seeking

it's funny...in some ways i think graff is the most pointless shit in the world and in others, i think it's the perfect blend of random ingredients that you'll never find in any other activity. not to fag it out or anything, but it takes talent, skill, dedication, physical ability, balls, patience, understanding, restraint, common sense, street smarts, ingenuity...it's a whole lot of different things all condensed into a pointed form that appeals to a cross section of people that would otherwise very likely just be waisting their time on even less fruitful endeavers (if thats even possible). whatever. i think i internalize things too much and care too much.

deceipt, no, i think we're totally on the same page. i'm just a lot more wordy about it. ha. as for respect in graff. i kind of look at it in two totally different, sometimes contrasting ways, and judge it based on which category they fall into. i have equal respect for bombing and piecing/trains, and know that you cant judge them on the same standards. you can be ugly as shit, but if you're on every wall, doorway, mailbox, street sign in the city, ill respect you. however if you paint 1000 ugly trains, your shit is just ugly. whats the difference? difference is that you could have done something better on the trains, but you were lazy/sucked. because of this dual outlook, i can respect someone for disrespecting everyone and everything in their path....in the street. if you've got the balls to hack a dudes spots, steal his car and fire bomb his house...well....i cant help but respect the dedication it takes to be that fucking retarded. when it comes to trains and piecing though, disrespecting eachother is just retarded and pointless. it makes you look like a sucker 90% of the time. i dont know if im making sense, or if anyone even cares. the car place called, they cant figure out what the rattle is from. i hate that.

true. i overthink the fuck out of stuff, and i expect entirely too much of myself. i never consider the fact that barnett newman (who i've mentoned twice today, breaking my previous all time record of....once, ha) who painted incredibly minimal stuff, would work on the background of a painting for months. some times on and off for years. if i have to spend more than a few minutes on something, i start to feel like i'm failing and i begin to lose my vision. see, i never learned the 'process' of doing anything. i've never tried to draw something (figures, still lifes etc) by sketching the basic chapes, getting the right perportions, then going in and adding all the details. i draw the final product the first time. which, admittidly is a piss poor way of achieving things, and explains a whole lot about me and my personality in one example, but is honest none the less. it also explains why ive been in such a rut with graff lately i think. i make complete letters, then wonder why i can't think of shit to add to them. duhhhhhhhh. sorry. this was entirely directed towards heavylox, but anyone that feels like calling me a fag is welcome to.

ive heard of people criticising shep for his fame, but in just about every instance it's jealousy talking. if you're doing the same thing you've done since day one, you can't sell out. yes, he does sell his prints for a decent amount of money, but he's also 'crossed over' into the mainstream art world. or rather the mainstream art world crossed over to him i should say. either way, after stuggling with the topic for a while, and taking different stances at different times, i decided that i couldnt hate on dude. his original goal was to create a product that didn't exist, and make the ad campain into the product. he did that. the more he sells, the more it proves his point. i can't be mad at that at all. i wasnt at all saying that the point of art was to become famous off of it, i was just giving you a couple examples of become that became famous on their terms, by doing the same things they always did and not selling out the communities they came from in the process. i think everyone i mentioned is doing the things they are for reasons much larger than money. the fact that they were all doing it before money was ever an issue just proves that. they're artists first and foremost, marketable second. (ar argument could be made against shep in that respect, but since the majority of his 'art' was marketing, it doesnt apply). i have nothing against selling art. if i could take something i already do, or have been doing for years, and make a ton of money off of it, i would do it, just as everyone would do. money is a very powerful thing, and at the end of the day, every single one of us wishes we had more of it, and had more fun getting it. if someone ehas no self respect issues with making generic bullshit just so they have something to show fo themselves, i mean, it's only your rep that you're hurting. obviously my feelings on this issue are pretty deep seeded, and not at all wholly directed towards coffie, or anyone else in specific. i just have very strong opinions about art, expression and respect. and when it comes to graff, the idea of 'respect' doubles in importance (right or wrong).

