discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[The Hater]

Dawood, in your opinion, what does this mean?

 

"Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but do not commit aggression... Slay them wheresoever ye find them and expell them from whence they have expelled you, for sedition is more grievous than slaying..."

Sura 2:190

 

I found this in a textbook in one of my humanities classes, and also in a book about Fundamentalism. Can you help me out here?

[Cracked Ass]

When thinking, never substitute a book for your brain.

Books were written by humans.

Humans are fallible.

They might be lying or hallucinating when they write their books.

As with Mormonism, the validity of Islam hinges on one human who claims to have had truths revealed to him by a higher power. The disciples of Joseph Smith are as ardent about his little episode as Muslims are about Muhammad's. I don't buy either story.

Until this extremely weak link is proven to exist by science, I have no interest in these factional squabbles. Mormonism, Islam, Christianity, all of them substitute books for brains, and cause me to view this planet as populated largely by ignorant, grunting cavemen, clubbing one another over the perceived superiority of their book.

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Cracked Ass@Nov 21 2005, 04:31 PM

When thinking, never substitute a book for your brain.

Books were written by humans.

Humans are fallible.

They might be lying or hallucinating when they write their books.

As with Mormonism, the validity of Islam hinges on one human who claims to have had truths revealed to him by a higher power. The disciples of Joseph Smith are as ardent about his little episode as Muslims are about Muhammad's. I don't buy either story.

Until this extremely weak link is proven to exist by science, I have no interest in these factional squabbles. Mormonism, Islam, Christianity, all of them substitute books for brains, and cause me to view this planet as populated largely by ignorant, grunting cavemen, clubbing one another over the perceived superiority of their book.

Quoted post

 

Please come around more.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by The Hater@Nov 21 2005, 08:40 PM

Dawood, in your opinion, what does this mean?

 

"Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but do not commit aggression... Slay them wheresoever ye find them and expell them from whence they have expelled you, for sedition is more grievous than slaying..."

Sura 2:190

 

I found this in a textbook in one of my humanities classes, and also in a book about Fundamentalism. Can you help me out here?

Quoted post

 

 

 

this is a better translation and it is actually 2 verses from 190-191

 

And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]. (Al-Baqarah 2:190)

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (Al-Baqarah 2:191)

 

then this is the next verse

 

But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Baqarah 2:192)

 

Basically, the first verse is a permission for the muslims to fight those who are fighting against them. (basically self defence) And note that Allah says he does not like those who transgress , encouraging the beleivers to be just in this matter.

 

then the second verse is a permission to fight them again (meaning those who have attacked them first) and a warning not to fight at the sanctuary of Makkah

 

and the third verse of course is reminding the muslims that if they stop fighting you , that you stop fighting them because Allah is most merciful and that we should be merciful also.

 

 

this is my small unscholarly interpretation of these verses, which points out the obvious , there are still many benefits and circumstances surrounding the revelation of these verses that I wasn't able to accurately bring now because my Quran interpretation site is down right now. But if you go to tafsir.com when it is up and search these verses it will give you a better explanation.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Cracked Ass@Nov 21 2005, 10:31 PM

When thinking, never substitute a book for your brain.

Books were written by humans.

Humans are fallible.

They might be lying or hallucinating when they write their books.

As with Mormonism, the validity of Islam hinges on one human who claims to have had truths revealed to him by a higher power. The disciples of Joseph Smith are as ardent about his little episode as Muslims are about Muhammad's. I don't buy either story.

Until this extremely weak link is proven to exist by science, I have no interest in these factional squabbles. Mormonism, Islam, Christianity, all of them substitute books for brains, and cause me to view this planet as populated largely by ignorant, grunting cavemen, clubbing one another over the perceived superiority of their book.

Quoted post

 

The funny thing is this, all humans make decisions based upon their personal experiences. Most of us read books that shape the outlooks on our lives. Also, science is not as strong of an authority as you think it is. Using your own words...

 

"Humans are fallible.

They might be lying or hallucinating when they write their books."

 

I don't know any scientists that aren't human. So to suggest that science is the absolute authority on everything then you would need to prove that scientists don't make mistakes either. Not saying that science is all wrong , I agree with most of what scientists say. And so does Islam.

