IRAQ IS A DISASTER

[KaBar2]

ARCEL---

Sure, dead Iraqis are casualties. But not our casualties. Dead Iraqi insurgents are their casualties. Dead Iraqi civilians who were unfortunately killed during the battle are "collateral damage." We did not intend to kill them. If they are anybody's responsibility, they are the Iraqi insurgency's responsibility, for waging war against American troops from a civilian-occupied residential area.

 

Not a single one of these people needed to die. Had they simply accepted that their nation was defeated in war fair and square, and surrendered, the transition from dictatorship to a constitutional republic with a democratic form of government would have been a lot smoother.

 

But, the dead-enders chose to conduct an illegal, immoral guerrilla war, without even wearing uniforms, or any sort of identifying marks. BY ALL RIGHTS AND BY INTERNATIONAL LAW, WE COULD SHOOT ANY INSURGENT WE CAPTURE WHO IS NOT WEARING AN IRAQI UNIFORM AND CARRYING IRAQI MILITARY I.D.

 

It is only the inherent decency of the American people, and the humane, law-abiding nature of the U.S. armed forces that prohibits it. Personally, I would have had them shot right on the spot, with their own rifles. They are criminal, fascist terrorists. They do not obey the Geneva Convention. They attack U.S. forces from ambush, using innocent Iraqi civilians as shields. They kidnap and murder innocent civilian NGO workers, Iraqi civilians working towards democracy and civil government, and civilian contract workers who are legally non-combatants. They represent the aspirations of the remains of an extremely cruel, authoritarian, fascistic former government. If we did shoot them, it would be PRECISELY the same thing, legally and morally, as executing the captured Nazi Wolverines in Occupied Germany after World War II.

 

We don't owe them shit. THEY LOST. If they fail to conduct themselves according to the accepted rules of war, and we capture them as armed, fascist, guerrilla bandits, we have the right to shoot them after a military courts martial. In the real world, the capturing troops just take care of business in some alley or in a ravine.

 

Honorable Iraqi soldiers in uniform were taken prisoner as EPW's (enemy prisoners of war), treated fairly, given food and water, and held in EPW camps until they could be released. They walked home.

 

Terrorist, fascist guerrillas that were captured attacking U.S. troops or plotting terrorist attacks were arrested, and imprisoned in country. The worst ones and the terrorists that seemed like the most likely intelligence sources were transported to Guantanamo Bay, and interrogated.

 

I feel sorry for the poor Iraqis stuck in a society filled with these fascist, terrorist turds. All you need to do is look at the election and that tells the story. They want to live in a FREE, DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY. And the sooner their government and Army is up and running, the sooner we can get our troops the fuck out of there.

[villain]

Kabar... that is all well and good but you are neglecting the fact that this war is largely viewed as illegal, we have been viewed as an occupying force, and these "insurgents" are often viewed as "freedom fighters" over there.

Everyone was glad to be rid of Saddam, but since we failed to plan for the peace, maintaining order and stability in Iraq, we have been seen as only concerned with the oil and not the welfare of the Iraqi people. Which for the Bush administration is largely true.

And the elections worked. They worked for the popular majority. The Shiite were more than willing to cooperate for the elections since they are garunteed to attain power. The CIA's worst case scenario for Iraq was civil war, and this is precisely the kind of imbalance in power and strain among ethnic tensions that could set off a civil war. Not to mention Iranian influence in Iraq will be much larger, and there is already talk of making Shariah official law. So then we will have a theocracy of religious fundamentalists with close ties to Iran. This is actually americas worst nightmare we are creating. Saddam may have been an evil, evil man but at least he was secular..... From the very day that Saddam fell, the wahabiists have increased in power and influence. And henceforth fundamentalism, extremism and terrorism.

Eh, but what do I know? Look the Iraqis are happy to be free! Look they want democracy! Yay! All this talk of elections (which is good) but very little acknowledgement of it's real world implications.

The Shiia could implement a constitution (hopefully) that will have protection clauses for the rights of Iraqs minorities.... I dunno.... It took minorities hundreds of years to get on semi equal foothing in the US... and there are still major, major race and gender discrepancies.

