Elon Musk attempts hostile takeover of twitter

[Mercer]

He's competing against an established cartel that has successfully squeezed out any new competitors since the early 20th century. The industry has been so cartelized no one has been able to break the near monopoly GMC, Ford, and Chrysler has had here.

 

The government subsidies all the other car companies in so many different ways, and went so far to literally bail them out of bankruptcy/insolvency in 2008. Expecting him not to use the same advantages his competitors use, while at the same time fighting against the crony capitalist cartel side is not realistic.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like government interference myself. The government shouldn't be subsidizing ANY massive corporations, but it's not like Elon lobbied for these subsidies, they were already there.

 

This characterization has the same vibes as someone in the grocery store line that's mad someone in front of them is using food stamps, while tripping over themselves to suck a cops dick in the next breath. If you don't like paying for food stamps, either fight the system, or cheat on your taxes, problem solved. Hating the food stamp recipient is literally hating the player, and not the game. Either way, the market overall is better off Tesla did make it into a major competitor, and now there are 4 major companies forced to compete with one another even harder.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mercer

[Elena Delle Donne]

see and i agree that you can look at him and his career as an indictment of the form of capitalism we have in the united states — that his companies are built on lies and cranking out defective vehicles that kill their drivers and that is actually good business under this system because it is rewarding him and his shareholders. 

 

but you stumbled into making my earlier argument for me. why was he the only one who really succeeded? (there are other EV startups, but they're not really taking off.)

 

the only reason he succeeded against car companies is because of money from the government. specifically the EV credits. because the car companies are in the business of selling cars, not selling production credits.

 

again you're right that the car companies could've done this. but tesla did and it is the only reason they survived. musk borrowed billions from friends to float the company because they couldn't make cars and when they finally did you could park a better car in the panel gaps. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Elena Delle Donne

[Elena Delle Donne]

also a huge L for anyone riding for probably the most annoying public figure in at least 10 years. le epic meme triggered much? 2009-ass personality. very cringe. 

[LUGR]

4 hours ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

 

right but without government subsidies and selling EV credits tesla never would have worked. even with all that capital it came close to failing several times. they made more selling regulatory credits than cars until 2021. he would've torched all the money he made as a fake founder of paypal. 

 

it's not a car company — it's a securities/regulatory credits company. that's how they actually make money. it's what they actually want to buy and sell. 

 

Super low testosterone comment.

[Elena Delle Donne]

bullshit bro. i'm happily married with an amazing  wife. 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

defective vehicles that kill their drivers

 

I'm not sure where you got this from? I mean all cars kill their drivers but from my research Teslas are above average in safety.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mercer

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

why was he the only one who really succeeded?

 

Anyone can make a prototype, or a few examples, but no one else could establish a reliable enough supply chain needed to mass produce EV's. 

[LUGR]

22 hours ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

bullshit bro. i'm happily married with an amazing  wife. 

Does she mind if you help me out a bit?

[ndv]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:03 PM, Mercer said:

 

Anyone can make a prototype, or a few examples, but no one else could establish a reliable enough supply chain needed to mass produce EV's. 

 

I agree with you, although I would like to add to this and say, no one really wanted to, to begin with. It is kinda like the analogy, "if it's not broke, don't fix it".  Meaning, combustion engines have been the norm for so long nobody wanted to change it.  

 

On another note tho with that being said, I do belive O&G has/had some kind of hand in keeping the automobile industry pumping out combustion engines.  

 

Now fast forward to today,  all of the oil majors are quietly investing in renewables and electrics right now.  Their future is gonna be different in the next couple decades I am sure there are going to be mergers and bankruptcies in the near future.  Houston may look a little different economically, but we will see what's happens. 

[KILZ FILLZ]

I’m just tryna run a Westfalia on French fry oil man

[ndv]

@Mercer do you guys have to pay a few hundred dollars for electric vehicle registration in CO?  

 

TX has passed down a fee hundred dollar registration cost for electric owners to offset the cost since they do not pay a gas tax.

 

 

On a other note.  I'm gonna hook up a gas powered generator to charge my vehicle when it runs out while on the road.  Ungovernable.

