A.C.A.B.

[Mercer]

Thankfully, I've never had to call the police myself, although I've been in situations I probably should have according to most. I just thought the ACAB moniker kind of fit the theme of the discussion. To be honest, I don't look down on any profession in general, while I know the system we have is severely flawed I also understand it's currently the only one we have and it currently serves an important purpose. I haven't had any run ins in over a decade now, and somehow have friends now that work in Law Enforcement. Some of the nicest people you'll ever meet, but I still notice shit like a forced entry kit and battering ram for doors in the back of their jeep and I wonder how much of what they do at work is truly ugly shit. I'm OK with it on some levels because none of us are perfect, but on other levels I feel it's worth examining.

 

So much of the conversation regarding this has been about race, and even as a minority myself I don't agree with that. I also don't think it has anything more to do with class than anything else, rich people have it better period. To me the problem lies with their claim of monopoly over enforcement, the fact you can't call anybody if a police officer raped you, beat you, or stole from you. Or if you called the cops and they just decided they weren't going to enforce the law there's no recourse. Instead of fighting crime, they spend most of their time, and effort enforcing their monopoly on violence, or enforcing the more lucrative victimless crimes. God forbid you defend yourself, or property on your own, you'd be the one in jail.

 

If we had to rebuild society today from scratch, do you think we'd do law enforcement the same way? Would we hand all the guns, and rights to enforce laws over to a very select few people, tell them they can charge whatever they want for their services, and set up inadequate mechanisms for their accountability? I'm not content with our current system, and I  hope to apply a consistent set of logic in the ACAB thread to illustrate my perspective on this subject. Not exactly my angsty 14 year old perspective on cops, but I still bump NWA and think to myself "He makes a good point".

[abrasivesaint]

I think we’re slowly seeing more cops being held accountable. With smartphones in everyone’s hands its hard to deny it sometimes, obviously they also still find a way sometimes. There’s laws that can make an arrest real screwy to protect the cops as well. 

 

For instance, carrying some knives is not illegal in MA. However, carrying a knife while disturbing the peace or being arrested is (technically it’s carrying anything perceived as dangerous)... so you’re out there yelling at cars about the alien invasion and a cop stops you, boom, weapons charge, on top of whatever else obviously. Most of us know how that plays out. You get hit with 3-4 charges, you have a shitty lawyer, you plead out and they drop all but one charge and have a nice day. Probation, fines and fees, Merry Christmas. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

@KILZ FILLZ wait, what? I've never heard that before from a libertarian perspective.

I hold a special hatred for police. 

 

Nobody is really signing up for that job unless they are out of opportunity. And they are signing up for a job to fuck with others with limited opportunity. That kind of betrayal is heinous. 

 

Exceptions - people who come from a family of cops (extra fuck you to them) and returning vets who don't have another avenue for their skillset (GI bill and Wounded Warrior placement will probably make this obsolete). 

 

 

Edit--this reads angrier than I am. I don't take it that serious. Got my own shit to worry about. 

[Mercer]

Here we have a case of police claiming a monopoly on force, so when you're relative is suicidal who do you call? It doesn't matter who you call because you'll get the police. They're not trained to deescalate situations, only confrontation and sometimes they kill the person, most of the time stuff like this happens.

 

 

 

So the victim then has a lawsuit against the police, and when the police do lose the taxpayers pay for it, it doesn't even come out of the departments budget. There's no accountability in most cases, and it's extremely rare for a cop to get locked up.

 

Imagine if the funds they set aside for police misconduct settlements/payouts were rolled into the police unions pension, and then taken out of the pension per settlement, or loss. Instead, our system has almost zero accountability. The cop in the video miraculously ended up getting charged for this, only after he got locked up for something they considered even worse, and they found this video on his phone after they arrested him then added it to his charges later. Mind you, the patient is handcuffed at the hospital, and they were already beating him before this torture video was shot, note the blood already on the bed.

[Mercer]

13 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

I hold a special hatred for police. 

 

Nobody is really signing up for that job unless they are out of opportunity. And they are signing up for a job to fuck with others with limited opportunity. That kind of betrayal is heinous. 

 

Exceptions - people who come from a family of cops (extra fuck you to them) and returning vets who don't have another avenue for their skillset (GI bill and Wounded Warrior placement will probably make this obsolete). 

It's probably less personal and more of a practical matter for me, but I've def been there. I don't question the personal motives, or their backgrounds as individuals any more. I only condemn the individual actions I'm convinced are unjust, and point toward a need for a system that has accountability.

[Mercer]

 

Anything for a conviction, even a false conviction.

 

What are the chances the cops responsible for this got in trouble after the judge found out what they did? 

[Guest]

@Jokersuper shitty you had to relocate because of two fucks not doing their job. 

[Guest]

On 8/12/2019 at 3:38 PM, Mercer said:

It's probably less personal and more of a practical matter for me, but I've def been there. I don't question the personal motives, or their backgrounds as individuals any more. I only condemn the individual actions I'm convinced are unjust, and point toward a need for a system that has accountability.

