nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hmm...if you have an M4 because the military does, that also does a good job of explaining your penchant for high school age girlfriends, because last I looked a pretty good chunk of the military has those too. If she has her own car and job, she's grown. You mad? I didn't shoot nobody. did you really just bust out the thesaurus on me? penchant? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realism Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Nah, that's an off-the-top word. Being in the northeast might make me a defenseless pussy by paranoid Texan standards, but that also means that I'm highly educated. So of course I'm white, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 you're the expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 WOULD YOU TELL YOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AGE KIDS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED? Did not have to, the bus driver took care of that along with feeding em a bunch of misinformation about motive and killings. Class act. The tyranny of the government being the reason for lax gun laws line is such bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 man's gonna do what he wants. always has. law or no law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realism Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 you're the expert. A Tea Party image. Neat! I too have a provocative Internet graphic to back up my point. ...And I'm not even particularly opposed to handgun ownership. But clearly, the laws are loose enough as it stands that they're a huge issue. Anyway, I'll hop off the Crossfire train... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So, lax gun laws are not for resisting government over reach but are justified by some sort of wild spirit reasoning. When you are in your 30's having a girlfriend who has a car is not really high up on things to brag about on the internet btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 mushroom tea party, maybe. Cause of death (Data from 2009 unless otherwise noted)1 Number All Causes 2,437,163 Diseases of Heart 599,413 Malignant Neoplasms 567,628 Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases 137,353 Cerebrovascular Diseases 128,842 Lack of Health Insurance3 (2005) 44,789 Poisoning 41,592 Drug-Induced2 39,147 Intentional Self-Harm (Suicide) 36,909 Septicemia 35,639 Motor Vehicle Accidents 34,485 Firearm Injuries 31,347 Alcohol-Induced 24,518 Illicit Drugs (2000) 17,0004 Homicide 16,799 Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) 9,406 Viral hepatitis 7,694 Cannabis (Marijuana) 0 1 Based on the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision, Second Edition, 2004, except for "lack of health insurance" and "cannabis" 2 "Drug induced" include both legal and illicit drugs. 3 Wilper, Andrew P., et al., "Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults," American Journal of Public Health (Washington, DC: American Public Health Association, December 2009), Vol. 99, No. 12 4 Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, (March 10, 2004), G225 Vol. 291, No. 10, 1242. Source: Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Jiaquan Xu, M.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Arialdi M. Minino, M.P.H.; and Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D., "Deaths: Final Data for 2009," Division of Vital Statistics (Atlanta, GA: Centers for Disease Control), Vol. 60, Number 3, Dec. 29, 2011 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf Wilper, Andrew P.; Woolhandler, Steffie; Lasser, Karen E.; McCormick, Danny; Bor, David H.; & Himmelstein, David U., "Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults," American Journal of Public Health (Washington, DC: American Public Health Association, December 2009), Vol. 99, No. 12 http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-ad... let's ban fast food and cigarettes while we're at it. fucking killer man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So, lax gun laws are not for resisting government over reach but are justified by some sort of wild spirit reasoning. When you are in your 30's having a girlfriend who has a car is not really high up on things to brag about on the internet btw. OH i forgot we know each other outside of an internet forum, ya got me br0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 How are arms control and public health related? Not only on the internet, but as a adult in general owning a car is not really high status in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injury Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realism Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 mushroom tea party, maybe. let's ban fast food and cigarettes while we're at it. fucking killer man. Check dat image location man. And there's a difference between guns and fast food/cigarettes. No one killed by a gun, aside from suicides, woke up and thought "I am going to make the conscious choice to get shot today, knowing that it might impact my overall wellbeing down the line." Apples and oranges...it's whatever though...we're not going to agree. I spy aod lurking. ProgunRonPaulwalloftextincoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango 24 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 does your girlfriend's car still have training wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Owning a car is the fucking tops. I'm sorry you expect young pussy to come with amenities. Dat image location could have been anywhere. I agree with a lot of shit I don't identify myself with. I live in the grey area. And here we need guns to protect us from extremists. Like the "white asshole" who preys on defenseless children and takes his own life. There is absolutely NO guaranteed way to prevent a crazy person from acting out. But there is a surefire way to limp-dick honest civilians when it comes to bringing a knife to a gun fight. Outlaw guns. Criminals are known to obey laws. