NRA: Put an armed guard in every school, yeah guns!

[RIPS]

Switzerland on the other hand is a very very dangerous country due to the quite liberal gun laws

[Decyferon]

Mexico and Uk are countries with very strict gun laws and they are consequently very safe places to live.

 

you are either a complete fucking retard or you are trolling hard, considering you've never said a valid thing on this site other than youtube links I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling.

[Walid Jumblat]

Yeah, RIPS, if you're not trolling you are clearly not very bright. Some well informed pro-gun people can make strong arguments worth discussing. You, on the other hand are basically on the same level as McLovin. The vast majority of what you say and how you say it is narrow, unresearched, biased and infantile. I'm not saying this to insult you, I'm saying it out of frustration at the pages of tripe that this discussion has degraded to.

[McLovin]

I'm on the same level as Rips? Damn, I consider that a compliment.

 

So you think it is perfectly acceptable to let anyone have a weapon?

 

Fuck, Europe and the UK generally have much better standards of living than in the US, syour wages have been stagnant for decades, people can't just walk into a hospital nad be cared for. The gap between the rich and the poor is great er than anywhere else and you think that guns are the issue?

 

Why haven't you risen up to the tyranny of your country being shafted by business? Why haven't you risen up against the equality that is persausive in your country.

 

If you are going to argue guns are there to battle against tyranny why has no one done it? You seem to have had governments that crush the poor for the last 30 or 40 years, why not do something about it?

 

America fooling itself that it is free is the biggest joke on the planet.

 

Lets make this country even more free by disarming it's citizens.

 

Uk has a better standard of living?

Wages stagnant for decades?

People can't walk into a hospital and get care?

The income between rich and poor are greater then anywhere else?

 

Sources please.

 

You need to lay off the Michael Moore films. I suppose you think Cuba has better health care then us too. I can't believe there's a guy on the other side of the planet who thinks he knows what is best for American's better they do. Typical statist..

 

What is all this nonsense about inequality? Why don't we do something about it? All we need is more socialism!! I need the government to take care of me. Tax the rich! Take their hard earned money and give it to me because I am better then they are and I deserve it. That is what being an American is all about.

[Walid Jumblat]

Seriously...., just..., I mean........

 

 

 

5 Hurt in Accidental Shootings at Gun Shows in Ohio, Ind., NC

 

 

MEDINA, Ohio January 20, 2013 (AP)

 

Accidental shootings at gun shows in North Carolina, Indiana and Ohio left five people injured Saturday, the same day that thousands of gun advocates gathered peacefully at state capitals around the U.S. to rally against stricter firearm limits.

 

At the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh, a 12-gauge shotgun discharged as its owner unzipped its case for a law enforcement officer to check at a security entrance, injuring three people, state Agriculture Department spokesman Brian Long said.

 

Two bystanders were hit by shotgun pellets and taken to a hospital. A retired deputy sheriff suffered a slight hand injury.

 

The shotgun's owner, 36-year-old Gary Lynn Wilson, brought the weapon to the show to find a private buyer, Long said. Sheriff Donnie Harrison said that it was too early to know whether Wilson might be charged but that it appeared to be an accident.

 

The North Carolina show, which is held at the state fairgrounds, is a quarterly event that usually draws thousands of people. The two-day show shut down early Saturday but will reopen Sunday.

 

In Indianapolis, police said a 54-year-old man was injured when he inadvertently shot himself while leaving a gun show.

 

Emory L. Cozee was loading his .45-caliber semi-automatic when he shot himself in the hand as he was leaving the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show at the state fairgrounds, state police said. Loaded personal weapons aren't allowed inside the show.

 

Cozee, of Indianapolis, was hospitalized for treatment. Police say the shooting was accidental and no charges will be filed.

 

And in Ohio, a gun dealer in Medina was checking out a semi-automatic handgun he had bought Saturday when he accidentally pulled the trigger, injuring his friend, police said. The gun's magazine had been removed from the firearm, but one round remained in the chamber, police said.

 

Police Chief Pat Berarducci said it appears the bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck the friend in the arm and leg. The man was taken by helicopter to a hospital 30 miles north in Cleveland, Berarducci said. His condition wasn't immediately known.

 

The gun rallies held Saturday coincide with President Barack Obama's unveiling of a sweeping package of federal gun-control proposals in the wake of a Connecticut elementary school shooting that killed 20 first-graders and six educators last month.

