CACashRefund Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by John Birch+Oct 1 2005, 07:26 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (John Birch - Oct 1 2005, 07:26 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Actually the insurgents are the good guys. We invaded thier country so they could be liberated. now they are fighting us to liberate themselves from America. From my understanding of freedom, they're the good guys...[/b] This is kinda faulty in that theres alot of foreign fighters out there. Theyre not there to liberate shit, theyre just there to kill americans. So those guys arent freedom fighters. Native iraqis who are committed to kicking the americans out, are by definition freedom fighters/patriots. But because its the us who are fighting them they are classified enemies. <!--QuoteBegin-John Birch@Oct 1 2005, 07:26 PM he tells me, contrary to popular beleif, that down to the last man, every soldier over in Iraq hates the war, doesn't support the mission and thinks getting killed is just a waste. The only problem is, is that soldiers are not allowed to express this sentiment. Only commanding officers can talk to the media and they have to express only propanagnda viewpoints. If a soldier does express his or hers feelings, they can be sanctioned or blackballed etc etc, which nobody wants... I have a friend in iraq who doesnt exactly share these sentiments, he doesnt really care about the war. When he joined the army he knew what he was getting into. He tells me that its his job as a soldier to go where his country tells him, and the reason he fights is not for "duty and honor" but for his fellow soldiers. And he says this is true about alot of the people hes serving with. I guess like everything it depends who you talk to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund+Oct 2 2005, 03:39 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CACashRefund - Oct 2 2005, 03:39 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> This is kinda faulty in that theres alot of foreign fighters out there. Theyre not there to liberate shit, theyre just there to kill americans. So those guys arent freedom fighters. Native iraqis who are committed to kicking the americans out, are by definition freedom fighters/patriots. But because its the us who are fighting them they are classified enemies. Quoted post [/b] Actually this is kinda faulty because these people live in a different world than us. To them it's the Arab world aganst the Jewish/Amirican westerners that are invading and corrupting their world. Our oppinion of right and wrong in their lands holds about as much importance as their oppinions of right and wrong holds in ours. In their minds our military invasion of Iraq is tantimount to the terrorists that attacked the world trade center. the WTC was in NY which we see as a state in the US. Iraq is seen as an Arab nation in the Middle East I doubt they see much of a differance. So yes Arabs fighting in Iraq are doing the same thing as all the people that joined the military imedeately after 911, or Pearl Harbor for that matter. The thing is that it wasn't Iraq that attacked us on 911, they had nothing to do with it, we were LIED TO by BUSH and TRICKED into thinking it was all the same thing but now people know the truth and now Bush practically admits that it was all a lie and has a new set of excuses for us being there. In other words, yes the Arabs in Iraq are the good guys and we were tricked into being the bad guys by our pathetic excuse of a leader. <!--QuoteBegin-CACashRefund@Oct 2 2005, 03:39 AM I have a friend in iraq who doesnt exactly share these sentiments, he doesnt really care about the war. When he joined the army he knew what he was getting into. He tells me that its his job as a soldier to go where his country tells him, and the reason he fights is not for "duty and honor" but for his fellow soldiers. And he says this is true about alot of the people hes serving with. I guess like everything it depends who you talk to. Quoted post Your freind is a minority. And from your description he sounds like a typical gangmember. Like if he hadn't joined the military he'd be fighting for his homies on the streets (or worse, he might have become a cop) . Good for him for finding the military. I hope he doesn't get killed before he grows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by SF1@Oct 1 2005, 08:59 PM Your freind is a minority. And from your description he sounds like a typical gangmember. Like if he hadn't joined the military he'd be fighting for his homies on the streets (or worse, he might have become a cop) . Good for him for finding the military. I hope he doesn't get killed before he grows up. Quoted post SF1 for once you are right, my friend was a gang member. *golf clap* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Oct 2 2005, 03:39 AM But because its the us who are fighting them they are classified enemies. Quoted post Your either with us or with the terrorists, huh, cacashrefund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 depends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 On what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Your personal feelings about the whole matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 :dozey: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Just admit you were wrong. :biglaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by SF1@Oct 1 2005, 09:59 PM The thing is that it wasn't Iraq that attacked us on 911, they had nothing to do with it, we were LIED TO by BUSH and TRICKED into thinking it was all the same thing but now people know the truth Wait, there was some dumb son of a bitch out there that actually believed that Iraq had WMD in the first place? This is what I remember happening: 1) Bush lied about WMD. 2) Everybody knew Bush was lying about WMD and complained about it constantly. 