"I've had several conversations with graphic artists and artists who work in clean lines and such. And all, including myself, find artists who are free and "sloppy" to be incredible artists. Inspirational if you will. I found it to be really interesting that artists who work in such graphic, clean terms would be so inspired by very non-graphic works." - joker if i could loosen up and relax, i'm convinced i could be 100x's more productive. i've always envied minimalist stuff for the restraint and vision that it shows. i know 'restraight' and 'loose' probably sound oppositional, but i mean 'restraint' as in, not over doing things. not needing to paint the whole picture, in order to paint the whole picture. the less strokes involved, the more impressed i am (generally speaking). there are of course plenty of exceptions, but i think the people i care about understanding me, will. i cant say i care for cy twombly much, or really even know that much about him, but i can say i respect him for presenting scribbles as his art and standing behind it unashamed. if i could express everything i feel with a single line, i'd never need a second.

i'm not a knightbat, but i can close down your whole club any time i want, so that gives me the right to post if i feel like it. ;) quit, will the names be in english, or in one of the various japanese languages? will our names translate into japanese well? that plays a huge roll in what sounds good. shrimp flavored candy is huge in japan, not so huge in cadillac michigan. (in no particular order or grouping): afterburnerz, twin turboz, redlinerz, turbo tunerz (stolen from milton, but i added the 'z', so it's totally different), she loves you (man), fast ass motherfuckerz, boost blasterz, nitros blasterz, serk looks like a muppet, crank shaftz, madd speed, skylinerz, burnt rubber, wrench monkeyz, maxx boost, drag racers, street dreamz, penz nuttz. drivers should be 'maxx torque & maxx speed' (they can be twins), 'lead foot', 'crank case', 'cam shaft', 'rod pusher' (my old porno name....from when i worked construction - don't ask), johnny thunder (or johnny hennessey in homage to the homie). i hope theres a japanese equivelant to the instant hip-hopness of trading s's for z's, otherwise i'm sunk. seeks/make fun of my ideas and get closed.

if you need to compare your stuff to a 'dookie 20 min canvas' in order to prove your worth, that's not saying much about your stuff. the fact that you can't understand why someone would want a limited edition print or simple work from an artist whom they admire, just kind of shows [to me atleast] your complete lack of understanding of art, and the fact that you clearly seem to be looking at it as a business rather than an a form of expression. prints sell because we can't all own an original dali. we can however own an incredibly well done reproduction. in most cases, a signed and numbered one. as for 10 second throw ups. you're not buying the work itself as much as you're buying a piece of the artists legacy. i would kill just to have a paint stained rag out of barnett newman's studio. no one else might give a shit about it (or him), but to me it's symbolic of the inspiration i get from his stuff. that's why ten second shit sells, because when you say that persons name it garners respect and conjures up images for people. by your logic, a rough sketch by michelangelo is worthless. i think you'll be hard pressed to find a single person who will agree with that. if you bought a big piece of metal with a JA throw up on it, you're buying every single throw up he's ever done, and all the history that comes with it. if you can't understand why someone might be more interested in that, than some no names generic character/overspray background, well, i guess we have wildly different ideas of what is inspiring. as for me claiming it was a twist bite...intentional or not, i think the similarities pretty much speak for themselves. but if indeed it was an evolution of yourown, why does it seem to only have one position and facial expression? how difficult is it to throw some over spray on an old skateboard deck and do the same character three times, facing different directions? what did that take you? half an hour? an hour? there is no emotion there, no vision, no individuality. there is a kitchy character and a contemporary background. if you'd spend $100 bucks on something like that, hey, more power to you, but i'd rather buy a subway sign with a skuf tag. i'm not really trying to attack you, i'd never heard of you before yesterday and know nothing about you other than what i see here and on your site. if you really need to sell some art on ebay to afford acrylics and spray paint that can be racked from an artstore easier than they can be bought, i mean, you go right ahead. but i still maintain the right to think it's cheap and souless. you can reply and tell me i know nothing, thats fine. it's all just my opinion. deceipt, no one calls twist a sellout. no one calls reas a sellout. no one calls futura a sellout. no one calls sheppard fairy a sell out. these are dudes that came up with something, stuck by it, and rode it into stardom. they didnt change their style to match the newest fads, they created them. if someone really has something that interesting to say, people will listen. it might not be a cultural revolution, but the respect of the informed is more important than the fame of the ignorant. and the word is 'what', not 'wut'.

