A.C.A.B.

[Mercer]

@misteravenglad you feel that way. I feel we need a complete delete of all legal code on the books, and to start off with a fresh codebase that doesn't need so many patches over the errors & conflicts within the existing codebase.

 

I also agree that nobody is equal, a term so hard to quantify that it's meaningless. I just meant afforded equal rights, responsibilities, and protections under the law. I don't condone placing any one person above others by default in legal matters. I think that right now is a good time to start treating a cop, as equals, especially with todays technology. For example, If an officer can shoot a dog if they're slightly frightened, technically why shouldn't everyone have that right? Maybe it should be that nobody can shoot a dog unless they're actually threatened with eminent harm, including an officer. Rules of engagement for soldiers are normally "fire when fired upon", but for cops it's fire when you're frightened.

 

It's convenient outsourcing all responsibility to someone else, but I'd rather just be responsible for wearing my own body cam and weapon if need be, or having a dash cam myself as the norm, than relying on LE to conduct an investigation and cleanup the aftermath. We're all more likely to get shot by a cop accidentally, than actually shoot a cop. Viewing them as having some sort of elevated status, or as more responsible (legally) because of their profession affords LE officers an opportunity to commit crimes with little to no fear of consequences, even if that crime is captured on film in many cases.

 

I just think it's easier to remove the concept of a privileged position, creating more rules, even if they're somewhat effective is like a surgeon removing 80% of a tumor. We know the tendency towards authoritarianism, cronyism, and government overreach never goes away. Even if the cancer comes back slowly, for example with "common sense gun control" starting with full auto bans, then magazine capacity laws, then nothing that looks too scary laws, then red flag laws, we all know where this scope creep ends up eventually. To treat the cancer, the tumor, and all it's remnants need to be removed fully.

[Fist 666]

fyi, not abandoning, just don't have time to put a real comment down. maybe wednesday, but likely friday. @Mercer

[abrasivesaint]

On 2/9/2020 at 11:43 AM, Mercer said:

If this harsh punishment approached worked, there wouldn't be prostitution, gambling, drugs, or alcohol during prohibition.

I would say in this situation, like many situations still today, some people saw the potential financial gains far more worthwhile than the potential consequences, some people just don’t fear incarceration or death. Jailbreaks were also far more common and achievable. They could bribe and kill their way out of many troublesome situations with a fair amount of ease, which, i would say, is not as easily accomplished today by your average criminal organization. 
 

While this approach doesn’t deter everyone, and i would argue is ridiculous in some cases in terms of states with non violent 3 strike laws, i would argue does work for you average joe thats had some fuck ups and isn’t a career criminal. 
 

DUI penalties get harsher the more times you offend. About 1/3 of all offenders become repeat offenders. This means that first time was still enough of a wake up to 2/3 of offenders to not repeat the mistake.

 

I understand your argument @Mercerand if he was just another off duty cop i dont know if id agree harsher penalties should be thrown at him, but in this situation he was not just another person driving drunk. I also agree with @misteraventhat in situations where there is clear abuse of power, much like this situation, harsh penalties should be enforced.
 

Those cops let him slide, a privilege not afforded to the vast majority of the public, and everyone involved in not prosecuting this man should lose their jobs for that abuse of power, in the least. He was 5 times the legal limit, had admitted to driving, and in possession of his firearm, all criminal offenses. He was in the middle of the road in the middle of the day, he could have easily killed someone. If this were any other citizen they would have thrown the book at them. 
 

There’s even footage of the on scene cops admitting he was drunk..

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[abrasivesaint]

“Murder in the Bayou” on Showtime is a fun watch. About the Jennings 8, 8 women murdered and dumped in this small town of 11,000 people over the course of 4 years. 
 

It’s always hard with these sorts of shows as they clearly have a narrative to sell, but this seems pretty obvious there’s some fishy shit going on with the police in this case.

Edited February 12, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Fist 666]

On 2/8/2020 at 3:24 PM, Mercer said:

Where are these supposed unflawed humans we should be seeking out then? This is why I'm not down with government. Wouldn't it just make more sense to assume all humans are flawed? 

 

I can show you the error in logic:

 

People are bad, so we need a government made up of People are bad, so we need a government made up of People are bad, so we need a government made up of People are bad, so we need a government made up of People....

