DVD Wars

[serum]

im sure none of you have this problem but my biggest gripe is with all these different zones in dvd land. if it were all on one region then i could watch films from any country and actually have the subtitles. in japan they have absolutely no subtitles besides the japanese. so if i were watching a chinese or korean film id have to read/listen to it in japanese in hopes of understanding what the hell is going on. no english what so ever. but in hk or singapore they have every damn language under the sun available. i dont know if this is just a japan thing or what but it bugs the hell out of me since this was the major reason for me using dvd was the subtitles.:hatred:

[fermentor666]

DVD format war looms

 

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 3:14 p.m. EDT (19:14 GMT)

 

 

 

BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- Chances looked slim that consumers will be spared a DVD format war, as the backers of one standard said on Friday there was no common ground for a unified format and it was on track for a market launch within a year.

 

"If we want a unified standard, it has to be better than the sum of the parts. We would like to find something that's better in the other standard than ours, but we haven't found it," said Frank Simonis, a spokesman for backers of the Blu-ray standard.

 

Speaking on the sidelines of the IFA consumer electronics trade fair, Simonis said the Blu-ray association was ready to lay down the specifications of the higher-capacity DVD format in the spring of 2006.

 

The rival HD DVD camp has recently had to push back its launch into the New Year. "We're no longer lagging behind," said Simonis, who is also strategic marketing director at the optical storage unit of Philips Electronics.

 

At stake is the multibillion dollar market for DVD players, PC drivers and optical disks. Blu-ray promises higher capacity DVD disks (up to 50 Gigabytes) that can store high definition films and better interactivity and security.

 

The HD DVD camp, on the other hand, claims it has a cheaper technology compatible with current DVD and CD players.

 

Blu-ray is backed by the majority of electronics makers, including Sony, Matsushita, Samsung, Philips, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Apple and Hitachi.

 

The HD-DVD camp consists of Toshiba, NEC Corp. and Sanyo Electric as main hardware vendors.

 

The battle between the two camps has become intense after a failed attempt this spring by several of the main Japanese electronics companies to bring together the two standards.

 

The support of the Hollywood studios and television producers, crucial partners who will have to print pre-recorded disks with movies and TV series, has been more evenly spread and many have held their options open.

 

However, studio owner 20th Century Fox said at IFA it had chosen Blu-ray after its backers improved security features that will prevent DVD piracy hurting the industry.

 

"We talked to both formats and asked them: 'What are you going to do about content protection?' We asked them to step up their content protection in a serious way, and the members of Blu-ray association won," said Andy Setos, president of engineering at the studio which is owned by News Corp.

 

He also said that production costs of Blu-ray are "competitive" and that the format is interoperable with existing DVDs and CDs formats.

 

Hollywood is suffering from rampant piracy, because the initial DVD standard that was put together exactly 10 years ago had been rushed to market and lacked features to prevent unauthorized copying and playback.

 

"DVD is not good. It isn't secure, the capacity is too low, the bit rate is too low," Simonis said.

 

In China in particular, many films are reproduced on DVDs illegally and sold at a dollar apiece on street corners. "We sell 20,000 DVDs a year in China, and they're priced at just $4.99. Just to prove a point," Setos said.

 

Yet, even the piracy underlines the success of DVD. It has been the fastest-adopted technology in consumer electronics history and has generated billions of euros in royalties for the inventors, a broad base of consumer electronics companies including firms now divided over its successor.

 

The fight for license income may yet hurt the interests of consumers who face two disk formats which do not play back in all devices, invoking memories of the VHS-Betamax war for the VHS standard, or more recently the rewritable DVD standard.

 

On top of that, consumers should expect punishment for tinkering with their Blu-ray players, as many have done with current DVD players, for instance to remove regional coding. The new, Internet-connected and secure players will report any "hack" and the device can be disabled remotely.

 

"A hacked player is any player that is doing something it's not supposed to do," Setos said, adding the jury was still out if regional coding would be maintained or scrapped.

 

The controversial regional code prevents DVD disks that have been bought in one continent to play on devices elsewhere.

 

Copyright 2005 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

 

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/09/02/d...reut/index.html

[Herbivore]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9501255/

 

 

Intel, Microsoft take sides on next-gen DVDs

 

Tech giants throw support to HD DVD format over rival Blu-ray

MSN Tech & Gadgets

 

Updated: 10:37 a.m. ET Sept. 27, 2005

SAN JOSE, Calif. - Intel Corp. and Microsoft Corp., the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers, are throwing their support behind the next-generation DVD standard known as HD DVD.

