John Birch

I was at this show in 95 and was trippin my balls off on mescaline... do they still make that shit?

hmmmm, where do I begin? I think you missed what I wrote completely. I'm not trying to posit some dialectic. But thats how you argue for islam, this whole us vs. them mentality, which actually reinforces my quotes. And by the way, the first references I found while researching ibn warraq, and the second from when I typed "islamic +quotes + truth" so I could show you some inconsistencies in the quran fable. And no, I do not have a personal vendetta against islam. And no, none of my HS buddies are fighting in iraq, though one of my n'hood tagging buddies was there...Christ I went to catholic school. And OUR tax dollars are paying for the war... but no not against islam. no I have a vendetta against ignorance, parochialism, sexism, hatred and murder and superiority and anti-intelectualism. Besides American Christianity, Islam is the biggest peddler of all that evil garbage, to use a subjective term. Dawood, you just need to read more, esp using critical theory and irony. I reccomend you start with greek literature, esp early philiosophy and science...Someday you'll understand where I'm coming from hopefully

if that was true, then you got off topic with your first post, lol... but its so interesting how dawood keeps changing the argument when he's confronted with truth: from the truth about islam: http://www.lamblion.com/New08.php An Historical Perspective on Islam Let’s begin our consideration of these questions with some historical background. Muhammad, the man who dictated the Koran and gave birth to Islam, was born in Mecca in the Saudi Arabian peninsula in 570 A.D. His father died before he was born, and his mother died when he was six years old. He was raised first by a grand­father and later by an uncle. Muhammad was illiterate throughout his life. Until the age of 25 he worked in caravans. During his extensive travels, he encountered many Christians and Jews. Through his conversations with them, he picked up bits and pieces of both Judaism and Christianity. His life was radically changed at age 25 when he met a wealthy widow 40 years old who fell in love with him. Their marriage enabled Muhammad to live a life of leisure from that point on. Muhammad’s Call Fifteen years after his marriage, at age 40, Muhammad had a visitation from a spirit. Supposedly, this spirit told him that he was called of God to be a “prophet� and an “apostle.� It is in­teresting to note that there was no tradition in Arabian religions of either prophets or apostles. These terms were obviously used by Muhammad to appeal to Jews and Christians. Muhammad continued to have spirit visitations. They would throw him into a trance, and his utterances during the trances were written down by scribes. These ethereal statements became the Koran, but they were not compiled until after Muhammad’s death. When the compilation was made, the utterances were not organized either chronologically or by subject matter. The result was a jumble of disorganized and often incoherent sayings which are frequently contradictory. For example, the Koran1 gives four conflicting accounts of Muhammad’s call to be a prophet [the word, Sura, means chapter]: 1. Suras 53 and 81 — God, or Allah as he is called in Arabic, personally appeared to Muhammad. 2. Suras 16 and 26 — The call was from the Holy Spirit. 3. Sura 15 — Angels issued the call. 4. Sura 2 — Gabriel was the one who appeared to him. Muhammad’s Revelations At the time Muhammad received his initial visitation, there were over 300 gods being worshiped in Mecca by pilgrims who came there each year to pray at the Ka’aba, a small cubic building that housed a black meteorite and effigies of the various gods. One of those gods was Allah, the moon god. Muhammad decided to proclaim that there was only one god — and he selected Allah as that god. That’s the reason the crescent moon became the symbol of Islam. Muhammad also proclaimed that he was the prophet of Allah. Initially, Muhammad expected both Jews and Christians to receive his new revelation. Thus, early passages in the Koran speak admiringly of “the people of the Book.