Stan Tookie Williams: founder of the crips

[Flavicon]

and by the way, he was CO-founder. Jeez

[CACashRefund]

like that makes a difference

[Krakatau]

Oh shit, he was only co-founder?

 

I guess we have to unkill him then.

[folgers]

on the real half of the replies ive read on this thread has been some of the most ignorant shit that ive ever heard,should he be slayed???personally i cant be the judge of that.considering the good things and the bad things hes done though its obvious to see that death is in his karma.i can tell you this much though him talking about him looking like a snitch to little kids that hes trying to help,you gotta be an oblvious motherfucker to tell me that shit isnt the truth when it comes to younger cats

 

saying that he created a race that kill each other???wrong!!!man decides that shit on his own.but while were on the topic what about movie directors, celebrities any body in general that portray these roles of genocide theyre not helping out. if you ask me i think parents not playing their role is what allows shit like this to happen so often and with ignorant parents cycles like this will repeat themselves.but unlike many parens or people in general he took the time out to reach out to t he youth and even the bloods and the crips..truth is our government doesnt want to help out the gang violence situation and theyre about to prove it, it would be more understandable in my eyes if one of the relatives killed him themselves but truth is either way its not gonna solve shit.

 

 

i lived in a third world ass country for a good amount of my life where starting atleast at 11 or 12 your average kid is ready to stab if not atleast swinging bats at heads and thats not just one area its the whole country i wish we had a cat like this there

[the_gooch]

the guy is dead, who cares. what's done is done. did he deserve to die? yeah i'd say so. you take a life you lose your own. at least that's how i see it.

 

the "son of sam" has been "rehabilitated" in prison, i don't see people crying to set him free. he is all on some born again shit and all of that, but that still doesn't change the fact that he murdered several people.

[Dr. Dazzle]

So I can basically go out and commit any crime I want to, but as long as I write a book about it and get a diploma from behind bars then the crime I did can be overlooked?

 

The guy killed 4 people. Not to mention all the other the Crips have killed since. I couldn't give a shit about his children's books...

[the_gooch]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle@Dec 13 2005, 08:40 PM

So I can basically go out and commit any crime I want to, but as long as I write a book about it and get a diploma from behind bars then the crime I did can be overlooked?

 

The guy killed 4 people. Not to mention all the other the Crips have killed since. I couldn't give a shit about his children's books...

Quoted post

 

 

ding ding ding!!!

 

exactly!

[Guest Sparoism]

The headlines out my way are all about Tookie today.

 

Tomorrow? Probably about Nick and Jessica and those impossibly long lines for Xbox 360s.

 

On another note...my no call/no show coworker rolls in today and when I tell him, "Man, we really needed help yesterday", he tells me that he did too many drugs this weekend and, wow, man, he couldn't make it.

 

ME: "No shit, Sherlock...but, did you at least consider calling ME so I could maybe, you know, cover for you? I would have been pissed, but I'm down to lie for you on general principle if neccessary."

 

HIM: "Ah, well, I'm quitting on the last day of the month anyway, so I don't think it's all that important."

 

ME: "Yeah, great. But, did it occur to you that maybe I might have needed your help? Because I DID need your help, and your cell wasn't turned on...fine, fuck the boss over all you want, but I think hanging me out to dry isn't gonna win you any allies here. And, I'm the last one to tell a guy not to do drugs, but if they're fucking with your judgement calls like that, then I'm gonna speak up."

 

He didn't get it. There is a parallel here, but you'd have to be sharp to catch it. Oh...and nothing happened to him...but if I did this, I'd get reamed.

 

So, I'm looking for a new job.

[YourSistersAssCookie]

Fuck what hes done since he was in Jail.

and why should the state have to house people for 30 and 40 years.

We pay big money in taxes to house those fucks.

Gang members, Rapists, Child Molesters, those people should be put to death bottom line.

Society shouldnt have to foot the bill for a bunch of fuck ups.

Everyone makes mistakes

Not everyone Starts the crips.

And who the fuck lets their kids read a book by a convicted murder?

Its all a bunch of non sense.

I have done my dirt the difference is I know where to draw the line.

People that dont should request their last meal and say a prayer.

idolizing a fucking Gang Leader

Fuck Jessie Jackson and the Rainbow coalition.

[iloveboxcars]

Originally posted by John Birch@Dec 13 2005, 03:31 PM

yeah homie was a sherm head... but I usta do pcp back in school. I loved it, but too expensive for me...the only shit kinda like it is like doing special k or smoking highly concentrated salvia extract...

 

 

pcp is hard to get nowadays, at least in my crowd, but mad fun...

Quoted post

 

 

pcp is pretty easy to come by.

 

 

 

and fuck salvia.

