ex-klansman found guilty

[angelofdeath]

we can argue about this forever, but i'll just send this again...

 

"as tancredo said, dealing the race card from the bottom of the deck, is used only to try to discredit your opponent, when you have no other real arguments."

 

as for buchanan being racist, please check out theamericancause.org and find racist material on there. buchanan advocates the same stuff goldwater did till the end of his career in the 80's.

i have come to the conclusion that if someone isnt calling you a racist today, you aint doing something right. most views to the very slight right of center are considered racist and bigoted. thats fine, im starting something new. anything to the slight left, you are a fucking commie. lol

 

"You might truly believe conservative policies, but there are many who are just plain racist. If you are a true conservative you would be better off dealing with the Libertarians, or even Anarchists rather than defending these racists. "

 

thats the thing. i like the libertarian party, however thier social issues are to liberal for my tastes. im sure there are some that are racist, im sure there are some democrats who are racist. again refer to my reposted quote above....

[angelofdeath]

i found this quote while surfing i think it sorta sums it up pretty good... in reguards to the larry pratt/militia groups....

 

"Contrary to popular belief, most militia members are hard-working, average Americans who are loyal to the United States, the Constitution, and the rights granted thereunder. However, there are also many who can accurately be described as right-wing extremists, terrorists or racists; sometimes... all three."

[Stereotype V.001]

Six Flags guy, how could you?

[angelofdeath]

thats one damn funny link.

[KaBar2]

I think that there are areas where mainline conservatives like the right wing of the Republican Party and some of the Libertarians rub elbows with genuine racists, but the same thing can be said to be true of the Democrat Party and black separatists.

 

Don't you guys realize that the Ku Klux Klan and the Nation of Islam communicate regularly and share some common goals? Both organizations advocate racial separatism. Both organizations despise Jews. Both organizations are organized around a "fascist" model. (Take a gander at NOI's uniformed bodyguards next time Minister Farrakhan has a big public photo op. The styles come straight from Hitler's Brown Shirts, kepis, Sam Brown belt and all.)

 

I see that people on 12 oz. condemn white racists frequently. Why is it that virtually nobody condemns black racism? It definately exists, and according to the NOI, their numbers are growing. If it were the Klan or the National Alliance bragging about their recruiting success, you guys would be condemning them big time.

 

Race hatred is race hatred. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you are honestly against racism, you must be against all racism, not just white racism.

 

BTW, the quotes from "The Beast Reawakens" were very interesting. I'm going to see if I can locate a copy.

[serum]

i understand what you`re talking about kabar but by definition there is no such thing as black racism since they are not in power.

[the ugly duckling]

Originally posted by serum@Jun 27 2005, 07:23 AM

i understand what you`re talking about kabar but by definition there is no such thing as black racism since they are not in power.

Quoted post

 

forget about the technicalities. hate is hate. if any one person can hate and/or discriminate, against another person because of race, religion, or anything else, to me that is racism.

[KaBar2]

Serum---

 

The Nazis weren't in power either, when they started their party. They were a bunch of disgruntled WWI veterans and populist malcontents who the rest of the world regarded with bemused contempt.

 

The Hutu militia Interahamwe were not "in power" when they decided to slaughter 950,000 ethnic Tutsis in Rwanda. The Tutsi Rwandan Patriotic Front was not in power when it overthrew the government of the Hutu majority and caused a mass migration of Hutus into Burundi and Congo, where several hundred thousand died of cholera and dysentery.

 

Racism is hatred based on race or ethnicity, PERIOD. Nobody gets a free pass to hate just because they are not "in power." We have a really stupid line of thought within the universities here in the U.S. that somehow or another it's okay for blacks and browns to hate whites because whites are the numerical majority. According to projected demographics, that's not necessarily going to remain the case. Someday, whites will no longer be the majority if present population trends continue. So the message is, "You just wait, white devils, payback is coming." Oh, yeah? Well, gosh, there's an attitude carefully calculated to encourage white people to feel liberal and inclusive, eh? This country is becoming Balkanized. If you look at what has occurred in other countries where Balkanization has occurred, you are looking at a possible outcome for the the United States, for Canada, and for Europe. It has barely been fifty years since the last time it occurred. Do you somehow imagine that a reoccurrance is impossible? Think again.

 

Do not underestimate the capacity of people to engage in horror. Believe me, it's possible, here, and everywhere. And peace signs and interfaith prayer breakfasts will not stop it. What stops it is if EVERY PERSON HAS THE CAPACITY TO DEFEND HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY.