� These are the passages that Muslims in the West love to quote in their effort to prove that Islam is a tolerant religion. An example is Sura 5:82 which says, “You will find that those who are nearest in love to the believers [Muslims] are those who say, ‘We are Christians.’� Muhammad’s Rejection But when Jews and Christians rejected Muhammad, he turned fiercely against them, and later passages in the Koran speak of them disparagingly: * Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as friends. * Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or else agree to pay a special tax. * Sura 2:65-66 and Sura 5:60 contain references to Jews as “apes and swine to be despised and rejected.� (Think of that! You can be sure that such a statement did not come from the true God of this universe who selected the Jews to be His Chosen People.) Jews and Christians were not the only ones who rejected Muhammad’s new revelations. The people of his own tribe, the Quraysh, also rejected him. In response, Muhammad succumbed to the temptation to appease his tribe by announcing that it would be okay for them to worship the three daughters of Allah — named Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Ma­nat. This declaration led to the infamous “Satanic verses� of the Koran which were later deleted when Muhammad reverted back to monotheism. Muslims have tried ever since to cover-up this diversion from the faith. You may remember that in 1989 an Indian writer by the name of Salman Rushdie brought up this taboo topic when he wrote a novel entitled, The Satanic Verses. The Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran condemned him and called for his assassination. A three million dollar bounty was placed on his head, and he has been in hiding ever since. Muhammad’s Trek The opposition to Muhammad in his home town of Mecca continued to grow until he was forced to flee 250 miles to Medina where his message was received. The Islamic calendar dates from this year when Muhammad fled to Medina and found a receptive audience, resulting in the formal establishment of Islam as a religion. It was the year 622 A.D., and that date represents year one of the Muslim calendar, which is a lunar calendar. The year 2001 is the year 1422 in the Muslim dating system. After the death of his wife, Muhammad married at least 11 other women (some sources place the total as high as 16). He also took several concubines. He married one girl who was only six years old and had sexual relations with her when she was 9.2 According to the Koran, only the prophet could have unlimited wives. All other Muslim men are limited to four (Sura 4:3). Muhammad died on June 8, 632 A.D. in Medina at age 63. He left no successor, and Islam soon broke into warring sects such as the Shiites and the Sunnis. The Spread of Islam All of those who survived Muhammad took up the sword, as directed by the Koran, and devoted themselves to advancing Islam through military might. The resulting spread of the religion was phenomenal. Within a century, Islamic forces had conquered Saudi Arabia, the entire Middle East, Central Asia, and large parts of India. The armies raged through Egypt and across North Africa, destroying corrupt Byzantine Christianity in their path. ...my point is, is that I'm not trying to turn this into a political argument, but if someone's theory about the nature of being is based on the ramblings of a murderous military leader, then well, you get off topic very quickly. Its like trying to have a discussion about the solar sytem while believing the earth is flat...

