kristina Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by seeking the big deal is integrity and self respect. if you don't mind whoring yourself around, i don't mind calling you a whore. and since you don't mind being so gay, i guess i'll just call you gay :king: :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deceipt Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by seeking the problem i have with alot of people that try selling their work is that they completely fail to realize/accept/understand the fact that mediocre artwork from a no-name individual is worth just slightly less than a stolen glue stick from kinkos, and that their attempt to peddle it (especially on the internet) is basically retarded. if dude was to go down to his little hipster area of the city, set up a little table and try selling his stuff, or put it up in coffee shops or something, fine, have at it. do it locally where people can get a feel for you, maybe even talk to you about your work and what it means to you. but putting something on ebay, (esp. with such a completely ridiculous starting price) is implying that you already know theres a market for it, the only question is how much is it going to bring in. to quote our english friends 'bullocks!'. when you have to rely on the strength of other peoples names (that you have no connection to what so ever, save the occasional bitten style) to even get your stuff looked at, that's just sad. i'm not trying to be an asshole here, this is all just my opinion, and it's certainly nothing personal. i'd say the same thing to my best friend. you have a point and i can understand exactly wut ur saying. but here is one example i have. lets say you are some underground artist and you have a message but nobody fuckin cares wut you have to say because u arent sum famous celebrity motherfucker. but then if you actually rise up and start getting ur message to the public than people turn around and call you a sell out. no matter wut u do ur fucked. sumbodies social credibility shouldn't make their opinion more important than others in every case. if sumbody can state facts or make logical points in an argument than that is wut should matter. u get wut i mean? i could care less how high sumbody elses social status is. all i care about is whether they are doing sumthing that appeals to me or not. i see nothing wrong with people trying to sell their art on ebay. nothing wrong with it at all. as for kristina's response to yours: i believe it is immortal technique who said: "success and fame has nothing to do with luck; its about knowing a thousand people that are dumb as fuck" or sumthin like that. damn good quote if u ask me as for your last sentence. thats the part i agree with you on. if ur talking about wut i think ur talking about. for example i get annoyed when people put a bunch of shout-outs next to their pieces. when half the time they dont even really know the people they are shouting out to. they are just referencing them so it makes them look better. wuts really sad is writers who make up crew names for non-existant crews. they just use it as sum bullshit reference material. and i kno quite a few people that do this. ur not being an asshole at all. i respect you for expressing your opinion without trying to make other people look stupid for theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffie Crave Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by seeking art? that's a twist bite and a kool keith album cover over top of a generic 15 second spray painted background. if you're counting on art sales to support you, you're gonna be one broke, starving, self agrandizing motherfucker. im not trying to be a dick, but $50?! no one has ever heard of you. you're not a 'famous' street artist, you're a dude trying to get over on ebay. sorry, but if you're gonna put yourself up for sale, we have a right to discuss the product. no bite, here dont make me brake out the old blackbooks and show u how my lil dudes i paint build up to where they are today, now with that out the way... i rather see art work, that had alot of time put into it up for sale...rather than some dudes throw up for $3456565.00 ....only becuse hes SOOOOOoooo famous... i sell art work becuase,people want it and it sells...also i need money to keep up with my art,and i rather have it hung in someones home rather than siting in my room.....not to brag but i sell stuff for more than 50.00 easy, by selling it for 50.00 im just hooking up the buyers u can say with a deal, i much rather do a trade with another artist ...and thats what i mostly do, but if ur not a artist, i will sell it to u..or hook u up with something for free but simple nothing time wise, and like i said before the thing that pisses me off...is dookie 20 min canvas work and prints selling for so much...only cuzs of a name..its like buying a 40 doller plan with tee with a tiny lil nike check on it..well thats a whole diffrent story but u get the idea http://www.take7.0catch.com now this is the canvas thread, lets see some canvas work, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/monsta4131/greenfrm.jpg'> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/monsta4131/99b.gif'> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/monsta4131/hair-girl.gif'> these are already sold, if u would like do to trades hit me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 if you need to compare your stuff to a 'dookie 20 min canvas' in order to prove your worth, that's not saying much about your stuff. the fact that you can't understand why someone would want a limited edition print or simple work from an artist whom they admire, just kind of shows [to me atleast] your complete lack of understanding of art, and the fact that you clearly seem to be looking at it as a business rather than an a form of expression. prints sell because we can't all own an original dali. we can however own an incredibly well done reproduction. in most cases, a signed and numbered one. as for 10 second throw ups. you're not buying the work itself as much as