[ndv]

@mr.yuck be laughing but seriously though...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/state-passes-law-require-electric-101500307.html

 

So basically, what the republican party in Texas has done, is to force a tax on someone who chose the freedom to want to be off the grid so to speak.  It's our free right not to use gasoline so imposing a socialist tactic is so Texan these days.  

 

Seriously. 

 

It's basically to offset lost revenue from gas tax and annual emissions test.  But, re,-read my comment above though. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by ndv

[mr.yuck]

I don't wanna get into a "roads" debate, but I think this tax makes sense. You wanna be ungovernable? Get outta town tags.

[ndv]

7 minutes ago, mr.yuck said:

I don't wanna get into a "roads" debate, but I think this tax makes sense. You wanna be ungovernable? Get outta town tags.

 

It does makes sense, yes.  But on the other hand oil and gas is huge, so what is Texas gonna do when more more electric vehicles in other states are growing.  Texas can't over reach.   I mean, yes each state will probably follow, but that's not the point, the point is when the nation has more EVs on the road than combustion and gas consumption goes down, Texas is gonna have a huge revenue problem in the future.  Don't get me wrong, I am sure most of the Texas energy companies will adapt to charging stations.   Shell is doing that now, but that's a whole new type of skill sets.  Is Texas investing in these new skill sets?  I am sure these issues have been addressed but keep in mind, Texas boomers have always had the mentality o&g is here to stay and they have always laughed at any mention of alternative and renewable resources.  

 

I really don't think an entire nation will be completely off gas until a few hundred years.  But the reality I see is its happening now in our life times and theirs.  I just think the o&g dominance mentality for the past 100yrs here in Texas is gravely mistaken. 

[Mercer]

13 hours ago, ndv said:

 

I agree with you, although I would like to add to this and say, no one really wanted to, to begin with. It is kinda like the analogy, "if it's not broke, don't fix it".  Meaning, combustion engines have been the norm for so long nobody wanted to change it.  

 

On another note tho with that being said, I do belive O&G has/had some kind of hand in keeping the automobile industry pumping out combustion engines.  

 

Now fast forward to today,  all of the oil majors are quietly investing in renewables and electrics right now.  Their future is gonna be different in the next couple decades I am sure there are going to be mergers and bankruptcies in the near future.  Houston may look a little different economically, but we will see what's happens. 

 

 

Although it's fun for me playing devils advocate in this thread, I also feel like I need to keep it 100%. Electric cars are a massive scam when it comes to the environment. Not for the people who buy them if they enjoy torque and power, but they're a scam for anyone who thinks they're "zero emissions", or more efficient. Most of the customers seem to think so.

 

A catapillar 797, and a large excavator need to move on average a half million tons of raw materiel just to collect enough raw materiel/ore for a single Tesla battery. That's 12 hours of non stop work for a digger, and a truck like this one below that burns through roughly 65 gallons an hour. That's 780 gallons of fuel just in dump truck fuel alone for one battery.

 

 

A 390 excavator will require roughly 3 times that to dig, and load that much ore into the dump truck, so that's a total of 3,120 gallons of fuel that's needed to make one single battery. To put that into perspective, a 4wd Ford F150 burns 21 gallons per mile, so that's like driving 65,000 miles in an F150 before the car even rolls off the assembly line.

 

Then let's consider how people charge. Me personally, I'm using the electric grid in Colorado, so that's 60% fossil fuels like natural gas, petroleum, and even coal. It's harder to run the numbers on that due to massive fluctuations, but by the time I burn through 80k-120k miles on my Model Y and need to replace the battery, I've burned through more fossil fuel than most normal cars would for the same amount of miles, including large SUV's and pickup trucks. To top that off, I'm literally rolling coal.

 

Just because the car itself isn't spewing out exhaust, doesn't mean it's zero emissions. Far from it actually. I don't have to breath the shit myself, but whoever is downwind of the power plant, and lithium mines hundreds of miles away will do that for me. That said, these cars are environmental scams, both for the idiots who buy them thinking they're "helping" the environment, and the taxpayers that subsidize well off people like myself for purchasing these luxuries. If you really care about the environment, just move to a city, and ride a bike or transit.