 

After taking a neutral stance for months in the battle between the competing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats, the companies said Tuesday they have joined the HD DVD Promotion Group that includes Toshiba Corp., Universal Studios and others.

 

The move means upcoming PCs running Microsoft's upcoming Windows Vista operating system or Intel's Viiv entertainment technology will come with support for HD DVD drives. (MSNBC is a Microsoft-NBC joint venture.)

 

"We want to make sure that whatever is put out on the market is going to be as consumer friendly as possible from the price and usability point of view," said Blair Westlake, vice president of Microsoft's Media/Entertainment and Technology Convergence Group.

 

The decision by Microsoft and Intel pits the two largest makers of equipment for PCs against many of the companies that build and sell computers. Blu-ray is backed by Sony Corp., Apple Computer Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc., along with a variety of other tech companies and studios.

 

"We don't see this announcement as anything that will shift the momentum that Blu-ray Disc has experienced," said Josh Peterson, HP's director of strategic alliances and a Blu-ray spokesman.

 

It was not clear how Microsoft and Intel's move would affect the stance of computer makers, but the PC industry has managed to skirt confusion over dueling standards in the past by offering drives that can handle multiple formats.

 

Efforts so far to merge the standards into a single format have gone nowhere as tech companies and studios have divided into the two camps. Analysts say consumers are likely to stick with standard DVDs until there is a resolution.

 

Though Intel and Microsoft's action gives the HD DVD group additional muscle, it does not deal a knockout blow to Blu-ray.

 

"We have no plans to build native Windows support for Blu-ray or other HD formats," said Jordi Ribas, technical strategy director for Microsoft's Windows Digital Media Division. "That doesn't mean third parties could not build that support on their own."

 

HD DVD will offer consumers the ability to keep on their PCs a copy of a movie that can be streamed to other devices in the home. It also allows studios to store high definition and standard versions of a movie on a disk.

 

Westlake also said the HD DVD camp has made inroads with manufacturers in China, where most of the world's DVD players are currently built. Without that support, it would be difficult to quickly deploy the technology at a low price.

 

"(Blu-ray) does not have that relationship and we're concerned about whether that offering of Chinese players will be there. We know HD DVD will be," Westlake said.

 

Peterson said Blu-ray technology can be licensed by any company anywhere in the world.

 

Supporters of Blu-ray have claimed they have a more sophisticated technology with a greater storage capacity. HD DVD companies have pointed to the fact that their offering will be available sooner and at less cost _ an argument disputed by the Blu-ray group.

 

HD DVD supporters also say their offering will be available sooner.

 

"Blu-ray is very robust, but it's also not here," said Richard Doherty, research director for the Envisioneering Group. "The PC industry has clearly backed the system that is weeks away from commercialization."

[SF1]

...

[SF1]

This is why I prefer my VHS. At least the shit's universal and is alot more durable than them flimsy fucking scratchmagnets.

 

 

 

LOL! I seen some douche on the History chanell talking about how much more durable CDs/DVDs were compared to VHS And he tried to demonstrate and it took him all of his strength to finally snap the tape (after pulling back the protective cover), all the while telling you how a dog could chew it up! :dozey:

Then he turns around and gently flexes (gently as fuck) a CD and talks about how durable they are after he just used all his strength to snap a VHS tape (after pulling it out of it's plastic case, and telling you that a dog could do the same). Never even mentioning what would happen if a dog got to a CD/DVD. :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[Herbivore]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9582347/

 

Paramount backs Blu-ray for next-gen DVDs

Studio had previously said it would release films on rival HD DVD

 

Updated: 6:16 p.m. ET Oct. 3, 2005

TOKYO/LOS ANGELES - In the latest twist of a heated battle over next-generation DVD technology, Paramount Home Entertainment said it would release high-definition movies in the Blu-ray format backed by a group led by Sony Corp.

 

Paramount, a film studio owned by Viacom Inc. had previously said it would release titles in a competing DVD format called HD DVD that is endorsed by a consortium of electronics makers including Toshiba Corp.

 

A source familiar with the situation said Paramount still aimed to release titles on both HD DVD and Blu-ray formats, although it was not clear whether all titles would be released on both formats.

 

Paramount's move to also support Blu-ray was prompted by the failure of the two factions to join forces before players went on sale, the source familiar with the matter said. Backing both formats would ensure that Paramount supported whichever one eventually won the new format war with consumers.

