discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[russell jones]

Spinoza felt that God was merely the realization of an infinite set of possibilities as played out through the existenceof the universe.

 

Spinoza sounds like a contemporary cosmologist! The definition to me seems to say, "God is everything" and at the same time perhaps saying, "God is the ultimate reality." Still difficult for me to latch on to. I do not think that I can trace the existence of the universe back to anything ultimate or absolute, perhaps I could keep going "beyond the infinite," never reaching an absolute, simply searching forever. Perhaps the search will close in on itself, leading to no ultimate explanations. While in the process of writing this, I have seen more connections between cosmology and Spinoza's definition. I wonder if Spinoza has read any Zen philosophers?

 

I hope this makes some sort of sense.

[russell jones]

I think there has been a need for Western philosphers to find some answers that depend on nothing, a sort of ultimate. They want to know what it all leads to, where it all came from. Maybe it is an outgrowth of the binary nature of European languages, or perhaps the culture of Christianity and Judaism with its yes's and no's.

[the.crooked]

Spinoza was the first major character in philosophy after Descarte. I don't think he read Zen. However there is much literature dedicated to the parallels of Spinoza's monism to Taoism, Bhuddism and other such concepts.

 

As to your statement about western philosophers and an absolute. I think that is impossible until we move past post-modernism/postsrtucturalism/deconsctruction. Let alone if that is infact even possible.

[Some1]

Black is beautiful, names from the 70's, let me tap into your energy...

[fermentor666]

Wow. why dont we make a new topic called. THE MATRIX. WHATS IT REALLY ABOUT!

lmfao. why do u say im wrong? its not an official site. I could make up a site called "jesus-explained.com" and there are probably millions of people that would belive my point of view, but that doesnt make it right.

Moving on. any other points why god would exist.

 

 

I'm saying you're wrong because he is controlled by fate, he is "the one". It's the whole point of the movie. It's nitpicking but if you're making an argument you gotta know your sources.

[En Sabah Nur]

god's not real.

[russell jones]

monkeys are real, maybe we should worship them.

[Enmity]

I think there is something greater than us or a higher being that we dont know of. but as for the bible and stuff like religion and all that i think its contradicting (sp) and man twisted it up so much that i dont even think that it is what it was. all this crazy talk is just too much for me i can barely handle reality as it is people see some fucked up shit and the human mind is something that NO ONE ON THIS PLANET UNDERSTANDS . it is so complex that we dont even know what we are capable of .

 

yes i belive that there is a higher being "God" thumbs up to whoever you are thanks alot for putting me on this shithole .... big ups

[MAR]

To say G-d doesnt exsist because there is pain and suffering in the world is faulty logic. How many times have you had something happen that seemed bad but in the end turned out alright or you learned something valuable?

 

To say something doesnt exsist because you cant see it or understand it seems ignorant. At the most you can say your not sure if it exsists.

 

In my experience though, its the people who jump up and down and yell and scream that there is no G-d that want to believe in one the most.

[El Mamerro]

The Battle of the New Atheism

 

Long read, but worth it.

[MAR]

very interesting.

[russell jones]

I realized from this article that I should call myself an atheist instead of an agnostic.

[Dawood]

I leave for a whole month and all you numbskulls can come up with is the matrix?

Weak, fellas very flimsy. Anyway, take the blue pill and see how deep the Rabbit hole goes.

[El Mamerro]

About 4 and a half feet.

[fermentor666]

Dude, c'mon. It's the Matrix!

[Dawood]

yeah, I liked the matrix too. I never saw the sequel. I don't really watch movies much.

No time for that, but the first one had me leaving the movie theater looking at life a

little different, (for a few days anyway) to me islam was the real eye opener.

[El Mamerro]

From Fins to Wings

 

Scientists still have a long way to go in understanding the evolution of complexity, which isn't surprising since many of life's devices evolved hundreds of millions of years ago. Nevertheless, new discoveries are revealing the steps by which complex structures developed from simple beginnings. Through it all, scientists keep rediscovering a few key rules. One is that a complex structure can evolve through a series of simpler intermediates. Another is that nature is thrifty, modifying old genes for new uses and even reusing the same genes in new ways, to build something more elaborate.

 

Sean Carroll, a biologist at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, likens the body-building genes to construction workers. "If you walked past a construction site at 6 p.m. every day, you'd say, Wow, it's a miracle—the building is building itself. But if you sat there all day and saw the workers and the tools, you'd understand how it was put together. We can now see the workers and the machinery. And the same machinery and workers can build any structure."