[hobo knife]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Feb 4 2005, 03:41 AM

They are criminal, fascist terrorists. They do not obey the Geneva Convention. They attack U.S. forces from ambush, using innocent Iraqi civilians as shields. They kidnap and murder innocent civilian NGO workers, Iraqi civilians working towards democracy and civil government, and civilian contract workers who are legally non-combatants. They represent the aspirations of the remains of an extremely cruel, authoritarian, fascistic former government. If we did shoot them, it would be PRECISELY the same thing, legally and morally, as executing the captured Nazi Wolverines in Occupied Germany after World War II.

 

We don't owe them shit. THEY LOST. If they fail to conduct themselves according to the accepted rules of war, and we capture them as armed, fascist, guerrilla bandits, we have the right to shoot them after a military courts martial. In the real world, the capturing troops just take care of business in some alley or in a ravine.

 

 

Quoted post

 

 

I love the good versus evil angle...we are automatically good and whoever we are at war with is evil....

 

but honestly, do you not realize how many "terrorist, facist, guerilla armies" the US has supported...for one SADDAM HUSSEIN. what about the terrorist guerilla army we trained at the school of americas to overthrow the Sandinistas of nicuragua...which was a democratically elected gov't...i guess the school of americas is where the "good" terrorists train.

[s.urkaleeno]

1) get a dictionary

2) look up the words fascism and corporatism

3) realize how uninformed you sound

when you call a religious fundamentalist a fascist

 

 

" what amazes me more than all else? The impotence of force to organize anything." Napolean

[angelofdeath]

ANIRCHEEEE!

[KaBar2]

Urkaleeno---

 

Saddam Hussein is not a religious fundamentalist. His party, the Baath Party, is strongly supported by American and European fascists, neo-Nazis and racists. Apparently operating under the adage "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," the American and European neo-Nazis see Iraq and Syria as the principle military threats to Israel. Of course, they loathe and despise all Jews, and especially the Zionist Israeli government. The neo-Nazis consider the war in Iraq to be a war designed to help Israel. They could not care less about democracy, because they are not democrats, they are national socialists. Nazis do not elect leaders. The party selects the leaders, the rank-and-file Nazis just get to follow orders. They do not vote.

 

The Islamic fundamentalists have allied themselves with their former bitter enemies, the Baathists. They have a lot in common. They hate Americans and everything for which elections stand. They hate the idea of Iraqis voting and establishing a representative form of government. But more than ANYTHING else, they loathe and despise the Jews.

[Guest]

You and seeking should agree on that (in principle).

 

Dead Iraqi insurgents are their casualties. Dead Iraqi civilians who were unfortunately killed during the battle are "collateral damage."

 

no. wrong. not correct.

 

a human life, no matter where it was born,

is worth just as much as the next human life.

One american life is NOT worth more than 1.00000001 iraqi life.

If we actually have a value, then it's the same for every human.

[Guest]

and kabar...

if you were born in Iraq in 1950,

you would be the roughest, toughest insurgent.

 

just look at the other side,

no matter how back water they might seem to your perspective now..

[POIESIS]

fallujahspy

 

[Theodore Huxtable]

^i'm feelin that photo.

[CACashRefund]

Whats there to feel about it?

[ledzep]

It's cool looking. I've been a fan of Satellite imagery for a while.

 

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...topic=25171&hl=

[POIESIS]

it's totally cool looking...& it gives you some geographical understanding

of what size of city the americans went in and totalled.

 

here's imint of baghdaddy:

 

and mosul:

[ledzep]

Mosul looks pretty nice, with the exception of the occasional burnt looking patch.

[Theodore Huxtable]

yeah i was thinkin the same thing armen. it looks nicer than baghdad or fallujah. wide paved streets and highways, and greenery... compared to baghdad or fallujah with desert and dirt roads and small shacks packed together. at first i thought that mosul flick was in the united states.

[CACashRefund]

PHOTOS THAT WILL NEVER MAKE THE NEWS

http://www.veteranscava.org/photos_that_wi...er_make_the.htm

[CACashRefund]

I didnt feel like making a new thread for this seeing as how it pertains to the topic at hand.

 

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - A female member of a National Guard military police unit was demoted for indecent exposure after a mud-wrestling party at the Army-run Camp Bucca detention center in Iraq, a military spokesman said Sunday.

