2nd ammendment being justified by 2020 candidates

[KILZ FILLZ]

Robert O'Rourke and Kamala Harris throwing out the idea of mandatory gun buyback programs. 

 

Atleast the grabbers are out in the open now. Much more dangerous in the shadows. 

 

Grabbers gonna grab.

 

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/13/760642023/democratic-presidential-candidates-disagree-on-mandatory-gun-buyback

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/17/kamala-harris-gun-buybacks-are-a-good-idea/

 

[abrasivesaint]

Doubt it will happen and i highly doubt either one of those dolts will make the long haul. 

 

Then again i highly doubted Trump/16 was actually going to happen, so what the fuck do i know. 

 

Edit: didn’t they try this in illinois and it failed miserably? Threatening imprisonment and all that.

Edited September 18, 2019 by abrasivesaint

[misteraven]

It's 100% straight theater.

 

Regardless, they're both long shots and are in desperation mode. They need to stay in the conversation and will do whatever it takes to that end. If they were ranking well, you'd see them simmer down. But lets dissect the idea just a bit for fun.

 

Consider the logistics of that effort. There's been over 320+ million NICS checks since the program was instituted in the 1990s. Obviously the peak of guns being interwoven in the fabric of American culture was the 1950's, presumably because you had 16 million Americans go ooff to war in the decade before that and many more going off to war in Korea and later, Vietnam. Estimates put it at a conservative 1 billion guns, though I'd likely add 25 - 50% to that myself and considering how porous our borders in regards to illegal drug and human trafficking, I think even that might be conservative. (We'll save the discussion on how booming the illegal gun trade will become once it's announced to be illegal). The USA is 3.797 million square miles geographically and I've attached a current population density map for the USA. (Note that that the areas with the light yellow coloring or least populated, are fairly certain to also be the greatest density of firearms.

 

Now the ides is that the buyback is accomplished by using taxes taken from Americans, to "buy back" guns taken from American's. So another way to look at this is they're simply refunding a little money that they've already taken from you to temper the backlash of disarming you. Now considering the average gun owner, lets consider their willingness to comply with that. In New Zealand, they instituted the exact same thing after a recent mass shooting. According to PBS, six weeks into the program, gun owners have turned in about 10,000 guns out of an estimated 1.5 million. For reference, New Zealand has a population of roughly 4.8 million people and a geographic area of 103,500 square miles. Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-new-zealands-gun-buyback-program-is-faring-6-weeks-in

 

So assuming that the US government even had the nerve to go door to door when the program flops as badly as it has in New Zealand (And considering the culture in the USA, you can easily assume it'll fare far worse), how would they go about doing it? Do you think the average LEO has the training to go home to home doing no knock raids? Even if they could put a fast track program together to get them on the same page for a National effort, do you suppose they're prepared to deal with the push back? Knowing the culture in the USA, how quickly will it be before the nightly news is stuffed with reports of cops being shot in the face and gun owners and their families being gun downed by the rest of the squad that shows up? It's not possible to deploy the military on US Soil, so that means the National Guard would be rallied up to assist. So that means if all National Guard report for duty and comply with this Constitutionally Illegal mandate, we can add approximately 450,100 more people to collect all those guns across all that area. How long would such an effort take? How much would it cost? National Guard aren't career warriors. Those are just your average Joe that decided they wanted to serve in some way. They take time off work once a year and dedicate a handful of weekends to learn the absolute bare minimum to qualify as a soldier and then spend 1 weekend a month and a week in the summer practicing. Would the government pay their salary, because that role in and of itself doesn't pay rent, let alone mortgages and we can presume it's going to take a while. Complicating matters is that several states have already declared, as a state, that they wouldn't comply with such Federal overreach and will immediately move to nullify that type of Federal gun legislation. Source: https://gunwars.news21.com/2014/eight-states-have-passed-laws-voiding-federal-firearms-regulations/

 

So really now, does anyone believe those claims, during a political run up to election time, carry any real weight at all?

 

Likewise, considering recent precedents like the Bundy vs BLM standoff where a group of ranchers held Federal agents at bay for weeks in an armed standoff, over historic grazing rights for cattle, how do you think people like them would react to being raided? Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff 

 

Adding insult to injury in the governments case against them, even after holding the Feds off at gunpoint for weeks, they managed to win the subsequent court case. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/bundy-ranch-standoff-case-charges-dismissed.html

 

Shit is a distraction... Only serves to keep the idiots out there arguing so they can attempt to rally a base, as well as more dumb shit for us to dissect here on the Oontz for shits, giggles and fun.