 

The Interahamwe killed 950,000 Tutsis with cheap machetes from China that cost ten cents apiece. They did not use concentration camps and gas chambers. They did not use mass firing squads. They hacked people to death two and three and twenty at a time, all over Rwanda. Do not think that such insanity cannot occur in the United States, because it certainly can. All that is required is for animosity and hatred to grow to a critical level. And it does not matter who is "in power."

[ASER1NE]

I dont care how old the motherfucker is let him burn in hell .

[KaBar2]

That is a judgement somewhat beyond the jurisdiction of the Federal courts, I'm afraid. Supposedly, we do not seek revenge, but justice. Justice has prevailed.

 

Forty years late, but better late than never, I suppose. How does the saying go? "Justice delayed is justice denied."

[villain]

Any party you look at is going to have it's unsavory characters. My point is that the Republican party is more flush with racists than other alternatives.

And it's true that many militia members are hardworking, average americans. If you would read that book you would see that the racism in the militia movement is not a mantra... It's more subversive and resides mostly in it's leadership. I have known, and actually been friends with many militia members. Most of them are unaware of any racist undercurrents. However the ideology sometimes plays into the hands of extreme nationalists, which could manifest itself as racist, or theist. Christianity taken to extremes can manifest as racist, given it's holier than thou posturing.

 

And yes Kabar, I understand that Farrakhan and his ilk are no better than neonazis and the like, and even work together sometimes towards similar goals. I suppose the reason why racism by non-whites against whites seems less offensive to me is because ,more often than not, it is a reactionary racism, and not based purely on hate or ignorance like most whites racism.

Yeah it's a good book kabar. Lots of reference material you could dig into for a long time.

[dumy]

exactly what I was thinking villian, in regards to your comments about racism..

 

.

[angelofdeath]

"My point is that the Republican party is more flush with racists than other alternatives. "

 

not totally. most of the "radical right wing extremists" are not part of the republican party. just for the hell of it, read up on some of what the racist whacko's think. aside from thier race being superior, (and fuck racism period, not just ESPECIALLY fuck white vs everyone else racism) they mostly display radical views toward government. usually anti government sentiment all together. to the point, lets take David Duke. ran as a republican. he basically denounces everything the bush administration stands for. i think i might of heard he dropped his party affiliation or something. i think you might just be towing the party line and feeding off of what you hear. as kabar pointed out, there is shady activity to go around everywhere. im talking REAL racism, not just a loose redundant charge slung at someone mainly from the left side of the isle when you cant have a serious debate.

 

to the point: check up on the racism charges, see what they really are, see if it is just some blank half truth argument, like "OMG! THEY LIKE WANT TO STOP THOSE POOR PEOPLE FROM ENTERING OUR COUNTRY! OMG OMG!!!!!" and actually see what party they are in. i dont think to many "racists" actually back bush.

 

"I suppose the reason why racism by non-whites against whites seems less offensive to me is because "

 

as for this statement, it just glows with double standard. im not saying your condoning farraKKKan, but i could argue this same logic of reactionary racism from this standpoint. my girl's father has had a long history of unprovoked "racist" acts against him. so basically he is racist. i constantly would give my girl shit about some stuff he would say, but got bored of it. so because he is white and had several distinguished racist acts done to him from the ghetto black population near by, is it "not as offensive" for him to be racist in return?

to me, it just as bad as the black panthers, or the neo nazi's. hating someone for the color of thier skin is sheer ignorance, any way you look at it. and this is the reason why, when i found out that the ARA uses similar logic, and basically wont do shit to represent and fight for people other than blacks etc, and communists are found at thier rallies, i threw away my ara jacket and denounce them every chance i get. be non biased in fighting racism. period.

[angelofdeath]

oh screw it, just to stir the pot a little bit. larry elder, a black libertarian.

 

 

The race card -- 2005

Larry Elder

 

January 13, 2005

 

The Democratic Party continues to play the race card for political gain.

 

The Reverend Jesse Jackson steamed into Ohio, the so-called battleground state that went for Bush, claiming that Ohioans' votes failed to count. "The playing field is uneven," said Jackson. "...We as Americans should not be begging a secretary of state for a fair vote count. We cannot be the home of the thief and the land of the slave."

 

Remember the claims by John Kerry and others of one million black voters disenfranchised in Florida during the 2000 presidential election? Peter Kirsanow, a black attorney and member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, says the commission's six-month investigation failed to find any evidence of black voter "intimidation." "Not one person was intimidated," says Kirsanow, "[or] had their vote stolen. There was no disenfranchisement . . . no truth to any of those allegations."