 

The party occurred Oct. 30, as the 160th Military Police Battalion, an Army Reserve Unit from Tallahassee, Fla., prepared to turn over its duties to the Asheville-based 105th Military Police Battalion, said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, spokesman for detainee operations at Camp Bucca.

 

In the course of the transfer of duties, "some individuals in their exuberance decided to put together a mud-wrestling thing," Johnson said Sunday by telephone. "There were females involved, and some members of the 105th also became involved, one female soldier in particular."

 

Following an inquiry, that soldier was demoted and placed on restriction for participating in the event, specifically for indecent exposure, he said.

 

Four or five other members of the 105th who were spectators received counseling, Johnson said.

 

Johnson did not release the name of the demoted soldier. However, she was identified by the Daily News as Deanna Allen, 19, and the New York newspaper's identification was confirmed by her mother, Ladyna Waldrop of Black Mountain.

 

Allen was demoted from specialist to private first class. She is still a guard at the camp, the newspaper said.

 

The Daily News said it was given 30 of the party photos, and it printed several in Sunday's editions.

 

Waldrop said her daughter is devastated by the events.

 

"It was just a thing where she was coerced by a bunch of people, and with all the excitement, she lost her sanity for a moment and that's all it took," she said.

 

"It seems like they're just singling her out," Waldrop said. "She's the one getting all the publicity and punishment, and that's not right."

 

The 105th took over Camp Bucca on Nov. 1, and photos of the party were found after the 160th had left Iraq, Johnson said, adding that he understood a soldier had turned over the photos to commanders.

 

Results of the inquiry were sent to the commander of the 160th, he said. "It appears from the commander's inquiry that this was primarily put on by troops of the 160th, who are no longer under our command," Johnson said.

 

It wasn't immediately clear Sunday if any members of the 160th had been disciplined.

 

The party was isolated, Johnson said. "Detainees were nowhere in the vicinity," he said. "They had no possible way of seeing what occurred."

 

A scandal involving the separate Abu Ghraib prison erupted last spring when photographs were made public showing soldiers taunting naked Iraqi prisoners.

 

Waldrop said she communicates with her daughter almost every day via Internet instant messaging, and they also see each other by means of a Web camera. "She's very tearful, very upset," Waldrop said.

 

Waldrop said she was proud of her daughter for joining the National Guard. "But I hate that this happened, and so does she," she said. The party "just got way out of hand, and before you know it, pictures were taken, and she didn't have time to react.

 

"My mom and I have both had talks with her that she's supposed to be an example for her country."

Source

 

I guess this must be the "new Army" that Ive been reading about.

[villain]

Recap: chronology of events

 

 

CHRONOLOGY-Main events in Iraq since Saddam Hussein's fall

13 Feb 2005 14:12:19 GMT

Source: Reuters

LONDON, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Here is a short chronology of events in Iraq since Saddam Hussein was overthrown.

 

April 9, 2003 - U.S. forces sweep into Baghdad as Saddam Hussein's 24-year rule crumbles into chaos and looting.

 

May 1 - U.S. President George W. Bush declares major combat in Iraq over.

 

May 12 - Paul Bremer becomes head of U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority ruling Iraq. He swiftly dissolves Iraqi army, security agencies, and defence and information ministries.

 

July 13 - A 25-member U.S.-backed Iraqi Governing Council holds its inaugural meeting in Baghdad.

 

July 22 - U.S. military confirms Saddam's two sons, Uday and Qusay, were killed in a gun battle in Mosul.

 

Aug 19 - Truck bomb at U.N. headquarters in Baghdad kills 22, including U.N. envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello.

 

Aug 29 - Car bomb in Najaf kills more than 80, including Shi'ite faction leader Ayatollah Mohammed Baqer al-Hakim.

 

Dec 13 - U.S. troops capture Saddam near his hometown Tikrit.

 

Jan 15, 2004 - Banknotes printed with Saddam's face cease to be legal tender.

 

March 2 - Bomb and mortar attacks near mosques in Baghdad and Kerbala kill at least 171 people as Shi'ites mark Ashura.

 

March 8 - Iraqi Governing Council signs interim constitution.

 

March 31 - Four U.S. private security guards are killed and bodies mutilated by crowds in Sunni city of Falluja.