 

Your statement that "the planet is populated largely by ignorant, grunting cavemen"

Well , I'll have to agree with you there, not because they are all following a book of guidance, but because of their lack of. (muslims included)

 

Anyway, just a hypothetical question... What part of science do you want the Quran to be in conformity with for you to beleive in it?

 

in conclusion, If we were just to follow a book , with no emotion, no thought or contemplation or reasoning, that would make us like Robots , just programmed , Kind of reminds me of how popular media does to people.

 

Is is better to be a servant of your own lowly desires and lusts? satisfying every menial, purposeless whim?

Or is it better and more honorable to serve the creator of the heavens and earth , who created everything with justice and due proportion?

[The Hater]

Thank you very much. It is a much better translation. Is there a particular version of the Quran that you would recommend?

[Dawood]

definately the noble quran translated by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud Din al-Hilali & Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan. This is the only accurate english translation. The others were translated either by non muslims or by people who's understanding of certain things were flawed.

 

you can get it here.

 

http://www.uprightbooks.com/shop/product.p...4&cat=17&page=1

 

Description:

This Book (the Qur’an) is a great miracle for mankind, sufficient to engage the thoughts of those who think, who are wise, who understand and who have knowledge; and also to witness the excellence of its legal laws, commandments, eloquence of its language and real inability (to find any fault or defect in it) of those who studied it or looked deeply in it.

[John Birch]

dawood, I gave you more time to find my quote...what happened? I've been busy lately,

so haven't had time to type out the answer to my question..but its coming,

hopefully when I get back after thanksgiving...

 

 

 

 

 

 

but to talk about science real quick. I said this before, religious people treat science books

like they allege to contain truths, which is how religious people treat their books.

I don't read a science book and believe it and then preach what it contains as "truth".

Science books discuss peoples reserach and then let you draw your own conclusions. Like geology.

I read a book about geology of my area. Is it true? well I went out and bought some geological and topograhical maps

and went looking for myself and agreed in some regards and disagreed in others...

shit I lost my thought, too stoned...

[Dawood]

yeah, man I see what youre saying , like when You see a cloud and It looks like odie from Garfeild with his tounge out and then you look again and it looks like a sumo wrestler fighting a pitbull. Maaan, I saw it , dude. I looked it up in the encyclopedia and it gave me the exact measurements of polysorbate 60 to mix with ammonia so that I could recalibrate my chrome difibulator, I figure that would do the trick, but then again,

 

whatever man, you got any doritos?

[Krakatau]

^Where are you going with that?

 

Another thing regarding science is that it allows for errors to occur and be eliminated as they come up. Religion can't weather that kind of a blow to its credibility as well. Science can just kind of collectively go 'my bad' and rewrite itself without really skipping a beat.

 

Hell, the realization and elimination of errors in how we consider the workings of everything around us is what science is all about.

[RumPuncher]

I know I've taken this route before..... and sorry to go back there,

but something came up in real life that I want to relate back here.

 

So there's an intern at my shop and he's muslim.

He does his prayers and sticks to the diet. I think it's kind of noble.

However..... he wont shake a womans hand. That's not cool.

Those are the rules of men, not the rules of God (IMO).

 

Plus his JOB is to clean out the place, including garbages,

but he wont even touch beer bottles in the blue box.

Sorry..... but if God is all forgiving, then he'd understand

that you wern't doing anythign wrong by touching a beer bottle.

Again... the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

[hello1]

creationists poke holes in science.. they say ah since this little part is missing a 100% certain explantation.."Then it must only be explained by god" (argument of ignorance)

 

but its coo.. lets see when we dizzie or some shit peace

[The Hater]

Dawood, can you tell me where to find stuff on the treatment of women in the Quran?

[Dawood]

Originally posted by RumPuncher@Nov 26 2005, 04:34 AM

I know I've taken this route before..... and sorry to go back there,

but something came up in real life that I want to relate back here.

 

So there's an intern at my shop and he's muslim.

He does his prayers and sticks to the diet. I think it's kind of noble.

However..... he wont shake a womans hand. That's not cool.

Those are the rules of men, not the rules of God (IMO).

