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JesusMachine

Cryptocurrency

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So I'm sure you all have seen the hype and recent gains from bitcoin and other alt coins.

 

I was able to grab small amounts of bitcoin, litecoin and ethereum when the upswing was starting.

 

I would like to purchase some Ripple/ XRP but buying it is cunty as fuck. I think the easiest way to purchase XRP is buying it with LTC. If anybody has insight in this please chime in.

 

Also when buying alt coins with other alt coins does that become a tax event? It never changed to USD so my assumption is that it's not a tax event. Meaning, I don't want to get taxed capital gains.

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Suggest using the Exodus wallet, don't hold all of your investment on any exchange including coinbase.

When signing up, make sure to WRITE DOWN your 16 word mnemonic passphrase.

Don't print it, don't save it anywhere on your computer, and for sure as fuck don't save it online or in the cloud.

Just write it down and practice memorizing it.

 

Exodus has shapeshift built into it so you can change between cryptocurrencies very easily.

 

Also, as a matter of opinion from a somewhat seasoned altcoin investor, I don't recommend buying into any altcoin that's had a huge runup recently which includes ripple.

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For anyone interested in extreme nerding, this videos is a good introduction to understand what cryptocurrencies are.

 

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Crypto on the oontz

 

The world I grewed up in is gone

 

Funny thing is, I was introduced to bitcoin by Lord Casek way back in the day right here on the oontz. I can only assume he's a multimillionaire right now.

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Yea, that's what they said when bitcoin was at $10, then when it was at $100, and then when it was at $1000, and then when it was at $10,000.

 

It's hovering just under $20,000 right now.

 

It's hard for even experts to predict the future value of a brand new asset class. The closest thing we have to compare is the dot com bubble that burst in 2000/2001. That said, that bubble burst at a $10 trillion dollar market cap and has since fully recovered. I'm not saying people don't value websites, but I do think most people value currency over websites. I'm so used to hearing bubble by now it's almost meaningless. Sure, it's volatile and I'm sure there's going to be some sharp declines in the future, but my best guess is that those drops will be dwarfed by the gains eventually.

 

Think about it like this, do you think the United States currency is a safer bet. Keep in mind these facts:

 

1. The US dollar is backed by absolutely nothing, just like bitcoin

2. The US is currently Trillions in debt, and the most recent tax cut will put us trillions more in debt.

3. As the rich cash out, most of the burden is being shifted to the middle class, which is becoming restless

4. The middle class isn't prepared for the next wave of automation that's currently being deployed

5. The only thing the people in charge learned from the last financial crisis was that they can get away with it

 

I could go on and on, the Empire is crumbling, all the signs are right there in front of our faces. Without a complete reboot our society's current path is unsustainable. I'm heavily invested in cryptocurrencies, and I'm predicting by the time I'm ready to cash out, I won't need to.

 

So yea, bubbles.....

 

 

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Neo just paid for Christmas

 

About to stock up on Cardano, ETH is my favorite right now but as a programmer, I see the shortfalls of solidity and don't see them being able to improve it without breaking the existing contracts. Not too bullish on NEO long term since China has banned ICOs, have a good bit of EOS though.

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1. The US dollar is backed by absolutely nothing,

 

That's not really true though. A unit of currency for each nation is essentialy a sharre in that nation, which includes everything from fixed/capital goods (infrastructure, defence forces, emergency services, etc) to population, regulatory systems, education system, etc., The potential of that nation to grow its value is quantified by international exchange rates, etc.

 

One US Dollar is one share of the United States. It is backed by a whole nation and it can increase and decrease in value based on the economic viability of that nation. Simple and crude but that's what money is. It used to be backed by gold but apart from the industrial uses of gold it's value is based on a value that is aggregated from a large amount of subjective opinions. Intrinsically gold has no use to me at all. I'm not an industrialist and I don't wear it (I fail at hip hop...). So the value of gold to me is largely based on uncertain factors such as the will of others to possess, which is driven by the will of others to possess it.