 

April 4/5 - U.S. Marines begin big assault on Sunni insurgents in Falluja. Uprising by militiamen loyal to Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr begins in Baghdad and southern Iraq.

 

April 14 - Kidnappers kill Fabrizio Quattrocchi, an Italian. More than 120 foreigners have been kidnapped in Iraq since then. About a third of them have been killed, some beheaded.

 

May 17 - A suicide car bomb kills head of Iraqi Governing Council, a Shi'ite best known as Izzedin Salim.

 

June 1 - Iraqi Governing Council is dissolved to make way for interim government led by Iyad Allawi. Ghazi al-Yawar is appointed president.

 

June 28 - The United States formally returns sovereignty to Allawi's interim government two days earlier than expected. The Coalition Provisional Authority is dissolved. Bremer leaves.

 

July 1 - Iraqi tribunal informs Saddam and 11 senior associates they will be charged with crimes against humanity.

 

Aug 18 - Conference of Iraqi political and religious leaders selects 100-member interim national assembly to oversee the government and prepare for elections in January 2005.

 

Aug 26 - Top Shi'ite cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani strikes deal with Sadr to end uprising by Sadr's militiamen in Najaf.

 

Oct 1 - U.S.-led forces storm rebel stronghold of Samarra.

 

Nov 7 - Interim government declares state of emergency for 60 days.

 

Nov 8 - U.S. troops launch full-scale offensive on Falluja. A week later the U.S. military says it controls all the city after killing 1,600 insurgents and capturing 1,052.

 

Nov 20 - Iraq's main creditors at Paris Club of wealthy nations agree to cancel 80 percent of Baghdad's debt to them.

 

Dec 6 - Main Shi'ite political parties set up United Iraqi Alliance to fight elections.

 

Dec 21 - Suicide bomber kills 21 at U.S. base near Mosul.

 

Jan 30 - Elections to choose a 275-member national assembly, charged with drafting permanent constitution.

 

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L13712618.htm

[hobo knife]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/03/...main/index.html

 

There has been no official figure for the overall number of Iraqis killed since the conflict began, but some non-government estimates have ranged from 10,000 to 30,000.

 

Last October, public health experts published a survey in the British health journal The Lancet that estimated 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died since the U.S.-led invasion.

 

 

 

so which is it 10,000 to 30,000 or 10,000 to 100,000....

 

straight from cnn...fudgin the numbers.

[Theodore Huxtable]

ITALY BEGINS PULLING OUT TROOPS

 

The Associated Press

Updated: 9:41 p.m. ET March 15, 2005

 

ROME - Italy’s prime minister announced plans Tuesday to start drawing down his country’s 3,000-strong contingent in Iraq in September, putting a fresh crack in President Bush’s crumbling coalition. Bulgaria also called for a partial withdrawal, and Ukraine welcomed home its first wave of returning troops.

 

The moves come on top of the withdrawal of more than a dozen countries over the last year and could complicate efforts to keep the peace while Iraq’s new government builds up police and military units capable of taking over from foreign forces.

 

Two years after the U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein, the coalition is unraveling amid mounting casualties and kidnappings that have stoked antiwar sentiment and sapped leaders’ resolve to keep troops in harm’s way.

 

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who confirmed he would seek re-election next year, alluded to the rising public discontent and said he had spoken with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, another strong Washington ally. “We need to construct a precise exit strategy, also because our publics’ opinions expect this communication and we agree to talk about it soon.”

 

‘Gradual reduction’

“Starting with the month of September, we would like to proceed with a gradual reduction of our soldiers,” Berlusconi said on a state TV talk show that lasted into early Wednesday. He added that the withdrawal would be tied to the Iraqis’ ability to secure the country.

 

As of now, the reduction in the Italian contingent will start “even before the year’s end, in agreement with our allies,” Berlusconi added.

 

Italy’s government, a staunch U.S. ally, had vowed to stay despite suffering 21 casualties and enduring fierce public opposition that escalated this month after U.S. soldiers in Baghdad fatally shot an Italian intelligence agent escorting a newly freed hostage.

 

Asked whether the shooting played a role in Berlusconi’s decision, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, “I’m not sure I’d make a connection there ... I haven’t heard any comment to that effect from Italian officials.”