 

Plus his JOB is to clean out the place, including garbages,

but he wont even touch beer bottles in the blue box.

Sorry..... but if God is all forgiving, then he'd understand

that you wern't doing anythign wrong by touching a beer bottle.

Again... the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

Quoted post

 

To answer your question, It's nice to hear that a muslim is trying his best to follow what he knows to be correct behavior, even in this land where lewdness and indecency is widespread. Because many muslims DO shake non-relative womens hands and worse than that because of their weaknesses. Allah and his prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ordered us to stay away from zinaa (translated) fornication and adultery. One of the main doors to this adultery and fornication is the free mixing and touching of non related men and women. Now, I know that you will say "a handshake is just an innocent handshake" And sometimes it is and often times it isn't, So to cut off this door to widespread evil such as men and women having premiscous sex (and I'm sure some of you are laughing at that one) But think about it...Whould you want that your mother or your daughter or your sister would get dogged out and impregnated by some rico suave who never intended to stick by her and help raise the kids?? How many times do we see this? We would be lying if we didn't say everyday. Actually, the prohibition is not "just" for handshakes , It is for all types of touching that lead to what I wrote up top and more than that like AIDS. So if AIDS isn't an indication to the evil of premiscuity then I don't know what is! And I know all of this is far fetched according to how non muslims interact, but It works very well for us in keeping our communities free from these diseases and keeping our women pure and respectable, keeping our men responsible etc, etc,

 

As far as the beer bottles, I don't know , man, I guess thats his judgement call, I personally don't see anything wrong with throwing them away, but I wouldnt take a job if it was part of my job to stock,serve or sell beer because Allah says in the quran..........

"assist eachother upon righteousness and piety not on sin and transgression". So according to that , If someone were truly trying to be a good muslim (and there are many good muslims, and bad ones too) He wouldn't help in anything that was considered wrong in Islam.

 

And As for Allah being "All forgiving" yes that's true, but that doesnt give muslims a right to go around sinning, It's not a loophole, It is a way to show us to keep up hope so that the muslim won't have despair of Allah's mercy and give up during times of weakness.

 

Allah is truly "All forgiving" but he is also "the judge" So that doesn't mean muslims get a free pass. It's not just the claim (that you say) or just the good deeds (that you do) or the beleif (that you beleive) It's all of them together , that will ultimately be the thing that will make us eligable for Allah's forgiveness for the bad in us.

[RumPuncher]

good answer... well put on all points.

 

for the beer bottles... we work in the modern office world in an industry that's more about design than sales. (I'm just rying to keep it general). So there are occasions where a client will bring in beer for our hard work, and I wouldn't expect him to partake in that, but it's his job to take out the recycling. I know it's his decision to not touch alcohol, but there shouldn't be a crisis of faith if he has to take out the recycling.

 

"but It works very well for us in keeping our communities free

from these diseases and keeping our women pure and respectable..."

 

then what's up with the whole 'rape as punishment' thing in Pakistan?

Women are ordered to be gang raped for crimes committed by their brothers.

I'm not asking you to defend this, as there's no possible way to do it,

but do the 'elders' ordering these CRIMES and the people who do the deed

actually think they are doing somthign good for Allah? I bet they have scripture to back up their actions.

(or misread scripture perverted by the misjudgement of men)

[Dawood]

Originally posted by The Hater@Nov 27 2005, 11:45 PM

Dawood, can you tell me where to find stuff on the treatment of women in the Quran?

Quoted post

 

check this out, It's a lot of reading, But it will give you some insight into the position of women in islam.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations.../idealmuslimah/

 

here are women converts to Islam telling how they come to Islam and why

 

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/

[Dawood]

Originally posted by RumPuncher@Nov 28 2005, 04:15 AM

good answer... well put on all points.

 

for the beer bottles... we work in the modern office world in an industry that's more about design than sales. (I'm just rying to keep it general). So there are occasions where a client will bring in beer for our hard work, and I wouldn't expect him to partake in that, but it's his job to take out the recycling. I know it's his decision to not touch alcohol, but there shouldn't be a crisis of faith if he has to take out the recycling.

 

"but It works very well for us in keeping our communities free

from these diseases and keeping our women pure and respectable..."

