WORDISM45 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 do you believe that being a veteran from a war makes you a more qualified political candidate? (not talking about flight surgeon jsut serving in general) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 do you believe that being a veteran from a war makes you a more qualified political candidate? (not talking about flight surgeon jsut serving in general) i believe it puts you in the mindset of knowing what kind of hell war is, and makes you (hopefully) much more careful about getting your country into bullshit wars... there is a heavy price we pay for war...a very heavy price. mccaine, i believe, doesn't know this...he would like us to be in iraq for 100 years (as quoted from a recent town hall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 so you are admitting that beign a veteran in fact doesn't teach you this , since Mccaine is not only a veteran but an ex-pow of the veit cong. I htink you;re right about it having that effect on a lot of people (not necessarily politicians as history shows, Kennedy, Bush, Eisenhower etc). Read some Kurt Vonnegut books if you want soem great perspective on war from a veteran of WW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 so you are admitting that beign a veteran in fact doesn't teach you this , since Mccaine is not only a veteran but an ex-pow of the veit cong. I htink you;re right about it having that effect on a lot of people (not necessarily politicians as history shows, Kennedy, Bush, Eisenhower etc). Read some Kurt Vonnegut books if you want soem great perspective on war from a veteran of WW2 well, i admit it to a point. i think dr. paul knows well the price of war. i think mccaine is a douche who sold out his country and forgot the price we pay in exchange for money and power via bush and company. vonnegut is excellent, but i haven't read much. slaughterhouse 5 was one... did you know he's a "truther"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 did you know he's dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 did you know he's dead? *was yeah, i heard an interview from a year or so ago. i had forgotten that he passed away, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 new video from NH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 big loss for the world, so it goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 from germany to michigan to cast ballot for ron paul http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS54220+06-Jan-2008+BW20080106?rpc=64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 spontaneous rally in NH http://blip.tv/file/582985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Crooked - Recognize that our "winning" this conversation is not necessarily a good thing. Ron Paul is one of the best Republican candidates to come our way. Welcome to the end of the hype everyone - what can be done in the next few weeks? He still can do it... The real question is though, where do his followers go if he loses? For some reason it was not until just now that it dawned on me what you were sayin. The way I look at it is this. I do not give a fuck about the republican candidates at all. I'd rather have Mike Huckabee as the GOP candidate. It would all the more increase the chances of Obama getting an undecided vote if he were to when the primary for the Dems. Basically, this shit has been a pipe dream from the beginning. I am just enjoyin watchin the smoke rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 i've been realistic about ron paul winning all along. dont get me wrong, i hope he does win and i will keep on supporting him and will write him in if he drops out, but i know deep down that americans dont want freedom. they are too dependent on big brother. and i think the .gov will do everything in their power to not let this patriot get in office. who knows if he wins, there might be a sudden 'emergency' where the .gov has to 'temporarily suspend' the presidency.... haha. who the hell knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 hannity runs from ron paul supporters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yF-a56IDzM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Do you have any idea how stupid that kind of shit makes Ron Paul supporters look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Do you have any idea how stupid that kind of shit makes Ron Paul supporters look? do you have any idea what electioneering is and how stupid that makes fox news look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Most people don't see anything wrong with Fox. The same kind of people who view gung-ho radical protest types with disdain, and the same kind of people Ron Paul must convince to earn his nomination. With his supporters acting like that they're gonna make it much more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Most people don't see anything wrong with Fox. The same kind of people who view gung-ho radical protest types with disdain, and the same kind of people Ron Paul must convince to earn his nomination. With his supporters acting like that they're gonna make it much more difficult. fox news has had more than three excuses as to why ron paul wasn't allowed at their NH debate. all of them lame. all of them pop up at times when their other excuses are blown. most people do see something wrong with fox news. especially real conservatives. they see the lies, they see that fox news pushes for middle east wars, they see that fox news is anti gun. that is why the new hampshire GOP