3) Bush attacked Iraq, because absolutely no American citizen has anything more than a weak personal illusion of power to change their government. 4) Everybody bitched because Bush was lying about WMD. 5) Bush didn't find any weapons that could be considered WMD in the entire fucking country. 6) Everybody continued to bitch because Bush lied about the reasons for the war. 7) Media: "Bush lied about WMDs." 8) Bush: "Iraq is a terrorist haven." Of course now Bush isn't lying because Iraq is a terrorist haven now that we're there. Bush wins, American people lose, big time. Bush is the fucking Y2K Bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Bush is what Christians would call the Anti-Christ, but they're too stupid to realize it and they have these douchbag telivangelists telling them what a good Christian Bush is and whatnot. Most people did know he was lieing the whole time. Now everybody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by SF1@Oct 1 2005, 10:27 PM Just admit you were wrong. :biglaugh: Quoted post on what? :king: :haha: :hatred: :clown2: :chicken: :burn: :gaga: :( :hatred: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POIESIS Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Oct 1 2005, 07:39 PM Native iraqis who are committed to kicking the americans out, are by definition freedom fighters/patriots. But because its the us who are fighting them they are classified enemies. Quoted post ding ding ding. exactly. this insight holds for just about every intervention. it's always framed with the US being "free. strong. noble. proud" and engaging in 'counter-terrorism'. regardless of the fact that technically, even by it's own official definition, the US is engaged in a terrorist operation, an illegal invasion that has thrust the country into chaos and civil war, it's always framed the exact same way. as for foreign fighters making up a large portion of the insurgency, thereby nullifying whether or not they are 'freedom fighters' and providing 'justification' for continued occupation, recent developments indicate this position is hardly rock solid. there's also been alot of speculation about false flag ops with little evidence, until the recent brouhaha with british commandoes being detained for dressing like locals and carrying suspect materials. hard to say whether this is definitively happening, but seymour hersh's recent piece seems to indicate some disturbing possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POIESIS Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by SF1@Oct 1 2005, 09:44 PM Most people did know he was lieing the whole time. Quoted post i don't know about 'most' people, but certainly alot knew his justifications were fraudulent..furthermore, i think alot of people knew the results would be predictably disastrous. representative democracy in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 ....... We're still at war in Iraq? WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by POIESIS@Oct 2 2005, 01:27 PM there's also been alot of speculation about false flag ops with little evidence, until the recent brouhaha with british commandoes being detained for dressing like locals and carrying suspect materials. hard to say whether this is definitively happening, but seymour hersh's recent piece seems to indicate some disturbing possibilities. Quoted post The majority of the insurgency is funded by foreign nations (such as Iran). The leader of the most organized and deadly insurgent group is from Jordan. Jordan is actually not a city in Iraq...go figure. Saying the Iraq insurgency is made up of mostly Iraqis is like saying the little shindig they had going on against the USSR a while back was all Afghanis. Its ok though, facts can take a back seat when you have an agenda. Anyways, I stopped reading that article when I realized the writer had no idea what he was talking about/was far to busy to research the subject (he called all SOF units "special forces" and insinuated they were all under the leadership of the CIA.) Care to paraphrase? FYI- The majority of special operation forces dress in the local garb. The SAS guys that were captured were investigating local police that were pretty much controlled by the insurgency (they don't want a repeat of the Marine sniper unit that was purportedly ambushed by the Iraqi police detail they were with). They got caught. The "suspect material" they had on them was advanced communication devices and weapon systems. Spoooooky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 "Yes, you certainly shut me down everytime by calling me stupid" Originally posted by SF1@Oct 1 2005, 11:37 PM And Stereotype proves his stupidity level yet again. :dunce: Quoted post Thanks for proving my point in such a timely fashion. And what is a post mocking SF without all the emoticons? :love2: :hatred: :clown2: :burn: :gaga: :five-o: :yuck: :gaga: :clown2: DOPE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 ok, since everyone knows Bush went to Iraq on false pretenses and that the troops are there basically Murdering people to keep the show on the road. The Question is WHY? Why do you think such a dispicable thing has been done, The whole world knows the deceit and lies of the Bush administration, They know everyone knows, So Why? what's the plan? I have my own Ideas and suspicions, but I want to hear yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 And what about these people who say "we support the troops , but not the war" What the hell is that supposed to mean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Originally posted by Dawood@Oct 2 2005, 10:00 PM And what about these people who say "we support the troops , but not the