you're buying a piece of the artists legacy. i would kill just to have a paint stained rag out of barnett newman's studio. no one else might give a shit about it (or him), but to me it's symbolic of the inspiration i get from his stuff. that's why ten second shit sells, because when you say that persons name it garners respect and conjures up images for people. by your logic, a rough sketch by michelangelo is worthless. i think you'll be hard pressed to find a single person who will agree with that. if you bought a big piece of metal with a JA throw up on it, you're buying every single throw up he's ever done, and all the history that comes with it. if you can't understand why someone might be more interested in that, than some no names generic character/overspray background, well, i guess we have wildly different ideas of what is inspiring. as for me claiming it was a twist bite...intentional or not, i think the similarities pretty much speak for themselves. but if indeed it was an evolution of yourown, why does it seem to only have one position and facial expression? how difficult is it to throw some over spray on an old skateboard deck and do the same character three times, facing different directions? what did that take you? half an hour? an hour? there is no emotion there, no vision, no individuality. there is a kitchy character and a contemporary background. if you'd spend $100 bucks on something like that, hey, more power to you, but i'd rather buy a subway sign with a skuf tag. i'm not really trying to attack you, i'd never heard of you before yesterday and know nothing about you other than what i see here and on your site. if you really need to sell some art on ebay to afford acrylics and spray paint that can be racked from an artstore easier than they can be bought, i mean, you go right ahead. but i still maintain the right to think it's cheap and souless. you can reply and tell me i know nothing, thats fine. it's all just my opinion. deceipt, no one calls twist a sellout. no one calls reas a sellout. no one calls futura a sellout. no one calls sheppard fairy a sell out. these are dudes that came up with something, stuck by it, and rode it into stardom. they didnt change their style to match the newest fads, they created them. if someone really has something that interesting to say, people will listen. it might not be a cultural revolution, but the respect of the informed is more important than the fame of the ignorant. and the word is 'what', not 'wut'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilt TA Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by Coffie Crave and like i said before the thing that pisses me off...is dookie 20 min canvas work and prints selling for so much...only cuzs of a name..its like buying a 40 doller plan with tee with a tiny lil nike check on it..well thats a whole diffrent story but u get the idea these are already sold, if u would like do to trades hit me up if people are willing to pay for something they appreciate..and help support someone..its a great thing..so don't hate because you sell your shit for minimal or trade it away..ive seen "dookie 20 minute canvas" look phenominal..its all in the movement and personality..a single line can move someone..but..you can keep trying to cash in on your dookie graffiti-style canvas all you want..i guess you gotta eat too. **edit** wouldn't you pay for a cd of your favorite "underground" musician?i know i would.full circle buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOE Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 it's for nothin' but.... I have clients who commission me for graphic promotional stuff, oil portraits and non-graf related art such as interior theme murals for resturants and bars. Work is good and I have no other job. But when I sell a graff canvas, the buyer has a certain satisfaction from seeing MOE tags, bombs and mural work throughout this city. I would'nt even try to sell or even expect anyone to buy my graf canvases if I did'nt do the real thing. And I doubt anyone would buy them otherwise. In fact....thats the only reason why they sell really. Nothing wrong with selling or not selling your art. I have several peices, not for sale. The only problem I have, I guess is when someone tries to sell graf style canvases and dont actually do graf. Kind of wak and non-authentic. Not pointing any fingers but people who do that know who they are. Do what you love, be productive and let's face it, every artist wants to make a living doing what they love to do. Amen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deceipt Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by seeking deceipt, no one calls twist a sellout. no one calls reas a sellout. no one calls futura a sellout. no one calls sheppard fairy a sell out. these are dudes that came up with something, stuck by it, and rode it into stardom. they didnt change their style to match the newest fads, they created them. if someone really has something that interesting to say, people will listen. it might not be a cultural revolution, but the respect of the informed is more important than the fame of the ignorant. and the word is 'what', not 'wut'. actually i've heard quite a few people call shepard fairey a sellout. because of him selling posters for so much or wutever. but i told those people to SHUT THE FUCK UP. i have complete respect for sumbody who "came up with something, stuck by it, and rode it into stardom" and i feel if they are already an established artist or wutever than they are in less need of support than sumbody who is up-and-coming. i guess that means my interpretation of art is different from yours? to me "art has its best moments when it forgets its very name" - jean dubuffet. basically stating that art isn't about fame or money. and the purpose of expressive art is to expand peoples perceptions on things. not to sell for high prices because of sum reputation you have. "gaining fame has nothing to do with luck its about knowing a thousand people that are dumb as fuck" alot of the time just because