-average-rodent-age). The book is both tiny, and holy. Feel free to prove otherwise, but before you do, you should know that Mandarinky (may-he-live-past-the-average-rodent-age) knows your book is a lie.....