This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 What's your take on the North Korea conflict? If they invade South Korea as they claim to intend to, we will have no choice but to move in and fight them, as South Korea is one of our allies. My Government teacher thinks this could be good for America though. Not only will it give us a chance to strenghten our relationship with South Korea, but it might open up the opportunity to break relations with China. The U.S. owes so much money to China, that if we were to crush them, or let them be crushed by North Korea when they step in to stop the fighting (as the ycertainly will try to), then we eliminate ther debt that we're in to them. Also, that will boost the U.S. economy greatly as we will have an increased need for factory workers to produce weapons and ammunition, and we will also need to build factories and hire workers to make our own products instead of importing them from China. This can go one of two ways...either we step in and survive, or we get crushed. One has to question whether or not President Obama will resort to using Nuclear weapons against North Korea or not. Will this cause them to open Nuclear fire on us? Will it cause other countries and nations to open Nuclear fire on us? One can only hope that these nations that have Nuclear capabilities will NOT launch against us due to how much damage we can cause to them before their missiles hit us. What's your take on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nobody has taken North Korea seriously until somewhat recently. If they invade South Korea then all of their propaganda based on Kim-Jong-Il's delusions about how they're a self sufficient and strong nation will be proven to be a lie. Im my opinion, North Korea would be like a company with a madman for a CEO (Howard Hughes comes to mind). The middle management is completely out of control and telling the CEO what he wants to hear ("Everything is great, sir, we're meeting all quotas and deadlines, the workers are happy, etc.") so they can maintain their lavish lifestyles, when in reality all the workers are starving and suffering under ridiculous rules and dogma and threat of penalty of death...yet they can't see their way clear to do better for themselves and either quit or vote the turkeys out...by force, if necessary. The other companies (especially the one next door) are looking at this situation while shaking their heads and saying it's wrong and it's horrible and how can those poor bastards live like that, but there's not a lot they can do because middle management has guns and will fight off any intervention or hostile takeover attempts. All they can do is wait till the workers get sick and tired enough to cast their lot to fate and do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nobody has taken North Korea seriously until somewhat recently. If they invade South Korea then all of their propaganda based on Kim-Jong-Il's delusions about how they're a self sufficient and strong nation will be proven to be a lie. Im my opinion, North Korea would be like a company with a madman for a CEO (Howard Hughes comes to mind). The middle management is completely out of control and telling the CEO what he wants to hear ("Everything is great, sir, we're meeting all quotas and deadlines, the workers are happy, etc.") so they can maintain their lavish lifestyles, when in reality all the workers are starving and suffering under ridiculous rules and dogma and threat of penalty of death...yet they can't see their way clear to do better for themselves and either quit or vote the turkeys out...by force, if necessary. The other companies (especially the one next door) are looking at this situation while shaking their heads and saying it's wrong and it's horrible and how can those poor bastards live like that, but there's not a lot they can do because middle management has guns and will fight off any intervention or hostile takeover attempts. All they can do is wait till the workers get sick and tired enough to cast their lot to fate and do something about it. Exactly. Governments are too scared to intervene because NK has a million man army...literally, and they are not afraid to use it. Couple that with their recent display of nuclear capabilities, and hostile intentions to use these nukes and these governments that have the power to stop NK back off into the shadows even further. If NK troops spill into and attack the DMZ (demilitarized zone) in Korea that we have 25,000 US troops stationed at...war will break out. The US, SK, and possibly China will all attack NK. Nukes will be launched from countries that have them, and the dawn of WWIII might be imminent. This is fire that these governments are playing with, and everybody is wondering whether they know how not to get burned or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 The one thing that sort of makes sense is that the DPRK knows that they wouldn't stand a chance in a nuclear exchange, so the "these are for self-defense" line has a ring of truth to it even if only because they believe it. The problem is that no one's really looking to bomb them, and if someone did want to wipe them off of the map it would be because they did something monumentally stupid on their part. They keep talking about "Western aggression" but THEY invaded South Korea...if they were the pacifists they claimed to be then they'd pull a few hundred thousand troops off of the border and actually try to settle some of their grievances with the rest of the world...but they aren't, and that's why no one