lord_casek Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 thanks for the links. i was actually going to ask you for some more of your sources. ill take a look at this stuff and get back to you. for now, its back to work.... no problem, and same here. i've got crap that i don't want to do looming over my shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 "Formal education" isn't a load of shit if you actually invest yourself in it, rather than just show up and go through the motions. There's a lot to be learned at college that just cannot be learned in any other setting. Just because the amount of idiots in college is on the rise does not mean that higher education is useless. A degree is not an instant win in any debate, but it definitely grants more credibility, especially a PhD. At the very least, college humbles a person, if they are dedicated to their education. At the worst, it becomes an extension of high school and an excuse to party for four years on mommy and daddy's money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 "Formal education" isn't a load of shit if you actually invest yourself in it, rather than just show up and go through the motions. There's a lot to be learned at college that just cannot be learned in any other setting. Just because the amount of idiots in college is on the rise does not mean that higher education is useless. A degree is not an instant win in any debate, but it definitely grants more credibility, especially a PhD. At the very least, college humbles a person, if they are dedicated to their education. At the worst, it becomes an extension of high school and an excuse to party for four years on mommy and daddy's money. well, i was speaking of the ward churchills of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 It seems/seemed like you are/were talking about higher education in general, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 "Formal education" isn't a load of shit if you actually invest yourself in it, rather than just show up and go through the motions. There's a lot to be learned at college that just cannot be learned in any other setting. Just because the amount of idiots in college is on the rise does not mean that higher education is useless. A degree is not an instant win in any debate, but it definitely grants more credibility, especially a PhD. At the very least, college humbles a person, if they are dedicated to their education. At the worst, it becomes an extension of high school and an excuse to party for four years on mommy and daddy's money. what i was saying is that i dont think a formal education should ever be used as a yard stick to measure the validity of someones knowledge and opinions. ill probably go to school at some point for educational and professional purposes but in the meantime im not going to sell myself short just because i chose the alternative avenue of self-education Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 hahahaha Australians were sent here with nothing and built the country up. Id like to see some americans do the same. (without using slave labour) You'd like to see America do the same? Last time I checked America is the world biggest super power not Australia. You think that America became that way because of slaves? hahahha. Slavery was wrong and is an embarrassment in American history. But all slaves did was pick cotton, tobacco, etc. They didn't bring slaves here to be rocket scientists. They brought them here because they where to damn lazy to do manual labor themselves. And something else that pisses me off and people over look is that slavery was in the south.. Only the south. I'm sick of living in up here in the Land of Lincoln and have blacks bitch to me (they have, my own mom was knocked over by some stupid black bitch and yelling something about slavery at Ohare. Who that fuck knows for what reason, if that's not racism I don't know what is.) about slavery when my ancestors are from Eastern Europe and didn't have anything to do with it. As far as I'm concerned no one up here in the North should have to listen to that. Thats why I hate Jesse Jackson. I belive Bill Cosby would the best black leader out there. I do however think our police force is fucked up in this country, and they discriminate people all the time and get away with it.. But thats a whole other topic. As for Hispanics in this country. Learn to speak English. No that does not mean you should forget Spanish and the Hispanic culture. I don't mean that you all should speak in English to one another if your more comfortable with Spanish. What I do mean is that English is the countrys national language. Respect that. That means that you should adjust to this country, not that this country should adjust to you. Signs should ONLY be in English. All the other immigrants who came here from all over the world adjust to it, so should you all. This country is in very deep shit right now thanks to the Clintons administration globalization policies and every single thing that the bush administration has done...There's too many to even list. If Ron Paul doesn't make the ballot I'm not voting and this great country can say good bye to it's culture, it's rights, and its standard of living. The only jobs that are going to be left here are service jobs that pay minimum wage or close to it... God save the country....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 well said. one thing yumone forgot about is that when our forefathers came here, there were no slaves, and they did build this country up from "nothing". i love the "nothing", though. too bad that the "nothing" (nature) is disappearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 yeah i was just having a little muck aorund with casek it wasn't meant to be a real historical debate. I admit the English did a really good job of building up America before the Americans got slaves and immigrants to do the rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I admit the English did a really good job of building up America before the Americans got slaves and immigrants to do the rest! Thats not at all what I was getting at. I was talking about all of the hard working people that came here and made America the super power that it is today. Not just the English. And again, I still don't see the major impact of the slaves other than making some southerners wealthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 it probably lies in the fact that for a long time america made a large proportion of it's gdp on exporting cotton and textiles etc, and also the fact that having a massive slave labour force for agricultural work freed up the rest of the population to work in other industries (kind of like what mexicans do for you today) "I was talking about all of the hard working people that came here and made America the super power that it is today."