I think kabar is one of those right-wing wierdos who talks tough about war and militarism, but never been or ever knew anyone who was in the service. the closest he ever got to combat was when he walked by the army recruiting center next to the local quiznos, which he drove 2 blocks to in his SUV...

ahhhhh, its aggravating how this thread goes off topic and becomes a forum for islamic apologists, which really has NOTHING to do with the nature of being etc. Anyway I found this great statement by ibn Warraq on the world trade center bombings. I just pasted a part of it where he highlights quotes from the Koran that show it is a religion of hate, ignorance and murder...you can find the whole statement here: http://www.secularislam.org/articles/wtc.htm Jihad is “a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of the Prophet Muhammad [the Prophet]. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur’an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and repelling evil from Muslims�[1]. The world is divided into two spheres, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb. The latter, the Land of Warfare, is a country belonging to infidels which has not been subdued by Islam. The Dar al-Harb becomes the Dar-al Islam, the Land of Islam, upon the promulgation of the edicts of Islam. Thus the totalitarian nature of Islam is nowhere more apparent than in the concept of Jihad, the Holy War, whose ultimate aim is to conquer the entire world and submit it to the one true faith, to the law of Allah. To Islam alone has been granted the truth: there is no possibility of salvation outside it. Muslims must fight and kill in the name of Allah. We read (IX. 5-6):“Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them�; IV.76: “Those who believe fight in the cause of God�; VIII.39-42: “Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.� Those who die fighting for the only true religion, Islam, will be amply rewarded in the life to come: IV.74: “Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.� What should we make with these further unfortunate verses from the Qur’an: *Torment to Non-believers->IV.56 *Only Islam Acceptable-> III.85 * No friends from outsiders->III.118 *No friends with Jews, christians->V. 51 * No friends with non believers->IV.144, III.28 * No friends with parents/siblings if not believers->IX.23 * Fight non-believers->IX.123 * Kill non-believers->IV.89 *Anti Jewish verses->V.82 * God a "plotter"->VIII.30 *Killing Idolators->IX.5 * Idolators are unclean just because they are idolator->IX.28 * Forcing non-believers to pay tax->IX.29 * The Torment of Hell->XLIV.43-58 * All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell->II.62, V.69 * Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers->VIII.12 * Smite the neck of unbelievers->XLVII.4 * Severe Punishment for atheists->X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86 * Severe Punishment for non-believers->XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6 *Punishing non-believers of Hereafter->XVII.10 * Punishing for rejecting faith->III.91 * Non believers go to hell->IV.140 ; VII.36 * Partial Believers go to hell too->IV.150-1 * Sadistic punishments->LVI.42-43 * Punishment for apostates->XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137. * Threat of punishement for not going to war->IX.38-39, XLVIII.16 *God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more->III178 *Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth->VI.25 ; VI.110 * Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran->XVII.45-46 * It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that->XVII.97 * God could guide, if he chose to, but did not->VI.35 * Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->XIV.4 * Willfully misguiding some->XVI.93 * God causes human to err->IV.143 ; VII.178 * God deceiving humans->IV.142 It is surely time for us who live in the West and enjoy freedom of expression to examine unflinchingly and unapologetically the tenets of these fanatics, including the Qur’an which divinely sanctions violence. We should unapologetically examine the life of the Prophet, who was not above political assassinations, and who was responsible for the massacre of the Jews. “Ah, but you are confusing Islam with Islamic fundamentalism. The Real Islam has nothing to do with violence,� apologists of Islam argue. There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism: at most there is a difference of degree but not of kind. All the tenets of Islamic fundamentalism are derived from the Qur’an, the Sunna, and the Hadith – Islamic fundamentalism is a totalitarian construct derived by Muslim jurists from the fundamental and defining texts of Islam. The fundamentalists, with greater logic and coherence than so-called moderate or liberal Muslims, have made Islam the basis of a radical utopian ideology that aims to replace capitalism and democracy as the reigning world system. Islamism accounts for the anti-American hatred to be found in places far from the Arab-Israeli conflict, like Nigeria and Afghanistan, demonstrating that the Middle East conflict cannot legitimately be used to explain this phenomenon called Islamism. A Palestinian involved in the WTC bombings would be seen as a martyr to the Palestinian cause, but even more as a martyr to Islam. “Ah, but Islamic fundamentalism is like any other kind of fundamentalism, one must not demonise it. It is the result of political, social grievances. It must be explained in terms of economics and not religion,� continue the apologists of Islam. There are enormous differences between Islamic fundamentalism and any other kind of modern fundamentalism. It is true that Hindu, Jewish, and Christian fundamentalists have been responsible for acts of violence, but these have been confined to particular countries and regions. Islamic fundamentalism has global aspirations: the submission of the entire world to the all-embracing Shari’a, Islamic Law, a fascist system of dictates designed to control every single act of all individuals. Nor do Hindus or Jews seek to convert the world to their religion. Christians do indulge in proselytism but no longer use acts of violence or international terrorism to achieve their aims. Only Islam treats non-believers as inferior beings who are expendable in the drive to world hegemony. Islam justifies any means to achieve the end of establishing an Islamic world. Islamic fundamentalists recruit among Muslim populations, they appeal to Islamic religious symbols, and they motivate their recruits with Islamic doctrine derived from the Qur’an. Economic poverty alone cannot explain the phenomenon of Islamism. Poverty in Brazil or Mexico has not resulted in Christian fundamentalist acts of international terror. Islamists are against what they see as western materialism itself. Their choice is clear: Islam or jahiliyya. The latter term is redefined to mean modern-style jahiliyya of modern, democratic, industrialised societies of Europe and America, where man is under the dominion of man rather than Allah. They totally reject the values of the West, which they feel are poisoning Islamic culture. So, it is not just a question of economics, but of an entirely different worldview, which they wish to impose on the whole world. Sayyid Qutb, the very influential Egyptian Muslim thinker, said that “dominion should be reverted to Allah alone, namely to Islam, that holistic system He conferred upon men. An all-out offensive, a jihad, should be waged against modernity so that this moral rearmament could take place. The ultimate objective is to re-establish the Kingdom of Allah upon earth...�[2]

