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rubbish heap

INK RECIPE SUPERTHREAD

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Originally posted by nerdx@Sep 22 2005, 09:35 PM

first post.

ive got this zig marker and emptied it, ive got some stamp pad refill ink and i tried using it, but after a few days of rain and stuff its faded like mad.  what can i add to make it stain more?  will leather dye work?

 

also can i thin out some of this sherwin williams floor enamel, like for garaage floors that i have and use it in my marker.

 

how can i test to see if the paint will flow through my nib.  its a zig 2 way glue marker.  i dont want to get it all set up and the paint not flow.

 

 

I've put paint into a zig paint marker. I sort of regret it. The nib does dry out but if you use the paint frequently the the marker should be ok. I found I had better luck with mixing half of the paint from the marker with half of my paint. This may be different with different kinds of paint i was using akrilic (sp?) paint to get nice colors even though they are easy to get rid of (the buff doesnt bother me, it just adds to the game, and yes i do think graffiti is a game.)

 

So in conclusion, experiment. The worst thing that could happen is you learn something and are short a new zig. Be smart don't experiment with otr's or montanas they are too expensive.

 

Side note:My quest for the krink has been slowed, partly because im not sure that i was on the right track have to go back and think about it and try some recipies.

 

Edit: No its not krinks patent but here is some recipies for metallic inks there is a way to make them more permanant and it says it indirectly in the patent. Metal ink link

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Originally posted by nerdx@Sep 22 2005, 06:35 PM

first post.

ive got this zig marker and emptied it, ive got some stamp pad refill ink and i tried using it, but after a few days of rain and stuff its faded like mad.  what can i add to make it stain more?  will leather dye work?

 

also can i thin out some of this sherwin williams floor enamel, like for garaage floors that i have and use it in my marker.

 

how can i test to see if the paint will flow through my nib.  its a zig 2 way glue marker.  i dont want to get it all set up and the paint not flow.

I NEVER put paint in markers, only ink. I use mops for paint, since it's a simple valve designed specifically for thicker mediums like paint or shoepolish. I'll never understand how paint pens work, there's too many tricks to the paint formula for anyone to get it right every single time. This is my opinion, and not a hard and fast rule.

 

As far as what to throw in the Zig (good choice), leather dye is a really good choice, as far as availability and staining power. I like Fiebing's USMC black leather dye the best, but it's a professional product and it's a bitch to find. Griffin is awesome value and works great. Lincoln Is okay, but not on the same level as the first two. Kiwi should be thrown out so the mop can be useful.

 

Look around for inks, too...try to get Pilot or something solvent based. Procolor stamp ink is good, and really easy to find. Garvey ink is hard to find, and well worth it if you do..it stains like crazy and is purple, to boot.

 

Floor enamel? If it's alkyd, it's way too thick to put in anything but a squeeze bottle. Alkyd is great for drip tags, since it takes a jackhammer to get it off the ground, and your tags will run for years.

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hopefully this isnt a completely retarded question, but ive done extensive reading/searching of this forum and cant seem to find the answer im looking for. my question is: is it ok to put Marsh T-grade ink in a plastic marker such as a OTR? im asking because when i read the ingredients on the side of my can of marsh, i see Xylene as an ingredient and ive seen many posts saying that products containing xylene shouldnt go in plastic containers/markers. on the other hand, ive seen some posts where people said they put marsh in their OTR or other plastic markers. whats the deal?

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Originally posted by deathmetal.@Sep 23 2005, 02:11 AM

hopefully this isnt a completely retarded question, but ive done extensive reading/searching of this forum and cant seem to find the answer im looking for. my question is: is it ok to put Marsh T-grade ink in a plastic marker such as a OTR? im asking because when i read the ingredients on the side of my can of marsh, i see Xylene as an ingredient and ive seen many posts saying that products containing xylene shouldnt go in plastic containers/markers. on the other hand, ive seen some posts where people said they put marsh in their OTR or other plastic markers. whats the deal?

Go for it! I fill all my pens with T-grade and Garvey, and I haven't had any major problems...Sometimes you'll run across one pen that goes bad, but it's pretty rare. If you're worried about leaks, put the pen in a plastic bag or a rubber glove when you're carrying it.

 

Mostly, make sure the top is screwed on tight and that the body isn't cracked. Those are the reasons almost all my pens have leaked.

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Originally posted by shai hulud@Sep 23 2005, 03:53 AM

I NEVER put paint in markers, only ink.

 

ah but the woodcraft markers are made for paint.