I don't take it personal, fuck em all. 

[Guest]

Officer Solomon Nhiwatiwa, 34, is charged with attempted kidnapping, pandering obscenity, disseminating material harmful to juveniles, assault, endangering children, child enticement, interfering with custody and public indecency. He is set to be arraigned on Monday. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/cleveland-cop-urinated-on-12-year-old-girl-waiting-for-school-bus-while-recording-on-cellphone-prosecutors-say.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kidnapping.... 

 

 

 

 

[Mercer]

[Mercer]

https://gothamist.com/2019/08/22/job_is_dead_nypd_cops_pantaleo.php

 

A cop was fired for choking a black guy to death (suspected of selling loose cigarettes). Proving police will go to any length to enforce almost any law no matter how minor. Not all cops is questionable, but there's no chance anyone pictured in this photo isn't a fucking tool with a hard on for gang violence of the state sanctioned variety.

 

 

 

[abrasivesaint]

Ya, fuck them.

[Mercer]

 

 

The fucked up thing is one of these rapists is (consensually) fucking an Assistant DA tied to the case. When the DA's office requested a special prosecutor because of this clear conflict of interest the judge became angry, said no, then signed off on letting these violent power abusing gang rapists get off with virtually zero punishment. This is clearly a rape, overwhelming physical evidence, no credible doubts have ever been cast on that fact.

 

They pull a car full of teens over, find weed, then proceed to kidnap this girl then both pigs proceed to rape her for a couple of hours. The girls friends that were with her followed the cops as the started to drive off with her in the van, and the cops called them from a blocked number saying they were going to arrest them if they continued to follow them. Notice it's not just the cops working together to break the law in this case, it's the entire system working together. The judge, the prosecutor that cut the deal, and the entire district attorney's office work together in a criminal conspiracy.

 

With police being caught on tape violating the law over, an over confidence in the justice system is at an all time low here. The word "Criminal" in "Criminal Justice" is increasingly used to describe the people actually running the so called justice system here in NYC. These men were caught red handed handcuffing, kidnapping, and raping an 18 year old girl. The corruption is so commonplace it's numbing.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mercer

[Mercer]

Creepy, and strange story to say the least.

 

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-chief-promotion-wife-daughter/

 

[abrasivesaint]

Amazing he thought he was going to just demand that and get away with it. 

[Mercer]

 

Image making the decision to kidnap someone for saving their own dogs life.

[Guest]

Pure justice! 

 

They are protecting AND serving!! 

[abrasivesaint]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

Image making the decision to kidnap someone for saving their own dogs life.

Arrested for what exactly? 

 

Edit: nevermind, found the story. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by abrasivesaint

[Mercer]

I have certain moral objections to the current system of policing. With that said I'm all for worker's safety, and sometimes following inconvenient precautions to achieve said safety. I might not think the police are pursuing the right crimes and whatever, but feel like  I think police 100% have a right to self defense on the job, just like any other person should from a moral perspective.

 

With that said there are many instances where I end up looking at it from the pro-cop perspective, and actually agreeing with it. Sometimes even going against my own initial reaction to a video, after I give it some thought and think critically instead of emotionally. Here's a perfect example.

 

 

 

My first thought is the guy with the stick looked like a pussy and I'd have no problem with taking out myself using just my hands. IDK though, small chance dude could fuck me up but very slim. I initially thought the officers own laziness was to blame for another unnecessary death. Things aren't always what they seem though, and I ended up ended up clicking on this video below here, that went in depth on this video. I have to admit it changed my perception of this situation. 

 

 

 

 

To me it made sense, like I acknowledge the cop could have tried using hands, but realistically using hands against metal poles means you're going to have a short career if this is your job. If you're dealing with this type of shit on a regular basis sooner or later it catches up. Just like the safety training I've had, I'm sure just for workman's comp reasons alone he'd the cop would be trained to do exactly what he did.

 

Either way, this doesn't change my overall feelings on this subject as a whole like Police pursuing victimless crimes, and a lack of any reasonable accountability in law enforcement. I'm only saying I can understand how logic applies to this, and similar situations where theres a legitimate threat to a cops safety. There are situations where I think use of force is justified. Unfortunately there will always be criminals, and a realistic need to effectively minimize the damage they do somehow.

 

My main point is this video I flipped from blaming what I thought was a negligent officer, to giving them the benefit of the doubt.  Anyone else have thoughts on this guys breakdown?

Edited September 14, 2019 by Mercer

[Guest]

He threw out a lot of hypotheticals but not a single one of them mentioned mace 

[Mercer]

 

1 minute ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

He threw out a lot of hypotheticals but not a single one of them mentioned mace 

Disagree, he said they're trained to only use "less than lethal" which includes mace against something potentially deadly like a metal pole, only when backed up by deadly force, AKA another officer with a gun, or a gun in one hand, mace/tazer in the other.