dropped its support for the fox news NH debate. that is why people are dropping fox stocks like mad. 3 billion lost in a couple of weeks time. as the youngsters (wiggers) say: REAL TALK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedish erotica Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 fox news is pretty bad, but its pretty much cable media in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 fox news has had more than three excuses as to why ron paul wasn't allowed at their NH debate. all of them lame. all of them pop up at times when their other excuses are blown. most people do see something wrong with fox news. especially real conservatives. they see the lies, they see that fox news pushes for middle east wars, they see that fox news is anti gun. Yeah, but that's not who you're supposed to be reaching and convincing. Average Mr. Joe Conservative is not the same as "real" conservatives. He loves Fox News, and thinks Ron Paul is nuts. That's the guy you gotta win over, and that's the guy currently getting annoyed by those wacky "Paulites" and the pesky "Ronulans". I mean, you guys have been given fucking Star Trek alien names, and all you can think of is how to come up with more loud and ridiculous ideas like renting zeppelins and chasing Sean Hannity with pickets while screaming "FOX SUCKS!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim540 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 This got spammed on my myspace bulletins today at least 6 times today. I was wondering what some of you more well researched members here have to say about some of these accusations. Some of these things I could care less about but some of them like the legislation to repeal OSHA got my attention. I have worked in some places where we had to call in OSHA because our bosses were to lazy to follow the guidelines and some people were getting severely injured. On the other hand some of this stuff is BS as well. 10 reasons NOT to vote for Ron Paul!! 1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens. Here are links to these bills: H.R.3863, H.R.5909, H.J.RES.46, and H.J.RES.42. 2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links: H.R.2597 and H.R.392 3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.” Here are the related legislative links: H.R.2030, H.R.4604, H.R.736, and H.R.2720 4. Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens. Please see this link for more information: H.R.05484 Summary 5. Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. He has also sought to amend the Clean Air Act, repeal the Soil and Water Conservation Act of 1977, and to amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to “restrict the jurisdiction of the United States over the discharge of dredged or fill material to discharges into waters”. To see for yourself the possible extent of the damage to the environment that would happen under a Paul administration please follow these links: H.R.2504, H.R.7079, H.R.7245, H.R.2415, H.R.393, H.R.4639, H.R.5293, and H.R.6936 6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He has introduced legislation to keep the US from giving any funds to the UN. He also submitted that the US funds should not be used in any UN peacekeeping mission or any UN program at all. He has sponsored a bill calling for us to “terminate all participation by the United States in the United Nations, and to remove all privileges, exemptions, and immunities of the United Nations.” Ron Paul twice supported stopping the destruction of intercontinental ballistic missile silos in the United States. He also would continue with Bush’s plan of ignoring international laws by maintaining an insistence that the International Criminal Court does not apply to the US, despite President Clinton’s signature on the original treaty. The International Criminal Court is used for, among other things, prosecution of war crimes. Please see the following links: H.R.3891, H.AMDT.191, H.AMDT.190, H.R.3769, H.R.1665, H.CON.RES.23, and H.R.1154 7. Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens. This is an issue that Paul sort of dances around. He has been praised for stating that the federal government should not regulate who a person marries. This has been construed by some to mean that he is somewhat open to the idea of same sex marriage, he is not. Paul was an original co sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House in 2004. Among other things this discriminatory piece of legislation placed a prohibition on the recognition of a same sex marriage across state borders. He said in 2004 that if he was in the Texas legislature he would not allow judges to come up with “new definitions” of marriage. Paul is a very religious conservative and though he is careful with his words his record shows that he is not a supporter of same sex marriage. In 1980 he introduced a particularly bigoted bill entitled “A bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.” shows that he is unequivocally opposed to lifestyles other than heterosexual. 8. Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns. One of Paul’s loudest gripes is that the second amendment of the constitution is being eroded. In fact, he believes that September 11 would not have happened if that wasn’t true. He advocates for there to be no restrictions on personal ownership of semi-automatic weaponry or large capacity ammunition feeding devices, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act (because we all know our schools are just missing more guns), wants guns to be allowed in our National Parks, and repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968. Now, I’m pretty damn certain that when the Constitution was written our founding fathers never intended for people to be walking around the streets with AK47’s and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices.” (That just sounds scary.) Throughout the years our Constitution has been amended and is indeed a living document needing changes to stay relevant in our society. Paul has no problem changing the Constitution when it fits his needs, such as no longer allowing those born in the US to be citizens if their parents are not. On the gun issue though he is no holds barred. I know he’s from Texas but really, common sense tells us that the amendments he is seeking to repeal have their place. In fact, the gun control act was put into place after the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy. Please view the following links: H.R.2424, H.R.1897, H.R.1096, H.R.407, H.R.1147, and H.R.3892. 9. Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system. The fact is that Ron Paul wants to privatize everything and that includes education. Where we run into problems is that it has been shown (think our current health care system) that this doesn’t work so well in practice. Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would keep the Federal Government “from planning, developing, implementing, or administering any national teacher test or method of certification and from withholding funds from States or local educational agencies that fail to adopt a specific method of teacher certification.” In a separate piece of legislation he seeks to “prohibit the payment of Federal Education assistance in States which require the licensing or certification of private schools or private school teachers.” So basically the federal government can’t regulate teaching credentials and if states opt to require them for private schools they get no aid. That sounds like a marvelous idea teachers with no certification teaching in private schools that are allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. He is certainly moving forward with these proposals! Remember his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955? Guess what? He basically advocates for segregation in schools once again. It “Forbids any court of the United States from requiring the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Without thinking about this statement it doesn’t sound bad at all. But remember, when desegregating schools that this is done by having children go to different schools, often after a court decision as in Brown Vs. Board of Education. If this were a bill that passed, schools would no longer be compelled to comply and the schools would go back to segregation based on their locations. Ron Paul is really starting to look like a pretty bigoted guy don’t you think? 10. Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state. This reason is probably behind every other thing that I disagree with in regards to Paul’s positions. Ron Paul is among those who believes that there is a war on religion, he stated “Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view.”1 Though he talks a good talk, at times, Ron Paul can’t get away from his far right, conservative views. He would support “alternative views” to evolution taught in public schools (i.e. Intelligent Design.) We’ve already taken a look at his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 Besides hating the gays he takes a very religious stance on many other things. He is attempting to force his beliefs on the rest of America, exactly what he would do as president. So there you have it, my 10 reasons not to vote for Ron Paul. Please take the time to thoroughly review the records of the people running for office so you know where they really stand. Ron Paul has good rhetoric and he opposes the war but he’s not a good man in the human rights sense of the phrase. He is pretty much like every other Republican but more insidious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some1 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Actually a friend of mines band put the big ron paul sign on the back of their trailer and hand out info on Ron Paul at shows. They are all well versed in his policies and do alot to spread the word without discouraging people and making themselves look crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Yeah, but that's not who you're supposed to be reaching and convincing. Average Mr. Joe Conservative is not the same as "real" conservatives. He loves Fox News, and thinks Ron Paul is nuts. That's the guy you gotta win over, and that's the guy currently getting annoyed by those wacky "Paulites" and the pesky "Ronulans". I mean, you guys have been given fucking Star Trek alien names, and all you can think of is how to come up with more loud and ridiculous ideas like renting zeppelins and chasing Sean Hannity with pickets while screaming "FOX SUCKS!". no, those people are called noeconservatives. and the name calling is immature. they are not aware of the issues and probably never will be. they still think the iraq war was warranted, and somehow iraq was connected to 9/11. they will never wake up. real conservatives know the deal with fox news. "joe neocon" is not and still thinks sean hannity is a journalist and bill o'rly is "fair and balanced". grim: i think AOD would be someone who can answer all of those questions without researching. i can tell you that better than 70% of that is lies. dr. paul is also an advocate of