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I just have bad luck with pens and paint not working well together. I guess I should note that as an opinion...I'll go edit it after this. It is a pretty good rule of thumb, though, if you don't have much experience with refilling pens. I've been mixing paint forever, and I'm lucky if I get it right a third of the time...and seeing as how I have worked in a paint store, I should have it down, but I don't...and I'm pretty methodical, to the point of taking notes on ratios and mixes.

 

What's funny, is that I really like the royal blue woodcrafts a lot...I usually use up the blue stuff in them, and then wash them out and refill them with ink.

 

What's your trick to getting your mix to flow and still be opaque? I always seem to add too much solvent, or not enough. And, I try to match the solvent to the paint, too...I'm fine with using ink, but I'm curious now.

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If you look at the woodcraft paint its really thin almost ink cosistancy what I do is go very slowly add a little thinner then repeat until you get the desired flow. Just note different paints are more opaque than others whites tend to be more opaque than say red but if you mix a bit of white into a more translucent color it will go a bit further but you will lose some of the saturation, its a trade off.

 

I use:

Acrylic flow release for acrylic paints.

 

In general if i want to know how to do something like thinning paint I will go to a paint store not home depot and make up some bogus story about wanting to make a custom paint pen for touch up jobs for my mother. Add the mom part it makes them suspect less. No O.G. would talk about being wipped by his mother. You can replace mother with wife/girlfriend.

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fuck man will adding powder pigments to a solvent make some stainers? ill rpolly mix some marsh like substance to make it more opaque if i need to..................whatever if no one answears cuz ill prolly answear myself

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thats potassium permanganate, if a pure grain gets wet and touches your skin it leaves a brown mark, which could last a very long time depending on how long its in contact. itl also turn most inks a lurrvley shade of purple depending on how much used. And increases the staining power awhole lot.

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Oh ok. I forgot to mention that you can get liquid paints and also there are chemicals called opacifiers such as ropaque. I dont know how to use them but I'm sure you can find out with some research.

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ok, so you say no go on the paint in the marker, but what if i thin it down like mad to a pertty much ink consitancy. also if i really dont mind about the nib because i can jusst use a peice of an eraser evertime it dries out, then would it be ok. or is there a problem with thepaint actaully goign throught the nib, or the valve system?

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Originally posted by MAR@Sep 23 2005, 02:00 PM

Oh ok. I forgot to mention that you can get liquid paints and also there are chemicals called opacifiers such as ropaque. I dont know how to use them but I'm sure you can find out with some research.

Oh, I was talking about oil-based stuff...but, maybe I can find some oil-based opacifiers. It's not a big deal to me, but someone here will get some mileage out of them. If I find them, I'll put them here.

 

Most of my fine art is done with Liquitex acrylics and mediums. Also, I use Winsor and Newton gouache and the cheapest gesso I can get...all my blackwork is either Golden Carbon Black Fluid acrylic, or Pelikan black india ink with Speedball pens...I like Robert Simmons sable brushes, too, especially the signpainter set.

 

What do you like to use for fine art?

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there are liquid oil based paints they are just harder to find. ropaque i believe is for oil based paints. did you look at the ink recipies in the link kinda curious about them.

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ok, i got a few questions about garvey (probably aimed at shai but anyone with knowledge on the subject is welcome to chime in).

 

first of all, my mix is just straight garvey and a couple of drops of brake fluid per marker. ive been strictly hitting stations and insides with this recently (just finally got my hands on some garvey not too long ago). at one station i hit bare metal and a painted surface. i rolled by it the next day and it had a buff attempt thrown at it but was still very visible. i rolled by it a few days later and both were completely gone. the metal is clean and the painted surface is clean (doesnt even appear to have been painted over, just buffed). is that normal? when people talk about garvey staining so hard, is that for only one buff attempt? oh, and since this was a subway station, i know sunlight couldnt have affected anything.

 

as for train insides, i have yet to recatch any of my shit yet but im hoping garvey holds up better on the plastic surfaces found inside the train. i had an idea today and wanted to ask if you have done it before and if it sounds like something that might help with permanence. what if i was to use sandpaper or something to scour the plastic surface before hitting it? would it help it to sink in deeper and make it harder to completely buff? perhaps thats overkill, but i am just unsure how garvey will hold up after seeing how fast it was gone at the stations.

 

one last question... whats the minimum drying time for garvey on various surfaces? by minimum, i mean whats the minimum for it to stain pretty decently? i assume that could have been a factor with the buffed station i talked about but id also just like to know for the hell of it. thanks to anyone with info.

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Originally posted by MAR@Sep 24 2005, 05:28 PM

there are liquid oil based paints they are just harder to find. ropaque i believe is for oil based paints. did you look at the ink recipies in the link kinda curious about them.

