The Draft

[GEEB]

Please do correct me if im wrong, but i heard from a american govt professor that the only child of a family cannot be drafted into the army is this true? for the record im the eldest of three so if theres a draft im screwed anyways.

[villain]

Yeah that was the case so that someone could carry on the family name. As for now however.... i dunno.

[KYU]

ooooh, more liberal propaganda, thanks hypocrites

[ghost citizen]

jeez, i dont know if there will or will not be a draft. but i do see the same hostility and close minded bullshit that makes me sick happening over this issue like so many others. people just label eachother and then cease to hear one another.

when you use a term like "hippie" what does that mean? Or "liberal" or "conservative". these words are bullshit and they save you the trouble of actually discussing the issue with some thought and effort.

Personally, I just hope that America will one day be liberated from our obsession with money and wealth and status and we will be able to have generations value and enjoy life. Rather than sell it to the small group of unimginably wealthy people which run everything. These people must be dethroned and we must reinvent our national moral compass.

[POIESIS]

scott ritter's now saying the draft is inevitable too.

[hungoverseas]

my question:

 

will they draft college students who can't pass a drug test?

[SF1]

Originally posted by angelofdeath+Mar 4 2005, 09:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (angelofdeath - Mar 4 2005, 09:19 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>fucking hippies.

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[/b]

 

 

<!--QuoteBegin-angelofdeath@Mar 7 2005, 10:11 PM

you guys are to funny. first off im not a neo con. second off your a bunch of pussies if your scared of a draft. end of story.

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Hey faggot I'm calling you out. Tell me what you write and where you're from and I'll make the trip as soon as posible and we will see who's a fucking hippy. I need the excuse for a road trip.

[SF1]

Oh yeah, "Angel of death", why aint you in Iraq??? :confused: :confused:

[ink face]

like has previously been said, i'm not going to pretend to know or understand what s going on behind closed doors. but i do know that i will not ever volunterily join any of the armed forces while we fight wars over shit like we are right now. and if they do reinstate the draft that i will not go. and it will not be because i am a pussy or a hippie, but that i refuse to put my life on the line for some rich guy to get richer because he lied to me and made me feel patriotic. and if they try and come take me from my home and make me fight, i will kill as many as i can before being gunned down myself, because i would rather die over something i believe in, and what i believe is that all of this is over a few people's GREED.

[ElectricitySucks]

6 days till march 31st..

[villain]

Originally posted by SF1+Mar 25 2005, 03:01 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SF1 - Mar 25 2005, 03:01 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by angelofdeath@Mar 4 2005, 09:19 PM

fucking hippies.

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<!--QuoteBegin-angelofdeath@Mar 7 2005, 10:11 PM

you guys are to funny. first off im not a neo con. second off your a bunch of pussies if your scared of a draft. end of story.

Quoted post

 

 

Hey faggot I'm calling you out. Tell me what you write and where you're from and I'll make the trip as soon as posible and we will see who's a fucking hippy. I need the excuse for a road trip.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

 

I don't get all the name calling either. We are THUGS, not HIPPIES. We KILL people for talking SHIT.

[POIESIS]

washington monthly drops some science: "the case for the draft"

[villain]

Here's some news about recruitment, retention, and reinstatement levels:

 

Army Expects Recruiting to Slump Further

- By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

Wednesday, March 23, 2005

 

(03-23) 11:15 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --

 

The Army expects to miss its recruiting goals this month and next and is working on a revised sales pitch appealing to the patriotism of parents, Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey said Wednesday.

 

Whether that boosts enlistment numbers or not, Harvey said he sees no chance of a military draft.

 

"The `D' word is the farthest thing from my mind," the former defense company executive told a Pentagon news conference, his first since becoming the Army's top civilian official last November.

 

Because of the military manpower strains caused by simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, some in Congress have raised the possibility of re-instituting the draft, although there is a strong consensus against it among Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and the military chiefs.

 

This is the first time the United States has been in a sustained period of combat since the all-volunteer force was introduced in 1973. The Air Force and Navy, which have relatively smaller roles in Iraq and Afghanistan, have no recruiting problems, but the Army and Marines are hard pressed.

 

The Army missed its recruiting goal for February by 27 percent, and that was the first time it had missed a monthly goal since May 2000. The last time it missed its full-year goal was 1999.

 

As of Feb. 28, the regular Army was 6 percent below the number of recruits it had expected to sign up at that point in the recruiting year, the Army Reserve was 10 percent off and the Army National Guard was 25 percent off.

 

The Army is forecasting that all three elements — active, Guard and Reserve — will fall short of their targets for March and April. That means they will have to make up the lost ground this summer — traditionally the best recruiting season — in order to meet their full-year goals.

 

"I'm clearly not going to give up," Harvey said. "At this stage we still have six months to go" before the recruiting year ends Sept. 30. "I've challenged our human resource people to get as innovative as they can. And even as we speak we've got a number of new ideas."

 

One of those new approaches is designed to persuade more parents to steer their children to the Army.