 

In a statement released late Sunday in the United States, Paramount threw its weight strongly behind the Blu-ray camp but did not mention HD DVD.

 

"After more detailed assessment and new data on cost, manufacturability and copy protection solutions, we have now made the decision to move ahead with the Blu-ray format," Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, said in the release.

 

Toshiba said in a statement Monday that it believed Paramount continued to back HD DVD, basing that position on comments made by Paramount officials in previous press reports.

 

Lesinski said the fact that Sony's next-generation PlayStation 3 game console would come equipped with a Blu-ray DVD player was a key factor behind its support. PlayStation 3 is due to be launched next spring.

 

Sony's PlayStation 2 console, which can play conventional discs, was a key driver of current-generation DVD sales.

 

Paramount's support is a welcome vote of confidence for the Blu-ray camp following news last week that Microsoft Corp. and Intel Corp. the world's top software maker and largest chip maker, were throwing their weight behind HD DVD.

 

Next-generation DVD discs, designed to store movies and other content with much more detail and clarity, have sparked a three-year battle between Toshiba and Sony, over what is expected to be a multi-billion-dollar market for next-generation DVD players, PC drives and optical discs.

 

Paramount joins Sony Pictures Entertainment, The Walt Disney Co. and News Corp. unit Twentieth Century Fox in backing Blu-ray, although like Paramount, Disney and Fox have not ruled out the possibility of also releasing movies for HD DVD.

 

Universal Studios, a unit of General Electric Co.'s NBC Universal, and Warner Bros. Studios have endorsed HD DVD.

 

The first HD DVD-compatible players and recorders are expected to start appearing on store shelves as early as the end of this year in Japan, and new products for both formats are scheduled for wider release in 2006.

 

Earlier this year, Sony and Toshiba briefly held talks over unifying their formats and avoiding an all-out standards war similar to the one between the VHS and Betamax videocassette formats, but those discussions fizzled.

 

At the core of both formats are blue lasers, which have a shorter wavelength than the red lasers used in current DVD equipment, allowing discs to store data at the higher densities needed for high-definition movies and television.

[fermentor666]

Fuck, all this shit is going to get so confusing. So is Blockbuster going to carry two different DVDs for the same movie? Or make that 4, two both for flatscreen and widescreen.

[RumPuncher]

I heard that HD-DVD got the release date pushed back, which could kill them.

Also, the PS3 will play both formats, despite the games being authored on Blu-ray

[fermentor666]

What about everyone's old DVD-Players, like the DVD-R/RW in my computer? Is that going to have to be replaced by this new technology in order for me to watch current movies and play current games? It's such bullshit how these companies have us by our balls.

[RumPuncher]

the worst is apple.

 

bought an ipod?

FUCK YOU BUY AN IPOD PHOTO

 

bout an iPod mini?

FUCK YOU BUY AN IPOD SHUFFLE

FUCK YOU AGAIN BUY AN IPOD NANO

[John Birch]

oy vey, I'm never gonna be able to buy a laptop...

[PushbuttonWarfare]

Originally posted by fermentor666@Sep 4 2005, 04:09 PM

On top of that, consumers should expect punishment for tinkering with their Blu-ray players, as many have done with current DVD players, for instance to remove regional coding. The new, Internet-connected and secure players will report any "hack" and the device can be disabled remotely.

 

"A hacked player is any player that is doing something it's not supposed to do," Setos said, adding the jury was still out if regional coding would be maintained or scrapped.

 

 

 

 

Oh man, the hilarity of the thought. How dare you fuck with something you own! Instead of buying a different copy! You insolent fucker!

[fermentor666]

Originally posted by RumPuncher@Oct 12 2005, 12:58 AM

the worst is apple.

 

bought an ipod?

FUCK YOU BUY AN IPOD PHOTO

 

bout an iPod mini?

FUCK YOU BUY AN IPOD SHUFFLE

FUCK YOU AGAIN BUY AN IPOD NANO

Quoted post

 

 

 

Not really, that's just excessive. I mean, no matter how many I-Pods they make they'll all still play the same format. A new I-Pod will not make the MP3 obsolete. And whatever new I-Pod comes out, it doesn't strip the old ones of their functionability, they just stop selling them. I have a 20 Gig non-color and I can still use it and add songs to it.

 

This DVD shit, however, is fucked because the only way we have to play a DVD is......a DVD player! There's no DVD equivalent to Winamp, a disc-man, a walkman, a Creative Labs mp3 player, an I-Pod, a boombox, a radio, etc etc etc.