I'll PM a few of my mixes to you, but you should know in advance that some of the ingredients are going to be hard to find anywhere...I might have a site to sell that kind of ish on soon, if I get a couple of lucky breaks.

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To deathmetal (Obituary? Broken Hope?)-

 

1)Garvey is as good as any other ink on non-porous surfaces, meaning that if you write with it on metal or enamel, it's gonna come off after the second or third buff. So, everything being equal in this regard, anything I use on metal I would expect to last until they got the right solvent to remove it. Mean streaks seem to be the best thing going, since the only way to remove them is to sand or chisel off the paint. I've heard a little bit about an ink that has an etching component in it that's used for writing on IC boards, but I've never tried it...might be what you're looking for, but it costs $150 a gallon, it's impossible to find (yes, I've tried) and if it's caustic enough to eat into silicon, I'd hate to see what it would do to bare skin....ugh. Brake fluid isn't all it's cracked up to be, btw. I actually found that it's formulated to NOT be corrosive, since if it was, it would eat through brake lines and therefore be more of a liability. I'd add PP (potassium permanganate) or gentian violet since they are actually made to stain surfaces, but I have limited first-hand experience with these and therefore cannot vouch for them, beyond what I've heard here and from friends who have tried them.

 

2)I've thought of sanding stuff before to prime the surface, but I expect transit to get buffed quickly and I'm not sure if it's worth the added effort. It is a good idea, though. I was going to take a piece of griptape and wrap it around my pen, then just give it a few quick swipes before I hit it. How about that?

 

3)XK-70 (Garvey) has an advertised contact dry time of 45-90 seconds. As a rule, I'd take that time and multiply it by ten...so, 15 minutes seems to be a good number. Hope all this helps.

 

And, here is the newest in new in my arsenal (drum roll, please).....

 

[attachmentid=22056]

 

The first bottle is Specialty ink, black acetone base. One of the best inks I've ever found...it's like Pilot, but better. And, I doubt it's made anymore thanks to the EPA.

 

The second one is a can of BLUE marsh. Harbor blue. Need I say more? I'm going out with a mop of this tonight, I think.

 

The little guy is Tria Pantone black process, to refill Chartpaks with.

 

Finally, I have some good GOT-DAMN shit to roll with...I'll post photos of the damage later. :ballcap:

aero.jpg.4c8dadf6dd797851f2bd9d34aed9eae8.jpg

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really nice idea about griptape around the marker. useful for preparing the surface and have some added grip for the marker. i think im going to look into that for sure. also, is there even really any point for me to add that little bit of brakefluid everytime i refill the ink?

 

man i really hope you start up a little online ink store. im sure id be interested in just about everything you would stock. if theres anything i can help you with to get it goin, let me know.

 

and yea, i can definitely get down with some broken hope. other bands im really into are origin, psycroptic, disavowed, deeds of flesh, krisiun, etc etc... graff and metal is kind of a rare mix i suppose.

 

PS - whats your take on this? looks like garvey to me but was wondering what you thought. thats the kinda stain i could live with :)

 

hardstainer1ma.jpg

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Originally posted by shai hulud@Sep 22 2005, 01:13 AM

Don't make fun...

 

No, I've been looking for a good WB silver. Someday when I have "disposable income," I'll go to my local Dick Blick and get some...have you used it to cover anything or on dark paper, and how does the opacity hold up if it's thinned? Let me know if you tested these.

 

[attachmentid=21784]

 

Here's some more- on the right, One-Shot is still the best paint I've ever used. Period. It's what signpainters have used for decades, and use to this day. It comes in dozens of colors, with five different formulas. The two main problems are...1) It's pricey....if you can find it, it's $4 for 4 oz. 2) It contains lead, and is therefore really toxic, but it is 100 % weatherproof...tags I did with it on metal grates are still going strong after three years of sun, rain, and feet. It requires a special "reducer" to thin it correctly, which changes only the fluidity, and not the opacity, so it will work in a mop...however, I only use a little at a time since it eats plastic in a hurry. It will not work in a pen- don't bother. It's worth having if you want to experiment with this...but, I only recommend this paint to people who have some painting/fine art experience, and know how to take precautions with lead paint.

 

On a less serious tip, Odds 'n Ends to the left is great, since it's easy to find, cheap and not as bad for you as One-Shot. It thins with almost anything, but like most oil-based paint, it's tricky to get it thin-but-not-streaky without practice. I usually use a little xylene. Once you get it right, it's a nice, long-lasting opaque paint. It also has a good (40+) color selection. Weatherproof, works well in mops, and can be used to refill some paint pens in a pinch, with varying results.

 

can we just use the regular "odds and ends" just throw that fucker in a pen den i'll work? will is last long time a permenet?? sorry i'm curious.

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