seeking

there is a movie about detroit graffiti that does not mention justo, dibs, ogre, dubl, esau, mhc, tgv or eb. but it's a movie about detroit graffiti. do the math.

fyi: that's not how you spell ernie.

2for, i cant speak for every 'old' cat, but i know that personally i'm not 'threatened' by anyone doing anything. i'm a 'writer' in the traditional sense. i care more about graff as an artform (including the art of destruction) and as a discipline than i do about personal fame. i care about the experiences i've been able to have around the country and around the world. i care about the people i've met and the things they've taught me. i care about the shit ive seen and done. i care about going from jocking writers in magazines, to sleeping on their couches and having their girlfriends cook me breakfast. nothing that eggs or money or anyone else does will ever change that or be able to take it from me, so i have absolutely nothing to be jealous or threatened by. for every wall that aks side busts, i have a friend in a city i can travel to and paint for a month. that's not 'bragging' it's the simple truth and anyone tht knows me, knows that. the things i try to tell kids here are lessons i've learned over ten years of hanging out with some of the dopest writers in the country. if peoples insecurities need them to think im on some ego shit, thats fine, they're the ones ultimately missing out, not me. they can continue being all souped up on themselves, doesn't change my life. i've got no false ideas about who i am or what i am. there will always be kids here that have better styles than me, or have more spots here than i ever did, but so what? i've got much higher priorities than missing work because i was out till 5am painting. those days are mostly over for me, but i still manage to paint as much as anyone in this city, and have done so for years. i've also constantly pushed myself to evolve different styles and succede or fail, never stay stagnant. alot of the time i wound up falling flat on my face, but atleast i took the chance and anyone that says i didnt have an influence on this city either doesn't know their history, or is lying. if people want to tear this apart and say i'm bragging, or trying to make myself sound cool, go right ahead, but i really dont care. i havent done a single thing that anyone in this city couldnt do. and having done all of it, graff is now so much larger to me than just detroit. i get caught up in the politics here, but its only because i honestly care about seeing kids learn and progress and get something out of writing. as i said in my eggs/money/aks post; if you're going to put in the effort, why do it half way? why not go all out? dont bite styles and dont bite spots. drive around and find new spots. spend 20 hours a week sketching. it sucks to go through, but it feels incredible when you've done it. painting a spot knowing that kids are going to flip over it is 1000x's fresher than painting one that's been done 30 times. but all kids see is photos on the internet now a days, they dont see what goes into it. they're trying to build a car with no instructions, just a final product to compare their parts to. yes it can be done, but it's a long, slow, painful process that would be made infinitely easier if they'd accept that other people just might have a clue as to what they're talking about, and either ask questions or listen. if they dont want to listen to me, thats fine, i dont really have the time anyway, but listen to someone other than your friends who know as little as you do. *other than where specified this post was talking about the whole of graff and any 'you' was a collective metaphorical you. thats all, now is the time on sprockets when we sleep.

2for50, since that was obviously directed to me and red... if you agree that painting the same tired spots is wack, and you agree that biting styles is wack, then you agree with everything red and i said. anyone that puts in the effort to hit new spots and come up with their own style gets respect, period. you don't have to do 100 spots, and you don't have to be some style master, you just have to show that you have an interest in doing graff 'the right way' and care about what it means to be a 'writer'. his point, and my point, was that historically speaking, many people have failed to understand that. they think that side busting with borrowed styles is worthy of respect, and it's just not. it's also not that we cant accept new cats coming out and painting, that's complete bullshit. i'll spend hours talking to ayem about graff on aim. i paint with far. both are just starting out and both have a respect for graff and an urge to find their own place in it. it's got nothing to do with being 'new', or with jealousy, it's got to do with 'tough love', calling a spade a spade, and trying to be constructive and help kids learn. if no one wants to listen, fine, thats on them, but i stuck up for jlaw for christ sakes, i'm not just trying to be a dick

no one was talking about people coming from out of town. red and i were talking about people who pop up, paint the same bullshit spots for two summers, expect respect, then completely dissapear. where they come from is irrelivent, what they do while they're here is all that matters. as for being specific, yes, it was.

i think what our friend 'red' was saying, is that there is more to being a writer than a month of painting the same tired spots and jocking peoples styles, thats all. when you've spent years watching the 'summer cycle' over and over, seeing kids come out for a couple months then dissapear, you learn to not bother paying much attention to people till they've been around for a couple years. if you're still around in 5 years, you'll do the same thing. its the same thing in every city.

that sounded incredibly insincere, but for the sake of our mutual friend, i'll pretend that it was as heartfelt as a mothers love for her newborn child. ;) and that being the case, perhaps you could tailor your future posts to reflect those sentiments, since statements such as "If I wasn't from these here parts and I was reading this thread I would think Detroit was a city full of assholes and pussies and jerks with David Lee Roth sized ego's. But that is what i think anyway." are pretty hard to take as anything but an insult. know what i mean jelly bean?

justin, how come you took down the pictures of the big, tough talking 'boss nigger'? is it because he's actually a little white guy who needs to stand on a bucket in order to paint? just wondering. manowar, chalk it up to a guilty conscience if you'd like, but this is the second time i feel you've made insulting comments about me. in the future, if you want to talk about peoples 'egos' and call them 'pussies', you should really name names, instead of trying to be ambiguous about it, that way there will be no confusion. detroit red, good to see you aboard.

boulder, i wondered what the hell happened to you. chicago huh? you should still have my email, hit me up. i think i'm gonna be out there end of sept. for a homie's wedding. if you're still there, we'll kick it for sure.

i got a joke. Q.how many different screen names does it take to be a writer? A.detroit.

