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Joker

Backlash Against Nike for New Colin Kaepernick Ad

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/45407340

 

I don't follow football at all, like zero, but I'd have to live under a rock under a mountain to not know who this guy is, and why he's constantly in the media. 

 

It is my understanding that he's one of the best NFL quarterbacks in the league (though not currently playing), but he was fired for silently protesting by not standing during the national anthem. And as such has become the face of a movement. 

 

It is also my understanding that you are either on one side of this story, or the other... and that has me really confused. I'm trying to understand why someone would hate him for silently protesting for what he believes in. The more I read about this story and how it continues to unfold I can't help but think that those on the opposing side of the story are against Colin and his supporters because they don't fully understand the cause of his protest. I think they see the surface and make their judgements from there, but it doesn't take a genius to read the deeper meaning of his, and others in the NFL (who are currently playing), reasons for protesting. 

 

I also find it weird that opposers would all of a sudden dislike Nike because of the new ad when they've supported and sponsored Colin for the seven years. Maybe they didn't know??

 

Anyway, I'm not looking to get into a big debate on this one, I'm more looking for real answers as to why someone would not like or support this guy. It's not like he's Lance Armstrong and treated people like shit on top of cheating the public and his peers. 

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I'm still trying to figure out when the hell standing during the anthem became compulsory in the first place.  They didn't even make us do that in grade school, although most people did out of habit.  I don't remember our high school even having anyone sing it, although you could go out for a flag-raising ceremony where they did in the morning if you felt like it. According to various news sites / info I can find this wasn't even a thing in the NFL until 2009 and an attempt at making it a law was struck down as unconstitutional multiple times. 

 

I'm in the boat of still being amazed anyone is making a big deal about this, so I can't answer your question.  Instead, I'll leave this quote from Night Watch by the late Terry Pratchett here:

Quote

“Tom?”

“Yes, Clive?”

“Have you ever sung the national anthem?”

“Oh, lots of times, sir.”

“I don’t mean officially.”

“You mean just to show I’m patriotic? Good gods, no. That would be a rather odd thing to do,” said the captain.

“And how about the flag?”

“Well, obviously I salute it every day, sir.”

“But you don’t wave it, at all?” the major enquired.

“I think I waved a paper one a few times when I was a little boy. Patrician’s birthday or something. We stood in the streets as he rode by and we shouted ‘Hurrah!’”

“Never since then?”

“Well, no, Clive,” said the captain, looking embarrassed. “I’d be very worried if I saw a man singing the national anthem and waving the flag, sir. It’s really a thing foreigners do.”

“Really? Why?”

We don’t need to show we’re patriotic, sir. I mean, this is Ankh-Morpork. We don’t have to make a big fuss about being the best, sir. We just know.

 

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I believe the National Anthem became a thing some 25 or so years ago. It was a marketing effort by the US military if I'm not mistaken as they regularly sponsor sporting events as it attracts an audience that skews patriotic and also because the ideal athlete is probably a good candidate for the military. With few making it into the pro's I suppose their thinking is maybe the military would make a good fall back. Really that's another discussion entirely.

 

That being said, I mistakenly said pledge of allegiance which in fact has a lot of bearing on this. They're standing for the Star Spangled banner which is our National Anthem. Nobody is pledging allegiance to anybody here and to stand for it is a universal sign of respect that generally anyone would observe, whether its the national anthem of your own country or some other.

 

In any case, I think it makes completer sense in this context as sports represent some of whats best about a country. That we live in a country where someone can make an amazing life from playing sports professionally. That we can all come together and cheer our favorite teams and partake in a friendly competition that helps determine the best of the best of what the country has to offer for that sport. 

 

 

 

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I disagree. This subject is so complicated, it could be discussed on a 3 hour podcast and still not cover half the complex issues at play here. Personally disagree with the narrative behind Black Lives Matter because it's turned a matter of serious concern (police brutality & excessive uses of force) into misguided race identity politics IMO. If it weren't for the race identity politics which I think are bullshit, I'd be 100% down with the cause. That said, I'm also not down with the backlash, which is just another form of divisive identity politics, counterproductive to domestic interests. 