 

"We're going to appeal to patriotism," he said.

 

That might be done through a new advertising campaign, he said. He also is encouraging more members of Congress as well as senior Army leaders and Army boosters to spend time in local communities touting the benefits of military service.

 

The Army also has increased the number of recruiters on the street by 33 percent and is offering bigger signup bonuses. Last week the Army announced that the National Guard and Reserve were raising the maximum age for recruits from 34 to 39 in order to expand the pool of potential enlistees. The regular Army could not raise the maximum age without congressional approval.

 

In a related matter, the Army said more people in the Individual Ready Reserve — those no longer in uniform and not obligated to train — are going to be hearing from the Army in the weeks ahead. The Army has revised upward the number of IRR soldiers it plans to put on active duty, from the 4,402 announced last summer to 4,653. Of those given mobilization orders so far, 370 have failed to report for duty, according to Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, an Army spokeswoman. An additional 2,229 have asked for delays in their reporting dates or for exemptions.

 

Harvey also disclosed that the Army is "looking at" changing its policy on having more than one sibling in a combat zone at the same time. He did not say how the policy might be altered, and he declined to say more about the subject, other than to indicate that it came up when he visited the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where wounded U.S. troops are treated.

 

The current policy is that if one of two siblings in a combat zone is killed, the Army will consider removing the remaining one from the combat zone if the surviving soldier or his parents request it, according to spokeswoman Hart. She said she was not aware of any planned change.

 

Lt. Col. Tom Collins, spokesman for Harvey, said later that Harvey was in the early stages of thinking through the whole issue and that no proposed changes had been developed yet.

 

 

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file.../w111557S06.DTL

[bobthebuilder]

If you took the time to read that whoel article. the people who can make the decision of reinstating the draft dont want it. Ive already given reasons why the draft is responsible for military ineffectivity. If anything they will give a pay rasie or higher sign on bonuses... it will be cheaper that way.

[PaperbackWriter]

2 words: Iggy Pop. It only took my man 2 hours to dodge the draft! Homeboy just rocked the crazy wood with no briefs at the inspection and was subjected to a battery of psychological testing which he gladly failed. I also heard rumors of some dude putting peanut butter in his droors and pulling out handfulls and eating it in front of the draft board....they thought he was eating poop!

[bobthebuilder]

Youre freinds with a Vietnam era teenager? That was the last draft.

[POIESIS]

Originally posted by bobthebuilder@Mar 29 2005, 09:34 AM

If you took the time to read that whoel article. the people who can make the decision of reinstating the draft dont want it. Ive already given reasons why the draft is responsible for military ineffectivity. If anything they will give a pay rasie or higher sign on bonuses... it will be cheaper that way.

Quoted post

 

obviously you're not referencing the article i posted becuz clearly you didn't take

the time to read it.

[bobthebuilder]

"although there is a strong consensus against it among Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and the military chiefs."

 

These are the people who make the decision of the draft... not congress. Congress responds to their needs, SO if donald rumsfeld and his commanders believe they need a draft to win wars... we will have a draft. But they dont. So... read the article again.

[POIESIS]

wow, you cherry picked one line. bravo.

in any event, you're missing the point. it's not a matter of how poiitically inconvenient* it may be, it's a matter of hard numbers.

 

*by the way, if the argument against the draft is based solely on the political

inconvenience of it, then, all things considered, it's kind of a lousy argument,

wouldn't you say?

[bobthebuilder]

Originally posted by POIESIS@Mar 29 2005, 09:36 PM

wow, you cherry picked one line. bravo.

in any event, you're missing the point. it's not a matter of how poiitically inconvenient* it may be, it's a matter of hard numbers.

 

*by the way, as an argument, the political inconvenience of a draft is kinda lousy, all

thing considered, wouldn't you say?

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Read my previous posts in this thread, I gave the same things that every other officer in the military will tell you. Thats as far as politics go regarding the draft.

[POIESIS]

maybe later..

let me make clear, i'm not definitively saying i believe the draft is inevitable.

there are some fairly weighty things to consider though.

[bobthebuilder]

Agreed.

[hobo knife]

I think bobthebuilder said this earlier, and in retrospect (depending on circumstances) he could have been right about the fact that smaller, more specialized forces will become crucial in winning wars... So it's possible that instead of re-instating a draft we might see more "private contractors" providing special forces. I'd like to know the number of these mercinaries working for private american contractors fighting in Iraq and maybe the number of private contractors that have been killed so far. This system seems like an easy way to conceal some of the death toll and shift blame in a messy situation. I guess I dont see a draft happening unless bush gets us involved in a third war.

[SF1]

You ever go on AOL news late at night and out of bordom wonder into the chat room? Ever notice how there are people on there that have nothing to say other than praise for Bush and his administration and how "stupid" or "evil" or "unamerican" everyone else is? I mean they actually do it to the point where it's more than obvious (to anybody with half a brain) that they work for the government and are getting paid to sit in these chat rooms insulting our inteligence with their bullshit attempt at propoganda.