rip, game on. i should be free sunday (possibly later saturday) if you're down. you got the number. as for this 'beef' stuff, ayem's not a bad kid (or a dick rider) just young and excitable, trying to find his place. he cut ties with the retard, so that should be done. it's not my business to get involved, but in the interest of trying to avoid senseless drama, unless outside forces feel the need to make an issue bigger than it is, this should be a closed case. now lets focus our attention back on 'judelaw' being my new favorite writer, crews that side bust and paint the same tired ass spots over and over and over and over and how much riku sucks. cause i think we can all agree that that girl is a retard x's infinity.

a little while after lunch.

record time in roseville.

record time in either roseville, or ferndale. roseville is bigger. depends what you're looking for.

fosik lives in NY, that's why it's there.

manowar, should i be taking little comments like that as insults? just wanna make sure we're on the same page. i need to start using 'sussing'. i always forget about that word.

stuff like that is completely subjective, and it's 'worth' is determined by the viewer. since it's usually pretty devoid of technical skill, you can't even stay stuff like 'well, i dont like it, but atleast it's painted well'. either you 'get it' or you don't. personally, i love minimal stuff. it's generally my favorite 'art' (atleast as far as vancas work), but those particular examples do absolutely nothing for me. infact, i'd even go so far as to say that i find them generic and boring, but that's just my opinion, and obviously other people feel differently. my problem with it is that when you have something that simple, there has to be something very subtle that makes it work (atleast for me). some sort of interplay with the lines and colors, or (more often) a tension derived from asymetical balance. i don't really see those qualities in any of those. i would possible like the last one if the small circle wasnt there, if the colors were a little darker, and if the line between the two colors had some sort of 'motion' to it. that motion could even just be a tiny, hair thin line of fadeing, or a tiny amount of one color seeping into the other. anything to show some sort of inter action between them. that's not always a rule, sometimes i like things crisp and razor straight, but in this instance, thats how i feel about it. anyway, yeah, you could re-create those in 5 minutes, but they would be just as boring (to me) as these are. the thing i love about minimal stuff, is generally the things it doesnt say, vs. the things it does. most art attempts to tell a specific story. generally speaking, i could give a shit what that story is. minimal stuff allows you to get a certain feeling, then make up your own story to go with it. finally, it's a hell of a lot harder to make someone feel something with 2 lines and 2 colors, than it is with an unlimited amount of both. but that's just my take on it.

naw, i wasnt talking about your pieces at all. i didnt even notice you posted that till just now. i'm not gonna 'yell' at anyone, you all can do whatever you'd like, i'm just passing along the knowledge that's been passed down to me from testablished writers, and the people they all learned from. if you want to ignore it because it's coming from me, or you think it's stupid and archaic, then feel free, but don't be surprised when the cats that have been painting for years give you no respect just for how you conduct yourselves.

she can't answer you, she's been condemned to the land of lost toys. http://store3.yimg.com/I/ftcollect_1799_341302190'>

dude, no offense, but i have no clue who you are, so unless you are one of the specific people i mentioned, i probably wasn't talking about you. and i wasnt talking about spot jocking in abandoned buildings. that shits a free for all, whatever. i'm talking about street spots. and you can say you wouldnt care now, but i gurantee if you take the time to go out and find new spots that haven't been done, you'll be pissed when you get side busted. every 'established' writer in the city that i can think of all frown on that, so maybe that should tell you something. in a city where space is limited, it's not an issue, but in detroit there is no reason on gods green earth for that shit to be happening. there are too many spots to keep painting the same ones over and over, and dick riding the spots that other people get. and if you need a 'practical' reason to be annoyed by it, 4 pieces on a wall are a hell of a lot more likely to get buffed than just one.

i could repaint a joker piece, that doesn't mean i'm as good as joker. art like that needs to just be accepted if it can't be understood. some of my favorite canvases ever are almost entirely one solid color, to most people that wouldnt be art, but it's what you read into it that makes it 'work'.

there, problem solved. now instead of wasting another thread trying to get some dumb ass know it all 'model/artist/poet/bitch/student/ice cream maker' to understand the meaning of 'constructive criticism', we can spend our time talking to and about people that care what others have to say, and post here because they want to learn/improve. seeks/game on

since you guys love drama so much... i swear, this city has lost it's mind. i can't decide which is worse, cat's completely ripping off TGV's whole steeze (money and eggs) or cats spot jocking so hard, that if they aren't painting a spot that's been done 20 times, they'repainting one nearly right on top of someone (aks). are you guys fucking retards? going over tead, spot jocking bis? do you guys honestly think that bis wont wipe out every single spot you guys have in one night? do you think it's kosher to almost paint right on top of someone to get a spot when there are 3 buildings right next to it that all had empty wall space? this isn't NY, you could paint a virgin spot every night for 3 years here, there is no need to jock peoples spots, and even worse, it just makes you look like a total sucker. you get negative ups for moves like that. double negative when it's someone like bis. it's cool that people are putting in the effort to go out, but it's not cool that they don't have an original bone in their bodies. i see money and eggs every where i walk, and nearly every time, it looks like it could have been done by iowa and esau. if you're going to take the time (and risk) to paint, why not atleast make a half assed attempt to come up with your own god damn style? theres one spot with a FALL piece that says 'born to run', money paints RIGHT next to it, and writes 'born hard'?!?! huh? is that a joke or something? it must be. for all the bagging on jlaw, atleast the couple spots ive seen that dude has, haven't really been done, and no matter how ugly they are, atleast he's doing his own thing instead of taking the easy way out and just copying a proven formula. or maybe i'm the only one that cares about ethics and respect?

this is still just as funny as the day i did it. haha.

it's funny, the 'jude law' tag is horrible in a completely different way. it honestly took me 5 times of looking at it to even realize what the hell it said. back to the drawing board dog.