 

 

 

Check this out Dawood. Not that long of a read.

[Smart]

Science is a differential equation,

Religion is a boundary condition.

+++

[¤Shark¤]

Yep. As I said, aside of the matrix, god is in our heads, thats what "faith" IS. believing in something you do not know will happned, or exists.

 

As for MAR saying

 

To say G-d doesnt exsist because there is pain and suffering in the world is faulty logic. How many times have you had something happen that seemed bad but in the end turned out alright or you learned something valuable?

 

To say something doesnt exsist because you cant see it or understand it seems ignorant. At the most you can say your not sure if it exsists.

 

In my experience though, its the people who jump up and down and yell and scream that there is no G-d that want to believe in one the most.

 

How can saying this be faulty logic? because 1+1=3? is that faulty logic, or is it a misconception. u, are misconcepted my friend.

 

Why is it when people get saved from a flood its an act of god, yet when it flodds its a disaster???

[russell jones]

Yep. As I said, aside of the matrix, god is in our heads, thats what "faith" IS. believing in something you do not know will happned, or exists.

 

As for MAR saying

 

 

 

How can saying this be faulty logic? because 1+1=3? is that faulty logic, or is it a misconception. u, are misconcepted my friend.

 

Why is it when people get saved from a flood its an act of god, yet when it flodds its a disaster???

 

Excellent question.

[MAR]

How can saying this be faulty logic? because 1+1=3? is that faulty logic, or is it a misconception. u, are misconcepted my friend.

 

I'm not sure I understand your question, but Im going to try to answer it anyway. So if I didnt get it please correct me.

 

Basiclly what I was trying to say before was you cant say that something (In our case G-d) doesnt exist because there is pain a suffering. For one, we dont understand G-d's reasons for doing whatever he does. Also by stating that G-d cant be real because of negitive things happen in this world limits him to a less then powerful being and therefore he's not godlike anymore.

 

Why is it when people get saved from a flood its an act of god, yet when it flodds its a disaster???

 

This is a problem with the human mindset. We as people tend to remeber G-d when good things happen or in our deepest sorrow but when things are going alright its an idea that barely sits in the back of our heads.

 

G-d caused the flood for a reason, G-d saved people for a reason. Most of the time we wont know why. We can guess but we will never know.

[Smart]

Why is it when people get saved from a flood its an act of god, yet when it flodds its a disaster???

 

Spoken like someone who has never made an insurance claim or missed an outdoor concert due to a rain storm. Some say 'force majeure' some say 'act of god' and some say 'disaster' but it's all the same thing when you're the one who 'lost it all'...

[¤Shark¤]

^^^HAHAHA Yeh i know. and with alot of phones these days the insurence certificate says that it will not be replaced under "An act of god". pretty stupid.

 

For one, we dont understand G-d's reasons for doing whatever he does. Also by stating that G-d cant be real because of negitive things happen in this world limits him to a less then powerful being and therefore he's not godlike anymore.

 

So therefore are u saying god has "limited powers" and he is less than a powerful being, only because we says negative things happen?...because you wrote that. and this confirms my point that god is something made up in peoples minds to "give them a friend" so to speak,

People use "god" so they have something to belive in when everybody else doesnt. all this is, is a persons ability to imagine and use their thoughts in such a way that it will benefit their overall sense of wellbeing.

If you have a basic understanding of psychology you will know diseases and disorders such as "schizophrenia". This disease effects the mind and has such symptoms as: dillusions, hallucinations, and generalisation.

Are all the hallucinations, and dillusions that a person with this disease sees real? isnt that why they are labelled hallucinations? If someone with this disease "thinks" someone is out to get them, does this make it true?

This is very important to know, because "god" COULD indeed be labelled as the biggest dilusions of all time. We have NO proof, and I stress NO becuase it is the same thing with a schizophrenic person...there has been in no recorded case that a persons dillusions with this disease was EVER real.

 

We still basically know nothing about the mind. it is so complex. and yet, we know humans have the ability to imagine, to see things that aren't there. If god is real, how come there are so many different stories (RELIGIONS) about how he came to be, and all the different ways the universe was created. I agree that the BIG BANG theory is bullshit, but that aside, how come there is only ONE being that is almighty and powerful??? how did he make the universe? how can he CONTROL everthing that happens? and if he cant, why is he so powerful.