[abrasivesaint]

I have a few issues with that breakdown.

 

- Important information is left out. The suspect survived. If you just watched the video it would be easy to assume that the suspect is dead. 

- I believe 6 shots were fired, at least thats what it sounds like. 

- He talks about the inaccuracy of a single shot to the leg shot and how i t can be just as deadly or dangerous, which i understand, yet doesn’t discuss how the officer fired multiple rounds to his center mass and the man survived. He either missed a shot or two or the guy is Superman. I understand adrenaline is a hell of a drug but eventually multiple shots catches up to you. 

- “That’s how they’re trained,” isn’t an excuse. Queue the “Nazis were just following orders,” argument. He words it nicely but basically says that they’re trained to kill you. 

- Look at that half ass swing. The reports say the man was reported “swinging” a pipe at multiple people, doesn’t mention that a single person was actually hit. One would have to assume this isn’t Sammy Sosa at bat. 

- Like Kilz said, mace wasn’t mentioned anywhere. He mentioned the “less than lethal,” but not specifically mentioning the other methods would leave ones brain to assume a tazer is the best means of non lethal, and a tazer could be lethal. I’ve been maced, it fucking sucks, a lot. Not saying Superman couldn’t power through it, but it sucks. 

- Could have attempted to corner the dude and waited for backup. 

- He’s a Texas law man. You think he’s never jerked off to the idea of blasting a criminal. (Just trying to be a little fun to finish it off.) 

 

I may have missed a point or two. 

 

This said, i may be slightly biased. I’ve had a run in with Corpus Christi police and it escalated very quickly and almost became physical because the cop was an absolute hard on and i was a moron as a 19 year old. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by abrasivesaint

[misteraven]

Admittedly, I havent watched the video you guys are discussing (will do so asap), but I've had a lot of conversations regarding this topic with people from that community and simplified, the issue with LEO is affirmative action. Yeah, I know I just stepped way over the politically correct line in the sand, but I've heard some pretty compelling testimony from guys that help train LEO. At a certain point, agencies were required to fill quotas so it became about recruiting certain profiles that look great on paper as a balanced, progressive police force, but in reality came down to people that were far from qualified on a fundamental level, whether it be physically, mentally and / or emotionally. Net result after a decade or two of hiring an extremely demanding job based on appearance (ironic as that may be), is that you a whole lot of people that should not be in that role at all. Add in budget cuts and a bunch of other external influence, such as the incentives at the Federal level to militarize LEO (worthy of an entire discussion in itself), coupled with it genuinely being a very high demand job in more ways than one, particularly in the social and political climate we've allowed ourselves to fall into and you have a clear recipe for disaster.

 

I'm not making excuses or believe that any transgressions should be forgiven, but the system is being compromised at its core. 

[abrasivesaint]

Thats not surprising really. I agree there are a ton of people who should not be involved at all, i’ve really been questioning and toying with the idea of more people who are so critical of policing putting their money where their mouth is and signing up. You want “proper” policing, do something about it. People become activists for all sorts of shit, why not a police force? 

[Guest]

Don't they get a pension after 20 years? 

 

Let's get some new blood in there. 

 

Forced retirements like the Navy did about a decade ago. 

[abrasivesaint]

Good question, and not a bad idea. Utilize the Red Flag system to automatically exclude them if they have a Punisher sticker on any of their property. If they’ve watched the Netflix series or movies more than once a year exclude them. 

 

I actually saw something not that long ago where the Punisher creators say they absolutely hate what the symbol has become, haha.

[Mercer]

One of the more Ancap/Lib solutions I see floating around is requiring individual officers to be insured against lawsuits much like doctors are, and the insurance should be required in order to legally perform any LE work. Both as a deterrent, and ultimately as a mechanism that can effectively weed out problem officers by dropping them. 

 

As it stands right now theres virtually no deterrent, or mechanisms in place preventing police misconduct. If they do somehow get caught, ultimately the taxpayers pay for it, and there's virtually zero impact on the department, or the officers involved.

 

Case in point Garner's chokehold was expressly not allowed by department policy, dude killed someone with it (I don't think on purpose but still, he's responsible for a death) and the best they can do is fire him 4 years later, and divert tax funds towards his family like some sort of dystopian lottery. Why? The political blowback for anything they did with the officer including charging him, firing him, not firing him, etc. is tremendous. There will be a large group of politically active people like police union, community orgs, etc pissed off no matter how the city proceeds, which is why it's usually best to do nothing.

 

With this type of insurance in the mix, there's at least someone with the incentive, and the leverage (the current system has neither) to pull the plug on a government employees career to prevent losses from any further lawsuits. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mercer

[Guest]

I like that solution and this is the first time I've heard it. 

[Mercer]

[Guest]

French cop macing French firefighter on strike.

 

 

ACAB.