substanceOVERhype Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYLEISKING Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 "Soup Train" (1981) by Fab 5 Freddy. (Photo: Charlie Ahearn) THE FAB 5 FREDDY DEBATE Last week, in a hotel room in Beijing, I wrote a letter, reacting on Revok’s post called YO’ FAB 5 FREDDIE, YOU’RE A CORNY WANNABE, WHERE’S SEVER’S CHECK. I admit, mine was a bit of an emotional response and I hereby apologize if I stepped on anyone’s toes. And for the record, I did not write ‘MSK is wack’ as Rime claims. I do think this is an interesting topic though, and I hope it can continue without the usual yelling and cursing. I’d like to add this: I think that anyone in entitled to an opinion and mine is that there is a difficult, but interesting relation between graffiti culture and the art world. When someone tries to make the transition from the street to the gallery, you may find it wonderful or wack. I am not a fan of Fab 5 Freddy’s work at all, but I just thought it he didn’t deserve this, since he was one of the first to make that transition. All of us who are selling our art are partly indebted to pioneers like him. Here’s the letter followed by some reactions (unedited): === Why Fab 5 Freddy deserves his check before Sever gets his. By Shoe CIA. Any graffiti writer that didn’t bomb trains in New York during the 70′s and 80′s should shut the fuck up. Period. Everybody in the culture knows this. I realize it’s somewhat of a paradox whilst writing this, but when I read this lame attack on graffiti icon Fab 5 Freddy by Revok I was too tempted to break this unwritten law. In New York, in the the 80′s, there was graffiti and there was hip hop culture. They were one. Futura was hanging out with The Clash, Keith Haring was designing record sleeves for Malcolm McLaren and Blondie sang “Fab Five Freddie told me everybody’s fly, DJ’s spinning I said my, my. Flash is fast, Flash is cool. Francois sais pas, Flashe no deux. Nobody knew what that meant (still don’t) but it did made the world spin faster. Dondi did the video for Buffalo Gals and the rest is history. About ten years later, kids in Germany and California got the message (partly) and started to do their ‘awesome’ letter styles. Catch my drift? That airbrushy-fantasy nonsense is going nowhere. When Bando and I where concentrating on the basics of letters and rocking silvers all across Europe, these soon-to-be graffiti fascists were still in diapers. So, let it be known that when kings like Futura and Lee decide to do a show with Fab Five Freddy you have only one thing to do. Bow down. NSM ps. That suggestion of bitten letters has no foundation whatsoever. === from Revok: Its a shame, i actually respected you at one time… Then you opened your mouth. If i previously had any knowledge of what a fucking idiot you are i would have never agreed to let my work be shown in your gallery. Obviously your completely out of touch with reality and still living in a hip-hop fantasy world, its funny how somebody so removed from our country and its culture can so stubbornly think themselves an authoritative historian… regardless of the back story, That lame Fred is a fraud and a thief. -He’s admitted it so to SEVER and apologized… Everybody is entitled to their own personal opinion, and i appreciate it when folks share theirs… I have no problem with your personal viewpoints even though they are completely delusional and retarded. -however you were very disrespectful Niels, thats where you fucked up. I have no more words for you, i dont wish to talk to you. Dont write me. I’ll see you, open your mouth then. === from Jon 156: Anytime an artist is able to create so much heated debate around his paintings he wins. That’s why Fab5 Freedy is so good. In todays game of internet, photoshop, books. Movies. Videogames. Magazines, galleries. Its so hard to make sense out of this whole circus….. All that I do no. Is the importance of Holland and ur crew Shoe in shaping this movement. When I first saw ur pieces, along with Angel and Delta… I was amazed by how advanced u guys where! And how U where able to bring out a differerent style from out of the context of what I had been seeing. Don’t even try to mention LA style to me during that period. Because it did not exist. They where all TOYS out there. Its only until Seen and Duster. Went out there. Followed by Haze, West FC. Doze. That something started to emerge and guys started to understand what they could do with a spray can. Before that the only thing with true meaning and character. Was gang graffiti. And latter on….. That raw energy crossed into Europe, and also California. Through movies like Wild Style. Fab5. was one of the first to bridge the gap between fine art and Graffiti when he reproduced the Andy Warhol Campbel Soup cans on a train. . But the difference is; that Andy Warhol never bitched to Fab about it. Unlike insecure writers who have problems with there egos…. Jon. === from Rime: Niels, You are completely out of line sending this response out and attacking our work to justify your claims. If our work is “airbrushy-fantasy nonsense that goes nowhere” why did you ask to have our work in your gallery? And why did you come down to LA pushing to collaborate with our crew / Known Gallery in some fashion? Shame on you and your out of touch idea of what graffiti is. Your idea of this magical hip hop rainbow over New York City during the 70′s and 80′s can only be believed by a naive European like yourself. I’m from New York, born there, lived there, and started writing there. My idea of graffiti and the people that do it is not some sort of distant fantasy, that was by chance packaged in a digestable way, and exported to my town. It was happening and was not as sacred and pure as you make it out to be. Anyone is open to being called out for direct plagiarism. There is nothing sacred or divine about so called hip hop. You’re from the countryside of Holland. You happened to go to a Dondi art show and copied that style and are now trying to claim it as your own? I was never influenced by you or Bando whatsoever. Credit Dondi’s canvas work before yourself, and even then you are still out of the loop going 20+ years. You have an outsiders view about graffiti post 1989 and have lost any true understanding of lettering style, trends, or concepts; so your opinion is worthless. Despite our differences in opinion here are the facts: Fab 5 Freddy helped to bring graffiti and Hip Hop into the mainstream with “Wildstyle”, music act tie-ins, and hosting Yo MTV Raps. Not really a writer himself, he did hang around with a lot of notable writers and helped to make shit happen. I grew up watching him introduce music videos and respect his contributions. Just like you Neils, Fab 5 Freddy is completely