 

To me the oil & gas hating thing is useless because there's zero chance of us not eventually burning literally every accessible drop buried under the earth that's accessible, but that's a whole subject unto itself.

[Mercer]

9 hours ago, ndv said:

@Mercer do you guys have to pay a few hundred dollars for electric vehicle registration in CO?  

 

TX has passed down a fee hundred dollar registration cost for electric owners to offset the cost since they do not pay a gas tax.

 

 

On a other note.  I'm gonna hook up a gas powered generator to charge my vehicle when it runs out while on the road.  Ungovernable.

 

Colorado punishes people for owning expensive cars through registration fees, and there's no tax break for EV's so my registration is $$$$$ the first year and decreases with the estimated value of the vehicle. Owned it for a 3rd year this year and I payed $700 for registration this year, previous year was just over a G and first year was like $1400

[ndv]

10 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

Colorado punishes people for owning expensive cars through registration fees, and there's no tax break for EV's so my registration is $$$$$ the first year and decreases with the estimated value of the vehicle. Owned it for a 3rd year this year and I payed $700 for registration this year, previous year was just over a G and first year was like $1400

 

That's nuts!  

 

So let me ask you this?  How Much to you think you spend per year charging the vehicle? 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, ndv said:

 

That's nuts!  

 

So let me ask you this?  How Much to you think you spend per year charging the vehicle? 

 

 

Very little, I charge overnight from almost empty to full, maybe an extra $50 a month with the extra KWH fees. I’ve never paid over $20 charging but only charged in CO, NM, NV, UT, and AZ. I’ve heard CA superchargers are almost as expensive as filling up on gas.

[KILZ FILLZ]

Always appreciate your detailed responses @Mercer

[Elena Delle Donne]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:59 PM, Mercer said:

 

I'm not sure where you got this from? I mean all cars kill their drivers but from my research Teslas are above average in safety.

 

in just crash test data, teslas are fine. the two kinds of incidents to look at (as detailed on tesladeaths.com) are fires and autopilot deaths. 

 

lots of accounts from tesla owners (and lawsuits) that their electric doors have locked them in during battery fires. dead people have been found locked inside burning teslas too. when combined with how hard EV fires are to put out — they can take ten times more water and some have reignited six days later — it's bad news if your battery catches unless you can punch your own window out. seems bad but elon is a genius so it's probably good. 

 

the autopilot deaths are worse. that's clearly a product that wasn't ready for the public yet and is marketed as self driving when it isn't. there are a ton of autopilot deaths. no other carmaker would deploy this... or not recall it. but tesla knows their buyers and fans are sheep so they're keeping it. 

[Elena Delle Donne]

14 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

Although it's fun for me playing devils advocate in this thread, I also feel like I need to keep it 100%. Electric cars are a massive scam when it comes to the environment. Not for the people who buy them if they enjoy torque and power, but they're a scam for anyone who thinks they're "zero emissions", or more efficient. Most of the customers seem to think so.

 

this is exactly right and we'd be doing way more for the environment turning subsidies for EVs into rewilding suburbs or building public transit and/or mass transit. unfortunately this is america 

[ndv]

3 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

Always appreciate your detailed responses @Mercer

 

I agree.

[Mercer]

@Elena Delle DonneTo me it doesn't add up. Sure, you won't die from a battery fire in an ICE vehicle. That said, it's more likely for an ICE vehicle to have fuel fire, than an EV to have an electrical fire. Gasoline is also very problematic for firefighters to put out. It's like saying a seatbelt, or airbag might injure or kill you, when the odds of dying decrease greatly when they're in place.

 

The thing with the vehicle occupants being at risk in a Tesla is real, but considering how rare that is, and how simply reading the users manual, or watching a youtube video, or carrying a glass break can mitigate that 100%, all the other safety perks of driving a Tesla outweigh this darwinism.

 

 

What most Tesla owners are unaware of is you can easily open your door by grabbing the manual release shown above, which is a hidden part of the window button assembly.