 

 

Black Lives Matter

 

The laws & policies designed to allow officers to conduct law enforcement business were designed for an environment where we had to rely on their word, because the alternative would have made their job impossible to do safely. With that said, it's 2018, and most people have a 4K video recording device in their pockets. We need to at least be able to examine/question the actions of officers that result in the shooting of unarmed subjects now, regardless of how inconvenient that is for the legal system.

 

Here's where the problem lies, Black Lives Matter is a race identity movement that once again focuses entirely on casting black people as victims, 60 years after the civil rights movement started, and 50 years after the civil rights act passed. Since the 60's, all the progress black people seemed to be making in this country as compared to white people since the civil war has stopped, and has actually reversed in many regards. If you don't think it's a race identity game, try explaining Deray's famous "I love my blackness, and yours" shirt, and other BLM leaders drinking from cups labeled "white tears". To me, that shit is silly,  but if white people did the same thing they would be attacked hard, or at the very least ostracized by other whites. This obvious double standard is a problem for anyone who actually understands equality.

 

This is the reason why the backlash against BLM isn't confined to people we consider just traditional American racists, and why the backlash is much more mainstream. That's not to say your average cousin fucking hillbilly isn't against BLM, but the fact is, the backlash goes well beyond over zealous supporters of inbreeding, and is practically mainstream They see this as an attack against the foundation of American solidarity, and at it's very best, an attack against the police. I also don't share this backlash view, 1 because fuck cops, 2 because it's also turning into an identity politics counter movement that is just as misguided/unproductive as the first one.

 

 

Nationalism & Sports

 

Because I was an Army brat, I spent 6 years in Germany as a kid, and because of this had my perspective shifted. I remember all the Army brats would go to classes in the German school as a group occasionally, to help us learn the German language and take advantage of our location. Likewise the German kids would come to our school for the same reasons. I remember they would freak the fuck out if they saw us standing up in the morning, and pledging allegiance to the flag. That would be a serious crime in Germany. I don't think we truly have a perspective on just how nationalistic we are as a country.

 

Standing for the national anthem is at the core of American nationalism, football is also somewhere in that core neighborhood. People without the ability to step out of their own biases and perspectives, view Colin taking a knee as an attack on their personal identity. My parents (Both life long Army/DOD careers) got deeply offended, and immediately took that gesture as "he hates the troops", "he hates America", as opposed to seeing someone making a statement, and actually trying to improve America whether they thought it was misguided or not.

 

While most of us on here have been accomplished enough , with regards to finding & establishing our own identities through accomplishments, most people aren't as lucky. The sad thing is there's actually nothing special about the vast majority of people, including most Americans, so to them  the local sports team, where they were born (and will most likely die within a few miles of), and things like standing up for the flag are the only things they have to build their identity capitol. They get just as offended as we do when we hear someone go on a moronic anti graffiti "get a job" rant, or go against whatever the other components of our identities are made up of.

 

 

Nike 

 

While I think BLM is misguided at best, and causing a much bigger counterproductive backlash at worst, I can understand why Nike would be interested in cashing in on Colin's situation. Here we have someone who clearly believes in something, willing to sacrifice everything for that belief actually out there walking the walk while the rest of us just talk the talk. That's a very powerful image, and weather you agree with his beliefs or not, you have to admit giving up that much for your beliefs/principals is inspiring.

 

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I follow this from afar and for different reasons and as a vet in my own country I would not begrudge anyone peacefully protesting. I also think the reification of flags is childish. People don’t “fight for the flag”, we fight for a multitude of reasons, many times because it’s a job. 

 

Agree with Mercer that the identity wars and foreign actors have hijacked and manipulated the situation and the polarization of US society is a real risk and a danger. Pity you have a president who is fueling it for political gain as well. 

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@Merceryou’re already well past the point I’m making. I’m not critical of the validity of what is being protested, though I personally have a hard time taking his gripe seriously considering he’s a multi million dollar earning professional athlete.