 

<end drug talk>

[Guest Sparoism]

Maybe if the death penalty was handled ina more timely fashion, I wouldn't be so adamantly against it....but, waiting 25 years to die? 25 years is a life sentence in and of itself. That's torture, plain and simple...kind of like being killed twice.

 

The guy did some good, but a lot of people here seem preoccupied with vengeance more than the bigger picture.

 

Oh well, you guys got your wish...he's pushing up daisies and the groundhog delivers his fan mail.

 

But, I'm not gonna let this shit die off like a lot of other good threads have in the past.

 

Or, we can all just forget about uncomfortable topics like this and go see what's going on in the Myspace thread. Who's with me?

[Guest Sparoism]

I've done some leak in my time too...puts your ass on the fucking MOON, kids. Leave it alone. Drink beer, smoke weed. Just don't fuck with the sherm. It's all bad.

 

Now I'm a role model... :rolleyes:

[mackfatsoe]

Originally posted by the_gooch@Dec 13 2005, 07:32 PM

the "son of sam" has been "rehabilitated" in prison, i don't see people crying to set him free.

Quoted post

 

What a ridiculous fucking comparison.

 

I give up.

[Dr. Dazzle]

How is that any different?

[Guest Sparoism]

Originally posted by mackfatsoe+Dec 13 2005, 05:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mackfatsoe - Dec 13 2005, 05:06 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-the_gooch@Dec 13 2005, 07:32 PM

the "son of sam" has been "rehabilitated" in prison, i don't see people crying to set him free.

Quoted post

 

What a ridiculous fucking comparison.

 

I give up.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

ZZZZZIP! (sound of card getting pulled)

 

There was some other factors involved with David Berkowitz's case.

 

MAJOR factors.

 

*NEWSFLASH* "Tookie Dead, What's On TV Tonight?"

[mackfatsoe]

Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle@Dec 13 2005, 08:09 PM

How is that any different?

Quoted post

 

I'm really just repeating myself over and over in here, but I promise this is the last time.

 

Okay, both son of sam and tookie rehabilitated themselves. Fucking hooray. But that is NOT the reason I think Tookie should be allowed to live. He should be allowed to live because the work he does with gang members SAVES LIVES, and in that sense he is a very very real asset to the community in a way that the son of sam never was, rehabilitated or not.

 

Fermentor was right 3 pages ago, agree to disagree.

[Guest Sparoism]

I'm going to SF tonight to have a nice dinner. I'm gonna try to (temporarily) forget about all the things in this country of ours that drive me nuts.

 

I actually like a lot of you guys, and wish none of you any ill will...but I can see that some of us need to read between the headlines a little better so we can figure out where the real story lies.

 

Have fun.

[Guest Sparoism]

And, any and all references to Stanley Tookie Williams should be in the past tense, courtesy of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Tough Love]

Yo yall need to download the song Garbage Dump by Charles Manson

[the_gooch]

Originally posted by mackfatsoe+Dec 13 2005, 09:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mackfatsoe - Dec 13 2005, 09:06 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-the_gooch@Dec 13 2005, 07:32 PM

the "son of sam" has been "rehabilitated" in prison, i don't see people crying to set him free.

Quoted post

 

What a ridiculous fucking comparison.

 

I give up.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

 

what a murderer isn't a murderer?

 

ok so, one killed because he was a psycho, and the other because he was on drugs and a criminal.

 

they both got caught and were doing time and both say/said they were sorry for the murders. oh cause Tookie was involved with gangs, that makes him special? or cause he wrote some childrens books??

 

come on, murder is murder!

[dumy]

wow. some of the responses in this thread..OK POINT BLANK I still stand by the members of Team "Smart" (Sparo, Mack, Fermentor, MERO, etc)..Tookies execution didn't accomplish anything except maybe cementing up some political ties for Ahnold and helping to perpuate the sick beast that is gang culture in this country. I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more today guys work has been hectic, but I'm with you in spirit.

[Harvey Wallbanger]

Whoops.

[the_gooch]

Originally posted by dumy@Dec 13 2005, 10:03 PM

wow. some of the responses in this thread..OK POINT BLANK I still stand by the members of Team "Smart" (Sparo, Mack, Fermentor, MERO, etc)..Tookies execution didn't accomplish anything except maybe cementing up some political ties for Ahnold and helping to perpuate the sick beast that is gang culture in this country. I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more today guys work has been hectic, but I'm with you in spirit.

Quoted post

 

 

No execution ever accomplishes anything, except it helps to give some people a sense of justice (families, relatives of the murdered, raped, etc..).

 

But this boils down to a debate of one being pro or anti death penalty.