you've made a name for yourself doesn't necessarily mean you are a more talented artist than sumbody who hasn't yet. you can completely suck but if you get the right kind of publicity than people will admire you, regardless of how much you suck. look wut hte music industry has become, less focused on making good music and more focused on publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 ive heard of people criticising shep for his fame, but in just about every instance it's jealousy talking. if you're doing the same thing you've done since day one, you can't sell out. yes, he does sell his prints for a decent amount of money, but he's also 'crossed over' into the mainstream art world. or rather the mainstream art world crossed over to him i should say. either way, after stuggling with the topic for a while, and taking different stances at different times, i decided that i couldnt hate on dude. his original goal was to create a product that didn't exist, and make the ad campain into the product. he did that. the more he sells, the more it proves his point. i can't be mad at that at all. i wasnt at all saying that the point of art was to become famous off of it, i was just giving you a couple examples of become that became famous on their terms, by doing the same things they always did and not selling out the communities they came from in the process. i think everyone i mentioned is doing the things they are for reasons much larger than money. the fact that they were all doing it before money was ever an issue just proves that. they're artists first and foremost, marketable second. (ar argument could be made against shep in that respect, but since the majority of his 'art' was marketing, it doesnt apply). i have nothing against selling art. if i could take something i already do, or have been doing for years, and make a ton of money off of it, i would do it, just as everyone would do. money is a very powerful thing, and at the end of the day, every single one of us wishes we had more of it, and had more fun getting it. if someone ehas no self respect issues with making generic bullshit just so they have something to show fo themselves, i mean, it's only your rep that you're hurting. obviously my feelings on this issue are pretty deep seeded, and not at all wholly directed towards coffie, or anyone else in specific. i just have very strong opinions about art, expression and respect. and when it comes to graff, the idea of 'respect' doubles in importance (right or wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deceipt Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 this is a better response. i agree with you. as long as your doing the same thing u were to begin with than how can that make you a sell-out? thats obviously just jealousy on part of the person making that accusation. basically it seems you are saying the same thing i am saying about expressive art's main purpose being to expand peoples perceptions rather than to sell? as for you saying that the idea of "respect" is double importance. sadly i dont see very much of that between writers in the graff game. and it really annoys me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE CORONER Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 do u sing for converge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 deceipt, no, i think we're totally on the same page. i'm just a lot more wordy about it. ha. as for respect in graff. i kind of look at it in two totally different, sometimes contrasting ways, and judge it based on which category they fall into. i have equal respect for bombing and piecing/trains, and know that you cant judge them on the same standards. you can be ugly as shit, but if you're on every wall, doorway, mailbox, street sign in the city, ill respect you. however if you paint 1000 ugly trains, your shit is just ugly. whats the difference? difference is that you could have done something better on the trains, but you were lazy/sucked. because of this dual outlook, i can respect someone for disrespecting everyone and everything in their path....in the street. if you've got the balls to hack a dudes spots, steal his car and fire bomb his house...well....i cant help but respect the dedication it takes to be that fucking retarded. when it comes to trains and piecing though, disrespecting eachother is just retarded and pointless. it makes you look like a sucker 90% of the time. i dont know if im making sense, or if anyone even cares. the car place called, they cant figure out what the rattle is from. i hate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE CORONER Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 right on as always bro.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIZENO Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 This has been a good conversation.... Its funny to me how a lot of 12oz'ers talk mad shit on what happens in PaperChase, yet discussions like this are great and I don’t see them happen in other forums. Art is about perception ... selling art is all perceived value. If the person purchasing the work feels the work matches the monetary value they are about to exchange for it, then it’s worth it. Period!! As for the high art world, we would all love to be part of it. Yet that is a bit unrealistic, as well the attitudes displayed are not always up to par with everyone’s ideal view of the world. I personally love to go to see great artwork on the walls of museum, gallery, fuck even coffee shops. I just wouldn’t want to deal with the elitist attitude that goes along with most of the social circles in the high art world. My opinion is most of that elitist attitude is based on the people being insecure with themselves … ie. Having their shit on the wall of a gallery, feeling deep down inside not up to the level they think they should be. Maybe I’m projecting my insecurities a touch, but fuck it I’m not trying to sell my shit to any elitist, I make my shit for me and if others dig it I’m happy to share. I was a bit dumb about looking for e-fame when I started here, but I got things a bit more figured out and am fairly over looking for fame in graffiti world at all. I produce art … if I can sell it off the wall of a gallery, or on ebay I am still getting to share my voice with a broader base of people. If my ambition was to be a famous fine artist the ebay shit may hurt my credibility to a few people, but if that can effect an opinion that strongly I could give a fuck less about someone so superficial as to let a bit of online shit sway their opinion of the work I have on the wall. I hope I got the point across with out too much muddling !