fair enough.

those cars are also $100 to ship, which is a huge turn off to any graff fan that might otherwise be interested. $150 is still a steal for some of them, but the idea of paying twice as much for shipping, as you are for the item, is just sort of difficult to get over. the only cats who are bringing in real money seem to be dudes that are either super famous (cartoon) or famous 'artists' in a more traditional sense, that probably have a name and an agent and a reputation (atleast it seemed that way from what little i saw).

motherfucker, how did you come here and not holler at me? that's some sell out shit dude. i thought we were crew. GO INTANET GANGSTAZ 4 LIFE!

haha. i've been waiting for you to get on aim so we could talk about that. ha. i laughed the other day when i was in there and saw you had 3 fresh panels. i'm standing there all smelling the paint, trying to figure how long they'd been there. we should talk. since we seem to find all the same spots, we might as roll to one together sometime. get at me over email, or on aim. (hit coup for my email if you lost it).

the big deal is integrity and self respect. if you don't mind whoring yourself around, i don't mind calling you a whore.

the problem i have with alot of people that try selling their work is that they completely fail to realize/accept/understand the fact that mediocre artwork from a no-name individual is worth just slightly less than a stolen glue stick from kinkos, and that their attempt to peddle it (especially on the internet) is basically retarded. if dude was to go down to his little hipster area of the city, set up a little table and try selling his stuff, or put it up in coffee shops or something, fine, have at it. do it locally where people can get a feel for you, maybe even talk to you about your work and what it means to you. but putting something on ebay, (esp. with such a completely ridiculous starting price) is implying that you already know theres a market for it, the only question is how much is it going to bring in. to quote our english friends 'bullocks!'. when you have to rely on the strength of other peoples names (that you have no connection to what so ever, save the occasional bitten style) to even get your stuff looked at, that's just sad. i'm not trying to be an asshole here, this is all just my opinion, and it's certainly nothing personal. i'd say the same thing to my best friend.

art? that's a twist bite and a kool keith album cover over top of a generic 15 second spray painted background. if you're counting on art sales to support you, you're gonna be one broke, starving, self agrandizing motherfucker. im not trying to be a dick, but $50?! no one has ever heard of you. you're not a 'famous' street artist, you're a dude trying to get over on ebay. sorry, but if you're gonna put yourself up for sale, we have a right to discuss the product.

you answered that a bit too matter of factly to not know what we're talking about. i call B.S.

ap@c, thats dope. i like the clouds alot. im a big fan of clouds. infact, when i'm not furthering my graffiti career on the internet i like to think about how i'd paint some (if infact i painted.) ;) please tell me tarek isn't really vandelust.

how the fuck did you delete your own post?

dude obviously wasn't coming here to start beef, so theres no need to get all agro on him.

hulk hogan = http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/tickermaster/images/napoleondynamite.jpg'>

back when kaws was a writer, not an generic toy designer. (caught in detroit)

dear isaac, stop talking.

thats too bad.

i just dont understand why we need a movie about detroit graffiti. isn't extreme rollerblading still popular? what about wake boarding? i know they sell alot of them at dunhams. there has to be some other scene that would be more lucrative to exploit.

remember the first time you saw a jlaw tag? and you said 'what in the sam fucking hell does that say?' then you realized what it said, and you thought 'tell me dude isnt actually writing jlaw?' and theeeen you realized that indeed both the mutated goiter of a hand style, and the poorly chosen name were infact both completely serious? well....imagine that, but a little bigger, and a little sloppies. he doesnt reall do throw ups, just big tags. i mean, to be honest, he'd probably be dope in 1972, so maybe he's on some throw back shit we just dont understand. huh. i hadent thought of that. i'd like it better if he wrote 'jude law'

yeah, jlaw has the dumpsters out there sewn up. ive got a bunch of random tags in the bathrooms there, and some knife carvings in the dorr i think. ha.