when my grandfather was a kid, he would take the kittens his cat just gave birth to, put them in a burlap sack, and toss them into the river, and then watch as they shriek and then sink... this lady was just geting rid of her kittens... yo

also check out the works of this great guy, ibn warriq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq

its called food... the enegetic power source is called a heart. Eventually it wears out and then you die. but the biger question you bring up, do you think trees have a soul? What about cats and dogs and other intelligent mammals? Cuz then either every living craeture from a single-celled ameoba up to humans and elephants have a soul or nothing does. Theres no medium line etc etc. so are souls only things that can only be believed in or not? show me some proof and I'll show you a unicorn being ridden by a lephracaun...

I was thinking of going as this guy...young version... but maybe I'll steal some of your ideas... if I can get 3 more guys, then the clockwork orange guys...

I watched the first one last night... I think Steven Colbert is wicked funny. He has a great deadpan style... but... this show's premise is basically taking a 2 minute skit thats shown once a week or so and turning it into a nightly half-hour show. From watching the premier, I noticed it ran outta steam after about 5 minutes. Colbert had no material. And he had a hard time staying in character (Bill O'Reilly parody). and his guest star, whom I can't remember, he had a tedious, unfunny exchange with... Anyway, I give the show only a few weeks, but its better than anything shown on Comedy Channel's 11:30 slot (ala Colin Quinn etc)... I think Colbert is best in short skits anyway... what do other people who've seen it think????

I like j.crew. They have nice sweaters. I just bought a hoody from them...oh well

this thread is just going around in circles. Everything is pure conjecture and guesswork. Even observable phenomona. The concept of God is just that too, conjecture. One day, after the monkee touched that monolith thing, he thought "what created us?" I see we haven't gotten much farther in a few hundred thousands years figuring out this early question.. but the monkees second great thought "damn that bitch is hairy" has been solved by muslims, since they make their bitches shave their mustaches and bushes, wiz-ord!!! maybe islam does have some insight/value...

By DEB RIECHMANN Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON — It was billed as a conversation with U.S. troops, but the questions President Bush asked on a teleconference call Thursday were choreographed to match his goals for the war in Iraq and Saturday's vote on a new Iraqi constitution. "This is an important time," Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, said, coaching the soldiers before Bush arrived. "The president is looking forward to having just a conversation with you." Barber said the president was interested in three topics: the overall security situation in Iraq, security preparations for the weekend vote and efforts to train Iraqi troops. As she spoke in Washington, a live shot of 10 soldiers from the Army's 42nd Infantry Division and one Iraqi soldier was beamed into the Eisenhower Executive Office Building from Tikrit - the birthplace of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. "I'm going to ask somebody to grab those two water bottles against the wall and move them out of the camera shot for me," Barber said. A brief rehearsal ensued. "OK, so let's just walk through this," Barber said. "Captain Kennedy, you answer the first question and you hand the mike to whom?" "Captain Smith," Kennedy said. "Captain. Smith? You take the mike and you hand it to whom?" she asked. "Captain Kennedy," the soldier replied. advertising And so it went. "If the question comes up about partnering - how often do we train with the Iraqi military - who does he go to?" Barber asked. "That's going to go to Captain Pratt," one of the soldiers said. "And then if we're going to talk a little bit about the folks in Tikrit - the hometown - and how they're handling the political process, who are we going to give that to?" she asked. Before he took questions, Bush thanked the soldiers for serving and reassured them that the U.S. would not pull out of Iraq until the mission was complete. "So long as I'm the president, we're never going to back down, we're never going to give in, we'll never accept anything less than total victory," Bush said. The president told them twice that the American people were behind them. "You've got tremendous support here at home," Bush said. Less than 40 percent in an AP-Ipsos poll taken in October said they approved of the way Bush was handling Iraq. Just over half of the public now say the Iraq war was a mistake. White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Thursday's event was coordinated with the Defense Department but that the troops were expressing their own thoughts. With satellite feeds, coordination often is needed to overcome technological challenges, such as delays, he said. "I think all they were doing was talking to the troops and letting them know what to expect," he said, adding that the president wanted to talk with troops on the ground who have firsthand knowledge about the situation. The soldiers all gave Bush an upbeat view of the situation. The president also got praise from the Iraqi soldier who was part of the chat. "Thank you very much for everything," he gushed. "I like you." On preparations for the vote, 1st Lt. Gregg Murphy of Tennessee said: "Sir, we are prepared to do whatever it takes to make this thing a success. ... Back in January, when we were preparing for that election, we had to lead the way. We set up the coordination, we made the plan. We're really happy to see, during the preparation for this one, sir, they're doing everything." On the training of Iraqi security forces, Master Sgt. Corine Lombardo from Scotia, N.Y., said to Bush: "I can tell you over the past 10 months, we've seen a tremendous increase in the capabilities and the confidences of our Iraqi security force partners. ... Over the next month, we anticipate seeing at least one-third of those Iraqi forces conducting independent operations." Lombardo told the president that she was in New York City on Nov. 11, 2001, when Bush attended an event recognizing soldiers for their recovery and rescue efforts at Ground Zero. She said the troops began the fight against terrorism in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and were proud to continue it in Iraq. "I thought you looked familiar," Bush said, and then joked: "I probably look familiar to you, too." Paul Rieckhoff, director of the New York-based Operation Truth, an advocacy group for U.S. veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, denounced the event as a "carefully scripted publicity stunt." Five of the 10 U.S. troops involved were officers, he said. "If he wants the real opinions of the troops, he can't do it in a nationally televised teleconference," Rieckhoff said. "He needs to be talking to the boots on the ground and that's not a bunch of captains." _________________________ my buddy who's over there tells me that the media only interviews pre-screened and coached officers. Regular soldiers aren't allowed to talk to the media. If you say anything bad, you can get blacklisted etc etc. btw, I thought the GAO just ruled the administration can't use public airtime and money for propaganda efforts?