takes them seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 The one thing that sort of makes sense is that the DPRK knows that they wouldn't stand a chance in a nuclear exchange, so the "these are for self-defense" line has a ring of truth to it even if only because they believe it. The problem is that no one's really looking to bomb them, and if someone did want to wipe them off of the map it would be because they did something monumentally stupid on their part. They keep talking about "Western aggression" but THEY invaded South Korea...if they were the pacifists they claimed to be then they'd pull a few hundred thousand troops off of the border and actually try to settle some of their grievances with the rest of the world...but they aren't, and that's why no one takes them seriously. Their like the kid that threatens violence and just stand there looking stupid. BUT, nobody really knows the power that they have within...the damage that they can cause. I think that if they really want to, they can DESTROY South Korea...forcing us to go to war with them. Well, technically speaking if South Korea is destroyed we can stay out of war with the North, but then we look bad to our OTHER allies. It's a really touchy subject. I know that if we do go to war with Noth Korea...things will not be good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountain dew Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I was pretty surprised that I didn't see this topic before now since it has been in the news for a few days... I was considering starting a topic on it, but you beat me to it. I don't know what we should do about this, I think if there was an easy answer we would have already done something about it; there seems to be no easy solution to this problem... Only time will tell what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Yeah,,,do nothing, wait for Kim Jong-Il to die and see what happens from there. Unfortunately, that kind of fucks over about 20 million people but considering the alternative... The DPRK has tested a nuke before (in 2006). The reason the world needs to watch them is because the yield on this one was considerably bigger, but judging by the response (practically the whole world condemned the test) there's not too much to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I somehow don't think NK would last very long against SK these days. Sure, they'd mow down a couple of people near the border but eventually they'd hit a major internet trunk and all the Korean world of warcraft players (99% of everyone above 3 years of age in SK) would lose connection. NK would then be promptly destroyed by angry warcraftfags who lost their L70 ORC SHAMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is one of those threads where Christo-f usually steps in with some real information. Hopefully he'll do that, I trust what he has to say about these things. The DPRK army is about 20% of the able bodied North Korean males...even though a good portion of their military tech is outdated, the last thing South Korea wants is to get run through by a million angry, brainwashed troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 North Korea based it's entire government, culture, and economy on war and military. The people are brainwashed and every able bodied man has military training. Only the strongest or best men are kept in it's regular army. To top that off North Korea's citizens are completely oblivious to their situation through strict control of any outside information and brainwashed into blind patriotism. They have a lot of underground tunnels and have prepared as best they can to fight indefinitely. The only subway they have was built so far underground it's all most useless to go down that far to ride it. We lost a lot of men just pushing them back to the border or Demilitarized zone in the 50's and it won't be another Iraq, it's no desert and not that easy. They easily could fuck shit up over there, South Korea's capital Seoul is just a stones throw from the border and could be easily destroyed with conventional weaponry from that distance. Believe it or not with all our money and military might, any warfare in that region would not be pretty or short at all, and would rape the worlds economy. That's why we haven't finished the job and invaded in the last 50 years of taunting and they know it. They regularly kidnap Japanese and South Korean citizens and even snagged a few B list celebrities. The only reason they have existed this long is they use the fear situation to blackmail the rest of the world. Without Chinese and Russian support their economic situation has become very dire and war/blackmail may be the only way for them to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Mercer's right...we're all right so far. This shit is so complicated that it's not even funny. NK is saying that an attack on SK is imminent...which means us getting dragged into it is...imminent. :gulp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban art 415 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 north korea won't do anything, and china cannot afford to get involved anymore, their economy runs off the us. even if they have a million man army, it's been proven in combat now adays that numbers won't matter, i'm in the marine corp and am confident that we can take this million man army.....ooohrah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 north korea won't do anything, and china cannot afford to get involved anymore, their economy runs off the us. even if they have a million