 

then what's up with the whole 'rape as punishment' thing in Pakistan?

Women are ordered to be gang raped for crimes committed by their brothers.

I'm not asking you to defend this, as there's no possible way to do it,

but do the 'elders' ordering these CRIMES and the people who do the deed

actually think they are doing somthign good for Allah? I bet they have scripture to back up their actions.

(or misread scripture perverted by the misjudgement of men)

Quoted post

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY does islam or any Scholar of Islam or any sane person think that any religion would order the rape of women for punishment. This is NO DOUBT , the actions of some twisted individuals. I don't think any muslim actually beleives this. How could they? I think , honestly that what has been shown in the news is just ignorant individuals and some opportunists who hate Islam saw another way to stain the Image of Islam, so they put a spin on the story saying that this was some type of Islamic law thing, when In fact it's the actions of barbarians. And Islam is free from them and their actions.

[Krakatau]

Did anyone catch that 'Banned from the Bible' show last night on the History channel? Shit was interesting as hell.

 

Yeah.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Krakatau@Nov 28 2005, 08:14 PM

Did anyone catch that 'Banned from the Bible' show last night on the History channel? Shit was interesting as hell.

 

Yeah.

Quoted post

 

some guy I know at an audi dealership ran up to me and told me all about it , He was going on and on about how the Bible is not authentic and that he wants to know more about Islam. I guess It was some pretty intriguing stuff, cuz he was all amped over it.

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood+Nov 28 2005, 02:22 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Nov 28 2005, 02:22 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Krakatau@Nov 28 2005, 08:14 PM

Did anyone catch that 'Banned from the Bible' show last night on the History channel? Shit was interesting as hell.

 

Yeah.

Quoted post

 

some guy I know at an audi dealership ran up to me and told me all about it , He was going on and on about how the Bible is not authentic and that he wants to know more about Islam. I guess It was some pretty intriguing stuff, cuz he was all amped over it.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

It actually was really damn good. It discussed books that were in heavy circulation during the time that the bible was actually compiled (under the direction of Constantine, something like 300 A.D.), and what the criteria for excluding and including certain books were. Lemme see.... there was something regarding an in depth account of Adam and Eve, The Book of Enoch- which goes into the angels being cast out of Heaven (what the fuck are jin? they mentioned that they are from Islam... made from smokeless fire or something. Like angels perhaps?), accounts of Jesus's life as a young child (the years left out in the bible)... They had a Muslim scholar that was dropping knowledge on a few sections, as well as rabbis and priests. It actually got me interested in the Quran. I might actually read it if I can free up the time.

 

Fuck, I'd mail you a copy just so I can talk about the show with you. I've grown to respect your opinions a lot more as a result of this thread. Please take the opportunity to watch it if you get a chance.

[iloveboxcars]

i think its terrible that a tv show not only can cause a man to stop believing in his god (isnt this shit supposed to work on faith?) but i also like how he is scrambling to find a new religion as quickly as possible.

 

 

"my life has been a waste, but my afterlife will be filled with meaning"

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by iloveboxcars@Nov 28 2005, 04:19 PM

i think its terrible that a tv show not only can cause a man to stop believing in his god (isnt this shit supposed to work on faith?) but i also like how he is scrambling to find a new religion as quickly as possible.

 

 

"my life has been a waste, but my afterlife will be filled with meaning"

Quoted post

You talking to me?

I'm no Christian.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by iloveboxcars@Nov 28 2005, 10:19 PM

i think its terrible that a tv show not only can cause a man to stop believing in his god (isnt this shit supposed to work on faith?) but i also like how he is scrambling to find a new religion as quickly as possible.

 

 

"my life has been a waste, but my afterlife will be filled with meaning"

Quoted post

 

 

Most likely he had doubts in his faith before the tv show. And I don't think he is scrambling, just broadening his horizons. Opening up a little to newer things.

 

And I think he was talking about the Audi dealer guy, not you Krak.

[BURLAP]

uh, picking up off what c.ass said...brains vs. books...

j.witness used to come around the way,

and i would entertain their ideas and stuff on my front porch, but

anytime i had questions or pointed out contradictions, instead of

speaking to me from their 'brains', they would pull some exotic

quote out of their 'book' that they felt perfectly fit my question.

over and over this happened until one day i said, look, answer me

without flipping through your bible! they answered with a

mish mash of quotes that really didn't amount to squat all.

they stopped coming by after that. too bad, i think i was getting

somewhere with one of them.