There are no perfect actors and no perfect systems for them to perform in--100% would never/have never claimed otherwise. There are systems that can work, and check/balances to keep them in line. A representative democracy is meant to select the best among us and have laws to keep those selected representatives in check--the inherent and evident failing of that system has as much or more to do with human nature as it does with flaws in the man-made system.

(Also, we don't need government because people are bad, we want it because our (idealized) collective society functions far more efficiently when resources are pooled, leaders appointed, and experts acknowledged)

 

Greed, abuse of power, etc will take place in any and every system, writing a set of rules to keep those abuses in check appeals to me more than the idea of telling people to abide by the NAP.

 

re the meme: people will do evil, regardless of any system/lack of system. social contract, or potential consequence, no doubt. throwing away the system doesn't change human nature.

 

That there are plenty who follow the ten commandments (selectively) ONLY because they believe it affects their afterlife is evidence that consequences motivate behavior. (moral compass,/moral landscape is its own tangent but is potentially very relevant to this conversation).

 

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Nope, I'm suggesting holding officers to the exact same accountability as everyone else without privilege. Also, I know it's hard to but let's try to keep it civil, and not hurl insults at each other's beliefs. There's plenty I could say to insult, but I try to stick to a more civil tone. Besides, what you're falsely implying I think "there shouldn't be any rules for either police, or civilians", which is the opposite of what I've suggested, and believe.

I wasn't try to be insulting or uncivil--sarcasm doesn't come through sometimes. My intent with that comment is to distinguish "bart simpson anarchy" from  "capital A anarchism."  the cops/vodka/racing bits were all references to denver cops in those two recent stories I posted. As far as I understand your position, the only just rule is the NAP,  any other law typically requires "force" to enforce, so any rule beyond the NAP is at odds with your system.

 

You and @misteravenhave covered what I would have said here regarding scaling consequences, no point in dragging that out anymore.

 

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Who's has faced negative consequences from his actions, or anyone else's actions from simply passing out in a car?

 

For a crime to take place, you need a victim. I simply pointed out there was no direct  harm done by him, or any other person who's ever found passed out in their car (unless they wrecked it before passing out).

This time? Luckily nobody. 

In ancapistan is drunk driving a non-offense until someone gets hit? 

I understand that drunk drivers do this regardless of consequence in our current system, where I cannot agree is saying there has to be a victim for there to be a crime.

 

If someone points a loaded (or perceived to be) weapon at me I am justified in killing them. If he shoots first and misses me, I'm still  justified to kill him. If he doesn't kill me he has still committed a crime.

 

If a drunk cop hops in a loaded weapon and drives it around my neighborhood, I ought to be able to act with the same defense. If he misses the neighborhood kids at the bus stop in the first pass around the block and passes out (in the middle of the road) he has still committed a crime.

We could open up a can of worms with intent/consequence if you'd like.

 

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IMO Police should see if a passed out individual in a car needs help, and if not keep it moving and maybe look for someone directly harming others (criminals).

I've passed out in my car three sheets to the wind, woken up a couple hours later only two sheets to the wind and driven home. Bad behavior doesn't need a victim to have a negative impact on society. 

 

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I don't, unfortunately. You can't spend your way out of this problem, it's been tried. This system is already throwing too much money at LE now when you factor in civil suits, pensions, department costs, etc. What we do know for sure isn't working right now is having a separate, almost non-existent justice system just for them, and that can be applied to the highest/lowest compensated LE officers and departments. To assume you can just spend your way out of all these problems disregards the value of efficiency, and ignores reality. I mean if it were as simple as spending more money on recruiting, training, and community rapport building the problem would have solved itself by now.

 I'm including my original quote to clarify this point without making you scroll back two pages to figure out the context 

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If police departments spent more seeking out qualified candidates, more on training, and more on community rapport building and less on out-of-court settlements, military grade vehicles and weaponry, sports cars instead of good-enough cruisers, then they wouldn't need to fire all the shitbirds they hire and worry about recouping the cost. (I've got to assume/hope you agree with me in this sentence.)

 

I'm not spending my way out of this one--I'm spending more wisely, more thoughtfully, more pragmatically, but not spending more dollars. All of this being idealized, of course. Not utopian, just better.

 

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Again, you're twisting my words to create a false narrative to argue against. I never said there's anything that justifies criminal actions by anyone. I was pointing out the reason why officer's aren't fired when they should be, not condoning it. You really think I feel that way, really? I'm 100% about accountability of LE as a solution. It boils down to any violation of the non aggression principal makes a person a criminal, and that person should face consequences for that violation. 