 

It’s that he’s literally at work. His unique profession as a professional athlete includes standards of conduct. His actions, while on the clock and in the spotlight have consequences and his actions, while in uniform reflect on his team mates, as well as his league.

 

Again, he can protest anything from GMO’s to genocide and it’s besides the point. He’s being paid big money to perform a certain task with the ultimate goal of winning a championship and increasing the equity of his team and franchise. 

 

Instead, he injected a personal opinion and protest, leveraging the platform allowed by his profession, which had the consequence of taking attention off what he’s actually being paid to do and in fact directly led to lower attendance / interest (due to counter protests), which in turn has lost revenues for his team and the league as a whole. 

 

People watch sports, at least in part for enjoyment and a break from all the shit you see on the news. This dude took it upon himself to switch the conversation to something he wanted to discuss. 

 

Im simply saying that regardless of what the discussion is that he wants to have (Or it’s validity), it’s the wrong time and the wrong place. 

 

And for Nike to turn it into a statement of “sacrifice everything” is just insincere at best, and at worst, hugely disrespectful to the people out there who’ve indeed sacrificed everything. 

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Marketing is insincere you say?!

 

 

sarcasm aside, technically you have a point but I think it’s a little redundant as you’re begging the question that he can still satisfy his responsibility of playing the game, whether he has support of his team and many other questions  (his protest also  lasts for a short few mins before the game even starts. I think you may be overstating the impact on his core role). 

 

Second, I think social issues, especially those that concern liberty, life and the acceptable use of force against private citizens far outweighs the sanctity of sporting entertainment. 

Edited by Hua Guofang

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@misteravenI hear your point, and as far as I'm concerned if you're in a contract/agreement with the NFL and don't fulfill your end, or break the contract they have every right to deny you more opportunities to continue doing so. The NFL is a private organization with it's own goals, and image to protect. IMO your freedom of speech is limited to where you represent yourself, not when you're misrepresenting an organization that doesn't share the views you're expressing.

 

The point I was making is more at the real reason people have a problem with what he's doing. If we're honest here (which ironically a white male may not be allowed to be in today's environment) the problem people have with what he's doing has nothing to do with a employer/employee 1st amendment technicality (again irony), and has more to do with the message, and the way it expressed disregards the norms of American nationalism.

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19 hours ago, misteraven said:

I believe the National Anthem became a thing some 25 or so years ago. It was a marketing effort by the US military if I'm not mistaken as they regularly sponsor sporting events as it attracts an audience that skews patriotic and also because the ideal athlete is probably a good candidate for the military. With few making it into the pro's I suppose their thinking is maybe the military would make a good fall back. Really that's another discussion entirely.

 

Seems vaguely right.  I guess it didn't hit the area I lived in right away or everybody there was too laid back to care.  I'm betting on the laid back part now that I'm remembering more about my high school, but that's also another discussion.  😄 😄

 

 

 

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I suppose I was mostly curious if those who oppose CK and Nike, right now, are doing so because CK won't stand for the flag or if there's something else at play here. It's easy to say they're doing so because they don't like black people, but I'm wondering if it's more about being uninformed and making decisions based purely on information gathered from social media or biased news sources. Honestly, I think a good portion of those who oppose CK's protest are doing so because they don't really understand it, and are doing so blindly because their peers are... which seems to be the new normal. 

 

To be clear, I don't know anything about CK other than this story, so maybe I'm missing something that has shifted people to really dislike him other than the protest. 

 

I don't know why I'm curious about this as I normally don't really care or involve myself in this kinda stuff at all. That said, the last two or three years it's been hard to not have an opinion on things, especially politics... which as a non-voter I don't really talk about. Seems like you can't go to a pub or party or a bike ride with friends, or anything, without politics or stories like this coming up. And if you stay quiet during the conversation, which I tend to do, those around you eventually ask your opinion. 

 

 

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I see this all as a distraction from both sides of the aisle

 

and nike cashing in and banking on sales made from the attention....their last quarter sales were slipping as opposed to Adidas

 

the collabs nike has been doing lately doesn't seem to be enough, it seems

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5 hours ago, Joker said:

I suppose I was mostly curious if those who oppose CK and Nike, right now, are doing so because CK won't stand for the flag or if there's something else at play here.