 

According to columnist John Leo, contributing editor at U.S. News and World Report:

 

If an effort was underway to suppress the black vote, it clearly failed: 900,000 blacks voted in Florida, up 65 percent over the 1996 presidential election. That unexpectedly high total clearly strained the system, put pressure on officials and voters to move along quickly, and kept phone lines clogged when voter verification calls were needed.

 

P. Diddy, the rapper, music mogul and fashion impresario, spearheaded a "Vote or Die!" voter awareness campaign. Diddy called himself a "disenfranchised voter." "...I'm...a disenfranchised voter," said Diddy, "...because politicians, they just didn't pay attention to us. I call ourselves 'the forgotten ones' -- youth and minority voters. Their campaign trails don't come into our communities unless they go to the churches, and they don't stop and speak to us." Sort of a 21st-century definition of the word "disenfranchisement." Whatever.

 

Donna Brazile, Al Gore's campaign manager -- and a black woman -- called the Republican Party the party of the "white boys." According to Brazile, "A white boy attitude is, 'I must exclude, denigrate and leave behind.' They don't see it or think about it. It's a culture." (Brazile now serves as an analyst for CNN.)

 

Samuel L. Jackson is a respected black actor who appeared in more American films than anyone during the 1990s. In April 2000, he appeared on the cover of Architectural Digest, along with Clark Gable, Natalie Wood, William H. Macy, Hedy Lamarr, Marilyn Monroe, Bing Crosby, Doris Day and Claire Danes. Surely the Jackson family celebrated the actor's appearance on the cover, and the glowing inside piece on their lovely home. Wrong. Because Jackson shared the cover with other celebrities, his wife, LaTanya Richardson Jackson, wrote to the magazine and accused it of racism:

 

"It is with sincere regret that I write to tell you how disappointing it is to see my husband, Samuel L. Jackson, featured in the lower left-hand corner on the cover of your April 2000 issue," wrote Mrs. Jackson. "It seems a very odd and racist placement. In the magazine racks of most establishments you don't see him at all; perhaps that was the point. I hardly think anyone is really more interested in all of the dead people you chose to prominently display . . . ."

 

More recently, the actor implied racism on the part of the National Basketball Association for severe punishment of athletes involved in the Detroit Pistons/Indiana Pacers' brawl in Michigan:

 

...t kinda looked like a, you know, black-athlete-beatin'-up-white-fan fight more so than, you know, athletes versus fans.... It looked like it was [a racial element], and I'm sure Commissioner Stern had to defuse that situation, like getting rid of the bad guy. But you can't deprive a guy of makin' a livin' all year, just because he did something like that.

 

Actor Will Smith blamed racism for the AIDS epidemic. "I firmly believe that it is quite highly possible," said Smith, "that the AIDS virus is the result of genetic warfare testing."

 

Richard Williams, father of tennis sensations Venus and Serena Williams, also has three stepdaughters -- one is an actress and singer, one is a lawyer, and one, now deceased, attended medical school. His view of America's "race relations"? "In America," says Williams, "black people doesn't really have an opportunity at nothin'. . . . It's kinda bad bein' black in America."

 

Polls find young blacks less likely to call racism America's No. 1 issue. A Time/CNN poll found 89 percent of black teens consider racism in their own lives to be "a small problem" or "not a problem at all." Twice as many black teens as white believe that "failure to take advantage of available opportunities" is a bigger problem for blacks than discrimination. Polls and focus groups show younger blacks less likely to identify themselves as Democrats, and more likely to support partial privatization of Social Security, school vouchers and the abolition of race-based preferences. This spells trouble for the Democratic Party and its monolithic black vote.

 

Horrors! The Democrats may have to find another card to play.

[villain]

I know radical right wingers are not a part of the republican party. When the chips are down though and they are faced with a democratic or republican vote they are going to lean republican. You know how this system works. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

Of course racism is wrong, period. I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying that it is slightly more understandable when it's reactionary as opposed to an unfounded hate based upon ignorance. SLIGHTLY more understandable. You don't have to pull the double standard card on me, I have no need to redact my statement. I could have anticipated you saying that because you seem to like to take cheap shots, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong.

 

I don't know what your chapter of ARA is like but the one I am familiar with pulls no punches. They stand up for the oppressed the world over regardless of ethnicity. It only seems like a problem because of the media filters or perhaps even your own perception. Let me use amnesty international as an example since I feel I can equate their work with the ARA and it's easier to find this information for research purposes. Amnesty international has without bias condemned the genocide of saddam, the mass starvation of Iraqis during sanctions, and the civilian casualties and prisoner treatment of this war. Yet this administration and the media only uses the information that is convenient in justifying their ends rather than being fair and impartial across the board.