 

 

[misteraven]

 

*sound on.

🇺🇸

[misteraven]

There's a few threads on this subject so unsure if this is the best one, but relevant regardless...

 

Congressional Dems: Red Flag Confiscations Are Good for Joe Sixpack, but Not for Gang Members

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/congressional-dems-red-flag-confiscations-are-good-for-joe-sixpack-but-not-for-gang-members/

 

Feel free to google if you don't like the source.

[misteraven]

Via @6Pennies

 

LOLOLOL!

 

[Guest]

I'm expecting a UAV strike right through my bedroom window lol 

 

 

[Mercer]

Gang killings aren't as much of a concern for the political class, (or for most people who don't live in areas affected by gang violence for that matter). Their real concern is a random shooter, or plain citizens taking up arms to defend themselves from the government, or each other. The government's main concern is maintaining it's monopoly on violence, lest it lose control.

 

The individuals making decisions in government recognize that violence is the government's core function. A state always requires the ability to physically remove citizens, or their property through use of force, and the ability to maintain a monopoly over territory by defending it's monopoly fighting other states, and other organized fighting groups. Every law they pass means nothing without the ability to physically seize humans against their will if they violate these laws, and lock them in a cage or worse. No matter how the laws are set up, this is always the core function of a government.

 

It's probably unsettling for someone with the power of state troopers, or other police forces working for them to consider any decision they make could bring with it a chance of being shot. The more powerful one is, naturally the more enemies they create, so for politicians a well armed public is a huge concern. I think that uneasiness a good thing, and should be one of the foundational checks & balances of any good system. I'm surprised this guy is willing to talk so recklessly, but I guess some people will do anything for power, no matter how foolish that thing is.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Mercer
grammer

[abrasivesaint]

[Mercer]

[abrasivesaint]

Always wanted to shoot a FN P90. 

 

Thanks Call of Duty. 

[misteraven]

2 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

Always wanted to shoot a FN P90. 

 

Thanks Call of Duty. 

Come out my way and I'll let you run some rounds through my FN SCAR Heavy.

 

Definitely Call of Duty.

[6Pennies]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

Gang killings aren't as much of a concern for the political class, (or for most people who don't live in areas affected by gang violence for that matter). Their real concern is a random shooter, or plain citizens taking up arms to defend themselves from the government, or each other. The government's main concern is maintaining it's monopoly on violence, lest it lose control.

 

The individuals making decisions in government recognize that violence is the government's core function. A state always requires the ability to physically remove citizens, or their property through use of force, and the ability to maintain a monopoly over territory by defending it's monopoly fighting other states, and other organized fighting groups. Every law they pass means nothing without the ability to physically seize humans against their will if they violate these laws, and lock them in a cage or worse. No matter how the laws are set up, this is always the core function of a government.

 

It's probably unsettling for someone with the power of state troopers, or other police forces working for them to consider any decision they make could bring with it a chance of being shot. The more powerful one is, naturally the more enemies they create, so for politicians a well armed public is a huge concern. I think that uneasiness a good thing, and should be one of the foundational checks & balances of any good system. I'm surprised this guy is willing to talk so recklessly, but I guess some people will do anything for power, no matter how foolish that thing is.

I agree he is reckless.  Doesn't do Dems any favors and will incite the Right. Maybe he is purposefully agitating for the larger agenda.  We may be closer than we think to some boogaloo, or at least maybe from some lone wolf action...

 

Actually, let Beto keep talking like that, fire arms sales and manufacturing are suffering a major down turn.

 

[6Pennies]

3 hours ago, abrasivesaint said:

Always wanted to shoot a FN P90. 

 

Thanks Call of Duty. 

My circle has one here too 

[Mercer]

Apparently Beto did an AMA today on reddit, didn't look but don't think it went as well as expected.

 

Found this

 

[misteraven]

 

[misteraven]

Lot of truth to the video above. A couple recent observations...

