NRA: Put an armed guard in every school, yeah guns!

[shai]

"What he wanted to do was help people, and he would never quit," Wootan said.

 

A good place to start would have been keeping his fucking guns locked up...

[sexcauldron]

In regards to Obama care bing an element of socialism, so what if it is? There seems to be this allergic type of aversion to socialist concepts, like as soon as anything such is introduced the PRes. will have a red star on his head and Lenin statues will start popping up everywhere. It's ok, the USSR is gone and we can stop the hysteria. Many countries have some socialist policies in place; Australia, UK, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, Germany, Denmark, etc. Sliding tax scales, public schools and health systems, welfare for the sick and needy and so on. These are countries with very strong economies, with long history of fighting totalitarianism and communism and that have strong economic relations and defence ties to other Western nations including the US. They have not turned in to red centers that eat the rich.

 

Yes, but the people who think like that (i.e. I smell socialism = bad) are idiots anyway, just because they have a loud voice doesn't mean they are actually articulating what the argument is about. The countries you list either border on or are completely social welfare states; conceptually, there's nothing wrong with that, but consider that the average wage earner (middle class) German citizen pays roughly 55% of his income in taxes (income + VAT). So yes, social welfare states can exist, bring benefits, maintain a respectable economic standing, etc... but they cost the citizens/taxpayer quite a lot. The pertinent point in reference to the US is simply that the American taxpayer cannot afford it at this time. Both sides will lie to you about taxation all day and night but what is sincerely needed is an earnest income tax increase on the middle class, but that's obviously not politically beneficial for either side to campaign for. Yet still, it is no secret that the country is in quite a bit of debt; however, despite what both sides keep perpetuating, the vast majority of that debt is owed domestically to the American people (China simply "owns" the most of our international debt, but ~11 trillion of our famed 16 trillion is domestic debt). So in a criminally simplified manner of speaking, a social welfare program such as Obamacare (which if you recall was constitutionally upheld as a tax of sorts) simply adds cost to an already strained taxpayer.

 

In reference to the actual topic of the thread, people often misinterpret the 2nd Amendment as a right to ownership of all types of guns. Whether you agree with that or not, unfortunately the Supreme Court has previously held that such is not the case (http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf; http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/us/29scotus.html?_r=0). So the idea of saying that American citizens have a "right" to assault weapons is not legally supported. Still, there is no real working definition of an assault weapon that can be readily applied to a federal ban, at least not in my opinion (there still seems to be too much wiggle room to make a ban effective on the federal level). So I think we'll start seeing state's push for bans on weapons that they'll craft definitions around (i.e. Maryland) but keep in mind that no one would be having this discussion if not for the Sandy Hook shooting which means to me that the initiative behind these proposed regulations is fickle at best so the more time that passes the less likely we'll see major regulation changes in that area.

 

As for putting armed guards in schools, if you're going to do that you better put them in grocery stores, movie theaters, churches, etc... Schools are by no means an exclusive target of craziness, if you know there's a guard at the school but know that there isn't one at the local church I'd say that makes your massacre decision pretty easy.

[UPS!]

wow.

i'm a pussy now? shit. my whole identity is down the drain. i'd better take some vitamin S and get that shit back....

 

that might be the single dumbest post you've ever made dude.

 

Shouldn't you be furthering your pathetic excuse of an existence by banging the only women who would even touch you, aka disgusting fat trailer sluts with bastard kids?

 

You really fail at life Fist, I was intent on slaying the fuck out of you but its not even worth the finger movements, you embarrass yourself on a daily basis to get the laughs and half affection of people a thousand miles away over a computer screen.

 

As far as the whole gun thing goes, I could give a fuck.

I’m not a gun nut by anyone’s means, I have what I need and that’s fine by me.

 

Targeting guns is basically just a scape goat for the real issue at hand, mental health, which no one wants to touch because it’s so much easier to blame guns.

 

I can already tell from reading this thread that the majority of those posting in here go with the flow of the group and just agree with whatever opinion seems to have a majority behind it.

 

There is no debating with you idiots, most of you don't even have an education and are just a bunch of ex-military loser goons, go figure.