out of touch with modern graffiti. This would be okay if not for his attempts at making art out of current peoples art. Fact: Creating art for the Three Kings art show, Fab 5 Freddy took a copy of The Exchange book, cut out pieces in the book, poorly collaged them together and ran them through generic filters in photoshop. From there he digitally printed it all onto canvas. The work cut out from the book was used as the centerpiece within each printed canvas. No mention of The Exchange book, the writers work he used or anything related was given by Fab 5 Freddy. Besides Sever, Freddy used parts of a Yes 2 piece done in Los Angeles in 2007, Rime / Bates exchange piece done in Sweden in 2008, and an Aroe / Sever exchange piece done in LA in 2007. This would be cool if he knew whose work he was using, gave credit and explained his intentions. As far as I know he has done none of that and most likely wouldn’t know where to begin. Joe P.S. Be sure to mail back all our art work from the past show. It is your responsibility to cover the return shipping. === from Mode 2: I get what you’re saying Niels, but DUDE, Freddy put his foot in it BIG TIME on this one; EVEN if he is a friend of mine, with whom I’ve been in contact since that Guru-Mc Solaar video from ’92. You know the young ones and the next ones are out there to topple all of us, which I guess is just another take on Darwin’s theory of evolution, no matter what our credentials are; but we only leave ourselves open to this when we go against our own principles. We are judged rather harshly by our present, and whatever we did or failed to do in the past will be used against us in that game. I don’t think that Revok would have even bothered, had the “victim” not been a friend of his. Had Freddy been inspired from somewhere else we wouldn’t even be here. The only thing I can hope for, which is a code that I myself live by, is that he did actually cite where he got his influence from for this last show. Since MoCA, and maybe even a bit before, people are acting kind of strange; like Carmella against you, for instance. We don’t feel that kind of pressure in Europe, but it looks as if they do… This could spark off a very long debate, which I would heartily be part of. Our predecessors laid down the what we were all eventually inspired by; so should anyone of them be “allowed” to re-claim some shit? Who knows? Glad to see you sticking your neck out for Freddy nonetheless until next time… mode interesting topic related to biting here: http://jerseyjoeart.com/2011/09/28/the-fab-5-freddy-debate-continues/ and more here: http://www.calligraffiti.nl/archives/2612 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tramp.stamp Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 somebody play this for Tramp. Im busy. word. not gonna lie this was funny. was kiddin anyway. i love seein the bite. keep them eyes scoped. shitttt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BABY GEE Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 SWAGGER JOCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Tib3- Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Absolutely no similarity there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoknat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 GOTTA aGREE WIT TIB3 THERE NO SIMILARITY AT ALL THERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLEN BENTON Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 won is dope... c'mon son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Tib3- Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Them fire extinguisher pieces him & Jas7 got.... WOOOOOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleazeside Heights Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasp Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 HOLE UP, I GOT A GRIPE OF BLACK PEOPLE LOOK ALIKES/SIZE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toughtaco169 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYLEISKING Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 The Poet Copy someone found it, around 650km away in Schwerte, near Dortmund The Original Poet from Berlin, S1-line in 1993 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_blank_ Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 not seeing it.. :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeWhy-ish Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 was just telling my girl about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drue_Down Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Everybody in the culture knows this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massgraff Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 SOMEONE SHOULD MOVE SEALS GLASSES DOWN TO HIS TEETH/CHEEKS BECAUSE THAT SHIT IS PAINFUL TO LOOK AT. fuck you, that nigga sings like an angel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toughtaco169 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emit_df Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massgraff Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 oh shit, straight from the toy thread by "a mutant rancor" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emit_df Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Nace got it from Gaze (same crew), but if you are rockin' the motion blur, you gotta give it up for the innovators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east_este Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Then I stole it from Nace (same crew)... lol! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFNT Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 how is that a bite? it's a font. Just like old english or western typography that has been used by thousands of writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pertplus1 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 i actually like the josh a lot more than the gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 ok maybe not a bite but the first thing I thought of was Gary when I saw it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON CHEF Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 SUPER GREG VS ALI G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
substanceOVERhype Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injury Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I dont think that josh - gary is a bite. Similar style (font reproduction) but a stright bite? Nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindle Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ohyer(ohey) borrowing the top of horfes H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYLEISKING Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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