 

The MPAA has us by the fucking balls when it comes to entertainment and they obviously know this.

[Weapon X]

Paramount just jumped ship from HDDVD to Blu-Ray. Warner Brothers is expected to follow suit.

 

I'll put some money on Blu-Ray.

 

* link: http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=194

[RumPuncher]

I was talking more about the iCult that has to have all the new apple products.

Certainly you can still rock a first generation iPod and it's still a usefull piece of gear.

 

The one thing that kills me about Apple....

 

iTunes is set up to rip to AC3 on default, so those files are Mac only.

(unless you get an patch to play it on a PC, which simple users cant figure out)

Sure it's designed to slow down file sharing, but I just dont like the way it's done.

[Weapon X]

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_c...d=2371&Itemid=2

 

 

Sony Pictures has announced that its Blu-ray disc format will hit U.S. stores on May 23, which is the same day that Samsung's BD player will be released.

 

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment and MGM Home Entertainment have eight Blu-ray titles planned, with another eight due to release on June 13.

 

Some of the first Blu-ray titles include 50 First Dates, The Fifth Element, Hitch, House of Flying Daggers, A Knight's Tale, The Last Waltz, Resident Evil Apocalypse and XXX.

 

The June 13 titles include Kung Fu Hustle, Legends of the Fall, Robocop, Stealth, Species, SWAT and Terminator, with Underworld Evolution due in early summer.

 

Pioneer and Sony BD players will soon follow Samsung's device, along with a compatible Sony VAIO PC. The players will be available in stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City.

 

The PlayStation 3 will be capable of playing Blu-ray movies, and the actual drive component has been the center of speculation of the console's potentially large price tag.

[fermentor666]

Hey guys! Remember this thread?

 

Take a look at how HD-DVD is beating out BluRay in sales:

 

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

 

 

Or how Sony is running into some backwards compatibility issues with their BluRay players and older HDTVs (among other things):

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/story?id=2699492

 

Dec. 4

 

The Sony Blu-ray debacle is making the HD DVD-versus-Blu-ray battle even more complicated. Sony, essentially the group leader for Blu-ray, has had to further delay the release of its player. All the while, manufacturers are making Blu-ray discs and shipping titles, with a great selection coming from Paramount. The culprit is apparently the blue laser diode. Sony can't get enough of them.

 

For Sony to ship the PS3 by Christmas, all the blue laser diodes need to be used for that box rather than for the Blu-ray home entertainment players. Since it's been three or four years ago now that I first saw a Blu-ray player, you'd think Sony would have done a better job of planning, wouldn't you? How many years does it take for them to order parts?

 

I wonder about the reaction of all those early adopters who bought projectors and flat-panels and large-screen TVs a few years ago and are just about to realize that all the new HD players will work only with an HDMI interface that uses the HDCP (high-bandwidth digital copy protection) protocol. To be honest, I think Sony may be stalling to see exactly what the crescendo of complaints will be like for the other manufacturers. "Hey, when I bought your $3,000 screen it was supposed to play high-def content! What gives? Now I have to buy a new screen?!?!"

 

This is made worse for companies such as Sony that sell the high-definition screen and the Blu-ray player and make the movies, too. Because the early Sony HD displays will not play a Sony movie from a Sony player in high def, I expect massive customer complaints and demands for free upgrades or money back. Poor Sony.

 

What I do not fully understand is why these players do not allow for simple component video (RGB or variations) output in full HD. The Hollywood studios are concerned that people want to pirate everything the studios produce, and the big fear is that people will make perfect digital dubs if copy protection is not in place. But a component feed is analog, so what's the fear? The fact is these oh-so-fearful studios are actually losing money with all this fumbling.

 

The big losers in the HDMI-only fiasco will be the early adopters who built elaborate projector-based home theaters. A clean component video signal can be accurately sent over a cable upward of 200 feet long. With HDMI the signal normally starts to fall apart at 25 feet.

 

------------

 

Then there's this side-by-side comparision from a tech site that wound up in the favor of HD-DVD:

 

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060801-7399.html

 

In the high definition horse race, it's HD DVD by a nose

 

8/1/2006 1:14:22 PM, by Nate Anderson

 

Blu-Ray and HD DVD have been locked in battle for supremacy in the next-generation optical disc wars, but it has so far been difficult to compare the merits of both technologies in head-to-head tests. Both had rocky product launches, and when the first players were finally released, each had problems. Toshiba's HD DVD was crippled by long load times (now improved), while the Samsung Blu-Ray player was also no speed demon, and had some scaling issues to boot.