 

Carry on with your witty, fucking hilarious dialogue :rolleyes:

[UPS!]

Just to show how fucking stupid the legislation is, why target M60's and belt fed machine guns(yes hyperbole) when handguns are used in a majority of the shootings?

 

People need to actually read the god damn legislation before they make their mind up one way or another. Instead of ''GUNS ROCK BRO da gubment ganna take us over without em,'' or ''Guns are the only reason this is happening, lets ban AR-15's and all the school shootings will stop!''

 

Its cool though, most of America is fucking lazy & retarded, too bad you can't write laws to control that.

[UPS!]

I guess it doesn't matter what they could have done since now they are all dead anyway, but i would argue that two parents with four kids probably could have done a little more to keep their guns less accessible to any of their kids instead of leaving them in the closet, not to mention loaded, or at least an equal access to ammunition.

 

you're kinda right though with your sarcasm, if a cop showed up during all of that, he would've shot the kid. as the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

 

On the contrary, I could post countless snippets from armed citizen columns, but i won't bore you with stories of people using guns responsibly for their intended use.

 

 

 

i grew up in a house with a bunch of handguns and a few rifles. the rifles were kept unloaded in my dad's closet with the ammunition locked up, along with handguns in the same safe. i never had any idea where the key was to that safe and still don't, even with his handguns now on my permit. in other words, i don't think it's too hard to keep things like guns secured from children.

 

 

Honest question Decy, when London was basically taken over and 1/2 of it burnt down two summers ago, you think maby that wouldnt of happened had there been more guns in citizens & police hands for that matter?

[sexcauldron]

Targeting guns is basically just a scape goat for the real issue at hand, mental health, which no one wants to touch because it’s so much easier to blame guns.

 

I can already tell from reading this thread that the majority of those posting in here go with the flow of the group and just agree with whatever opinion seems to have a majority behind it.

 

What? First off, there are no real "issues" at hand because all of this is the result of emotional knee-jerk reactions to a horrific crime. I for one fail to see the mental health issue in this country that people are now trying to paint. At what point did this country forget about the mentally ill or in any way not take measures to protect them and others from them? Sure it's good rhetoric but fact is I'd rather be mentally ill in the US than any other country on the planet and you should feel the same. The way I see it, mental health regulation applies to the Sandy Hook shooting in two ways: first, gun ownership regulation could be expanded to prohibit those w/ mentally ill persons in their household from owning a gun; second, mentally ill individuals could be mandated (oh wait, they already legally can be) to take their medicine. Outside of those, the only mental health regulation I foresee in the equation is locking mentally ill people away somewhere. Also really, easier to blame guns than mental health? Think outside the rhetorical nonsense of it all, it's pathetically easy to blame both; the only problem is that neither caused the crime and both issues are so mangled by special interest that the only reason either is mentioned is to create a platform for said interests regardless of which side of the debate you fall on.

[UPS!]

''the only problem is that neither caused the crime ''

 

Did you seriously just fucking say that?

 

What caused it then, since it wasn't guns and it wasn't a mentally unstable kid

what killed all those children?

 

Im not pushing any agenda either, im in the small margin of people with a brain that sees that both issues need to be changed, specifically the ability of the mentally ill to purchase guns seemingly easy.

 

We can lock up every kid who smokes or sells a little pot, but itd be unethical to put the fucking loons away?

 

Explain that one to me

[sexcauldron]

Yes, a gun did not cause the crime nor did a perceived mental health issue in this country. Sure a mentally ill kid massacred a bunch of kids by using a gun but it isn't the fault of the guns nor the treatment of the mentally ill in this country. Why do I say that? Because plenty of mentally ill people, many of whom are much sicker than the individual in question, don't go around killing people. So what? You want to lock away crazy people? Where do we draw the line, how crazy is too crazy and who gets to decide that? Moreover why do you think it's easy for crazy people to obtain guns under our current regulations? The gunman in this case used guns purchased by his mother (whose judgment we may question but who is/was not certified as mentally ill), so any regulation prohibiting the mentally ill from purchasing firearms(which already exists mind you) would have been ineffective. For more on that, I point you to my previous suggestion of prohibiting individuals who have a mentally ill person in their household from owning guns. However, that is a complex regulation proposal that melds the two issues: on one hand, you have to answer how mentally ill does one have to be to fall within the purview of the regulation; on the other hand you have to expand background checks for gun ownership in order to facilitate such a regulation (both in terms of an all out expansion (i.e. private v. commercial sales) and in terms of depth (i.e. more in depth investigation into the background of the purchaser).