 

The Italian opposition criticized Berlusconi for making the announcement on a talk show instead of before lawmakers, who were debating whether to extend financing for the deployment through June. That extension was approved by the lower house of Parliament. The Senate already voted to extend the mission last month.

 

Declining numbers

Thirty-eight countries have provided troops in Iraq at one point or another. But 14 nations have permanently withdrawn since the March 2003 invasion, and today’s coalition stands at 24. Excluding U.S. forces, there are 22,750 foreign soldiers still in Iraq.

 

The scramble to get out has taken the multinational force from a high of about 300,000 soldiers in the region early in 2003 to 172,750 and falling. About 150,000 U.S. troops shoulder the bulk of the responsibility and suffer the most casualties.

 

A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, said the decisions by some nations to reduce or end their presence in Iraq was not a threat to security. “The coalition is strong,” he said.

 

Venable said the reductions are part of the natural process of turning security over to Iraq’s government. “The plan is to have the Iraqis fill in everywhere,” he said. “That process will continue and indeed accelerate.”

 

U.S. drawing down

The United States also is drawing down its troop levels. After bolstering the U.S. force to about 155,000 during Iraq’s recent elections, the Pentagon is bringing some units home and expects to be down to 138,000 soldiers in a few months.

 

Some 137 Ukrainian servicemen returned home Tuesday, part of a gradual pullout of a 1,650-strong contingent to be completed in October. Ukraine has lost 18 soldiers in Iraq, and its people overwhelmingly oppose the deployment.

 

The Netherlands formally ended its mission March 7, and the bulk of its 1,400 troops return home this month. The U.S. and British governments urged Dutch leaders to extend the mission, but they refused, saying they had met their commitments.

 

Other countries follow suit

Poland, which has command responsibility for a large swath of central Iraq, plans to withdraw several hundred of its 1,700 soldiers in July and hopes to pull out completely by year’s end or early in 2006.

 

Among the nations that withdrew last year were Spain, which pulled out 1,300 soldiers; Tonga, 44; New Zealand, 60; Thailand, 423; the Philippines, 51; Honduras, 370; the Dominican Republic, 302; Singapore, 160; Nicaragua, 115; and Hungary, 300. Norway withdrew 150 troops but left 16 liaison officers.

 

Last month, Portugal withdrew its 127 soldiers, and Moldova pulled out its 12.

 

The Associated Press tally is based on queries to military officials in the various coalition nations. The trend isn’t closely tracked on Web sites maintained by the Defense Department or the U.S. Central Command, which offer dated information.

 

Presence increases security fears

Ferocious insurgent attacks, coalition casualties and a spate of civilian abductions and beheadings have rattled ordinary citizens in many countries.

 

“If we continue to keep our troops in Iraq, Koreans — not only here but also abroad — will be subject to terrorist attacks. It only puts our security in danger,” said Ryu Jae-yoon, a 22-year-old office worker in Seoul.

 

Anti-war sentiment boiled over there last June when a South Korean military contract worker was beheaded by militants after the Seoul government refused a demand to withdraw its forces.

 

In Bulgaria, which has 460 troops in Iraq, the deaths of eight soldiers have heightened public calls to bring them home. On Tuesday, President Georgi Parvanov urged a partial withdrawal, a proposal that parliament must now decide.

 

Some resolve to stay, despite calls to leave

To be sure, America’s top two allies in Iraq — Britain, with about 8,000 soldiers, and South Korea with 3,600 — are standing firm. Australia, Albania and Georgia are boosting their presence, and NATO is expanding its training mission in Baghdad.

 

Yet surveys suggest opposition is running at roughly two-thirds in most coalition countries.

 

In Albania, a staunch U.S. ally that plans to enlarge its 71-member contingent to 121 in April, there are fears the troops could end up paying with their lives.

 

“Our men should be back, alive, as soon as possible,” said Qerime Haxhia, a 54-year-old woman selling vegetables in downtown Tirana. “Can our small group help big America’s army keep Iraq calm? I doubt that.”

 

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Æ°]

I know it's beating a dead horse, as everyone should know this by now.