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIZENO Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Originally posted by seeking i can respect someone for disrespecting everyone and everything in their path....in the street. if you've got the balls to hack a dudes spots, steal his car and fire bomb his house...well....i cant help but respect the dedication it takes to be that fucking retarded. . this is one of the best things i have seen here in a long time. knowing the artist/bomber conflit of the graffiti culture. COMEDY & TRUTH in one shot !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOE Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 makes sense to me dude. Trains are definitely for peicing. The beautiful thing is the time you have to do something grand next to a tag or bomb. Which in my opinion better not be ugly either. Although, 'ups' can and often times do, outweigh style. The two together is the pinacle. And it ain't hard to tell who's got it and who don't. I dont paint many trains but man, i want to. Just cant afford all the paint it takes for multi-color peicing these days. As an adult, my money goes elsewhere.(rent, bills, child support and what not.) As far as stealing cars, firebombing houses and dissing freight peices.....well....I can't help but to find that retarded.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some pittsburgh flavor Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 i've been saying it all along.... crappy, spraypainted background + crappy, unoriginal characters + stupid, un-poignant words = crappy, stupid paintings *edit- when did somethign so stupid become a "style of art"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Feets Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 *edit- when did somethign so stupid become a "style of art"? You mean graffiti? ;) a la clever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 it's funny...in some ways i think graff is the most pointless shit in the world and in others, i think it's the perfect blend of random ingredients that you'll never find in any other activity. not to fag it out or anything, but it takes talent, skill, dedication, physical ability, balls, patience, understanding, restraint, common sense, street smarts, ingenuity...it's a whole lot of different things all condensed into a pointed form that appeals to a cross section of people that would otherwise very likely just be waisting their time on even less fruitful endeavers (if thats even possible). whatever. i think i internalize things too much and care too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overtime Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/hiddenshovel/Canvas/Picture312.jpg'> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/hiddenshovel/Canvas/Picture311.jpg'> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/hiddenshovel/Canvas/Picture310.jpg'> just some news, not that anyone would, but if you want em, hit me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kublai Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Re: High Quality Photo Originally posted by IGLUE SCL Just had an old board that i'd done a blended background on... thought it needed something else. http://www.boomspeed.com/anzboard/ladycanvas.JPG'> thats dope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0RB1T0N3R Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 yo enter ill do a collab with you on them canvas's. hit me up on aim ill show you some sketches and stuff. later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why write? Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 i like those canvases enter, your style improved.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosolpros Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 yo enter your pieces need alot more designs in em, there way to empty. try creating a theme when your doing your canvases so it will be more filled in and have a funk to it. Just my two cents....:king: :king: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmenTFC Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 yo enter the second one is dope! If you put more designs in the second one (pieces, tags, ect.) I will def. buy it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarzAbove Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Yea ENTER makes boring ass canvases :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Feets Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Damn... is it really this easy to make money? [see the above comments] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printscreen Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 ENTER wot you using 2 do them canvas's wot pens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repletecord Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by ilovedrunk thanks but its my girl friends computer i just painted it http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/tomfoolery/art%20ish/rose02.jpg'> What kind of markers or paint did you use for this home-boy?. shits fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTONE Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 hi. wanted some advice. should i put some shine on the letters with thin white to draw it out of the background more? i kind of like the only blue scheme though. i never know when to stop http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00457424f00000007.jpg'> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.