 

For what it's worth, I don't think it would be unethical to "put the loons away" as you put it but it is a very complex idea.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I agree with everything you just said, minus putting all the "loons" away, this opens the door for a lot of possible things. I would imagine a big increase in "mentally ill" and a lot of people going in for treatment. Lots of money in treatment these days, insurance companies love that.

 

I'm sure the prison industrial complex would drool all over this. Let's make more contracts with the state to keep these "hospitals" at a certain capacity and have people that aren't even mentally ill going away. And if you happen to make "medicine" for any of these disorders, you could just sit back and count your $$$.

[Fist 666]

Cunt: So you call me a pussy and and a loser goon, then state most of the arguments that have already been made by myself and others like me on both sides of this argument in this very thread?

 

Please, "slay the fuck out of me with your finger movements (serious NH there)." you're really demonstrating that you "have an education" with your rants.

 

I'm amused, please bring more.

[Mr. Incognito]

 

In reference to the actual topic of the thread, people often misinterpret the 2nd Amendment as a right to ownership of all types of guns.

 

What? maybe im getting off topic but im a huge proponent of the second amendment. just like other amendments such as the 1st, there are rational guidelines. No, i don't think people should own machine guns or bazookas or whatever the fuck. there's similar guidelines for the first amendment like yelling bomb on a plane for example, or libel laws. conceal carry permits, background checks and references for those permits, background checks for gun purchases and mental health checks, to me, are pretty reasonable and rational guidelines for the second amendment. NY now requires background checks for buying ammo, which i don't agree with, along with rifle/shotgun registry. I have nothing to hide, but im wary of the government tracking my every move that way and knowing whats in my house.

 

As for putting armed guards in schools, if you're going to do that you better put them in grocery stores, movie theaters, churches, etc... Schools are by no means an exclusive target of craziness, if you know there's a guard at the school but know that there isn't one at the local church I'd say that makes your massacre decision pretty easy.

 

 

some of those places do have armed guards...not really sure about grocery stores, but i know some churches do, and some movie theaters in my area. that's where the argument comes in...you have all these other places with armed guards, so why not schools? I don't really agree with it completely, especially not before banishing the "gun free zone" crap that schools and some of these other places have. we already have security/hall monitors in all the schools i went to, so i don't see why if these people have conceal carry permits that they cannot carry while on the job. and in which case, go through some extra training.

 

i think people who are whole heartily against the idea are imagining some security soldier decked out with an m16 and body armor and fully equipped to kick ass in the halls of their kids' elementary school, when it just wouldn't be the case.

 

 

and im still waiting for an argument in favor of gun free zones from one of you anti gun nerdlingers....

[Decyferon]

Cunt the police here do have guns and it made no difference. If citizens had been armed it would have been much worse. People would have just used the chaos to clear vendettas.

 

The vast majority of the problems were looting in town centres. I don't see anyone wanting to defend big companies being looted.

 

I don't agree that the only issue in this subject is mental health. It is more than that. Everyone tries to simplify it to one issue when it is the availability of guns the crap mental healthcare you have the fact that the vast majority look at their lives as having no chance to be successful. In America you glorify guns to a ridiculous extent.

 

I think you could use this as a useful way to sort your country out. Let people keep their guns just raise taxes on ammo by 50% guns too. Clear your deficit. Maybe even fund some healthcare for everybody.

[Decyferon]

It is completely unethical to lock away the mentally ill. It is a disease. They need care and help. If someone is judged to be a danger to themselves or others then yes they may need to be kept in a secure facility to get the help they need while protecting them and the public.

 

If you wanna say lock up the mentally ill then why not llock up all black people? There is a lot of black gun crime so by your thinking we should just lock all them up too.

 

Ridiculous using the mentally ill as a scapegoat.