 

Link here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7331220/

 

 

Bush panel rips U.S. intelligence abilities

'Dead wrong' on Iraq; little known about today's enemies

 

NBC News and news services

Updated: 9:26 a.m. ET March 31, 2005

 

WASHINGTON - In a scathing report released Thursday, President Bush’s commission on weapons of mass destruction found that America’s spy agencies were “dead wrong” in most of their judgments about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction capabilities.

 

The commission was also highly critical of U.S. abilities to assess what existing adversaries have, stating that the United States knows “disturbingly little” about their weapons programs.

 

On Saddam, the commission stated that “we conclude that the intelligence community was dead wrong in almost all of its prewar judgments about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. This was a major intelligence failure.”

 

The main cause, the commission said, was the intelligence community’s “inability to collect good information about Iraq’s WMD programs, serious errors in analyzing what information it could gather and a failure to make clear just how much of its analysis was based on assumptions rather than good evidence.

 

“On a matter of this importance, we simply cannot afford failures of this magnitude,” the report said.

 

But the commission also said that it found no indication that spy agencies distorted the evidence they had concerning Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction, a charge raised against the administration during last year’s presidential campaign.

 

“The analysts who worked Iraqi weapons issues universally agreed that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments,” the report said.

 

But it added: “It is hard to deny the conclusion that intelligence analysts worked in an environment that did not encourage skepticism about the conventional wisdom.”

 

Unanimous advice: Strengthen intel chief

The commission called for dramatic change to prevent future failures. It outlined more than 70 recommendations, saying that President Bush must give John Negroponte, the new director of national intelligence, broader powers for overseeing the nation’s 15 spy agencies.

 

“It won’t be easy to provide this leadership to the intelligence components of the Defense Department or to the CIA,” the commissioners said. “They are some of the government’s most headstrong agencies. Sooner or later, they will try to run around — or over — the DNI. Then, only your determined backing will convince them that we cannot return to the old ways,” the commission told Bush.

 

The panel, which was unanimous in its report and advice, also recommended that Bush demand more of the intelligence community, which has been repeatedly criticized for failures as various investigations have looked back on the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

 

“The intelligence community needs to be pushed,” the report said. “It will not do its best unless it is pressed by policymakers — sometimes to the point of discomfort.”

 

It said analysts must be pushed to explain what they don’t know and that agencies must be pressed to explain why they don’t have better information on key subjects. At the same time, the report said the administration must be more careful about accepting the judgment of intelligence agencies.

 

“No important intelligence assessment should be accepted without sharp questioning that forces the (intelligence) community to explain exactly how it came to that assessment and what alternatives might also be true,” the report said.

 

The commission also called for sweeping changes at the FBI to combine the bureau’s counterterrorism and counterintelligence resources into a new office.

 

Problems with 'Curve Ball'

The proposals were prompted in part by an Iraqi defector code-named “Curve Ball” who may have had a drinking problem and who provided suspect information on Saddam’s purported mobile weapons labs, officials said. The defector and the questions about his veracity have been described in recent government reports.

 

The information the defector provided was included in the much-maligned October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, a high-level collection of intelligence that the White House used to argue for invading Iraq. That document said Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, but no such weapons have been found.

 

The commission's report will single out that document, which said there was “compelling evidence” that Iraq sought uranium for nuclear weapons.

 

The document included dissent in the form of cautionary footnotes from the State Department’s intelligence bureau, the Energy Department and the Air Force.

 

But a senior administration official acknowledged in July 2003 that Bush and then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice did not read footnotes in the 90-page document.

 

By glossing over or omitting dissenting views about Iraq’s weapons programs, the estimate overstated the accuracy of U.S. intelligence, according to an official who described the commission’s report.

 

“There’s a need for more complete reporting,” the official said.

 

The estimate was also the basis for then Secretary of State Colin Powell going to the United Nations Security Council in February 2003 to lobby for military action.

 

Powell this week told the German magazine Stern that he was “furious and angry” that he had been misinformed about Iraq’s capabilities.

 

“It was information from our security services and from some Europeans, including Germans. Some of this information was wrong. I did not know this at the time,” he said. “Hundreds of millions followed it on television. I will always be the one who presented it. I have to live with that.”

 

600-page report

The commission released its final report, spanning more than 600 pages, after more than a year of work that included closed-door sessions with Bush and other top administration officials.