[McLovin]

accidents happen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” – Mohandas Gandhi

[theprotester]

"I used to issue leaflets asking people to enlist as recruits. One of the arguments I had used was distasteful to the Commissioner: ‘Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.’ The Commissioner refereed to this and said that he appreciated my presence in the conference in spite of the differences between us. And I had to justify my standpoint as courteously as I could."

full quote

[Decyferon]

Mclovin I had a huge response typed up with links showing exactly why you are wrong. But I can't be fucked. You think I get information from Michael oore films??? Maybe if I was snotty nosed teenage prick I would take him seriously.

 

Just look up every quality of life/standard of looking index survey done over the last few years. The top of it is dominated by European cities (including some japanese cities it seems only SF regularly polls high for standard of living)

 

You don't have free healthcare and cannot just walk in to a hospital and been seen with no issue. I have no reason to prove that it is simple fact.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/news/economy/ceo-pay/index.htm

Just the first link about CEO pay to average worker pay - gap between rich and poor

 

I can't believe you think feedom is having an stupid AR15. Why dont you people get angry about the child poverty in your country, the way people who work hard their whole live get fucked by their insurer for healthcare!!

 

You think I am a statist, not at all I am just saying you are all fucking idiots for beliving in guns. The problems in your society run deep and guns are just one of the many issues why America is nowhere near being the greatest country it can be.

 

Can't believe I typed all that out for mclovin

[Walid Jumblat]

accidents happen

 

Something you heard from your parents from time to time, I assume.....

[morton]

My particular favorite is that we can not have any gun registry or control to protect us from the tyranny of the government and the solution is instead to put armed guards in every single school in the country.

 

Anybody watch the recent add by the NRA, accusing the president of a double standard because he has the secret service?

 

It's pretty awesome.

[Fist 666]

or that obamacare is socialism but now we have to really help the mentally ill and stop letting them slip through the cracks...

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I love the out right denial of socialist policies, that ARE socialist policies.

 

As far as the armed guards thing, I don't get why it's such a big deal. You wouldn't need an army. You already have school security. Where I went to school in NYC the NYPD were all over the place every day controlling the outside, when school was over and picking kids up who were cutting class while school was in session. There are also metal detectors and on random days they would search school bags.

 

Now I don't agree with all of that but that is what was done at the school I went too. We still had a shooting outside (gang related) after a talent show.

 

There is no real clear cut solution that would keep students 100% safe from hand to hand violence, someone bringing in some kind of blade, or a gun.

 

The argument about Obama having secret service is just to point out that people should have the same right that he does. Clearly every person in america can't afford security detail 24/7 so let them have there guns. You could either not get the point or take it out of context, it's what most people do.

[Fist 666]

The point they make is made out of context. Arguing for the right to own an ar15 is NOT arguing for self defense. You think the secret service guys are packing assault rifles under those suit coats?

 

I think the high cap mag ban is pretty fucking stupid across the board. reloading and mag changes are fucking easy, if someone wants to keep the kill count high they'll practice that. I find that element to be an outright waste of time/money/legislation.

 

and sure, obamacare is socialist, not arguing otherwise, but how is a national mental health program not going to be?

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

No, but there is also more than one of them at any given time.

 

The AR15 isn't even the problem, most of these shootings are done w/ handguns.

 

I haven't been paying that close attention to the Federal gun restrictions that they are trying to pass, but again here in NY they are going at all kinds of fire arms, since this is probably one of the best chances that they are going to get regarding people's emotions, and even with that being said a very small portion of people even signed those petitions to get those laws passed.

 

They are going to go through regardless though, they want us disarmed, and it isn't to stop mass shootings. Cue tin foil hat accusations.

[Fist 666]

The stuff I've read on NYs new laws I'd agree are outlandish and disconcerting.

 

As usual I think this is probably an agree to disagree situation between us, but I really don't think the intent is disarmament, not in our lifetime.

[UPS!]

Fuck you stupid pussies who are for the government taking our guns from us.

 

Go be a fucking pussy somewhere else, one fucking kid shoots up a school because his stupid ass fucking mom taught her fucking retarded austictic son how to shoot guns, has nothing to do with the rest of us.

 

PUNISH the stupid fucking people and stop making us all suffer for what other retards do.

 

Im glad he fucking killed his mom, too bad he didnt just fill her full of 100 bullets instead of other peoples kids....fucking retard.

 

Easy solution, take all the fucking retards and kill them at birth, take all the emo-goth, bullied kids and throw them in jail, and let me keep my fucking gun.