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPS Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 A Tea Party image. Neat! I too have a provocative Internet graphic to back up my point. ...And I'm not even particularly opposed to handgun ownership. But clearly, the laws are loose enough as it stands that they're a huge issue. Anyway, I'll hop off the Crossfire train... Lol west germany. :rolleyes: And Japan... where there is a complete gun ban, more deaths than Switzerland which is one of most armed country in the world Rip for the dead people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 . Shit like this would happen less often, gun crime would go down, and that's an undeniable fact. perhaps we should also ban pot, crack, meth and heroine. i hear that prohibition works very well at keeping these things out of peoples hands. hell, they might stop getting the stuff in maximum security federal prisons. maybe they should also make schools 'gun free safe zones' and prohibit firearms within 1000 feet of the school. we could also pass over 20,000 firearms laws to solve these sorts of problems. maybe we could pass carry bans and prohibit gun ownership in major cities like washington DC and chicago in order to rid those places of murders and crime. wait... maybe we could also snap our fingers and remove dangerous 3000 lb death machines from america known as cars. over 40,000 people a year die on america's highways due to them. we need to also get rid of the death traps that are bath tubs. you much more likely to be killed in your bath tub than by a gun. swimming pools also need to go. pools of death is what they are. i'd take the gun control position seriously if there was an example of prohibiting activities and items and ridding the world bad things that happen while using said items. however, since its quite apparent prohibition on anything never works, i dont see why people think a bunch of knee jerk bed wetting is going to actually solve a problem. people think if you put a 'no gun' sticker on a door, that an active shooter will not enter. or if you pass a law that requires gun owners to jump to hoops, x, y, and z, that this is going to some how limit guns in the hands of people who do nothing but ignore said hoops to begin with. in 1925 a psycho got peeved off. instead of using the 'most efficient killing device' (guns) he used home made explosives he put together on his farm and blew up a school and killed 125 people. since they cant keep drugs out of the hands of maximum security prisons, there is absolutely no way you can keep 200 million guns out of the hands of psycho's. I do agree that if guns didnt exist, no one would be shot with them. that is also like saying if humans didnt exist, they wouldnt harm the environment. the prospects of getting rid of either are a bit unfathomable. if the rhetoric makes you feel good and makes you feel like you are 'doing something!' thats cool. but remember one thing...pretty much the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. direct your anger at the criminal, not the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 if the rhetoric makes you feel good and makes you feel like you are 'doing something!' thats cool. but remember one thing...pretty much the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. direct your anger at the criminal, not the tool. /closethread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Lol west germany. :rolleyes: And Japan... where there is a complete gun ban, more deaths than Switzerland which is one of most armed country in the world Rip for the dead people. bump this. Interesting no one is talking about the cities and states in the US with the most restrictive gun laws are the highest on the crime ladder. DC, chicago, california, NJ, NY, etc You dont hear to much about the mass shooting sprees in MT where there are approximately 29 guns per household and where gun laws are very lax. Anyone with half a brain could easily see its not how easy guns are to obtain, its psycho's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It is not that I expect young pussy to come with anything it is that as a man, I want a relationship with a woman, not a child. I would also like to argue with at least some semblance of a adult conversation. There are all kinds of ways to prevent crazy people from acting out, I do not think that the argument needs to be framed in absolutes but rather in the best possible outcome. I do not buy the criminal argument, it separates "criminals" from everyone else in a way that does not jive with reality. Many people who commit murder with a gun are not criminals before the fact. Also, it totally negates the "armed people to resist government" argument because if there is any group that will always be able to arm themselves it is those involved in legitimate armed struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The good guy with a gun line is bullshit especially when discussing public shootings. These things always