 

Thats what I'm reminded of everytime everytime I read a post by "Bobthebuilder" or "Angelofdeath".

[WhiteOx]

If i was drafted before i was old enough to buy grog i'd be VERY FUCKING PISSED OFF

[WhiteOx]

..

[knuckle_game]

Originally posted by SF1@Mar 31 2005, 01:46 AM

You ever go on AOL news late at night and out of bordom wonder into the chat room? Ever notice how there are people on there that have nothing to say other than praise for Bush and his administration and how "stupid" or "evil" or "unamerican" everyone else is? I mean they actually do it to the point where it's more than obvious (to anybody with half a brain) that they work for the government and are getting paid to sit in these chat rooms insulting our inteligence with their bullshit attempt at propoganda.

 

Thats what I'm reminded of everytime everytime I read a post by "Bobthebuilder" or "Angelofdeath".

Quoted post

 

Sadly, I doubt thats the case. Some people just really are that stupid.

[knuckle_game]

http://santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/di...17272/index.php

 

Funny pictures of pussy ass recruiters getting mobbed at a school in california. check out the last picture of the prison guard recruiters cowering out the back door.

Good Times!

[villain]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0330draft30-ON.html

 

Draft may be needed in a year, military analysts warn

 

Bob Dart

Cox News Service

Mar. 30, 2005 03:24 PM

 

WASHINGTON - If American forces aren't pulling out of Iraq in a year, a draft will be needed to meet manpower requirements, military analysts warned Wednesday.

 

With recruitment lagging and no end in sight for U.S. forces in Iraq, the "breaking point" for the nation's all-volunteer military will be mid-2006, agreed Lawrence Korb, a draft opponent and assistant defense secretary in the Reagan administration, and Phillip Carter, a conscription advocate and former Army captain.

 

"America's all-volunteer military simply cannot deploy and sustain enough troops to succeed in places like Iraq while still deterring threats elsewhere in the world," Carter concluded in the March issue of "Washington Monthly."

 

Korb is a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank, and a senior adviser to the Center for Defense Information. Carter is attorney who writes on military affairs for Slate.com and other media. They debated at a symposium on the draft Wednesday.

 

While conceding that the Army, Marines, National Guard and Army Reserve -- the branches serving most in Iraq -- face recruitment difficulties, military officials have denied any plans to revive the draft, which was replaced by an all-volunteer force in 1973.

 

"The 'D-word' is the farthest thing from my thoughts," Army Secretary Francis Harvey said at a Pentagon press briefing last week. He said the all-volunteer force has proven its value and applauded the performance of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

"When you get over there, there's no difference between the active, the Reserves and the National Guard. The quality is high across the board. ... It's seamless," he said.

 

During his re-election campaign, President Bush declared flatly that he would not reinstate the draft. And there is little support for conscription on Capitol Hill.

 

"Today, no leading politician in either party will come anywhere near the idea -- the draft having replaced Social Security as the third rail of American politics," wrote Carter.

 

However, the analysts said that the all-volunteer army is on the verge of "breaking" under current circumstances. The 3rd Infantry Division based in Fort Stewart, Ga., and the 4th Infantry Division based in Fort Hood, Texas, are among the units that are being sent back for a second tour in Iraq.

 

The National Guard and Reserves historically depend on men and women leaving active duty to fill their ranks, Carter pointed out. But they're not going to join if it means they will be sent right back to Iraq in an activated unit, he said.

 

Military men, women and machines are all suffering from repeated deployments.

 

"What keeps me awake at night is what will this all-volunteer force look like in 2007," Richard Cody, the Army Vice Chief of Staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 16.

 

Korb, assistant secretary defense for manpower from 1981 through 1985, said the current rotation is unfair to the "patriotic" men and women who volunteered for military service and are stuck on a cycle in and out of Iraq. Since only a tiny segment of the populace is sacrificing, there is no political pressure to change the system, he said.

 

"If you had a draft right now, I think you'd be out of Iraq," Korb said.

 

The American society "hasn't gotten the message that we're at war," agreed Carter.

 

"Those at peril are completely divorced from those in power," said Mark Shields, a syndicated columnist and TV commentator who moderated the symposium. "It's 'Patriotism Lite' -- you put a sticker on your SUV."

 

"America has a choice," wrote Carter. "It can be the world's superpower or it can maintain the current all-voluntary military. But it probably can't do both."

[SF1]

We need to get the message out now to everyone of draft age to stand strong and DON'T GO! If they try that draft shit the only way they will be successfull is if kids punk out and go. It's a fact that they can't and won't put anyone in jail if everyone refuses to answer their draft letter. It would be phisically impossible! The only way they're gonna lock heads up is if alot of people answer to the draft. If virtually nobody responds to their letters they're fucked---> They can't lock up 1000s of draft dodgers and they can't continue on their quest for world domination either. They'll be forced to just fall back and be a regular wealthy industrial nation like England or France or Canada etc...