man army, it's been proven in combat now adays that numbers won't matter, i'm in the marine corp and am confident that we can take this million man army.....ooohrah The point at hand here is not whether we can or cannot win a battle against North Korea. The point at hand here is what will come from a battle with them? You have to remember that if by some chance we do end up fighting North Korea...nukes could be launched...by both sides of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperface Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree that waiting is the best action at the moment. However if the sanctions/embargos against NK work too well and start eating away the upper class/military infrastructure, NK might want to invade south korea rather than wait for their own demise. In the case of a full scale war, I don't think SK would really stand a chance even with US troops in the country. Then again it depends on how badly US is ready to get involved. Fact is, war with NK would definitely cost a lot more soldiers' lives than what US has been ready to sacrifice recently. Bad thing is, NK isn't far from stone age. It'd take more than precision bombing or couple of nukes to motivate Kim to surrender, as they don't exactly take care of their own citizens anyway. A war would be disastrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power Bill Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 i am in Tokyo- GULP is right. Wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Viperface is exactly right. There's so many things at stake right now. If we end up getting into a war wirh North Korea, it will be very bad for us. Not only will they fight to the death, but they won't hesitate to use their newly developed weapons. Not to mention they have a lot of hatred for the US because we've been in a 56 - year stalemate with them as the war with North Korea never actually ended. They've known for 56 years that we can't spare teh resources to attack them and they know it. Also, as you said Kim isn't going to surrender. He's reaching teh age where he knows he won't last much longer in the first place, so why should he care if a war kills him? I think that this is getting bad, and it's getting bad fast. Maybe Obama should start preparing for the worst...they already put the US military on standy. Power Bill: now might be the time to move to Hawaii or someplace like that...things could get ugly over there really quick. Good luck man, and stay safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Viperface is exactly right. There's so many things at stake right now. If we end up getting into a war wirh North Korea, it will be very bad for us. Not only will they fight to the death, but they won't hesitate to use their newly developed weapons. Not to mention they have a lot of hatred for the US because we've been in a 56 - year stalemate with them as the war with North Korea never actually ended. They've known for 56 years that we can't spare teh resources to attack them and they know it. We could turn NK into a parking lot but South Korea doesn't want that. The odds are good that if there were an invasion, a very large portion of the NK Army would take one look at how the South Koreans are living and say "Wait a fucking minute...we've been lied to for how long now?" The DPRK is one of the longest con jobs in history. As soon as people start seeing what's going on in the rest of the world first hand, then they're going to wise up pretty quick. I'm not a big fan of capitalism, but letting your country starve because you don't want to admit you're wrong is obviously the greater evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 We could turn NK into a parking lot but South Korea doesn't want that. The odds are good that if there were an invasion, a very large portion of the NK Army would take one look at how the South Koreans are living and say "Wait a fucking minute...we've been lied to for how long now?" The DPRK is one of the longest con jobs in history. As soon as people start seeing what's going on in the rest of the world first hand, then they're going to wise up pretty quick. I'm not a big fan of capitalism, but letting your country starve because you don't want to admit you're wrong is obviously the greater evil. Damn...that was logical and pilotically correct as all hell. I honestly do not know what to say to that. Nice, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperface Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 The odds are good that if there were an invasion, a very large portion of the NK Army would take one look at how the South Koreans are living and say "Wait a fucking minute...we've been lied to for how long now?" I was thining about this as well and it's probably one reason why NK hasn't attacked. If they do attack, I'm afraid this might also be enough of a reason to attempt to bomb South Korean cities to bedrock before occupying forces can actually see the standards of living. I remember reading somewhere that they have mad artillery aimed at Seoul at all times, just ready to level the whole city down when the green light flashes. However NK troops might still be exceptionally vulnerable to any well-placed propaganda. And it's impossible to destroy every building of every city anyway, there's still the suburbia, countryside etc. Then again they might be just told that NK is suffering only because of UN sanctions or just lie them about how the enemy has been sabotaging shit for ages, or how we're just living off of 3rd world slavery and exploiting the proletariat