the 2nd amendment...the NRA is eroding it as we speak. constantly lobbying against us (gun owners). and he does support separation of church and state, as it is in the constitution of the united states. i can tell you that the UN is a fraud and the US should get out while the getting is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 no, those people are called noeconservatives. and the name calling is immature. they are not aware of the issues and probably never will be. they still think the iraq war was warranted, and somehow iraq was connected to 9/11. they will never wake up. real conservatives know the deal with fox news. "joe neocon" is not and still thinks sean hannity is a journalist and bill o'rly is "fair and balanced". I'm not disagreeing with any of this, all I'm saying is that THAT's the kind of voter Ron Paul needs to convince in order to win. I don't see how the tactics being employed by his supporters are going to achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I'm not disagreeing with any of this, all I'm saying is that THAT's the kind of voter Ron Paul needs to convince in order to win. I don't see how the tactics being employed by his supporters are going to achieve that. what you and i are witnessing is something that is not new for our country, but it hasn't been seen in awhile. the people want change and we're all kind of pissed off that we aren't getting it. i was just arguing with you for the hell of it. it makes for interesting back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 ah, those 10 points are from a socialist journal arent they? 10 reasons not to vote for ron paul from a socialists view? i would love to debate each point, but i guess it would probably be easier to say that my point is proven. americans dont want freedom. and those socialist talking points are why, because americans think that is government is decentralized, everyone will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 "1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens. Here are links to these bills: H.R.3863, H.R.5909, H.J.RES.46, and H.J.RES.42." the smallest minority on the planet is the individual. liberty lovers do not support group rights as in reality, they dont exist. only individual rights do, like life, liberty, property. but this is usually called 'racist' by the statists. as for the citizenship thing, the 14th amendment was written to give slaves equal rights and to allow them to be citizens because they had no way of actually going through legal channels to become citizens of the several states when they were chained up. what paul is targeting is illegal aliens hopping the border, having a child, then the child is a citizen. the writers of the 14th amendment would be agast at this perversion the courts have thrown on us. "2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links: H.R.2597 and H.R.392" as president, paul would have no constitutional authority to decide abortion for the 50 states. nor does anyone in the federal government. roe v wade was pulled out of a magic hat. no federal right to abortion exists. using the 10th amendment, the 2 coasts would legalize abortion and most southern and western states would prohibit it. if you want to have national abortion, atleast amend the constitution as you are supposed too, such as how ron paul introduced a bill to make life begin at conception, to allow everyone to vote on this matter and change it through the proper channels. he also introduced an iraq war declaration.... guess he is pro war too?? "3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.” Here are the related legislative links: H.R.2030, H.R.4604, H.R.736, and H.R.2720" this is great. repealing the minimum wage will not destroy the working class it will help it. as of right now, any job that is below the federal minimum wage, is essentially outlawed. the minimum wage isnt a floor on wages it is a jump. you have to be able to do a certain amount of marginal revenue product to hop this hurdle. right now people with disability or no skills, dont have jobs if they cant hop the federally mandated minimum wage. couple the min. wage with welfare and you have a sure fire recipe for joblessness, lack of work ethic, and incentives to not get married and raise children properly. "4. Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens. Please see this link for more information: H.R.05484 Summary" i would check your facts on those tax 'credits.' usually in DC tax 'credits' are nothing more than more taxes. sort of like when they 'cut' something it just means they dont expand the budget on something. ron pauls plan is indeed unfair to low wage earners because he would eliminate 90% of federal taxes if he could which would in turn not allow the low paid workers to use govt services and not pay into it because there wouldnt be any 'govt' services. right now 'low' paid workers pay no taxes on their income. you see ron paul wants to cut taxes everywhere and anywhere and wants to abolish the IRS and not even replace it with a fair tax. so if cutting taxes is detrimental to working citizens, i simply dont know what to tell you. "5. Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. He has also sought to amend the Clean Air Act, repeal the Soil and Water Conservation Act of 1977, and to amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to “restrict the jurisdiction of the United States over the discharge of dredged or fill material to discharges into waters”. To see for yourself the possible extent of the damage to the environment that would happen under a Paul administration please follow these links: H.R.2504, H.R.7079, H.R.7245, H.R.2415, H.R.393, H.R.4639, H.R.5293, and H.R.6936" you know, if the green zealots have their way they would rid the earth of all people. what peeves me with armchair environmentalists is that they nearly all live in the city, all use cars, all impact the earth, all overpopulate the earth... but they have it within their capacity to eliminate one person from the population, themselves, but they never do. they keep driving cars. with the set up we have now, no one can sue a corporation for polluting their property. liberals complain about high fuel prices, yet they continue to raise taxes on fuel. then they dont want to increase the supply by safely drilling in a tundra that is inhabited by hardly anything. outstanding. "6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He has introduced legislation to keep the US from giving any funds to the UN. He also submitted that the US funds should not be used in any UN peacekeeping mission or any UN program at all. He has sponsored a bill calling for us to “terminate all participation by the United States in the United Nations, and to remove all privileges, exemptions, and immunities of the United Nations.” that is one of the best things that could happen. the UN is nothing more than a world government body that wants to impose its will on american citizens. its law subverts the constitution. they force us to rewrite our laws to follow thier mandates. its rediculous. we didnt fight a war in 1775 to throw off one imperial power to allow another imperial power to rule us. "6. Ron Paul twice supported stopping the destruction of intercontinental ballistic missile silos in the United States. He also would continue with Bush’s plan of ignoring international laws by maintaining an insistence that the International Criminal Court does not apply to the US, despite President Clinton’s signature on the original treaty. The International Criminal Court is used for, among other things, prosecution of war crimes. Please see the following links: H.R.3891, H.AMDT.191, H.AMDT.190, H.R.3769, H.R.1665, H.CON.RES.23, and H.R.1154" again, undermining of US sovereignty. "7. Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens. This is an issue that Paul sort of dances around. He has been praised for stating that the federal government should not regulate who a person marries. This has been construed by some to mean that he is somewhat open to the idea of same sex marriage, he is not. Paul was an original co sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House in 2004. Among other things this discriminatory piece of legislation placed a prohibition on the recognition of a same sex marriage across state borders. He said in 2004 that if he was in the Texas legislature he would not allow judges to come up with “new definitions” of marriage. Paul is a very religious conservative and though he is careful with his words his record shows that he is not a supporter of same sex marriage. In 1980 he introduced a particularly bigoted bill entitled “A bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.” shows that he is unequivocally opposed to lifestyles other than heterosexual." ron pauls bill simply removed a highly controversial social issue from the central governments authority. the 10th amendment makes these issues, state issues. the only time the left likes decentralized government is when states legalize drugs. dont you realize that this is a very important principle? it means people can live their lives and in communities as they see fit with out other people telling them what to do. simple federalism can solve lots of issues. "8. Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns. One of Paul’s loudest gripes is that the second amendment of the constitution is being eroded. In fact, he believes that September 11 would not have happened if that wasn’t true. He advocates for there to be no restrictions on personal ownership of semi-automatic weaponry or large capacity ammunition feeding devices, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act (because we all know our schools are just missing more guns), wants guns to be allowed in our National Parks, and repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968. Now, I’m pretty damn certain that when the Constitution was written our founding fathers never intended for people to be walking around the streets with AK47’s and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices.” (That just sounds scary.) Throughout the years our Constitution has been amended and is indeed a living document needing changes to stay relevant in our society. Paul has no problem changing the Constitution when it fits his needs, such as no longer allowing those born in the US to be citizens if their parents are not. On the gun issue though he is no holds barred. I know he’s from Texas but really, common sense tells us that the amendments he is seeking to repeal have their place. In fact, the gun control act was put into place after the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy. Please view the following links: H.R.2424, H.R.1897, H.R.1096, H.R.407, H.R.1147, and H.R.3892." do i even need to go into this? gun free school zones are nothing but disarmed victim propaganda camps. ron paul is the anti drug pro drug legalization candidate. he is no compromise pro gun candidate who only owns one gun. its called liberty folks. guns are for nothing more than personal protection and ultimately the defense of a free citizenry. ask the 170 million people killed by their own governments that were disarmed first, how they feel about guns. "9. Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system. The fact is that Ron Paul wants to privatize everything and that includes education. Where we run into problems is that it has been shown (think our current health care system) that this doesn’t work so well in practice. Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would keep the Federal Government “from planning, developing, implementing, or administering any national teacher test or method of certification and from withholding funds from States or local educational agencies that fail to adopt a specific method of teacher certification.” In a separate piece of legislation he seeks to “prohibit the payment of Federal Education assistance in States which require the licensing or certification of private schools or private school teachers.” So basically the federal government can’t regulate teaching credentials and if states opt to require them for private schools they get no aid. That sounds like a marvelous idea teachers with no certification teaching in private schools that are allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. He is certainly moving forward with these proposals!" again people seem to think that without federal aid and control schools wouldnt exist, art wouldnt exist or that energy wouldnt exist. its rediculous really. all increased federal control in schools does is glorify moscow on the potomac and teaches that anyone that believes in liberty is the enemy. they take away the right of local control of schools and its curriculum from local citizens. "9. Remember his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955? Guess what? He basically advocates for segregation in schools once again. It “Forbids any court of the United States from requiring the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Without thinking about this statement it doesn’t sound bad at all. But remember, when desegregating schools that this is done by having children go to different schools, often after a court decision as in Brown Vs. Board of Education. If this were a bill that passed, schools would no longer be compelled to comply and the schools would go back to segregation based on their locations. Ron Paul is really starting to look like a pretty bigoted guy don’t you think?" abolishing forced integration is promoting segregation? in the 1950's schools were segregated by many states. when schools were desegregated they attended schools where they lived. people associated with who they wanted too. then along came the central planners saying that desegregation wasnt enough, but we need to centrally plan who goes to what schools, which was forced integration. they said you need to have a certain number of his race mixed with this race. this completely obliterated the right of free association. "10. Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state. This reason is probably behind every other thing that I disagree with in regards to Paul’s positions. Ron Paul is among those who believes that there is a war on religion, he stated “Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view.”1 Though he talks a good talk, at times, Ron Paul can’t get away from his far right, conservative views. He would support “alternative views” to evolution taught in public schools (i.e. Intelligent Design.) We’ve already taken a look at his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 Besides hating the gays he takes a very religious stance on many other things. He is attempting to force his beliefs on the rest of America, exactly what he would do as president." i agree with him. they dont want people to live their lives and practice religion as they see fit. he is opposed to a church state merger. how allowing people to use their first amendment rights is abolishing separation of church and state is rediculous. the separation of church and state isnt even constitutional. the only thing the constitution says is congress shall write no law establishing religion and there shall be no religious test. it does not mean that people arent allowed to practice religion as they see fit. there is also no right not to see nativity scenes on someone else's private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 hey! fox excluding RP out of their debate/forum was more of a win for Paul... many stations and tv shows wouldnt have been talking about it the day after if it wasnt for Faux. i heard on the cuban american radio the callers talking about the issue, non were againt the man, all talking knowledge, it seemed unreal....from the miami cubans? yeah... I HAVE NOTICE SOMETHING THOUGH regular people, on the net, that they themselves are not into the neocon NWO agenda. like commies and some democrats going for even kucinich are hating on paul big time. started attacking him after iowa, and i also see it happening here with that obama revolution thread. come on, the dude has a bunch of braindead cheerleaders as supporters, and he wont make change the country like Ron Paul would do. look at thinksmall comment on obama's wife.^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond encrusted jesus Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 on leno last night http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-fwEAf6M1U&eurl=http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22712.com/node/22712 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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