 

Numerous government reports have detailed intelligence failures since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. This commission is the first formed by Bush to look at why U.S. spy agencies mistakenly concluded that Iraq had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, one of the administration’s main justifications for invading in March 2003.

 

The panel also considered a range of intelligence issues beyond Iraq, including congressional oversight, satellite imagery and electronic snooping. Among numerous soft spots, officials familiar with the findings say “human intelligence” — the work of actual operatives on the ground — is lacking.

 

Some of the recommendations

Among other things, the report:

 

Recommends forming a new intelligence center to focus on weapons proliferation.

 

Chastises intelligence agencies for their continued failure to share information, despite numerous reforms aimed at improving coordination.

 

Stresses the need for ongoing training for analysts and operatives and new procedures for considering dissenting intelligence analysis.

 

Calls on intelligence agencies to take concrete steps to ensure information from their sources is valid — a move prompted in part by 'Curve Ball'.

 

Proposes updating the FBI’s computers and creating a new national security division within the Justice Department.

 

Bush formed the commission — led by Republican Laurence Silberman, a retired federal appeals court judge, and Democrat

 

Charles Robb, a former senator from Virginia — as it became clear that U.S. weapons inspectors were not going to find stockpiles of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

 

Top intelligence officials were already taking steps to soften the impact of the criticism. The head of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, which analyzes satellite imagery, told employees in an e-mail that they should “take on the lessons learned, and drive on.”

 

“You may find the report difficult to read and you may not agree with the commission’s analysis, opinions, or recommendations,” retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper wrote. “I understand that it’s much more difficult to be criticized rather than praised in public.”

 

Little known about adversaries

The unclassified version of the report does not go into significant detail on the intelligence community’s abilities in Iran and North Korea because commissioners did not want to tip the U.S. hand to its leading adversaries. Those details are included in the classified version.

 

“The bad news is that we still know disturbingly little about the weapons programs and even less about the intentions of many of our most dangerous adversaries,” the report said.

 

The commission did not name any country, but appeared to be talking about nations such as North Korea and Iran.

 

“Our review has convinced us that the best hope for preventing future failures is dramatic change,” the report said. “We need an intelligence community that is truly integrated, far more imaginative and willing to run risks, open to a new generation of Americans and receptive to new technologies.”

[Æ°]

Coincidence?

 

This report hits the news the exact day that Schiavo dies.

[POIESIS]

well, for one thing, the cia isn't an intelligence agency, it's a covert action

agency. secondly, if anyone has payed any attention to cia, dia, or any other

serving and retired insiders, you'll know that there are two pretty different

accounts of the US intel situation on iraq and in general. so....it's hard to tell

what's windy bullshit and what's not.

[Æ°]

true

 

and the more i read about this the more it's starting

to look like bush shifting the blame onto the intel

community, so i'm becoming more skeptical of the intentions

[villain]

The only "intelligence failure" was in Bushs brain.

[POIESIS]

iraq is one thing, and it's obvious.

9/11 and the propaganda that US intel,

hence the executive branch,

was in the dark is the real game.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

its not like we didn't know this months ago.

[bobthebuilder]

For those of you keeping up with the current events..

 

The rate of attacks has slowed down from 65 or so a day to 40 or so a day... US soldiers are no longer the primary targets.

 

The Iraqi Army is doing most of the raids... US Forces serve as back up.

 

A KURDISH president was selected- This is very very very positive.

 

 

We will remove most of your soldiers by 06-07... there will be around 10k placed near oil refinaries for about another 7 or more years...

 

I believe the situation in Iraq is stabilizing... slowly and painfully but its happening.

 

 

1st Medal of Honor will be awarded.. There should be plenty more.

[bobthebuilder]

In short, he saved the lives of about 100-125 men. Killed around 30(according to those who were there) attackers before a bullet stuck him down. He went into a voulnrable position instead of ordering one of his subordinates to do it.

 

 

 

Bush To Present Medal Of Honor

Associated Press

April 4, 2005

 

 

WASHINGTON - Outnumbered and exposed, Army Sgt. 1st Class Paul Ray Smith stayed at his gun, beating back an advancing Iraqi force until a bullet took his life.