[Harvey Wallbanger]

Originally posted by the_gooch+Dec 13 2005, 08:59 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (the_gooch - Dec 13 2005, 08:59 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by mackfatsoe@Dec 13 2005, 09:06 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-the_gooch@Dec 13 2005, 07:32 PM

the "son of sam" has been "rehabilitated" in prison, i don't see people crying to set him free.

Quoted post

 

What a ridiculous fucking comparison.

 

I give up.

Quoted post

 

 

what a murderer isn't a murderer?

 

ok so, one killed because he was a psycho, and the other because he was on drugs and a criminal.

 

they both got caught and were doing time and both say/said they were sorry for the murders. oh cause Tookie was involved with gangs, that makes him special? or cause he wrote some childrens books??

 

come on, murder is murder!

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Actually, Tookie didn't say he was sorry for the murders, he said he didn't commit them. That's why Arnold denied his appeals (allegedly).

[26SidedCube]

Originally posted by iliveinavagina@Dec 13 2005, 09:50 AM

Did you expect more...

 

We live in a moral dictatorship having color or no money is in itself a mechanism of being immoral.

Quoted post

 

I thought this was good.

 

This topic suffers from a classic case of using too many words to say something that isn't all that complicated:

 

You can't kill for the sake of civility.

[Mainter]

close this thread hes dead move on noone cares anymore

[dumy]

Originally posted by the_gooch+Dec 13 2005, 09:09 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (the_gooch - Dec 13 2005, 09:09 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-dumy@Dec 13 2005, 10:03 PM

wow. some of the responses in this thread..OK POINT BLANK I still stand by the members of Team "Smart" (Sparo, Mack, Fermentor, MERO, etc)..Tookies execution didn't accomplish anything except maybe cementing up some political ties for Ahnold and helping to perpuate the sick beast that is gang culture in this country. I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more today guys work has been hectic, but I'm with you in spirit.

Quoted post

 

 

No execution ever accomplishes anything, except it helps to give some people a sense of justice (families, relatives of the murdered, raped, etc..).

 

But this boils down to a debate of one being pro or anti death penalty.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Yeah go back a few pages..last night I was all about the debate on that..

I'm anti death penalty. its a sick irony and I'll have no part of it, I'll leave that up to God.

[dumy]

like I said before...If placed in that situation..I hope I would have the moral aptitude to realize that wishing death upon someone for committing that very same act doesn't bring me any justice or make things better it just makes me a murderer too.

[the_gooch]

Originally posted by dumy@Dec 13 2005, 10:18 PM

like I said before...If placed in that situation..I hope I would have the moral aptitude to realize that wishing death upon someone for committing that very same act doesn't bring me any justice or make things better it just makes me a murderer too.

Quoted post

 

 

i totally understand and respect where you are coming from. i can't say i would feel the same way in that situation and i hope to never know.

 

i look at it like this, the death penality if used correctly, should show criminals: if you do this (whatever the crime in question is) you will die. no questions asked, you will die. that may keep many people in check, but it may not, because some people just don't give a fuck. is that an extreme way of looking at things? sure, but so is raping and murdering people. i'm all for "eye for an eye justice", i just think it can help in keeping some criminals in check and thinking twice before they attempt to do some shit.

 

the system continues to be lax about real crime, i mean some convicts have access to the internet and shit like that while in prison, what's that about?? you murder someone, you rape someone, you don't deserve shit. especially if the tax payers are footing the bill for it!

 

fuck that!

[Milton]

A) It is more expensive to execute someone than it is to keep them in jail for life.

 

B) When we inquire into what the death penalty actually does, there is no real utilitarian jusitification except some quetionable statistics about decreasing murder rates by a very marginal amount.

 

C) The only true justification we have is retributivism. That means, the idea that if you kill, you deserve to die. But then the issue becomes the underlying value set related to "just desserts."

 

1) If you believe for religious reasons, that punishment is deserved, there is no way to convince you otherwise.

 

2) If you believe it because there is an inherent value in punishing, what is that value?

 

3) Are you competent as an individual (are we competent as a society competent) to judge what someone "deserves?"

 

4) Is it even fair to kill human beings without a strong, explicit justification? (ie if someone were going to kill you, you'd want more than "you deserve it" as their justification.)

 

5) Does it take something away from society as a whole that society sanctions killing? Also, is it fair to force members of society who disagree to be placed in the class of people who have sanctioned it?

 

I don't know the answers, but they are interesting questions indeed.

 

Also, the argument that "even if he didn't kill those people, he probably killed other people" is bullshit. He hasn't been charged or convicted of killing other people. The logical result of this argument is that you can punish whoever you want whenever you want because you think they did somethign wrong at some point. That is not how our justice system is supposed to function.