 

I'd say a national economy is a much more measurable and tangible backing than what we see for gold.

 

 

Thanks for posting that vid on block chain, I'm starting to grasp it now.

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Agreed, there's much more infrastructure surrounding the USD. With that said, you can't trade in your dollar for any goods or services should the value of dollar tank. That was my point regarding one of the main arguments people have against cryptocurrencies. The only thing giving the USD an edge over the rest of the worlds currencies is the Saudis, which may or may not have reached peak oil production long ago and are in decline.

 

I've been into programming and computer science for a long time, but understanding the fundamentals around how cryptography is integrated is what converted me into a believer. I've always hated math and thought it was boring as fuck until now. It gets real deep once you start understand how advanced currencies like Monero, Ethereum, and IOTA work.

 

Modern computers were developed for cryptography originally, and have come full circle back to their origins. You'd never believe me if I told you how much computational power is spent just to mine bitcoin. Keep in mind that article I've linked is from 2013.

 

Mathematics is the language in which god was written the universe. -Galileo

 

Glad you liked the video, here's a good related video from the same guy:

 

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I recently bought a litecoin a bit late in the growth. I have 1.08 LTC that I paid $340 for total. My friend got in a few weeks earlier, bought 3 LTC at $100 each. He's looking at over 200% profit right now if he cashes out.

 

My advice to anyone is don't put money into this that you cannot afford to lose. There are no guarantees that you will ever get anything out of it including the money that you initially put into it. You could end up holding your dick at the end of the day.

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I just pulled a majority of my HODL out this afternoon. USD's now sitting on GDAX waiting for this dip to bottom out.

 

Predicting a healthy correction followed by alt coin gains.

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The dip stings much more than the upswing feels good. I could double my money in a week, but if it goes down 20% in a day I'm the 1st world problems meme.

 

Just bought back in and profited 1.7 ETH on this dip so at least I've got that going for me .jpg

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Do you have more info on the tax? That potentially makes it a lot more difficult to make money on crypto. I know, I can google, but I want to hear it from you.

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The problem with figuring out tax is the IRS isn't 100% clear on the rules. Depending on how you interpret the laws, you could owe just for buying in, then owe a capitol gains tax on you profits, then have to pay again when exchanging those profits into fiat. Sort of like getting arrested, and the cops deciding how to charge you, plenty of gray area for them to work with.

 

Here's the best online resource I've found https://bitcoin.tax/

 

I don't have the patience to refer back to every single small alt trade & gain/loss I've made, and figure it all out referring to ytd price to USD charts, so I'm just adjusting my gross income to include my fiat withdrawals out of Gemini, Gdax/Coinbase without deducting the bank deposits into these exchanges. Worse comes to worse, they say I owe more, but I should be able to wiggle out of any penalties by being upfront and at least trying to pay.

 

One thing I do know for sure from the recent IRS/Coinbase ruling, transactions over 20,000.00 have to be reported by the exchanges. The fact that they fought this in court, and didn't fold when IRS originally demanded everyone's records is pretty reassuring. As I understand it, the ruling was applied retroactively to accounts between 2013/2015. I'm not exactly sure if they're 1099'ing 2016-now so I'll wait and see if they send me anything. I don't hold on exchanges long enough for significant gains so it will be interesting to see.

 

If you're super paranoid about withdrawing profits, you can always anonymously hit up a crypto ATM or just exchange crypto for goods and services on Overstock, Expedia, ect. My own plan is to hodl most of what I've accumulated until there isn't a need to exchange into fiat any more. I've had serious problems with the IRS before and trust me, it's not fun. I didn't file one year and got surprise 1099'd, ended up owing quite a bit, but was able to get a little sympathy by being poor, and still making payments so got a lot of the penalty reduced. A nightmare to say the least.

 

Damn, looks like I got back in too soon the market is still dipping. Fall 2017 noobs panic selling.