 

Now ive said "HE" when i refer to god. All religions that i know about, there maybe some i dont so i dont speak for all, refer to god as a HE. how the hell could anyone even know that, since it wasn't written in any bible that i know about.

 

What im trying to get at is, god is basically a part of our imagination, our imaginary friend. If you belive in it or not, i dont care, but what im saying is that, if you belive he exists, then you dont have to belive what is written in the bible. and if this is the case, then you do not really belive in "god" but you have faith. and what is faith? It is believing in something that u dont know is there or that will happen.

 

My $10

[MAR]

I get the feeling you dont know jack shit about religions.

 

So therefore are u saying god has "limited powers" and he is less than a powerful being, only because we says negative things happen?...because you wrote that

show me where I wrote that b/c I didnt.

[Dawood]

I definately didn't get the Idea that mar was implying God had limited powers.

All he was trying to say is God does what he wills for whatever reason he wants and our

understanding is limited , therefore we won't always understand everything that happens.

[Dawood]

As for the existance of God or non existance of God. It would not be feasable that we would beleive that something , for example...like a computer came into existance without the help of an intellegent being, So why would it be reasonable to beleive that EVERYTHING came into existance by itself.

Stupidity does not breed intellegence, therefore in order for something to learn it must be taught. Humans learn through lessons, experience, etc.

How can something come from nothing? It is only reasonable to beleive that something intellegent existed before the existance of the universe. To beleive otherwise is to beleive that it is possible for apples to eventually evolve into a super-intellegent race of fruit beings that imprison humans and take over the galaxy.

Even if you don't want to beleive in religion, ok, that's between you and God, but to disbeleive in God is actually a new idea on planet earth. People ,historically always beleived in a higher power.

[THELASTKILLA!!!]

i heard that humans were a slave race brought to the earth by aliens, and the aliens decided to fuck them which messed up their gold mining operations so they had to fly the fuck out of a volcano and back to their alien home!!!!....seriously though, seriously why else would people love gold so much??:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[russell jones]

How can something come from nothing? It is only reasonable to beleive that something intellegent existed before the existance of the universe. To beleive otherwise is to beleive that it is possible for apples to eventually evolve into a super-intellegent race of fruit beings that imprison humans and take over the galaxy.

 

Then who created God?

[¤Shark¤]

^^^HAHAHHA EXACTLY WHAT I WASS GONNA POINT OUT!

 

and mar....

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your question, but Im going to try to answer it anyway. So if I didnt get it please correct me.

 

Basiclly what I was trying to say before was you cant say that something (In our case G-d) doesnt exist because there is pain a suffering. For one, we dont understand G-d's reasons for doing whatever he does. Also by stating that G-d cant be real because of negitive things happen in this world limits him to a less then powerful being and therefore he's not godlike anymore.

 

 

 

This is a problem with the human mindset. We as people tend to remeber G-d when good things happen or in our deepest sorrow but when things are going alright its an idea that barely sits in the back of our heads.

 

G-d caused the flood for a reason, G-d saved people for a reason. Most of the time we wont know why. We can guess but we will never know.

 

There is where u said, god can be limited because of what we say....seriously...wtf..lol:lol: :lol:

 

and Dawood:

 

Yes, ur saying that a computer needs a more intellgient being for it to be created, such as HUMANS, but....remember, humans were NOT! the first form of life on earth. so are u saying god created dinosaurs?. what about before that. when micro-organisms started to develope, and then evolve into dinosaurs...? Science has PROVEN the existance of such creatures, and yet, NOT GOD.

So therefore i leave you with the point...who created god?? since according to u there MUST have been something before nothing.

 

The something before nothing is also a "theory" if you actually realised or not, i dont know. According to my theory, the universe has always existed...but then again, who am "I" theorise anything.....im a person, its my mind, and i wont stop saying it, but thats all god is...just a piece of your mind to make you feel better about yourself, and to give u something to belive in, something like god solves all your questions, God is the ultimate answer, and if you accept it, then u people will no longer go through life looking for questions to answer, thats what makes u so dull.

[El Mamerro]

Even if you don't want to beleive in religion, ok, that's between you and God, but to disbeleive in God is actually a new idea on planet earth. People ,historically always beleived in a higher power.

 

Considering that if the life of planet Earth were reduced to a day, the amount of time human beings capable of believing in God have been on it would amount to the blink of an eye at 11:59 PM, I'd say not believing in God is a pretty ancient idea.