 

This larry elder article is mostly anecdotal evidence with a handful of polls I am not familiar with trying to shore up against hundreds of thousands of charges with evidence of voter fraud and disenfranchisement. It should go without saying that I am not convinced.

 

BTW I really don't like being portrayed as biased. If you would have known me in the 90s you would know that I had plenty to criticize Clinton about as well. Not nearly as much as Bushware 2.0 however.

[KaBar2]

Villian---

 

I don't see what cheap shots you're talking about. I thought the article was pretty much straight up. And you've got to admit, somebody bitching out Architectural Digest because they didn't get a more prominent feature of their multi-million dollar palacial home doesn't exactly conjure up visions of Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

There are plenty of reasons to criticize the Republicans, but calling them racists is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Political parties exist to serve the interests of the members of the party. People join whatever party they believe will further causes which the members favor. Since we don't have a politically viable Communist or a Socialist Party in the U.S. (the Democratic Socialists hardly count), all the Communists and Socialists vote Democrat. I don't see the Democrat Party refusing to accept the Communist votes, so why would you complain about the Republicans accepting the racists' votes? People vote for whomever they please in the U.S.

 

I don't recall exactly, but I think that David Duke first ran as a Democrat, before he switched to the Republican Party, and neither party welcomed him one bit. He still nearly won, twice.

 

I am still opposed to race hatred, regardless of who is propagating it, and regardless of who the target is. If racism is wrong (and I believe that it is) then it's wrong for EVERYBODY. But, if black racism against whites is acceptable, then white racism against blacks is acceptable. I refuse to accept a set of rules that says "It's okay for minorities to hate on whites, but if whites return the favor, they are wrong." Sorry. That dog don't hunt.

[tsuifuku]

^^^ whoa there chief, i've never voted democrat in my life

[KaBar2]

Good for you. So are you a Communist or a Socialist, lol?

[villain]

Kabar,

because comments like:

"OMG! THEY LIKE WANT TO STOP THOSE POOR PEOPLE FROM ENTERING OUR COUNTRY! OMG OMG!!!!!"

are inflammatory.

And the fact that the "Well they do it so why can't I?" argument is tiresome. Even though I said from the very beginning that I don't condone ANY type of racism, this argument was beaten to death. I said reactionary racism was slightly more understandable. Understandable in the sense that a "crime of passion" is understandable. It's not right, but you can kind of empathize because the offender is also a victim, but the crime is still repulsive. That was my point from the very beginning and still it was attacked from every angle that I left open.

 

Granted, there are socialists who vote democratic, and racists who vote republican, that's the way things are in this two party system. I'm not fond of the duopoly either. But I do find socialists more innocuous than racists. The cold war is over. It might have never even started if it wasn't for racists. Socialism is egalitarian by nature, racism is not... which do you think is more likely to cause conflict?

 

David Duke ran as all kinds of shit. They don't really care what party they represent, as long as they can sneak through the back door and sieze power.

[KaBar2]

Well, I guess we just have to expect people to not always agree with our individual points of view. I see black guys selling "The Call" and the Nation of Islam newspaper all the time on my way to work. I've purchased a few copies just to see what Minister Farrakhan is up to these days, and bottom line, if Louis Farrakhan can go around blaming all the troubles of black people on white devils and the Jews and not get BLASTED as a virulent racist and a hater, then I don't see any reason whatsoever that the Ku Klux Klan or the Nazis or anybody else should not be able to sell their newspapers, or sell "The Spotlight", and propagate their ideas.

 

I do not agree with the position of the Nation of Islam. They are straight up racially predudiced haters. I also do not agree with the Klan and the Nazis. They are straight up racist haters too. But if it's okay for NOI to push their ideas, then it's okay for the Nazis to push theirs. I've heard a lot of black people at work say things like "If I saw the KKK selling newspapers on the corner, I'd give them such a beatdown they wouldn't ever come back!" Oh, really? Well, that pretty much opens the door for Klan attacks on black folks selling "The Defender" and so on, doesn't it? Because sauce for the goose IS sauce for the gander, and if one side justifies it's hatred, it justifies it for the other side as well.

 

There has been a big upsurge in racist websites and activity lately. The National Socialist Movement (read "Nazis") just held a big rally at Bunker Hill. Only 125 of them showed up (which says a whole lot) but the fact that there are even that many is pretty disturbing. If there are 125 of them in uniform out there goose-stepping around and seig-heiling one another in public, how many hundreds or thousands are sitting quietly at home polishing their jackboots and writing checks to the NSM?