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That's not really true though. A unit of currency for each nation is essentialy a sharre in that nation, which includes everything from fixed/capital goods (infrastructure, defence forces, emergency services, etc) to population, regulatory systems, education system, etc., The potential of that nation to grow its value is quantified by international exchange rates, etc.

 

One US Dollar is one share of the United States. It is backed by a whole nation and it can increase and decrease in value based on the economic viability of that nation. Simple and crude but that's what money is. It used to be backed by gold but apart from the industrial uses of gold it's value is based on a value that is aggregated from a large amount of subjective opinions. Intrinsically gold has no use to me at all. I'm not an industrialist and I don't wear it (I fail at hip hop...). So the value of gold to me is largely based on uncertain factors such as the will of others to possess, which is driven by the will of others to possess it.

 

I'd say a national economy is a much more measurable and tangible backing than what we see for gold.

 

 

Thanks for posting that vid on block chain, I'm starting to grasp it now.

 

Not really correct. The dollar isn't backed by anything. In fact, its a note of debt. Technically every dollar in existence represents that amount of debt, plus interest as dictated by the federal reserve (prime interest rate). The federal reserve (a misnomer as its is not a government agency), is held privately held and part of the central banking system. They can expand the market or contract the market as they see fit (which essentially means moving decimal points in a digital ledger so that magically we have more or less money in circulation). they are also a lender of last resort for the government, though they try to abstract this by offering money at below market rate so that mega banks like JP Morgan can in turn by government bonds at deep discounts since the fed essentially guarantees a profit by adjusting the rate accordingly and then actually handing them the money. Further they also buy bad debt (meaning companies and assets that are upside down) by again moving decimal points on a ledger to create new money. They then sell this off at convenient times and strap the american taxpayer with the difference, plus interest on the entire thing.

 

GDP really has very little to do with it beyond serving as a very loose indicator of where the market (monetary supply) should actually be. Considering the feds have dumped over $1 trillion into the economy since the crash in 2008, with no GDP increase anywhere near that level of growth, you can see how it almost doesn't even matter at all. They risk nothing, but gain everything so they adjust as they see fit, with almost no transparency or meaningful government oversight, hence the "audit the fed" bill that never seems to go anywhere.

 

Gold backed currency is intended to stabilize a currency. Because it is a finite resource when you peg a currency to it, it prevents funny business like moving decimal point son a ledger to increase the money supply. This is precisely why crypto adopted that method virtually. The framework for how it works is based upon computers in the network solving mathematical formulas that become exponentially more difficult over time. The formulas follow moore's law in that processing power doubles every 18 months exponentially. Since that law has held true for the last few decades, if it were to continue, the estimate is that Bitcoin will take something like 120 years to mine from first to last. As such, you have a transparency with the size of the market not found in typical fiat currencies like the US Dollar. Since all currency is simply a store of money and since it's impossible to hack the block chain that crypto is built on and since we can project what the monetary supply is and will be, it simply leaves consumer confidence as the hurdle to over come. With BTC about to surpass a $20k ceiling, I'd say that its very quickly gaining everyones confidence. Further to this, the underlying tech (block chain) being decentralized and unhackable means that anything requiring high security and a stable decentralized network will benefit. This is what they'll be building self driving cars, delivery trucks, freight liners and more from. It'll likely also be the foundation to other communication protocols for shit like remote surgeries performed by doctors on the internet and executed by robots on the other side of the planet. Really the possibilities for block chain are as profound as the internet itself.

 

So now that genie is out of the bottle and we see a unit of value that has no middle man, is divisible out to 21 decimal points what do you think will happen to all those little countries with a ton of wealth (natural resource) but no seat at the petro dollar table? Or what happens when its matures to the point that its not just nerds talking about it, but becomes as prolific as the internet and smart phones? We're witnessing a revolution unfold that I believe few people can even wrap their heads around quite yet.