the old testament was written by exiled jewish scholars as a way to write down their oral traditions and give definition and meaning to their culture that was in serious position to be lost. Even back then it was never really meant to be taken literally...allegory in other words... biblical literalism arose during the dark ages in Europe as a way to justify serfom and the Divine "Rights" of the Catholic Church and local lords and kings...

and I just went to the Discovery Institute's website and skimmed some shit about ID. the funny thing is that they keep quoting and mentioning Darwin, Darwin, Darwin, like he was some religious kook like John Smith or L. Ron hubbard... The truth of the matter is, is that evolution as a theory was first proposed thousands of yaers ago by the Greeks. darwin and some other guy first proposed a modern theory of HOW things evolve, not whether they do or not. And most importantly, our current understanding of evolution was actually first identified by a Catholic monk: Mendl, who observed genetics in plants...

I've been following this issue for a few months, and I notice in article after article, ID folks keep saying it should be taught because of holes and discrenpencies in evolutionary theory. What exactly are those holes, discrepencies etc? ID proponents never discuss that...

and I agree about "City of God", but I have had a hard time convincing others to see it due to the subtitles...

I never said they were muslims...but nonetheless the earthquake affected people of all religions up there: hindi, muslim, sihk etc etc. I just thought it was a cool sandcastle though. I'm going to build a replica at Revere Beach next summer

this is the last bit of evidence the John Birch Society will submit on this matter: and I think when peoples say white, I think they mean more western civilization...islamist don't hate white people, they hate western people, people from the western civilization, ie America, Europe etc etc

anyone ever see that gripping drama "Bomb the System"? that movie sums up my whole graf career, past and present... just kiddin, but I mostly catch scratchies in bars bathrooms, maybe do some drunk bombin while coming home from the local bar (which even the local toys don't even flick and post, lol), catch more shit while on road trips, travelling etc...its great seeing some of my old shit of threads sometimes though...

my photo from rotten.com looked fake, but those others ones looked real enough

I just discovered this shit... mero and you guys are comedic geniuses, lol!!! bump!

I was hopng to see pictures. btw, one of my buddies use to have a fetus in a jar on his mantle. We never thought to eat it, since it was in formaldehyde...

oy vey, I'm never gonna be able to buy a laptop...