end with either suicide or law enforcement. Even though all the dudes at the range get a softy thinking about blowing away some nut at the mall the fact remains that they are more likely to be the nut than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 you can't rationalize with emotional people. they don't operate on facts. people break laws.... like spraying paint on a wall... you do know that's illegal, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It is not that I expect young pussy to come with anything it is that as a man, I want a relationship with a woman, not a child. I would also like to argue with at least some semblance of a adult conversation. There are all kinds of ways to prevent crazy people from acting out, I do not think that the argument needs to be framed in absolutes but rather in the best possible outcome. I do not buy the criminal argument, it separates "criminals" from everyone else in a way that does not jive with reality. Many people who commit murder with a gun are not criminals before the fact. Also, it totally negates the "armed people to resist government" argument because if there is any group that will always be able to arm themselves it is those involved in legitimate armed struggle. how about the "GUN CONTROL IS THE LOGICAL STARTING POINT FOR GENOCIDE" argument? this whole conversation is stupid. i'm gonna go play call of duty (zing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Many people who commit murder with a gun are not criminals before the fact. I do not know if this is true, but i do know this: Will a gun law with a much less severe penalty prevent someone hell bent on mass murdering people? (carrying the most severe penalty in the american legal system) Do you really think if someone 'isnt a criminal' that is someone really wants to use a gun to shoot a bunch of people, they will sort of stop and have a Q+A with themselves and ask whether it is worth breaking a very minor law to break a law that carries a punishment that is much more severe? Are they going to say: "gee, im going to go shoot up this building with people in it, but, shit, wait, i cant do that because its illegal to possess a firearm on school property. DARN!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So, you are concerned that the government is gearing up for genocide and you think that simply owning a gun is some form of resistance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango 24 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 the fact is with the amount of guns already out there it would be extremely hard to convince people who already own guns, ostensibly for protection, to hand theirs in. a buy back scheme would only do so much. The entrenched criminality in the US is going to counteract any attempt to control gun violence. It might stop people who aren't stable getting their hands on them but that will only prevent tragedies like this, not the everyday tragedies of shooting deaths. I am for gun control, my country went through several high profile shootings that saw a change to gun laws and for the better I think. On the other hand, the cultural differences between Australia and the USA are vast so what worked here isn't necessarily going to do the trick across the pond. Gun control still needs to be implemented at some point to save future generations from going through the same thing. Eventually all those guns in the hands of criminals will be come unusable but without gun control laws they will be able to simply get another. Basically, the fact that the 2nd amendment was placed in the constitution pretty much created this problem. good luck finding a viable solution that pleases anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 If we are going to confine the argument to simply being about these mass shootings I think that gun control would probably work well. This case for example, dude stole the guns from his mom, not exactly some sort of hell bent master mind at work, just a super sick person enabled to commit a horrific crime by the easy access to firearms. The drug line is bullshit too, no one ever kills another person by smoking them out with crack. The graffiti line is beyond the fucking pale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The good guy with a gun line is bullshit especially when discussing public shootings. These things always end with either suicide or law enforcement. Even though all the dudes at the range get a softy thinking about blowing away some nut at the mall the fact remains that they are more likely to be the nut than anything else. I believe you are mistaken. are law enforcement shooting bad guys not good guys? the facts are this: 50% of the time, some good guy intervened. of this 50% 2/3 were civilians. 