[Decyferon]

Also the reason all those riots happened in the UK was because the police shot someone. Think his name was mark Duggan. The rioting then spread as people jumped on a bandwagon and decided to go wild and loot shite.

[McLovin]

a great book i'm reading about this very subject here KILL THE WITCH!

[Fist 666]

I don't have a pro-gun free zone argument, just arguments against carriers that are poorly trained shooters (let alone stress situation shooters) popping off in a crowded place.

 

You guys want more guns everywhere? Then make a CCL/P/W (whatever your state calls it) a chore to get in that you have to prove you can shoot at varying ranges in a high stress scenario. Otherwise you're just adding more flying bullets to an already chaotic situation.

[morton]

I love the upside down world nature of gun control threads.

 

Here armed people do not riot or loot, the positive behavior effects of gun ownership are just too strong. Here guns save more lives than fire extinguishers, waiting periods kill more people than gun accidents, the solution to tyranny is a hundred thousand armed guards at every school. Another solution to this pesky tyranny problem is forced institutionalization of the mentally ill despite the fact that they murder at no higher rate than the rest of the population, the NRA will argue that gun control is a elitist argument in that the president has armed guards for his children's school ignoring the fact that there have been cops at schools in the ghetto for at least 25 years.

 

These threads are so upside down that people actually follow McLovin links.

[Mr. Incognito]

 

I think you could use this as a useful way to sort your country out. Let people keep their guns just raise taxes on ammo by 50% guns too. Clear your deficit. Maybe even fund some healthcare for everybody.

 

 

again let's punish the law abiding citizen who chooses to exercise rights by taxing them out the asshole. awesome idea. that will sure clear up this deficit alright.

 

 

Morton, are you ever gonna say something worth reading, points worth discussing or just keep posting dumb shit? you sound like an idiot and im honestly getting sick of reading your garbage in this thread.

[RIPS]

Cunt the police here do have guns and it made no difference. If citizens had been armed it would have been much worse. People would have just used the chaos to clear vendettas.

 

The vast majority of the problems were looting in town centres. I don't see anyone wanting to defend big companies being looted.

 

I don't agree that the only issue in this subject is mental health. It is more than that. Everyone tries to simplify it to one issue when it is the availability of guns the crap mental healthcare you have the fact that the vast majority look at their lives as having no chance to be successful. In America you glorify guns to a ridiculous extent.

 

I think you could use this as a useful way to sort your country out. Let people keep their guns just raise taxes on ammo by 50% guns too. Clear your deficit. Maybe even fund some healthcare for everybody.

 

lol uk police in action ...

[RIPS]

QUOTE:

 

Here it is. This is the video where I was asked to keep the Democrat proposals for the NY SAFE Act away from the public. This list was given to me by a colleague and it is not confidential.

 

This bill was an attack on the 2nd amendment and the Democrats clearly wanted to dismantle the work of the Founding Fathers. None of these amendments were included in the final bill thanks to us fighting back. I will not stand silent while these unpatriotic proposals are pathetically thrown at us a 11 o'clock at night:

 

1. Confiscation of "assault weapons"

2. Confiscation o ten round clips

3. Statewide database for ALL Guns

4. Continue to allow pistol permit holder's information to be replaced to the public

5. Label semiautomatic shotguns with more than 5 rounds or pistol grips as "assault weapons"

6. Limit the number of rounds in a magazine to 5 and confiscation and forfeiture of banned magazines

7. Limit possession to no more than two (2) magazines

8. Limit purchase of guns to one gun per person per month

9. Require re-licensing of all pistol permit owners

10. Require renewal of all pistol permits every five years

11. State issued pistol permits

12. Micro-stamping of all guns in New York State

13. Require licensing of all gun ammo dealers

14. Mandatory locking of guns at home

15. Fee for licensing, registering weapons

 

:UNQUOTE

 

[RIPS]

http://ssristories.com/index.php

[morton]

Mr. Ingognito,

 

Since you invited that I engage more fully in this discussion I will, your criticism that my post do not bear your attention is somewhat valid as I have been dismissive of this discussion. I do think that my last post spoke to a valid point which was that the assertions made in this argument are often patently ridiculous.