[iloveboxcars]

Originally posted by Krakatau+Nov 28 2005, 02:23 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakatau - Nov 28 2005, 02:23 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-iloveboxcars@Nov 28 2005, 04:19 PM

i think its terrible that a tv show not only can cause a man to stop believing in his god (isnt this shit supposed to work on faith?) but i also like how he is scrambling to find a new religion as quickly as possible.

 

 

"my life has been a waste, but my afterlife will be filled with meaning"

Quoted post

You talking to me?

I'm no Christian.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

yeah, i was talking about the audi dealer guy.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Krakatau+Nov 28 2005, 08:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakatau - Nov 28 2005, 08:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Dawood@Nov 28 2005, 02:22 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Krakatau@Nov 28 2005, 08:14 PM

Did anyone catch that 'Banned from the Bible' show last night on the History channel?  Shit was interesting as hell.

 

Yeah.

Quoted post

 

some guy I know at an audi dealership ran up to me and told me all about it , He was going on and on about how the Bible is not authentic and that he wants to know more about Islam. I guess It was some pretty intriguing stuff, cuz he was all amped over it.

Quoted post

 

It actually was really damn good. It discussed books that were in heavy circulation during the time that the bible was actually compiled (under the direction of Constantine, something like 300 A.D.), and what the criteria for excluding and including certain books were. Lemme see.... there was something regarding an in depth account of Adam and Eve, The Book of Enoch- which goes into the angels being cast out of Heaven (what the fuck are jin? they mentioned that they are from Islam... made from smokeless fire or something. Like angels perhaps?), accounts of Jesus's life as a young child (the years left out in the bible)... They had a Muslim scholar that was dropping knowledge on a few sections, as well as rabbis and priests. It actually got me interested in the Quran. I might actually read it if I can free up the time.

 

Fuck, I'd mail you a copy just so I can talk about the show with you. I've grown to respect your opinions a lot more as a result of this thread. Please take the opportunity to watch it if you get a chance.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

I'm pretty much up on the history of how the bible was "remixed" under Constantine. He started Christmas, Most people know that December 25th Is'nt the birthday of Christ. Back then , they went by the Lunar calendar , not the Solar calendar, so even if they knew the exact date of the birth of Jesus, It would vary in date from year to year because of the Lunar/Solar calendar differences.Also, Constantine was the one to enforce..Oh, I mean introduce the "trinity" into christianity, wheras Christians before Constantine beleived (like Jesus, Moses,Noah, Abraham,Muhammad etc.) in One God who was Like "god" and not like "man".

 

Allah even says in the Quran about people changing his word.

 

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. (Al-Baqarah 2:79)

 

But those who did wrong changed the word from that which had been told to them for another, so We sent upon the wrong-doers a punishment from the heaven because of their rebelling against Allâh's Obedience. (Al-Baqarah 2:59)

 

But those among them who did wrong changed the word that had been told to them. So We sent on them a torment from heaven in return for their wrong-doings. (Al-A'raf 7:162)

 

 

anyway,

the jinn is a long topic that would deserve another thread, just on them. I don't own a TV , so I can't watch it like that ,but maybe I can download it online somewhere.

[John Birch]

yous should all read Harold Bloom's new book "Jeshua and Yahweh"

 

 

that talks alot about how the Bibles and the Quran are great literay fiction and compiled from many sources. Keep in mind all these books were collected and rewritten over a span of 2000 years...

[Krakatau]

Sorry boxcars, my mistake.

 

Dawood- Is there any way that you could do a short explanation on the jinn? Am I right that they are essentially a seperate kind of creature that came into existence after angels and before man was made? That is what I understood from the show at least....