 

Jesus fucking Christ

[Fist 666]

wow.

i'm a pussy now? shit. my whole identity is down the drain. i'd better take some vitamin S and get that shit back....

 

that might be the single dumbest post you've ever made dude.

[Realism]

Uh. Wow.

 

Stricter gun control = suffering? That's a new one.

 

Mental illness is not retardation, either. Downs is retardation. Autism, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc are mental disorders, and autism is more of a social thing anyway...

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

The stuff I've read on NYs new laws I'd agree are outlandish and disconcerting.

 

As usual I think this is probably an agree to disagree situation between us, but I really don't think the intent is disarmament, not in our lifetime.

 

Bloomberg is a big problem. I don't even know how he got elected for hits 3rd term. Almost everyone I deal with hates the man.

 

So much for term limits. I've also heard rumors (probably bs) that Obama or his camp has started those rumblings as well.

 

My whole thing is this, you or anyone has a problem with something fine, don't take part. Don't try to take my rights away from me.

 

Again, always appreciate the conversation. :cool:

[Walid Jumblat]

YEah, the mag capacity debate leaves me scratching my head. It's like sanctions, look to be doing something without actually making the tough moves that need to be made, less political/economic risk.

 

In regards to Obama care bing an element of socialism, so what if it is? There seems to be this allergic type of aversion to socialist concepts, like as soon as anything such is introduced the PRes. will have a red star on his head and Lenin statues will start popping up everywhere. It's ok, the USSR is gone and we can stop the hysteria. Many countries have some socialist policies in place; Australia, UK, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, Germany, Denmark, etc. Sliding tax scales, public schools and health systems, welfare for the sick and needy and so on. These are countries with very strong economies, with long history of fighting totalitarianism and communism and that have strong economic relations and defence ties to other Western nations including the US. They have not turned in to red centers that eat the rich.

 

To even look at economic and social policy in terms of "that's related to socialism, that automatically means bad" is to not understand economics. Policy needs to be looked at through cost/benefit analysis, if it works, who gives a shit what political ideology it comes from, it works!! I'm not saying Obama care does or doesn't work, I'm just saying to base any kind of reasoned discussion on whether it's related to socialism immediately makes the discussion redundant.

 

Political ideology is akin to ignoring pros and cons of an issue and stubbornly refusing to budge from preconceived notions. This criticism relates to both the Left and Right.

 

 

 

And Cunt-Eastwood, hahaha, wow! You should probably get more worked up about it all, mate!

[Mr. Incognito]

Eastwood had that bottled up for pages.

 

 

NY is a haven for faggot legislators. I'm not against common sense gun control measures but everyone's ideas of common sense differ a lot. Mine don't line up with Cuomo. I don't think restricting gun mags from 10 to 7 rounds will save a life anywhere. Instead it pisses everyone off. So I guess I can keep my ten round mags but only load with 7 rounds. I can also carry as many magazines as I feel like.

 

I still haven't heard any argument as to why gun free zones, where practically every mass shooting has taken place, should not be eliminated. Obviously they don't work for any damn one except the law abiding.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Not the USA but on topic, kind of.

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/21/3192629_p2/in-mexico-self-defense-squads.html

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=96d_CzrfxsM#!

 

Cornell West talking about some of the things I was earlier, and a lot more.

[Walid Jumblat]

The laws people are talking about would have taken away this family's ability to defend themselves in a situation just like this.

 

 

Annoyed with his mother, teen allegedly shoots parents and siblings dead

 

Date

January 22, 2013 - 5:29PM

 

 

The US teenager accused of fatally shooting his parents and three younger siblings told authorities he was annoyed with his mother and had been having homicidal and suicidal thoughts, according to a probable cause statement.

 

Nehemiah Griego, 15, remained in custody on Monday on charges of murder and child abuse resulting in death.

 

Griego told the detective that his brother did not believe him that their mother was dead so he showed his mother's bloody face to his brother and then shot him, according to the statement.

 

He was arrested following the shootings Saturday at a home in a rural area south-west of Albuquerque, New Mexico, where he lived with his family.

 

A Bernalillo County sheriff's detective questioned the teen on Saturday night and the details of their conversation were spelled out in the statement.

 

The teen allegedly told the detective that he took a .22 calibre rifle from his parents' closet about midnight on Saturday and shot his mother in the head while his younger brother slept next to her.

 

Griego told the detective that his brother did not believe him that their mother was dead so he showed his mother's bloody face to his brother and then shot him, according to the statement.

Multiple deaths ... police search for evidence.