 

Posting 130,000 armed guards over our nations schools is a ridiculous proposition. You argue that we should arm the hall monitors after they undergo some "additional training", just how much additional training do you feel would be appropriate? And who will take the heat in a wrongful death lawsuit?

[Decyferon]

QUOTE:

 

Here it is. This is the video where I was asked to keep the Democrat proposals for the NY SAFE Act away from the public. This list was given to me by a colleague and it is not confidential.

 

This bill was an attack on the 2nd amendment and the Democrats clearly wanted to dismantle the work of the Founding Fathers. None of these amendments were included in the final bill thanks to us fighting back. I will not stand silent while these unpatriotic proposals are pathetically thrown at us a 11 o'clock at night:

 

1. Confiscation of "assault weapons"

2. Confiscation o ten round clips

3. Statewide database for ALL Guns

4. Continue to allow pistol permit holder's information to be replaced to the public

5. Label semiautomatic shotguns with more than 5 rounds or pistol grips as "assault weapons"

6. Limit the number of rounds in a magazine to 5 and confiscation and forfeiture of banned magazines

7. Limit possession to no more than two (2) magazines

8. Limit purchase of guns to one gun per person per month

9. Require re-licensing of all pistol permit owners

10. Require renewal of all pistol permits every five years

11. State issued pistol permits

12. Micro-stamping of all guns in New York State

13. Require licensing of all gun ammo dealers

14. Mandatory locking of guns at home

15. Fee for licensing, registering weapons

 

:UNQUOTE

 

 

3,13 and 14 seem like perfectly reasonable ideas

[morton]

If you wanna say lock up the mentally ill then why not llock up all black people?

 

It is a work in progress.

[Fist 666]

one implies the other.

[morton]

Here is a article not related to gun control per se but does speak to the emotions behind gun ownership in a way that makes sense to me.

 

December 24, 2012

The Dark Presence of Guns

Posted by Alec Wilkinson

 

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/the-dark-presence-of-guns.html#ixzz2IqK3olvy

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I think you could use this as a useful way to sort your country out. Let people keep their guns just raise taxes on ammo by 50% guns too. Clear your deficit. Maybe even fund some healthcare for everybody.

 

LOL!

 

Legalize drugs, the gun violence will drop, gang violence will drop, you could use this absurd amount of money you are raising to help pay for improvements in education, healthcare and the infrastructure of each state.

 

Oh and end the wars.

 

Healthcare is another issue, and taxing ammunition would not be able to fill that gap.

[Mr. Incognito]

Mr. Ingognito,

 

Posting 130,000 armed guards over our nations schools is a ridiculous proposition. You argue that we should arm the hall monitors after they undergo some "additional training", just how much additional training do you feel would be appropriate? And who will take the heat in a wrongful death lawsuit?

 

 

you're kinda like the Mclovin of your side of the argument, but i will entertain your questions.

 

 

you're right, posting that many new armed guards at schools is ridiculous, which is why i say get rid of gun free zones, arm (or give the option to arm) hall monitors which are already in most schools as far as i know, that way you're not hiring over a hundred thousand additional guards. while we're at it, we'll say the principals of each school will be armed too. all of these people go through whatever firearms training IS adequate for these positions. in the case of a wrongful death lawsuit? well, who usually ends up taking the heat?

 

 

Obviously my idea is a long shot. it will never happen. And it's not even the ideal layout for things in my opinion. What it is, is a less over the top version of what the NRA suggested that maybe, just maybe, sounds a LITTLE more rational and believable. it's what i wish the NRA suggested. then again, i think it was a CBS poll that showed 63% of people were in favor for the NRA's proposal.

 

Every school across the country will never have armed guards, but if they rid themselves of being gun free zones, i have a feeling mass shooters would find a different, "gun free" place to shoot up.

[Mr. Incognito]

a quick read article from my city that proves my wariness for all this shit...

 

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/632834/police-chief-says-thwarted-burglary-does-not-change-his-stance-on-gun-ban/

 

 

"My druthers is that in every situation we encounter as police officers, we're the only ones with guns. That would be the perfect scenario," said Sheppard. "From a personal safety, taking care of my people... if we're the only ones with guns, we win. And that's what I want."

[McLovin]