 

1. You can see repeatedly that anti-gun politicians are so unbelievably misinformed. I'm not even talking about personal positions or the gray areas that exist ideologically between individuals. I mean that politicians are supposed to be professional legislators. According to Wikipedia, here is what's stated as the job of a politician:

 

A politician is a person active in party politics, or a person holding or seeking office in government. Politicians propose, support and create laws or policies that govern the land and, by extension, its people.

 

So one would assume like any other career, they're expected to have an expertise (or at least clear proficiency) in the core skills required to do the job. Seems perfectly reasonable to expect politicians to due their due diligence to understand in very specific detail, the subjects for which they are reviewing / amending / creating new legislation for. Yet in regards to discussions on guns, they continue to display an utter lack of even basic understanding. They regularly go up in front of news cameras and assemblies and spout utter nonsense, and somehow deliver that nonsense with a confidence as if it's so obvious. Honestly, it blows my mind how they can do this and I can't help but wonder what other areas they're creating legislation around in which they don't even have a basic understanding of (I happen to know guns, bill of rights / 2A fairly well). Also, in what other profession would this be acceptable? Whether marketing or construction, if you stood up in front of people and spouted off shit that was so completely erroneous like what we see in the video above (and way too many others just like it), you literally would not have a job. In fact, I'm not even sure how you could get the job to begin with. Yet here we are... Paying our heart earned taxes to pay (most often) exorbitant salaries and job related benefits that go far above that most professional careers to people that seem to have no real qualification, let alone talent for the job. It's pretty insane if you take a moment to consider this.

 

------

 

2. In a recent chat with @Kultsit occurred to me that there is a vast and fundamental difference between Americans and just about every other country out there, most notably most of Europe and especially the UK and its commonwealths, which include Canada and Australia and many other nations. Americans are born absolutely free. There's not only an expectation of freedom as defined clearly in our Bill of Rights, but an absolute guarantee that extends beyond the limits of government. By charter, our government is by the people for the people and is specifically setup and maintained to be servants of the people. In other words, they answer to the people, not the other way around. 

 

I'm no expert on monarchies, but Kults sent me a standard news article where they keep referring to "the Crown". Maybe you guys in other countries are used to seeing stuff like that, but that blew my mind. In Canada (and I assume all the commonwealth countries), they literally refer to authority as "The Crown". Likewise, the people are largely consider "subjects of the crown", though there's some new legal distinction that resulted from mass immigration that has revised some of that to "subjects of the queen" and "British citizens". In any case, it's a very notable and fundamental difference between Americans and most others. American's are born into the concept that they have freedom. Most other countries are born into the concept that your government, whether its a monarchy or other, is above you. There's a vast historical, as well as cultural difference in how you perceive your relationship with "the crown" that is incomparable with anything we have in America. I've often heard America referred to as "cowboy culture" and it never really meant anything to me. Likewise, I've often heard reference to other countries being "jealous of our freedoms" and that never really meant anything to me either, at least until Kults sent me that article.

 

Americans are truly born free. By charter our country is setup where its people sit above the government, which is specifically tasked with serving its people. Our entire Constitution is a set of rules they must abide by (versus limits put on the people), with the first 10 amendments making up a Bill of Rights that exist completely beyond the laws of man, including government. I know there's a lot of politicians out there trying very hard to make it seem this is not the case, but its absolute fact and all are free to look into this as its all very thoroughly documented by the founding fathers of the United States.

 

In any case, it occurred to me that people outside the United States are no more qualified to speak on our freedoms and system of government than they are to speak on any other culture or system of government outside their own. I personally can't imagine ever referring to anyone as "The Crown" as the implications of that go completely against what I know and what I'd ever accept. I suppose that's where the "cowboy culture" reference comes into play as I'd be willing to bet that huge swaths of this country would literally fight to their death, before ever being a "subject" of anyone. It completely goes against what it means to be an American to exist below that of government, but it's almost offensive to think of ones self as some sort of property or subject to "The Crown" or anyone else. Maybe I'm over thinking this, but I'm kind of the mindset to be like "fuck the opinions of the rest of the world" on this subject since most simply lack the perspective to have a valid opinion on the subject. That goes hand in hand with comparing what's being done in other countries as a model or even reference to what maybe we should be doing here. When you consider the situation in these terms, t's literally as ridiculous for others to consider America's relationship with particular freedoms like gun rights as it would be for Americans to consider the lack of separation between society and religion in the Middle East. We simply lack the history and cultural understanding to begin to wrap our heads around the various nuance that define the real day to day implications of something that is so specific to the culture.