 

The more inter-racial violence, aggression and animosity that occurs, the more it fans the flames of the two extremes and drives fence-sitters towards organizations like NOI and the NSM. I'm not saying that we should be cloyingly sweet to one another, but I do think that ALL of us need to learn to respect one another as individuals, and to focus on our OWN PERSONAL SHORTCOMINGS, and not blame ANYBODY else if we are not prospering. Blaming other people for anything other than a direct attack is a big crutch. Each and every one of us is SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN LIFE. Don't bother blaming anybody else. It's a waste of time and energy.

[GEEB]

he should have gotten sentenced to 1000 years in prison, just to fuck with his head, and make him cry beacuase he knows he gonna die tomarrow.

[KaBar2]

In real life he will live out his remaining days in some protected geriatric unit, visiting with his family on visiting days, and getting a zillion letters from demented racist idiots who think that he is a martyr to their cause. He'll probably get ten thousand times more attention than he would have otherwise gotten, and when he finally dies, the racists will make his grave into some sort of shrine.

 

I can understand why Mississippi tried him again, but outside of giving the families of the victims some closure to know that he is behind bars, it's not too useful. The white racists will try to make him into a big hero.

[sleepyceas2-]

Didnt Mississippi have well known members of the Klan become governor?

[angelofdeath]

alot of the leading political figures in the deep south were some how related to the klan either for real, or "they had someone in their entourage who 'used' to be in the klan." however most of this is a stereotype for not supporting federal civil rights legislation. alot of it was preaching to the voters a gimmick that got them elected.

most early 20th century politicians held on the notion of being unreconstructed and wanted to keep the freed slaves out of power. eh, just a bad transition from owning blacks to being their equal and during the reconstruction, often times, the blacks were the superior of the southern whites.

[KaBar2]

The Klan could never have operated like they did without the willing compliance of the vast majority of the white population. Everybody knew who was in the Klan. It was hardly a secret, even in the 1960's. What the Klansmen were doing was just acting out in reality the prejudice and racism of the rest of society.

 

Yes, of course there were judges and politicians who were either actual members of the Klan or nudge-and-a-wink fellow travelers. In 1924, the Governor of Indiana was elected on a Klan platform. Ever seen "Birth of a Nation?" The Klansmen riding and marching in the parade in Washington D.C. are REAL Klansmen, not actors.

 

Where government stood against the Klan was when the Klan refused to toe the line. Here in Texas, the Klan was supposedly crushed in 1876 (their nightriding was causing more problems than not, and the "establishment" told them to stop, but they didn't.) The Klan continued to have enormous political power here well into the 1890's, and up until the time of the First World War. Since the early '20s, though, they have been nothing but a shadow of their former power.

 

In the 1960's their numbers increased again, up to around 60,000 or so, nationally, but they are down to about 5,000 now. One only very rarely sees any sign of the Klan these days. It is against the law to light a cross, except on private property with the permission of the owner. Sometimes they actually use a cross with lightbulbs, powered by a generator. Pathetic. The mighty Ku Klux Klan, with their portable 100-watt Cross. If they weren't so crazy it would be funny.

[Æ°]

Ex-Klansman granted bail in 'Mississippi Burning' case

 

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:55 PM ET

 

MIAMI (Reuters) - A Mississippi judge on Friday granted bail to 80-year-old former Ku Klux Klansman Edgar Ray Killen, who was sentenced to 60 years in prison for the 1964 killings of three civil rights workers in a case that inspired the 1988 movie "Mississippi Burning."

 

Circuit Judge Marcus Gordon granted Killen's release on bond of $600,000 pending appeal of his manslaughter conviction, Neshoba County court clerk Patti Duncan Lee said. Killen had not posted bond as of early afternoon.

 

"The judge granted bond of $600,000, $200,000 for each count," Lee said.

 

Killen was convicted by a multiracial jury on June 21 on three counts of felony manslaughter for the notorious crime that galvanized the civil rights movement. He was sentenced two days later to 20 years in prison on each count.

 

After a short trial evoking memories of the brutal racial violence of the era, the jury found Killen organized a posse to kidnap, beat and shoot Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney and bulldoze their bodies under an earthen dam.

 

The jury cleared him of the more serious charge of murder. Schwerner and Goodman, white New Yorkers, and Chaney, a black Mississippian, were helping blacks register to vote during the Freedom Summer civil rights campaign when they were killed on June 21, 1964.

 

 

Link here

[imported_dowmagik]

yeah, i saw that on the news this morning, pretty damn rediculous.