1/3 were uniformed and on duty LE. the other 50% of the time they generally shot themselves or bailed and gave up without any resistance after the fact. interestingly enough, of the police interventions, 7 out of 10 times it was a LONE officer that was able to handle the situation. If these 'nuts' at the 'range' were in fact the psycho's are you idiotically suggest, i can say one thing. a lot more people would be dead. if an actual trained person went psycho, there would be more carnage. the people that do this are bat shit crazy and loony. they get the idea in their head and run with it. for instance, if the batman shooter would not of been using a 'dangerous 100 round beta high capacity whatever the fuck name the anti rights people want to come up with' and would of been using quality USGI or pmags, there probably wouldnt of been a malfunction ending the spree. I do know one thing. it is impossible to keep guns out of bad peoples hands by writing words on paper. i know another thing, the only people who abide by those rules are the people who dont break the law in the first place. who would never murder someone to begin with. so what you create are these neat little victim disarmament zones. where you have disarmed victims. look at the numbers. most of these sprees are in schools, close to 60%. schools have gun bans and stiff penalties. gun free zones. why dont the criminals pay attention to this? nearly all of the rest of the sprees are in areas where guns are either not allowed, where they are locked up, or places like church where people dont generally feel the 'need' to protect themselves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 If we are going to confine the argument to simply being about these mass shootings I think that gun control would probably work well. This case for example, dude stole the guns from his mom, not exactly some sort of hell bent master mind at work, just a super sick person enabled to commit a horrific crime by the easy access to firearms. ok, so which gun law will prevent a loony from stealing a firearm from an assumably sane and legal gun owner? i'd love to hear what you come up with. wait, you mean the laws against theft, didnt stop the guy from stealing the gun? and the law against murder didnt stop him from shooting people? hmmm. wait. we just need to re criminalize these things. problem solved! The drug line is bullshit too, no one ever kills another person by smoking them out with crack. The graffiti line is beyond the fucking pale. its not bullshit. your point is some scribbling on a peice of paper by some people in washington dc, a prohibition law, will achieve its intended goal. ie. keeping an object out of someones possession. if it does work, how do you have access to drugs? why are they in max security prisons, the most controlled environment in the country? and how can 200 million guns be kept in the right place? what about all the 'legal' ways of obtaining stuff, when you can just go down to a street corner somewhere and get what you want or hell...order it on the silk road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Perhaps I was not clear, while there are good guys intervening here they are not doing so with guns. Yes, I make a separation between law enforcement and the general population. The gun being fired at the range is far more likely to kill a innocent person than a criminal. Most likely the user. Perhaps I misspoke about the guys down at the range but I can not think of a single instance of one of these shootings being stopped by a hero with a concealed carry. Is there one? We live in a society of laws, of course they can make a difference. I do not think that gun control is the entirety of the answer but I do think it is part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Perhaps I was not clear, while there are good guys intervening here they are not doing so with guns. Yes, I make a separation between law enforcement and the general population. The gun being fired at the range is far more likely to kill a innocent person than a criminal. Most likely the user. Perhaps I misspoke about the guys down at the range but I can not think of a single instance of one of these shootings being stopped by a hero with a concealed carry. Is there one? We live in a society of laws, of course they can make a difference. I do not think that gun control is the entirety of the answer but I do think it is part of it. your first line proves the most important point. most active shooters cease or kill themselves at the VERY FIRST SIGN OF RESISTANCE. given that CCW permits are generally held by under 5% of a given population of a given state, and active shooter events are more rare in the grand scheme of things that rattle snake bite deaths, its not surprising unarmed people are able to subdue someone. i take it you care not to comment on the fact that 2/3 of the time civilians subdue the attacker... do you think you can carry around a cop in your pocket? if you had to be in a gun fight, would you rather be able to shoot back or would you rather be a sitting duck? so i cannot use 'good guys' to mean someone with a gun in general? i meant it specifically people killing crazy motherfuckers murdering other people are GOOD GUYS. it doesnt matter if they have a badge or not. i believe congresswoman giffords attacker was subdued by a CCW holder without using his firearm. he claims that being armed gave him the courage to engage. guns are not always the answer. there are 4 safety rules. for instance, if you cannot get a clear shot or if you engage an active shooter but risk killing innocents because they are in your line of fire, its best not to engage or you will be responsible for murdering innocents. your line about guns at 'guns ranges being more likely to kill their users than criminals' is the most hysterical thing ive ever heard. this sounds like your position: and why do yall always speak in these silly abstract ideas? i have yet to hear one solid plan that would solve your problem other than...'we just need more gun control' give me something specific that needs to be put into law that already isnt, that will create utopia. go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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