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The problem with figuring out tax is the IRS isn't 100% clear on the rules. Depending on how you interpret the laws, you could owe just for buying in, then owe a capitol gains tax on you profits, then have to pay again when exchanging those profits into fiat. Sort of like getting arrested, and the cops deciding how to charge you, plenty of gray area for them to work with.

 

Here's the best online resource I've found https://bitcoin.tax/

 

I don't have the patience to refer back to every single small alt trade & gain/loss I've made, and figure it all out referring to ytd price to USD charts, so I'm just adjusting my gross income to include my fiat withdrawals out of Gemini, Gdax/Coinbase without deducting the bank deposits into these exchanges. Worse comes to worse, they say I owe more, but I should be able to wiggle out of any penalties by being upfront and at least trying to pay.

 

One thing I do know for sure from the recent IRS/Coinbase ruling, transactions over 20,000.00 have to be reported by the exchanges. The fact that they fought this in court, and didn't fold when IRS originally demanded everyone's records is pretty reassuring. As I understand it, the ruling was applied retroactively to accounts between 2013/2015. I'm not exactly sure if they're 1099'ing 2016-now so I'll wait and see if they send me anything. I don't hold on exchanges long enough for significant gains so it will be interesting to see.

 

If you're super paranoid about withdrawing profits, you can always anonymously hit up a crypto ATM or just exchange crypto for goods and services on Overstock, Expedia, ect. My own plan is to hodl most of what I've accumulated until there isn't a need to exchange into fiat any more. I've had serious problems with the IRS before and trust me, it's not fun. I didn't file one year and got surprise 1099'd, ended up owing quite a bit, but was able to get a little sympathy by being poor, and still making payments so got a lot of the penalty reduced. A nightmare to say the least.

 

Damn, looks like I got back in too soon the market is still dipping. Fall 2017 noobs panic selling.

 

True indeed. But considering how it all works, best they can do is hit the USA based exchanges and look for transactions where crypto is converted to dollars and then work back to how many dollars were spent to begin with (whioch will no doubt be on the individual to prove). I dounbt they'll even bother with audits... They'll just hit the exchanges and send people bills against the withdrawl's when it not immediately obvious on your return.

 

But considering you can send your crypto off a domestic exchange and hold it in a private wallet, then in turn use that wealth to buy precious metals using crypto and later cash that out... Well, I'm sure there's a lot of fuckin people out in DC that are very concerned about their take on your income.

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Keep in mind that though every transaction is stored in the blockchain in the form of a hash... And that hash is created dynamically from the signature that in turn was verified by a private key that literally nobody but the owner knows... Even the addresses for private wallets are rotated with every transaction. So if 10 people send crypto to my jaxx wallet, its in fact recorded to the blockchain as distinct hashes that describe the transaction with no easy way to describe the sender or recipient since its just long fuckin alphanumeric strings with very little context. Plus I can always print out the key and literally hand that to someone.

 

I can see them hacking communications and hard drives and watching spending patterns long before they'll ever be able to decipher the blockchain.

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@Mercer I was talking to Julio / @psm026 the other day and for fun we tried to look up what BTC would be worth today if he'd spent $1k on it while we were in NYC. It was on our radar at the time, but we were all too caught up in shit to pay attention. Anyhow, we couldnt find pricing for that date so we looked forward +3 years to 2013. That $1k would have been worth around $1.133 million.

 

Fucking nuts man.

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Copied from the other thread I made, now closed...

 

If anyone wants to start up with crypto, feel free to jump into the conversation or DM me. If you dont have an account to buy yet, here's a referal code where you get a free $10 ass soon as you add $100 (I also get a free $10). https://www.coinbase.com/join/5a2fec64cd1ae9019f6e3b7

 

Coinbase is a great way to get started and an easy way to convert from dollar to crypto and back again, but its not really a trading platform. But you do have to start somewhere and Coinbase is great for that.

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