porque Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 ...where are you guys getting the information about her 'beating a cat to death with a stick'?...becasue i didn't see anything about that... ...i'll be back with more comments in a moment...i'm doing some research first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 ...well i looked all around on the web for some credible info...and i found a couple of intersting things out...one...this story is almost a year old (december 2003)...but more importantly, not one major art magazine had anything to say about the exhibition at all... ...what bothers me about this is when people disconnected with the art world go about portraying their ideas about what they think art is and should be..when you look at art with a critical approach you just take things for what they are, you look for the reasoning behind their prescense in the piece, what it contributes to the piece...you don't allow the shock novelty to become the piece, you question whether the shock value is used effectively and to what end... ...i don't condone the killing of animals...but i will never say that an artist doesn't have the right to explore something just becasue it is socially unacceptable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENO ELPMIS Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 no offense to anybody who "dug" this stuff but mouse finger puppets? some of this stuff reminds me of the movie "the cell". but more fucked up cause its real. whatever to each "her" own but im not down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brusheskill Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 ^^^ yea, mouse finger puppets? that is just gross. i would question this as being creative. i would say maybe more bold or brave. killing things and photographing them isnt that new. some say its a fetish and others that did it were just mentally messed up. its wierd though because she doesnt really show the animals "insides" so why do they have to be real animals, why cant she fabricate models of animals and use those? man... i dont even know, this is so wierd. i dont know if i like it or if i dont. i think the notions of the dead animals in her pictures overpowers the artistic feel. all i see in the pictures are dead animals adn nice colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I remember reading a long time ago about some performance artist who bought a feeder mouse, and put up flyers all over town that at 3 PM on a certain day, he would kill the mouse by crushing it with a stone. His argument was that the mouse was destined to a much more painful death at the mercy of a pet snake, and that in fact he would give the mouse a much more humane death than that it was destined for. Of course, people went insane over it in protest, and the guy was stopped (I think even arrested) before he performed the act. Like Seeks said, the confrontation it demands is powerful. I don't like the style one bit, but it is appropiate for the commentary. The shock value would be there if it was just pictures of the animals dead on the floor. Her arrangements are what push it beyond the shock value and into actual concept. Until I know more information on how these animals were actually killed, I'll reserve my judgment on this woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 yeah, from what i gather, i think this goes beyond shock value as well, because it really does open up a very real and very important line of conversation. the point of art is to reflect society. this work, 'good' or not, is a valid reflection of the hypocracy of society. people go ape shit at the idea of people eating a dog in asia, but they dont think twice about eating a lamb. it's a total crock of shit. 60 years ago they held lynchings in the middle of towns and killed blacks for looking at white women, now theres outrage over the killing of a mouse who is destined to die anyway? whatever. millions of mice die everyday and life as a whole still goes on. mams, if you dig around and get more info, please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAustin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by brusheskill@Oct 26 2004, 09:32 AM yea, mouse finger puppets? that is just gross. Quoted post actually...I think the mouse puppets are just fucking awesome. I read somewhere in one of those articles that she killed them humanely. Ok...I actually went back and reread the galleries statement and found this little gem...' She has killed the animals in as humane a way as possible'. I seriously doubt that beating them to death with a stick is considered humane. In addition...I think that would really make a much larger mess than she would like as well as possibly damage the body parts that she intends to photograph. I understand the statement she is making about paradoxes, but I am still not all that fond of using shock value to draw attention to ones art. I sometimes find myself wondering about the life span of shock value. I tend to think that eventually...it will be impossible to shock anyone...mainly because its already been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 there was a case in my city about these two guys who skinned a cat and video taped the whole thing. They claim it's art.... I would gladly video tape myself kicking their asses and call that art too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by SteveAustin@Oct 26 2004, 12:46 PM I understand the statement she is making about paradoxes, but I am still not all that fond of using shock value to draw attention to ones art. I sometimes find myself wondering about the life span of shock value. Quoted post if all something has is shock value, then i agree, it's stupid, and will be just a flash in the pan. in this case though, i think there is a very valid subject here. it's not even one of art, but of social norms and acceptibility. there is a lot of work that was probably just seen as 'shock' that i think has a lot of merrit. the guy who cut up the animals and encased them in the glass for instance. i saw that exhibit in london, and while it is shocking, there is definitely something about it that makes you think. same thing with the photography of joel-peter witkin (do a google search, dude is fire) or the guy who uses the wax process to strip bodies of their flesh and preserve them in crazy poses. even marilyn manson, as trite as that whole subject matter is, he did bring a bout a whole lot of valuable discussion. now it's sort of a joke, but he's also moved away from shock as a result. i agree with you totally that shock is dumb, im just really interested by this whole thing and have had a good time thinking about it to myself. that alone proves there must be more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by seeking@Oct 26 2004, 01:22 PM there is a lot of work that was probably just seen as 'shock' that i think has a lot of merrit. the guy who cut up the animals and encased them in the glass for instance. i saw that exhibit in london Quoted post ...damien hirst...great artist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 ...here's somebody you'll either love or hate...this is probably the most controversial art exhibit in recent history... link to the article ...the guys name is Gunther Von Hagen...and yes those are all real dead people...he considers himself to be a scientist working in the best interest of educating the world on anotomy...he doesn't think of himself as an artist, but he shows in galleries because they're willing to show it...really interesting work...unlike the cat girl you can find a lot of information on this guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENO ELPMIS Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by porque+Oct 27 2004, 01:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porque - Oct 27 2004, 01:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-seeking@Oct 26 2004, 01:22 PM there is a lot of work that was probably