of poor countries etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 I did not know the part about the artillery aimed at Seoul. Interesting. Apparently things are calming down a little...it's "supposedly" a "scare tactic" by Kim. I personally think he's waiting for our guard to drop again so he can hit us. He knows that we've had a week to prepare for the worst already...attacking now when we're 100% ready is a death sentence for Koreans, as we'll turn all of Korea into a hole in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaken1993 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I think it is dumb on both sides if nk attacks us with their missles or invades sk we will help sk then china will get upset and then russia will jump in i mean this is what the elites want man if nk continues to threaten other countries and or invade sk the us has precedence to invade nk and take it over then that will cause other powers to get mad and thus will be the precursor to ww3 just a while ago china started building up its naval fleet incase they did invade sk and we attack and russia started doing the same thing i think we are forcing Russia into conflict i mean were tryna control the ME and we support Israel which will eventually attack Iran and Palestine IMO and if they attack Iran Russia will jump in and then well jump in because were essentially allies with Israel plus we keep positioning missle and military bases in countries near russia jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Viperface is exactly right. There's so many things at stake right now. If we end up getting into a war wirh North Korea, it will be very bad for us. Not only will they fight to the death, but they won't hesitate to use their newly developed weapons. Not to mention they have a lot of hatred for the US because we've been in a 56 - year stalemate with them as the war with North Korea never actually ended. They've known for 56 years that we can't spare teh resources to attack them and they know it. Also, as you said Kim isn't going to surrender. He's reaching teh age where he knows he won't last much longer in the first place, so why should he care if a war kills him? I think that this is getting bad, and it's getting bad fast. Maybe Obama should start preparing for the worst...they already put the US military on standy. Power Bill: now might be the time to move to Hawaii or someplace like that...things could get ugly over there really quick. Good luck man, and stay safe. There is not going to be a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 There is not going to be a war. You're sure of thisss....how..exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaken1993 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 he watched the msm tell him and found out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I think it is dumb on both sides if nk attacks us with their missles or invades sk we will help sk then china will get upset and then russia will jump in Russia jumping in to a war involving North Korea is unlikely at best. It doesnt stand to gain much by doing that. Korea falls under China's sphere of influence. So if anybody is going to jump in its going to be China but even then that's up for debate. China in the 1950's is a different country from China today. As far as us trying to provoke Russia into a conflict i think youre interpreting the moves the US is making in a skewed way. The US doesnt need to provoke Russia into a conflict because i dont think the US considers Russia as an equal. If anything its the US consolidating its power in the aftermath of the Cold War in order to have bases and friendly nations in place should something like that occur again be it against Iran,Venezuela, China, or what have you. That being said, if you guys havent already you should read up on the Korean War. It may answer some questions as to whats going on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaken1993 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 but i heard that russia was now in good with china and with the whole fact that they were building up their armies and shit idk i think though that china wouldnt go to war with the us yet yet because we owe them so much in debt that it would be a waste but i think lil kimmy is just blowing off some steam and tryna be look at as much of a threat as other countries and the msm is pumping it to continue to fear mongur so if something does happens and we invade or put our hands in nk shit the puplic would be behind it... maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaken1993 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 i think china wont get in a war with us becuase we owe them s much in debt it would be a waste to loose that money and gain an enemy i just think kimmy is tryna make other countries see that hes as powerfull as them and the msm keeps pumping the story to fear monger people so if some shit does happen the public would be behind a war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 I think this is all going to blow over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaken1993 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 i think its mostly just fear mongering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This is my Username Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's North Korea being...well, being...North Korea. They're just trying to scare people into thinking they're so badass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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