war" What the hell is that supposed to mean?? Quoted post It means that we aren't gonna turn our backs and wish harm on our soldiers that enlisted (for the most part out of patriotism) to defend our country just because some Douchebag excuse for a president sent them across the planet to war. We can oppose what they are being ordered to do without hating them personally for it. Like the other dude on this page said... alot (if not most) of them don't even want to be there, are against this war, but are stuck over there fighting for the survival of themselves and their fellow soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Yeah, I guess you could look at it like that if you wanted to make an excuse for them. On the other hand , you could say something like " well thats what they get for playing devils advocate" If you wanted to say it like it is. I don't support the American troops, and as long as they're there, killing people, I'll expect that more of them will be killed too. I feel bad for the families of these people, especially the ones who realize what is really going on here, because the American troops arent receiveing the same information we are here. (just like we don't receive the same info as europe does.) Unless we look for it that is... But especially , I feel for the thousands of families in Iraq and Afghanistan and...and....and....and...That have suffered at the hands of these human beings with the hearts of devils. I don't know how much longer this madness will last, but I know that justice is near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 And Dawood shows his true colors. :nope: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 hes been doing that for some time now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 And to think, all this time I just thought he was just another religious nut. I didn't think he was a traitor. But I guess he is entitled to his oppinion. :dozey: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 LOL a traitor, I follow the truth wherever it goes, man, Don't expect me to have an ounce of love for murderers and killers. I'm sure some people have different situations , but, I've seen footage of what YOUR troops are doing over there. I'm not anybody's stooge. Traitor!!! HUH, I don't pledge allegiance to nothing But the truth! Be a cronie if you want, them slogans are just for the bandwagon , Support the troops. Yeah, Ok, Talk to the Iraqis about supporting the troops. You think they got any yellow and pink ribbon stickers on their Cars in Iraq? Theres no war if theres no troops, If the troops were really against what they were doing there, then , they could all collectively quit!, then what? But thats not the case, man, YOU knw and I know theyre paid assasins for the BUsh war!! Don't try to play me! The majority of them are there for the money, for the college fund, to get their life in order because most of them were flunkies. They are paid assasins, man! lets be for real....Traitor! you make me laugh. Don't be a traitor to the truth! SF1 Don't tell me that the war is wrong but the soldiers are right! Thats like saying that stealing is wrong but it's ok to be a theif. So , do you think there is a better payment for death except more death? If you really support your troops then tell your president to send them home and stop making half assed excuses for them murdering innocent people. EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions, EVERYONE. Nobody can escape taking responsibility for their own actions, If they didn't want to be fried they shouldn't have jumped in the frying pan. Don't try to play me like Joe flipperhead, I'm not on that old bangwagon jumping popular opinion type of thing. Now get out of youre safe zone and speak the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Fuck it. Why do I bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo knife Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 It's really not that hard to understand...for a country like America war is necessary. It's necessary for us to stay in power, without our military we can't maintain our world dominance. If you guys can't grasp that i feel sorry for you. Our elections are rigged. The democratic party only exists to make the population feel like we live in a democracy. The republicans are the ones that truely run shit (the CIA, IMF, WTO, the Pentagon....) it's a sort of a shadow branch of the republicans behind the scenes. So what you hear coming outta the mouths of administration officials is pure garbage....then the media does reports on the garbage coming from the administration and doesn't dare steer away from the current talking points set forth by the administration. Arguing that the insurgency is made up of mostly foreign fighters is like arguing Iraq had wmd, or arguing that al-queda and saddam were friendly. You're just regurgitating spin. As far as the insurgency's funding, and where it's coming from...I seriously doubt Jordan is funding it. (although the U.S. is soooo fucking guilty of funding insurgencys around the world even ones that overthrow democraticly elected gov'ts, but most republicans and some democrats are in denial of that)... Saddam may not have been as rich as he once was....but his gov't had some money. Definitely enough money to fund a low-tech insurgency for years to come. They don't need money from Jordan to make some IED's or to buy rpg's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isor357 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Originally posted by Dawood@Oct 2 2005, 10:26 PM Don't try to play me! Don't try to play me like Joe flipperhead, Quoted post I think he serious this time. The fucks wrong with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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