just seen as 'shock' that i think has a lot of merrit. the guy who cut up the animals and encased them in the glass for instance. i saw that exhibit in london Quoted post ...damien hirst...great artist... Quoted post [/b] word damien hirst is dope, this thing with the bodies is hella bizarre how does he go about getting them?, if the people pre donate themselves for whenever they die im cool with it,its still nuts but i remember in high school my science class had a real human skeleton in a case i guess it was an indian guy it was like 90 years old too. they have to treat the bones with some kind of acid probably bleach em too, not much different. also theres this museum in italy with all these bodies preserved much like these here but theyre like 150 years old they look like they died yester day its wierd its for anatomy pouroses so theyre not riding horses n shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 ...yeah all these people donate their bodies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIZENO Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I saw the Body Works show recently. so very cool to see. Kind of a mind fuck to me though ... there is a pregant woman who died at 8 months and whatever she had it killed the baby too. strange to see the crossection into her belly. i heard after seeing the show over 6,000 more people have signed off to donate their bodies. maybe one of these days there will be enough to have some of these at most every major science museum. And that is only one guy riding the horse ... the front is his muscles the back are his bones. the horse iteslf was just crazy to stand in front of !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I can't think of the photographers name but some guy uses dead people parts and combines them with fruit and other shit and takes black and white photos of it. I think NIN used his work as inspiration for one of their videos long ago. Anyway... I know this is not on topic but it's kind of related. I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. As a cat lover and owner my whole life, I'm a little miffed about the kitty images, but could give a fuck about the bunnies and mice. So it's personal in that respect. If it were a human head and human torso's I would actually be less concerned. Why? I don't know. A human head in a vase with some elizabethen neck cap seems more artistic than a bunny head. I would actually pay to see the exhibit of some shit like that. Not harmless animals. It's controversial, yes. But so were Robert Maplethorpe photographs years ago. Now you don't hear shit about the guy. So don't bother remembering this chicks name because she'll be a cold booger on a paper plate by this time next year. Now that's art... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 ...just think about how many cats are put to sleep and then thrown in an incinerator everyday at animal shelters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIZENO Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by porque@Oct 28 2004, 04:35 PM ...just think about how many cats are put to sleep and then thrown in an incinerator everyday at animal shelters... Quoted post I keep thinking along these lines and then not posting about it. if she were going to shelters and taking the animals that were being put down already it would dramaticly change the whole thing. to an almost recycling thing, as well as making us question things in the same fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I think those look pretty cool, I was expecting pictures of guts and shit, but it was actually pretty tasteful considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Priest Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 May she get cervical Rott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENO ELPMIS Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Originally posted by ENO ELPMIS+Oct 27 2004, 07:31 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ENO ELPMIS - Oct 27 2004, 07:31 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by porque@Oct 27 2004, 01:16 AM <!--QuoteBegin-seeking@Oct 26 2004, 01:22 PM there is a lot of work that was probably just seen as 'shock' that i think has a lot of merrit. the guy who cut up the animals and encased them in the glass for instance. i saw that exhibit in london Quoted post ...damien hirst...great artist... Quoted post word damien hirst is dope, this thing with the bodies is hella bizarre how does he go about getting them?, if the people pre donate themselves for whenever they die im cool with it,its still nuts but i remember in high school my science class had a real human skeleton in a case i guess it was an indian guy it was like 90 years old too. they have to treat the bones with some kind of acid probably bleach em too, not much different. also theres this museum in italy with all these bodies preserved much like these here but theyre like 150 years old they look like they died yester day its wierd its for anatomy pouroses so theyre not riding horses n shit. Quoted post [/b] correction, i saw that book i was thinking of again and they werent real dead folks they were wax molds my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issac Brock Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 for those of you saying that we should also be protesting meat eating -- eating meat is human instinct, and the way of nature. We are omnivores whose bodies are designed to eat meat. However, killing animals for sculptures is not nessesary in this day and age, is cruel and unusual, and violates animal cruelty laws. I do not understand how she has not been arrested yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Peanut Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by Joker@Oct 27 2004, 07:41 PM I can't think of the photographers name but some guy uses dead people parts and combines them with fruit and other shit and takes black and white photos of it. Quoted post I was thinking of the same guy. too bad I can't remember his name either. A few months ago a girl I know showed me some of his work. I'll have to ask her again. as for the cat killer, her stuff isn't very interesting at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Peanut Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 http://www.bodyworlds.co.uk/en/pages/home.asp I found the homepage for the corpse exibit. You can even download wallpapers for your computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Peanut Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 *PS: don't donate your body to science or you may end up on a mouse pad naked and skinned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escapeartist Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 if my mind serves me right.. wasnt this guy on Ripley's Believe it Or Not a whole back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blahh Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 i think it all depends on where she gets the animals / how she kills them. define "humane." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Peanut Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 http://www.zonezero.com/exposiciones/fotografos/witkin2/ joel peter witikin...the photographer joker brought up. give it a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 i was about to mention witkin. dude is incredible. ive got a couple books of his work. he was a big inspiration for me just by presenting things in such a different manner. using a human head as a fruit bowl, or cutting off someones foot and just shooting that. totally nuts. i'll find some images to post for all those to lazy click links. he did a lot of work on the earlier tool stuff BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 ok, i just pillaged the above link, but if you google dude, you can find a couple moe online galleries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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