 

Here is a stolen overview of the show for anyone interested:

 

The Stories That Were Deleted From Biblical History

 

Thursday, December 25 at 9 pm ET/PT on The History Channel

 

NEW YORK, Dec. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- When Jesus was a boy, did he kill another child? Was Mary Magdalene a prostitute -- or an apostle? Did Caincommit incest? Will there be an apocalypse or is this God's trick to scare us? The answers to these questions aren't found in the Bible as we know it, butthey exist in scriptures banned when powerful leaders deemed them unacceptable for reasons both political and religious. BANNED FROM THE BIBLE reveals some of these alternative tales and examines why they were "too hot for Christianity." The two-hour world premiere BANNED FROM THE BIBLE airs on Christmas, Thursday, December 25 at 9 pm ET/PT.

 

The Life of Adam and Eve, The Book of Enoch, The Book of Jubilees, The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary, The Apocalypse of Peter...these are just a few of the books that were left out of the Bible. The reasons why they were excluded provide astonishing insight into the concerns of church leaders and scholars responsible for spreading the faith an illuminating look at early Christian and religious history.

 

One hundred and fifty years after the birth of Jesus, a man named Marcion decided that a Christian Bible was needed to replace the Hebrew Bible. Church leaders opposed Marcion's banning of the Hebrew books, but they did agree that Christians should have a Bible to call their own. After Constantine the Great converted to Christianity in the 4th century, a serious effort was made to compile a Christian Bible, one that included both the Hebrew scriptures (the Old Testament) and Christian manuscripts (the New Testament). It took another 40 years before a final list of New Testament books was officially canonized by the church. Many of the most popular were excluded. Upon examination today, many of these writings attempt to resolve inconsistencies and questions raised from reading the Bible.

 

BANNED FROM THE BIBLE examines the stories in some of these books, how they were rediscovered and what they might mean to us today. Included are:

 

* The Life of Adam and Eve: A more detailed story of creation than what is found in Genesis, this book includes jealous angels, a more devious serpent, and more information about Eve's fall from grace from her point of view.

 

* The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a question that has vexed Christians for centuries -- if Adam and Eve only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity was born of incest would have been radical -- and heretical.

 

* The Book of Enoch: This scripture reads like a modern day action film, telling of fallen angels, bloodthirsty giants, an earth that had become home to an increasingly flawed humanity and a divine judgment to be rendered though denied a place in most Western Bibles; it has been used for centuries by Ethiopian Christians. Large portions of this book were found as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

* The Infancy Gospel of Thomas: The only book that deals with young Jesus, it indicates that Jesus was a strong-willed child who one historian describes as "Dennis the Menace as God." The book reveals that at age five, Jesus may have killed a boy by pushing push him off a roof and then resurrected him. Perhaps too disturbing for inclusion in the Bible, this book seems to contain traditions, also known to the Koran.

 

* The Protovangelion of James: This book offers details of the life of the Virgin Mary, her parents, her birth and her youth, stories not found in the New Testament Gospels but was beloved by many early Christians.

 

* The Gospel of Mary: This Gnostic Text reveals that Mary Magdalene may have been an apostle, perhaps even a leading apostle, not a prostitute. While some texts in the Bible seem to deny women a voice in the Christian community, this texts helps spark the debate about the role of women in the church.

 

* The Gospel of Nicodemus: This is the story of Jesus's trial and execution and his descent into hell. According to this gospel the Savior asserts his power over Satan by freeing patriarchs such as Adam, Isaiah and Abraham from Hell.

 

* The Apocalypse of Peter: Peter's apocalypse suggests that there is a way out of punishment for evildoers and implies that the threat of the apocalypse is a way for God to scare people into living a moral life, and committing fewer sins.

 

These books are just a sampling of the hundreds that were never included in the Holy Bible. Perhaps there are more to be found. Whether one believes these alternative stories or not, they do provide an interesting perspective of the religious culture and propensities of the time.

 

BANNED FROM THE BIBLE features commentary from Bible experts and historians including Marvin Meyer, PhD, Professor of Bible and Christian Studies, Chapman University; Daniel Smith-Christopher, Ph.D, Professor of Religious Studies, Bluffton College; Anthea Butler, Ph.D, Department of Theological Studies Loyola Marymount University; and John Dominic Crossan, Ph.D, Professor Emeritus, DePaul University.

[MESTHREE]

 

 

Behold, the answer to all your questions about the nature of god and the universe

[RumPuncher]

hahaha... great link mes,