 

I don't know why I'm curious about this as I normally don't really care or involve myself in this kinda stuff at all. That said, the last two or three years it's been hard to not have an opinion on things, especially politics... which as a non-voter I don't really talk about. 

I can only speak for myself, but if you haven't read my previous comments, I'm against it for basically two reasons... Far and away my biggest issue is that it seems to be the strategy du jour to be as divisive as possible. Again, I think there's a much larger agenda at play, but every since the occupy movement, it seems that there's a line drawn in the sand and if you don't take one side or another, then "you don't have a right to an opinion", which I see to be complete horse shit. Again, everyone please listen to this: http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/the-great-lie-of-dichotomy

 

Humans have evolved well past navigating the world in binary terms and I can't see this willingness to partake in binary dichotomy. Eagerness to pick a side and oppose the opposite side vehemently as a default position on just about every point... No good will come of it and again, among the oldest war strategies in human existence: Divide Et Impara (Divide and Conquer).

 

Beyond that, its a slippery slope for an individual to follow a personal agenda when working on the dime of an employer, never mind leveraging their employers platform / network / reach to their own means. 

 

Collectively, this will all culminate in a precedent, and later, a situation that is far worst for all of us and in this specific instance I especially can't ignore that even if his original sincere intention was to bring attention to a topic he's passionate about, that it's been nothing but absolutely counter productive pretty much ever since. Awesome if he wants to remedy / improve a group of people that have had the shit end of the stick, but is that really what any of this nonsense will result in?

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2 hours ago, glorydays said:

I see this all as a distraction from both sides of the aisle

 

and nike cashing in and banking on sales made from the attention....their last quarter sales were slipping as opposed to Adidas

 

the collabs nike has been doing lately doesn't seem to be enough, it seems

Having the professional background that I do, I certainly understand how engineering emotional attachments to product and brand is a fundamental strategy in demand creation, but this does in fact wreak of either poor decision making or desperation. I can also get how trend is often a reflection of the social consciousness, but companies need to know when to stay out of the conversation, rather than appropriate it to sell more product. Go back to the drawing board and develop compelling product and then find narratives that are both meaningful AND appropriate.

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Thanks @misteravenfor the insights. I did read your previous posts (in both threads), but I'm glad you weighed in on what others might be thinking, too. 

 

I'm listening to that podcast after lunch...

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@JokerCool... And again, this is simply my opinion. Obviously everyone has the right to their own opinion and that's a large part of the takeaway here... Isn't always (and usually is not) a matter of right and wrong (at least in regards to the side of this about protesting while at work). We can all respect each other without necessarily agreeing. More than anything, and in part what CK is fighting for is equality. You only get that when you aren't backed into a corner or otherwise disrespected or even victimized because of a difference. Doesn't matter if it's skin color or ideology so long as we can live and let live, despite the differences.

 

That being said, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the podcast once you've had the opportunity to listen to it.

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21 hours ago, misteraven said:

Having the professional background that I do, I certainly understand how engineering emotional attachments to product and brand is a fundamental strategy in demand creation, but this does in fact wreak of either poor decision making or desperation. I can also get how trend is often a reflection of the social consciousness, but companies need to know when to stay out of the conversation, rather than appropriate it to sell more product. Go back to the drawing board and develop compelling product and then find narratives that are both meaningful AND appropriate.

i completely agree, this is a cheap way of garnering sales and support from a lagging quarter.

Nike wasn't even in this fight lol. 

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2 hours ago, misteraven said:

That being said, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the podcast once you've had the opportunity to listen to it.

@misteravenyeah, that was definitely an interesting listen. He certainly had some valid points regarding personal dichotomy and how it skews even simple, logical thinking. Example being Facebook posts/reposts that seem so incredibly insane there's no way it can be true, yet if it falls into your ideology you wouldn't question it for a second, and ultimately you repost it. As simple an explanation as that is, it's such an easy example that really defines our current state. Some of the podcast dug into his own personal ideology, which is fine... I mean, it's his podcast, but I didn't agree with all of it. 