 

The fact people die from not knowing is more of a testament of how unhandy, effeminate, and white collar most of Tesla owners are. As a blue blooded blue collar I like to know how everything works, and as a boss at work responsible for safety I tend to take it very seriously (except when I'm driving like a lunatic).  I've annoyed the shit out of my wife by forcing her to open the doors in the front and back manually just to make sure she knows how to bail.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Mercer

[ndv]

19 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

Although it's fun for me playing devils advocate in this thread, I also feel like I need to keep it 100%. Electric cars are a massive scam when it comes to the environment. Not for the people who buy them if they enjoy torque and power, but they're a scam for anyone who thinks they're "zero emissions", or more efficient. Most of the customers seem to think so.

 

A catapillar 797, and a large excavator need to move on average a half million tons of raw materiel just to collect enough raw materiel/ore for a single Tesla battery. That's 12 hours of non stop work for a digger, and a truck like this one below that burns through roughly 65 gallons an hour. That's 780 gallons of fuel just in dump truck fuel alone for one battery.

 

 

A 390 excavator will require roughly 3 times that to dig, and load that much ore into the dump truck, so that's a total of 3,120 gallons of fuel that's needed to make one single battery. To put that into perspective, a 4wd Ford F150 burns 21 gallons per mile, so that's like driving 65,000 miles in an F150 before the car even rolls off the assembly line.

 

Then let's consider how people charge. Me personally, I'm using the electric grid in Colorado, so that's 60% fossil fuels like natural gas, petroleum, and even coal. It's harder to run the numbers on that due to massive fluctuations, but by the time I burn through 80k-120k miles on my Model Y and need to replace the battery, I've burned through more fossil fuel than most normal cars would for the same amount of miles, including large SUV's and pickup trucks. To top that off, I'm literally rolling coal.

 

Just because the car itself isn't spewing out exhaust, doesn't mean it's zero emissions. Far from it actually. I don't have to breath the shit myself, but whoever is downwind of the power plant, and lithium mines hundreds of miles away will do that for me. That said, these cars are environmental scams, both for the idiots who buy them thinking they're "helping" the environment, and the taxpayers that subsidize well off people like myself for purchasing these luxuries. If you really care about the environment, just move to a city, and ride a bike or transit.

 

To me the oil & gas hating thing is useless because there's zero chance of us not eventually burning literally every accessible drop buried under the earth that's accessible, but that's a whole subject unto itself.

 

 

I am not sure how to exactly say this but this post is a perfectly written and should be textbook approved and used in any debate, argument, or convo involving any liberal or pretty much anyone who thinks ev is the way.  

 

I am trying to not get political but fox ews would cream themselves if they read this becuase...

 

 

[ndv]

5 hours ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

 

in just crash test data, teslas are fine. the two kinds of incidents to look at (as detailed on tesladeaths.com) are fires and autopilot deaths. 

 

lots of accounts from tesla owners (and lawsuits) that their electric doors have locked them in during battery fires. dead people have been found locked inside burning teslas too. when combined with how hard EV fires are to put out — they can take ten times more water and some have reignited six days later — it's bad news if your battery catches unless you can punch your own window out. seems bad but elon is a genius so it's probably good. 

 

the autopilot deaths are worse. that's clearly a product that wasn't ready for the public yet and is marketed as self driving when it isn't. there are a ton of autopilot deaths. no other carmaker would deploy this... or not recall it. but tesla knows their buyers and fans are sheep so they're keeping it. 

 

 

[Elena Delle Donne]

absolutely perfect, no notes

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Elena Delle Donne

[ndv]

1 hour ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

absolutely perfect, no notes

 

You should print out Mercer's comment and place it on the windshield. 

[LUGR]

3 hours ago, Elena Delle Donne said:

absolutely perfect, no notes

 

 

This dude at a place I used to work had “No Oil” vanity plates on his Tesla Plaid.

[Mercer]

I know the guy who owns that one, here's a photo. We're electron homies.

 

 

[Elena Delle Donne]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

the manual release shown above, which is a hidden part of the window button assembly.

 

you're telling me these cars have an MSRP of $50-80,000+ and the manual release door handle is hidden? and the autopilot is okay on the highway but also might drive you into the wall at speed and deactivate seconds before impact so they can blame you? 

 

humiliating bozo shit. not to mention actively malicious product design. tesla owners are hogs for punishment. they love to overpay for shitty cars that will kill them and elon musk will keep taking their money. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Elena Delle Donne