- yeha i already mentioned the immigrants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 it probably lies in the fact that for a long time america made a large proportion of it's gdp on exporting cotton and textiles etc, and also the fact that having a massive slave labour force for agricultural work freed up the rest of the population to work in other industries (kind of like what mexicans do for you today) "I was talking about all of the hard working people that came here and made America the super power that it is today."- yeha i already mentioned the immigrants OK, again. America didn't become a superpower because of slave labor in the 18th and 19th centuries. Did it help it? Yes, but wasn't nearly as big of a contributing factor like your trying to make it sound. For the most part european immigrants from the 19th and 20th century built this country. Thats just the way it is. This is in no way racist, its just the way it was. The illegal immigrants working here today are taken advantage of, and they themselves are a toll on the country as they do not pay taxes. They take advantage of the school and health care system draining more American money. Am I pissed off at them? No. It's not there falt that its impossible to become a citizen here and get paid at least minimum wage. All they want are better lives. I as an American am having my standard of living lowered at the same time by this, so I don't see what your getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 yeah i was just having a little muck aorund with casek it wasn't meant to be a real historical debate. I admit the English did a really good job of building up America before the Americans got slaves and immigrants to do the rest! you guys aren't as funny as the english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 ...Ron Paul for prezz. I'm off to change the oil in my old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 you guys aren't as funny as the english. i wouldn't talk after watching the American attempt at copying 'The Office', dismal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 i wouldn't talk after watching the American attempt at copying 'The Office', dismal... oh, no way i'm saying americans are any more funny. the british beat both of us out with monty python and benny hill alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 what i was saying is that i dont think a formal education should ever be used as a yard stick to measure the validity of someones knowledge and opinions. ill probably go to school at some point for educational and professional purposes but in the meantime im not going to sell myself short just because i chose the alternative avenue of self-education Well, if a PhD in that one has when relevant to the discussion, I think there is a greater amount of credibility towards one who has relentlessly studied the field. Unless they same something completely retarded, in which case they are either lying or one of those idiots that somehow make it through graduate school while being a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 This country is in very deep shit right now thanks to the Clintons administration globalization policies and every single thing that the bush administration has done...There's too many to even list. If Ron Paul doesn't make the ballot I'm not voting and this great country can say good bye to it's culture, it's rights, and its standard of living. The only jobs that are going to be left here are service jobs that pay minimum wage or close to it... God save the country....... Globalization has harmed the world in ways, but it also has created goodness, such as creating a world-wide human rights standard, trying to eliminate human rights violations. Globalization CAN also create a world community that helps, such as when many of the great Western and Eastern powers pooled money together to help with the tsunami tragedy in Indonesia . It's also created the horrible spreading of corporations, placing trash like McDonalds' and Kentucky Fried Chickens all over the world that destroy the natural beauty of another culture, and created sweatshops in China or Mexico, for instance the Mattell or Wal-Mart or Nike factories. What Clinton did, exactly, I don't know. Also, you should vote. Just cause your guy didn't make the ballot, if you believe in this country and want it to continue as a country, you need to exercise your right to vote. There is nothing more stupid than turning down the chance to vote for even if it's to vote for the better of two evils. Not exercising your right to vote is very dumb. That's why people like George Bush won, when 92 million people did not vote, nearly 50% of those eligible (US Census). Gore lost by barely a few thousand votes and 49 percent and losing by just one state--although it was actually a coup and Bush still would have won. They were all sitting around either too lazy, too selfish to vote because they didn't like either of the candidates, or too depressed about the how your perfect brand of politics did not make it to the finals. Well get up, swallow your pride, and/or put on a happy face and f'n vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 why vote for the lesser of two evils if they are both evil? if given a choice between hitler and stalin, why even vote, and so it is with american politics. most presidential elections are between candidates with a dimes worth of difference between the two. hitler might of been a nazi socialist and stalin might of been a bolshevik socialist but in the end they are both in favor of the empire, killing political dissidents and absolute rule by force. and so it is with american presidents. both parties mainstream are in favor of the empire, imperialism at home and abroad and and promises of bigger government. what is the difference between hillary clinton and rudy guiliani? really, what are they? both favor large government, both are pro choice, both are for gun control, both are for amnesty for illegal aliens, both are for more of the same in iraq, both are for huge amounts of american capital to be sent overseas for foreign aid, both are pro 'gay' rights, both have sex life scandals in one way or the other. really, what is the point of voting when you will get the same thing anyway? oh, hillary clinton might try to push for socialist healthcare 4 months before rudy pushes for some sort of corporate fascist healthcare. wooopdedooo. what im concerned about is what candidates are going to