 

Until the same disc was released in both formats, though, accurate comparisons weren't possible. Now that Warner has released three titles on both formats, comparisons have begun in earnest. High-Def Digest was one of the first sites to take an in-depth look at Training Day, Rumor Has It..., and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Their conclusion? The nod goes to HD DVD.

 

An unusual issue appeared right away. Training Day had cropping problems, with the Blu-ray version of the movie showing an estimated three to four percent less detail at the edges of the picture. The problem also "cropped up" in the other two films. With only one Blu-ray player available, it is impossible to say whether the problem is caused by the transfer process or by the player itself.

 

But Blu-ray's problems didn't end there. Occasional compression artifacts and brightness issues also led the site to crown HD DVD the winner. "In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior," wrote Peter Bracke. "The unfortunate cropping of the Blu-ray image, coupled with more noticeable compression artifacts and an overall darker cast, can't compete with the more consistently pleasing presentation of the HD DVD."

 

Both formats are capable of exceptional picture quality; the differences mentioned appear to be minor and might not even be noticed by the average consumer. Still, early adopters who purchase expensive hardware are unlikely to be "average consumers" and may well care about such nuances.

 

------------------------

 

 

And there's a hell of a lot more out there that seems to put HD-DVD on top, although HD-DVD isn't neccessarily free of problems. I'd post more but my internet is all fucked right now.

[stunt double]

haha, by the sound of the article. blu ray is only being pushed by hollywood and shit to prevent piracy.

[fermentor666]

It definitly does not appear to be several hundred dollars better than HD-DVD.

[~KRYLON2~]

technology pisses me off becuse everytime you buy sumthin 2yrs later its allready outdated and sucks ass compared to the newer stuff

[fermentor666]

The scene in "40-Year Old Virgin" where Steve Carrell is talking to Catherine Keener for the first time and is showing her the DVD players, he says that she doesn't want VHS because it's a dead technology and tells her to get a DVD/VHS combo instead. And she says "ok, that sounds good , but it'll probably go out of date in a year" and Carell says "actually about six months". Of course, at the time of that movie (about a year ago), Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were just getting released, so it was actually pretty relevant, self-aware comedy.

[After School Special]

I still don't see blue ray becoming the norm.

 

40 dollars for Flyboys.

 

Wowwie!

 

I don't even cough up 20 bucks for a DVD.

 

I'd argue that the general public doesn't even know what Blue Ray is.

[fermentor666]

Keep in mind that "Flyboys" was entirely independantly produced for $40 Million and did crap at box office. The high price might be a way to re-coup losses.

 

 

From Wiki:

 

Average Blu-Ray writable disc: 17.99 (25 gig)

Average HD-DVD writable disc: 14.99 (15 gig)

 

 

Top 10 in products (lower score is better) Blu-Ray: 808.7 HD-DVD: 782.1

in top 1,000 (higher score is better) Blu-Ray: 6 HD-DVD: 8

in top 10,000 (higher score is better) Blu-Ray:70 HD-DVD: 94

Number of DVD's that can be shipped today (higher number is better)

Blu-Ray: 131 HD-DVD: 146

Number of DVD's that can be purchased today (higher number is better)

Blu-Ray: 178 HD-DVD: 168

 

Average Amazon Prices Blu-Ray: $22.20 HD-DVD: $21.80

 

Sales Rank of #1 product of each format

Blu-Ray:The Prestige #154 HD-DVD: Clerks II #286

 

 

Price of Players:

 

Blu-ray Disc

 

* PlayStation 3 $499/$599

* Samsung BD-P1000 $799

* Panasonic DMP-BD10 $1299

* Sony BDP-S1 $999

 

 

HD DVD

 

* Xbox 360 HD DVD player $199.99 (Xbox 360 console or high-end PC required)

* Toshiba HD-XA2 (release date and price unknown)

* Toshiba HD-XA1 $799

* Toshiba HD-A1 $499

 

 

Dual-Format players

 

LG has just realeased that it will be designing and manufacturing a Hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player. Release date has been said to be in early to mid 2007[1]

 

 

Combo Discs

 

Warner has just announced that they will produce a HD DVD / Blu-ray combo disc. This will have Blue-ray on one side and HD DVD on the other. This might cause the format war to end.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu_Ray_Vs._HD-DVD

 

 

 

Of course, again if you look at http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/ you will see HD-DVD as a clear winner, so far.