 

Smith is credited with protecting the lives of scores of lightly armed American soldiers who were beyond his position in the battle, on April 4, 2003, near the gates of Baghdad International Airport.

 

On Monday, exactly two years after his death, President Bush is awarding Smith the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest award for valor, and presenting it to his widow, Birgit, daughter and son.

 

It is only the third Medal of Honor given for actions since the Vietnam War, and the first from the Iraq war.

 

Smith, 33, was the senior sergeant in a platoon of engineers during the 3rd Infantry Division's northward sprint toward Baghdad.

 

By the morning of April 4, elements of the division had reached Baghdad and captured Baghdad International Airport, a key objective. Encircled Iraqi militiamen and Special Republican Guard forces inside launched counterattacks.

 

 

 

 

 

Near the eastern edge of the airport, Smith, a veteran of the first Gulf War, had been put in charge of his unit - 2nd Platoon, Bravo Company, 11th Engineer Battalion - while his lieutenant went on a scouting mission.

 

Smith's mission was mundane enough - turn a courtyard into a holding pen for Iraqi prisoners of war. The courtyard, just north of the main road between Baghdad and the airport, was near an Iraqi military compound.

 

Soon after Smith and some of his platoon began work, records show, one trooper spotted dozens of armed Iraqis approaching from beyond the gated walls of the courtyard. Another group of Iraqis occupied a nearby tower.

 

Smith summoned a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, and he and his troops gathered near the courtyard gate to fight the counterattack. An M113 armored personnel carrier joined the fray.

 

The Iraqis, perhaps as many as 100, attacked with rifles, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades, or RPGs. Smith threw a grenade over a wall to drive back some of the Iraqis, then fired a rocket.

 

Incoming RPGs battered the Bradley, which retreated. Then a mortar struck the M113, wounding the three soldiers inside and leaving its heavy machine gun unmanned. After directing another soldier to pull the wounded M113 crewmen to safety, Smith climbed into the machine gun position and began firing at the tower and at the Iraqis trying to rush the compound.

 

His upper torso and head were exposed as he manned the gun.

 

"This wasn't a John Wayne move," said Command Sgt. Maj. Gary J. Coker, the top enlisted man in the 11th Battalion, who was near the battle. "He was very methodical. He knew he had the gate and he wasn't going to leave it and nobody was going to make him leave it."

 

Still, Coker said, "it was absolutely amazing to stand up in that volume of fire."

 

During a stretch of 15 minutes or longer, Smith fired more than 300 rounds as Pvt. Michael Seaman, protected inside the M113, passed him ammunition.

 

Then he was struck by enemy fire and mortally wounded. At almost the same time, 1st Sgt. Timothy Campbell ended the threat from the tower with a grenade, and the surviving Iraqis withdrew. Medics tried to save Smith, and he died about 30 minutes later.

 

He and his comrades are credited with killing between 20 and 50 Iraqi soldiers.

 

Beyond his position were American medics, scouts, a mortar unit and a command post - all lightly armed and vulnerable.

 

"Sgt. 1st Class Smith's actions saved the lives of at least 100 soldiers," according to an Army narrative.

 

Smith was born in El Paso, Texas, and moved to Tampa, Fla., when he was 9. He enlisted in the Army in 1989.

 

He was known for being tough on the men under his command, Coker, who has returned to Iraq with the 3rd Infantry Division, said in a weekend telephone interview.

 

But Smith held himself to the same standard, Coker said, and he took care of his young soldiers when they needed it. Back in the United States, when one private's wife fell seriously ill, Smith drove four hours to bring toys to their children.

 

The other two post-Vietnam Medals of Honor went to Army Master Sgt. Gary I. Gordon and Army Sgt. 1st Class Randall D. Shughart, two Delta Force troopers who died defending the crew of a helicopter that was shot down in Mogadishu, Somalia, in events depicted in the book and movie "Black Hawk Down."

 

More than 3,400 Medals of Honor have been awarded since the decoration was created in 1861, of which more than 600 have been given posthumously.

 

Military officials rigorously review any nomination for the medal in a process that can last 18 months or more. Only about 840 have been given since World War II, when the requirements were made more stringent.

[CACashRefund]

I give mad props to medal of honor recipients, those guys are fucking savages.

Paul Ray Smith

RIP