 

He's accused of then shooting his two young sisters in their room. He retrieved an AR-15 rifle from his parents' closet and waited in a downstairs bathroom for his father to come home. The statement said he shot his father multiple times after he passed the bathroom doorway.

 

The teen said he reloaded the guns so "he could drive to a populated area to murder more people", according to the statement.

 

His plan, the statement said, was to "shoot people at random and eventually be killed while exchanging gunfire with law enforcement".

 

Sheriff's spokesman Deputy Aaron Williamson said on Monday he couldn't immediately comment on the document.

 

Detectives have spent two days collecting evidence and trying to piece together what led to the violence.

 

"There's no other way to say it, except that we have a horrific crime scene down there that we are working on," Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston said on Sunday.

 

The detectives had finished their work at the home by Monday afternoon. The metal gate at the home's entrance was shut, a small bouquet of purple flowers was on the top of the gate and at each side there were religious signs, including one that read "Jesus is the reason for the season".

 

The sheriff's office identified the victims as Greg Griego, 51, his wife Sarah Griego, 40, and three of their children: a nine-year-old boy, Zephania Griego, and daughters Jael Griego, 5, and Angelina Griego, 2. All appeared to have gunshot wounds to the head.

 

Greg Griego was a pastor who had once served at Calvary, one of Albuquerque's largest Christian churches.

 

He was also well-known throughout the law enforcement community for his work as a voluntary chaplain.

 

Neighbour Terry Wootan described Griego as a man with a big heart. The two sometimes chatted at the mailbox and would wave to each other when passing by. Wootan said Griego told him about his time in California when he was involved in gangs and how he turned his life around and found God.

 

"What he wanted to do was help people, and he would never quit," Wootan said.

 

The pastor's death has shocked the community, including the Albuquerque Fire Department and the Metropolitan Detention Centre, where he volunteered his spiritual guidance.

 

A records check by the Children, Youth and Families Department indicated no trouble with the Griego family and that Nehemiah Griego had never been in trouble with the law.

 

"This youth had no history with the juvenile justice system," agency spokesman Bob Tafoya said on Monday.

 

Williamson confirmed there was no history of any emergency calls to the home in the recent past.

 

Neighbours said they saw the first police cars and ambulances arrive at the home on Saturday night. The road was blocked and word of the shootings began to make its way through the neighbourhood.

 

According to the probable cause statement, Nehemiah Griego first told a staff member at Calvary that his family was dead and that he placed the two rifles in the family van as protection before driving to the church.

 

He later changed his story, according to the detective's statement.

 

Asked if he had told anyone else about murdering his family, Griego allegedly told the detective that he had taken a picture of his dead mother and sent it to his girlfriend.

 

Sheriff Dan Houston plans to hold a news conference on Tuesday morning, and the teen could make his first court appearance in the next day or two.

 

AP

 

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/annoyed-with-his-mother-teen-allegedly-shoots-parents-and-siblings-dead-20130122-2d4xo.html#ixzz2Igl2JJL6

[theprotester]

His plan, the statement said, was to "shoot people at random and eventually be killed while exchanging gunfire with law enforcement".

 

 

Totally what a fifteen year old would say...

[Fist 666]

right? were the phrasing, "shoot as many niggaz as i could til i a blast out with the popo" i'd be more prone to believe they were his words, or the words of a handful of channel zero people

[Realism]

What that family needed, in reality, was more guns.

 

That way the threat--a BAD GUY with a gun--could have been neutralized by a GOOD GUY with a gun.

[morton]

^check and mate

[Decyferon]

[Mr. Incognito]

What that family needed, in reality, was more guns.

 

That way the threat--a BAD GUY with a gun--could have been neutralized by a GOOD GUY with a gun.

 

 

 

I guess it doesn't matter what they could have done since now they are all dead anyway, but i would argue that two parents with four kids probably could have done a little more to keep their guns less accessible to any of their kids instead of leaving them in the closet, not to mention loaded, or at least an equal access to ammunition.

 

you're kinda right though with your sarcasm, if a cop showed up during all of that, he would've shot the kid. as the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

 

On the contrary, I could post countless snippets from armed citizen columns, but i won't bore you with stories of people using guns responsibly for their intended use.

 

 

 

i grew up in a house with a bunch of handguns and a few rifles. the rifles were kept unloaded in my dad's closet with the ammunition locked up, along with handguns in the same safe. i never had any idea where the key was to that safe and still don't, even with his handguns now on my permit. in other words, i don't think it's too hard to keep things like guns secured from children.