McLovin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Sort of off topic..I was reading this and that about gun control.. found this article about Nazi Germany and the confiscation of weapons before the tyrannical take over. for anyone interested it's a good read.. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html I don't think this debate will ever go anywhere sense it has been going on for hundreds of years and both ideologies are uncompromising. There are no gray areas. You either support gun control or you don't. But because someone supports or doesn't support something is not the same as favoring 20 dead children killed by crazy people here in the U.S or favor 200 dead children killed by drones in Pakistan. I really like the point brought up by Alex Jones about how in every school shooting the person was on some kind of anti-depressant pills. @fist you are wrong about me posting nwo bullshit. I don't believe in any of that illuminati garbage. I'm not sure where you're getting this from.. I made a thread quite sometime ago about it because it's literally all over the internet and so many people are into that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 i thought it was you that posted a conspiracy vid on it, my bad. gun control and disarmament are not the same. it is not black/white, there is a SHIT TON OF FUCKING GRAY. i'm not going to dilute this argument by comparing it to drone strikes. i will give credit to medications being a real concern. but crazies can't kill 20 w/o guns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 yet another straw man. this current outrage isn't born of violent crime, it is not about gun murders. it is about MASS MURDERS. how many mass killings took place the UK in 2012, 2011, 2010... one in 3 years with 12 dead. the previous was in 1996 which was what the UK ban was born of. (there was one in 2012 with 3 dead, US doesn't count mass killings until 4) how many in the US in those 3 years, and since 96 and how many killed? bringing up fucking el salvador or honduras? come the fuck on. for those of you on the guns can do no wrong side: what or when is the line crossed that guns do need some attention? is it ever going to be a gun related problem or will you always skirt it to blame society, education, movies, games, etc? I agree mass shootings of any kind are disturbing. And before 1982 they were very rare. Since 1982 there has been at least one almost every year, and they just get worse and worse. My question is, what happened? Why 1982? Personally I don't blame video games, music or movies. I watch violent movies, listen to violent music and have played violent video games for hours on end, and will never be inspired to walk into a public place and randomly shoot at people. The media has to take a portion of blame for the sensationalist reactions, and the 24/7 news coverage, which to anyone should be obvious in inspiring copy cat(s). I will just repeat what was said by Ben Swann in that youtube video, it's the heart of the man or women, not the gun. I don't get how this is a "straw man" though. Piers and countless other media outlets around the country are spinning lies to bend peoples emotions, make things out to seem worse than they are, and to surrender the last line of defense when it comes to tyranny from local and federal authority. I can't blame an inanimate object for killing anything, so to answer your question yes. Is it the car or the drunk driver? And just to end on the mass murder point, governments all over the world have committed more mass murders than any individual. The gif posted above with a dog chasing it's tail is exactly what this is, I am truly sorry that you don't see things from my perspective, clearly this debate on this forum will do nothing to change public opinion or stop the legislation that I know is coming regardless of how stupid I think it is. I just hope that I never have to say "I told you so". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 i don't disagree about the gif. mass killings (as those happening in the last decade) don't happen w/o guns. the china attack on the same day as sandy hook is an incredible comparison. guns are the enabler. sure, people could use explosives but that involves planning and knowledge. how hard does one have to train/think with an ar15 to accomplish killing 4+ people? i don't think less of anyone that is genuinely thinking this through, i don't think i have a complete answer. i think denying that the volume of guns in our nation is a significant piece of our mass murder problem is insane... but its a muddled problem so who knows i guess. like the gif says, we're running in circles and likely will maintain doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's a dog chasing its tail, then smacking its head into a door...THEN chasing its tail some more. Anyway, I was talking about this with someone earlier because there was another school shooting today...he's a substitute teacher here in Oakland, and is understandably freaked out. So we chatted for a bit via email, and here's what I had to say- "Every time there's a mass shooting/murder I say the same thing- "Guns aren't the problem, the problem is the problem...and because you can't or won't confront the problem, don't expect anything to change." "Since there's no one cause and Americans lack the ability to look at situations holistically, here's a thumbnail look at the problem as I see it- it's diet, the mass media, education, consumer culture, pharmaceuticals, unrealistic standards of success in a capitalist system- basically the whole ball of wax...but above all I think the biggest issue is that most people don't see a way out of it, and that eventually wears them out. Some physically, others spiritually/mentally. And since everyone's too busy/burnt out/self-absorbed to listen to someone else's problems, there's no sense of mutual support or community...so you have a nation of people who are isolated and living these unhealthy lifestyles. After a lifetime of that, who wouldn't be a little crazy? "...You can fix some of these problems yourself by opting out of all of the crap that comes with convenience, but even that's become a commodity. Growing up I remember reading about how the future held all of this promise thanks to technology and cooperation- what they don't tell you when you're a kid is that every front has a back, and when they said we would be working less and living longer they didn't mention that we'd be working less because we outsourced all the jobs...and that we'd be living longer, but we'd also be fatter, unhealthier, and more sedentary. I'm not entirely pessimistic, but I also live in a fairly progressive place...and there's millions of people who refuse to listen when you talk about how the US is killing itself. I mean, we can't even admit we were catastrophically wrong about marijuana even though the facts speak for themselves. That sort of says it all to me... "...The other trick is finding a receptive audience before the shit hits the fan. I mean, you'd think people killing each other for no clear cut reason would be enough, right? No, everyone uses the latest tragedy as a soapbox for arguing about guns instead of saying "Jeez, what the hell is going on here?" The same people don't see occupations as taking a stand against what's wrong with society, they see it as a direct threat to a system that works for them, albeit in the short term." I was trying to sum this up over the last few months, and I think he finally kicked it into perspective. He's a great guy...good with kids, but maybe a little too sensitive to really compartmentalize what's going on in the world right now. I hope he's all right, he's one of the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 jon stewart's response I don't usually post videos but this is pretty solid and applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 so let's ban "evil" assault rifles so there will be no more massacre ? just remember about virginia tech massacre where ching chong used a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun to kill 32 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLovin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 how to effectively handle a televised debate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLovin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 A 5 Step Plan To Significantly Reduce Gun Violence in the US by Robert Wenzel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Incognito Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 it took 7 pages but im finally getting bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Since we are trying to entertain Incognito here's my favorite bear arm's meme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 ^Tried to find the one with a Jerry bear and a AK but could not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 shit. do you guys remember years ago, like 00 01 or so there was a website with joke "zack de la rocha lyrics of fury" that had a song about vegans giving guns to bears. my google skillz are failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/08/former-gen-mcchrystal-assault-rifles-are-for-battlefields-not-schools/ mcchrystal on assault weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 oh sweet false dichotomy and hyperbole. i've never wanted to neg you before rips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walid Jumblat Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Soldiers are citizens too! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 armed citizens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walid Jumblat Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Soldiers and police are armed citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realism Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Using this case is only slightly out of context... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 In a Nut's Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Soldiers and police are armed citizens. Yeah they are, but they don't work for civilians. Which is the entire point. I already see the spin coming, but spin away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walid Jumblat Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Leon Panetta, Barak Obama, Janet NApolitano and Eric Holder are all civilians. No spin, all fact, fair and balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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