 

Anyhow, thought I'd voice that observation as an American.

 

🇺🇸

[Mercer]

[misteraven]

Sort of surprised to see any response to my last post. Guess the news / conspiracy topics are getting tired?

[Kults]

34 minutes ago, misteraven said:

Sort of surprised to see any response to my last post. Guess the news / conspiracy topics are getting tired?

Forum in general has felt slow lately. That being said, the dozen or so of us regulars who usually engage in these convos have a general idea of where the others stand by now. 

[Guest]

Stephen Nichols, 84, of Tisbury, who said his career with the Tisbury Police spanned six decades and who served in the United States Army during the Korean War, told The Times he made no threats to the school, but had criticized its school resource officer in a conversation with a friend. He said the conversation was taken out of context. 

 

Nichols said he was unimpressed with the Tisbury School resource officer’s alleged trips to Xtra Mart to get coffee when children came to school in the morning. While dining at Linda Jean’s a couple of weeks ago, Nichols said he told a friend about this and suggested somebody could “shoot up the school” in that officer’s absence, which he described as “leaving his post.” 

 

 

 

https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/crossing-guard-relieved-duty-guns-seized/

 

[Guest]

They're trying to force us underground. I can never tell anyone I'm a firearms owner I wouldn't trust with telling I'm a writer. 

 

***

 

California Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom signed 15 gun-related bills into law Friday, tightening the state's already-stringent Second Amendment restrictions.

 

One of the bills, which expands a so-called "red flag" law to allow co-workers, employers and educators to seek gun violence restraining orders against firearms owners they fear are a danger to themselves and others, was vetoed twice by Newsom's predecessor, Jerry Brown.

 

Newsom also signed a companion bill allowing the gun violence restraining orders to last one and five years, although the gun owners could petition to end those restrictions earlier. The bill also allows judges to issue search warrants at the same time as they grant the orders. The warrants can be used immediately if the gun owners are served with the relinquishment orders but fail to turn over the firearms or ammunition.

 

The Democratic governor also signed a law that will limit Californians to purchasing one long rifle per month, according to The Sacramento Bee.

 

This law expands the current legislation that applies to handguns, and it will prevent people under 21 from purchasing semi-automatic rifles and other similar firearms.

 

Ting also has a companion bill that would allow gun owners starting next September who are the subjects of restraining order requests to file a form with the court saying they won't contest the requests and are surrendering their firearms. Under current law, even those who agree to give up their guns must go through a court hearing, which Ting says wastes time and resources.

 

The laws will take effect Jan. 1, 2020.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-expands-gun-seizure-law

 

[misteraven]

Such a mess. 

[Guest]

Shit like this passing is why I feel it's a waste to contribute $ to NRA or any of the other orgs. All I see it as is a big list of gun owners that could be seized by big brother. Same reason I never went medical Marijuana. Big list of known weed smokers big brother could seize and use as they see fit. 

 

I'm fuckin ready for Alaska retirement. 😔 

[Mercer]

Outside of the gun rights argument this is am open invitation to SWAT your coworkers, employees, students, basically anyone you want to now. There's no requirement for the victim here to break the law, you basically can violate their rights via the state by feeling a certain way about them. This is terrifying for freedom, and you better believe ground lost on this front will be applied not only to guns. The fact there's no requirement for any evidence of a crime, and the fact that a search warrant is automatically being issued (again, nor requirement for anything other than an accusation) in this situation will be used strip every last right away eventually. Do or say something completely legal, and unpopular, and the gestapo will show up. It's that simple.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

 Same reason I never went medical Marijuana

This, and the fact that it's usually much better price/quality.

 

Black markets are the only truly free markets.

[ndv]

Grain of salt considering its CNN.  But found the headline interesting. 

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/11/us/ar-15-guns-law-atf-invs/index.html

[misteraven]

Super interesting article. 

[ndv]

Yeah, very interesting.  I serched for the case document and attached the PDF File for everyone to get an official review of the case document opposed to media filters and so forth.

Roh, Ruling on R 29 Motion.pdf

[Guest]

 

 

 

This guy was a representative from Texas. Texas of all places lol

 

 

 

 

YouTube comment: "Americans follow the law that's why we have so many prisons"