 

I feel the take away was believe in what you believe, no matter what it is, but make sure what you believe is accurate and that you are being told the truth. Easier said than done, I'm afraid, as reputable resources are becoming more and more difficult to find. Easily the main reason I closed my Facebook account. Like most, I have friends who are on one side of the fence or the other, and my feed had become one bogus news story after another, with hundreds of comments from followers who fell for every word. And every time the story seemed so far-fetched that some quick research would break down the story was false, and where the images originated from, and often how the story was based on somewhat relatable stories but had been so skewed and fabricated that their connection had become impossible to make.

 

I'm slowly becoming that guy who doesn't listen to news, read papers or even online articles. I've no idea if shit is accurate or biased. I just want to know what's going on in the world but I'm getting more and more to the point where I couldn't care less about Trump or Korea or plastic in the ocean or homelessness or shitty people on scooters... what I need is a home in the middle of nowhere that I can close off the world from inside and pick my nose in peace. 

 

Thanks for sharing the podcast!

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2 hours ago, Joker said:

I'm slowly becoming that guy who doesn't listen to news, read papers or even online articles. I've no idea if shit is accurate or biased. I just want to know what's going on in the world but I'm getting more and more to the point where I couldn't care less about Trump or Korea or plastic in the ocean or homelessness or shitty people on scooters... what I need is a home in the middle of nowhere that I can close off the world from inside and pick my nose in peace. 

HA! I stopped listening to the news about the time I moved up to Montana. Amazing how well you relate to exactly what I was / am feeling. I have kids and would like to believe I'm a decent human being, but like you said, everything has spun so far out of control that at this point my only reaction is to just tune it all out. Obviously I also relate to your comment about having a home in the middle of nowhere, LOL!

 

I really enjoy that guys podcasts. Very few are political. In fact the vast majority are permaculture topics or homesteading. He's often clear in saying that he's just some guy following his own path and that what makes us great is the ability to use our brains and figure out what's best for us, so long as it doesn't come at the expense of someone else. I also don't agree with every position he takes, but in regards to the fundamentals and the important stuff, I find he makes a ton of sense.

 

I've discussed a bunch of this at various times (and in bits and pieces) with @6Penniesand what I see as one of the largest issues threatening this country is that we've been systematically conditioned to no longer apply, let alone celebrate, logic and individual critical thinking. Coupled with a very real lack of individual responsibility and accountability and we have a recipe for disaster. 

 

I think if people started putting half the energy they apply towards keeping up with every issue spoon fed to them by the media and believing that by retweeting, reposting and double tapping memes, they're somehow engaged and participating in a solution, and instead look inwards... We'd all be better off.

 

Case in point, from my own personal experience... If I had a dollar for each time I've heard passionate (angry) statements about climate change when I lived in NYC... I'd be a millionaire. Yet all I ever see is people parrot back stats they gathered off a meme and maybe somewhat consistently throw their empty Starbucks cup into the proper bin for recycling. People will scream about Trump pulling out of the Climate Accord (whole other topic there), yet make zero meaningful change in their own lives to perhaps walk the earth just a little bit softer.

 

Likewise, it was amazing to me that the very people that claimed to be progressive and open minded, we're the most savage once it was revealed that you took a different point of view on any given subject that was getting media attention.

 

Now I just have my quiet corner up here in the mountains. I'm learning to grow more and more of my own food. I've cut my electricity bill to 1/4th what it was, while living in a house 3x the size. We compost all we can, eat healthy and live in a pretty good balance with all the nature we're surrounded by. I don't read or watch the news at all and I'm barely on social media any more. I figure if its really that important, I'll find out about it. When something does hit my radar, and it interests me, I'll maybe see if I can dig down to the source, which is almost as much about the quest to track it down than it is about revealing truth. 

 

I've found that that the time, energy and anxiety I used to squander on issues that in truth I couldn't affect in any way, gives me a lot more to work with and apply towards the things I can.

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