be reversing unconstitutional laws. what candidates are in favor of shutting down unconstitutional government largesse. what candidates are against the empire. what candidates dont argue over how much they are gonna not raise taxes to pay for thier increased output programs. im concerned at which candidates want to dismantle the totalitarian bureaucracies on the potomac river that are stripping american citizens of thier rights. im concerned which candidates want to reverse the padilla precedent. im concerned about which candidates want to allow citizens to once again have liberty. to be free. only one candidate is worth voting for, Ron Paul. i urge everyone to stay home if he isnt nominated. stay home or write him in. dont take part in the political plundering get togethers, known as elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 whats wrong with gay rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 there is no such thing as gay rights any more than there is white rights, black rights, indian rights, straight rights, handicapped rights, etc. group rights are non existent. only individual rights exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 shocking? or is it? http://chaosgone-politics.blogspot.com/2007/08/cnn-hosts-shocked-when-republican-guest.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 If you advocate not voting then you advocate destroying the foundation that this country was based upon. If your man or woman does not get nominated and you decide to give up and go home then you should not even be living in this country. In case you forgot, there are also congressional and ballot question elections that happen on the same day. Of course, if everyone who voted for Ron Paul wound up not voting in the general election, then about 1-3% of the country would not vote, which is nothing compared to the actual percentage of the country that does not vote. Promoting non-participation in a democratic society is absurd and the coward's way out. The difference between Clinton and Guiliani, both of whom I would not want to see in office, is that if one is elected then legislation by Democrat legislators will have a better chance of passing, and if the other is elected, legislation by Republican legislators will have a better chance of passing. You have whitewashed this fact. If you don't vote, then as far as I am concerned you have no right to even debate about politics and are a useless member of society. I'm not 100% thrilled about ANY of the candidates, but I will cast my ballot come election day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 fermentor: http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan136.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 there is no such thing as gay rights any more than there is white rights, black rights, indian rights, straight rights, handicapped rights, etc. group rights are non existent. only individual rights exist. the only gay rights issue as far as i see it is gay couples having EQUAL rights to straight couples. so it's not an issue of having more or certain specific rights just equal rights. how do you feel aobut that AOD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 fermentor: http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan136.html That argument was thoroughly unconvincing. There is nothing wrong with voting for a minor candidate, or even voting in a write-in. This is a democracy and you need to participate in it if you want to have a say in it. Crying about it and running away from the problem is not the answer. If you go out there and write-in Ron Paul's name in the presidential election, then I don't have a problem with you debating politics. But if you don't vote because your man doesn't get the nomination, then you lose much credibility in any debate. Giving up makes one a loser. The other fact is, while the media has a lot to do with promoting a candidate, it does not have the final say. The people have the final say. IF you don't like any of the candidates, go to one of their campaign stops and raise your issues with them. Gather your friends, group together and raise the issues you have, demonstrate even. But fucking vote or get off the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 " The difference between Clinton and Guiliani, both of whom I would not want to see in office, is that if one is elected then legislation by Democrat legislators will have a better chance of passing, and if the other is elected, legislation by Republican legislators will have a better chance of passing. You have whitewashed this fact." woopdedoo. both parties in favor of the empire. no change. i guess you missed the whole argument. yes, im gonna vote this election. but in a free society you have the option of voting or not. there is no use in voting if the choice is between hillary and rudy. they are the same people. voting is not the end all of everything. it is merely a stage. you have various stages as a citizen. you have the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box. in that order. i think it is probably to late to work within the system, yet to soon to shoot the bastards. how can the ballot box save you if both candidates are evil? if everyone refused to vote, what would happen? it would smash the very foundations of this corrupt society we live in today. if you want to vote, fine. if you dont, why should these people be rediculed? if the choices of candidates are all evil, then a principled refusal to vote is an option. that way you can say you had no part in the picking of the next dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 "the only gay rights issue as far as i see it is gay couples having EQUAL rights to straight couples. so it's not an issue of having more or certain specific rights just equal rights. how do you feel aobut that AOD?" i think that is a fine position. however, most people who advocate for certain special 'rights' usually come out for various special priviledges that are in fact not equal with anyone else. i think the ideal scenario would be to not have the govt involved in marriage to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I didn't miss the point, maybe you did. There are differences between those two candidates, and there are similarities. I shouldn't have to explain how our democracy works to you, but in a nutshell: everyone cannot be happy with the results. It is a flaw, but there is no getting around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 republic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanfullofretards Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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