I know you aren't justifying a bad system--but I do believe you declared it logically sound. That was all.

 

_________________________________

 

I am never defending status quo as perfect, near utopic, or ideal. I do believe the framework for a more functional system can be constructed within existing parameters. 

 

As long as humans are involved in a system, cancer will be present. There is no utopia; there is better and worse, there is functioning and failing, and it is a razor's edge between those states.

 

 

 

[Mercer]

 

[abrasivesaint]

Well that was a good way to direct my anger from today into a different place. 

[abrasivesaint]

Oh shit.. funny enough after that video ended another video popped up that i actually have loose ties to. 
 

 

I know members of this family. One of their grand daughters is a real good friend of mine and she grew up racing cars like her grandfather. Weird coincidence (or maybe great algorithm work)  that story you sent lead to that one after..

 

That motel was in fact a hotspot for drugs and prostitution. Everyone knew it. It’s the type of cliche drug hotel you’d see on a true crime show.
 

They did in fact end up selling that property and now a massive bowling alley/bar/arcade/indoor golf place is there.. https://wamesitlanes.com

Edited February 15, 2020 by abrasivesaint

[Fist 666]

11 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

 

 

As long as humans are involved in a system, cancer will be present. There is no utopia; there is better and worse, there is functioning and failing, and it is a razor's edge between those states.

 

 

 

This should have ended with "it is not a razor's edge between those states." Little words make a big difference...

[KILZ FILLZ]

[KILZ FILLZ]

mcD drive through too

 

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

[abrasivesaint]

Thats always a fun one. I think those dudes actually got fucked for that one. Could be wrong.

[KILZ FILLZ]

edit - learning embed tweets

 

 

 

 

[abrasivesaint]

Jesus christ. 

[KILZ FILLZ]

Shoplifter at a mall

 

 

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

https://apnews.com/19c902caf3e0721deaea0be678660d2c
 

 

[abrasivesaint]

On 3/29/2020 at 11:39 AM, KILZ FILLZ said:

Shoplifter at a mall

 

 

 

This guy fucking serious hahaha.. 

[KILZ FILLZ]

[Fist 666]

TY for the lolz.

 

Now let the citizens they serve and protect foot that repair bill...

[KILZ FILLZ]

 

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

[abrasivesaint]

[KILZ FILLZ]

Fuck

[Mercer]

[KILZ FILLZ]

 

 

RIP 

 

 

mirror in case IG deletes that 

 

 

 

 

[Fist 666]

@KILZ FILLZ came to post the same story.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52806572

 

They're fired, that's a start--but goddamn this shit gets me fired up. Also, watching WACO got me fired the fuck up too. Fuck. 

[Mercer]

That's intentional homicide, and accessory to murder right there. Good luck in jail for both of them.

[Kalashnikov]

2 hours ago, Fist 666 said:

@KILZ FILLZ came to post the same story.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52806572

 

They're fired, that's a start--but goddamn this shit gets me fired up. Also, watching WACO got me fired the fuck up too. Fuck. 

Being fired is definitely a start, but keep in mind with the FOP/unions, that just means fired for now. The union can always fight for them to have their jobs back. I think that the mayor and the police chief in Minneapolis are trying to distance themselves though. Watching the video is just fucking enraging. Flip the roles, If a civilian did something like that to an off-duty cop, or even another civilian and it was caught on video, and they managed to walk off before the cops got there... their house, job, parents' house, girlfriend's mom's cousin's sister's friend's house that they stayed at once, etc. would be having their doors busted down within minutes. 

 

I heard in the news that the US Attorney is looking into the case. Hopefully by tomorrow they'll have filed charges, it's good that it's being looked at by the feds and not the local DA though. Either way, all of this was beyond unjustified. The guy was already handcuffed, and the other cop just kept saying, "Don't do drugs"... so being allegedly high is grounds for cops to kill you now? All of this shit over some "forgery in progress"... another non-violent alleged criminal dies at the hands of law enforcement.

 

Fucking ridiculous.

[Mercer]

Word is the dude was innocent. They got a call about a counterfeit bill being passed nearby, and when they got there they see this guy sitting on his car. They approach him and he doesn't put up with their bullshit so he basically got murked for basically standing up for his rights. Not sure how much of that is true or not, time will tell.