Obama: The New George Bush

[SOAKER]

[Smart]

The country is divided and the republicans knew they were probably going to lose the election, so as angelofdeath suggests, this was an attempt to stir up the conservative and libertarian base, and a stab at trying to get some independent voters. For the most part its worked and a lot of the traditional conservative political ideologies are becoming the base for a lot of new and incumbent politicians talking points.

 

I tend to think it was just a repeat strategy from 1992. Regan's only 2 bankable assets when he left office were his 'good looks' and unwavering anti-socialism. I strongly suspect there wasn't much else when he was elected. Bush, shortly departed as Director of the CIA, was surely pulling the real strings. The secret hostage negotiation before the election that led directly to the Iran/Contra arms scandal, Greneda, the invasion of Panama, the ivasion of Iraq (and crack)... they all stink of the same hand.

 

When people realized that what 'trickled down' amounted to nothing, the war on drugs was a failure and communism was mostly defunct, the GOP needed something quick to divert the stern gaze and Dan Quayle was busted. They put on a half hearted campaign and the Democrats took over w/ Clinton.

 

Then the Dems balanced the budget and eliminated the deficit (ZERO!), bombed the shit out of Kosovo and got blowjobs. Probably sometime during the blowjobs they felt like everybody loved them so they tried to float Gore/Lieberman.

 

Meanwhile, the combination of Liebermans burgeoning party betrayal and the rise of talk radio (perhaps the demise of the 'equal time' law) had come together to help convince a demoralized GOP base that they weren't idiots who sidestepped laws when they wanted, started a fight with anyone who looked at us sideway (or looked sideways in general) and spent money like they owned a fucking printing press. It was (and IS) widely claimed that despie direct legislation (sometimes completely reversing GOP strategies) it was, in fact, Reaganomics that put the country 'right'. I'd just like to remind everyone right now that Reaganomics brought us the K-car.

 

K-Car:

 

The stage was set for Bush II, the Cheney years. You guys were undoubtedly there for that, where they started a war, sidestepped a bunch of laws (this time mainly trampling on our civil rights) and spent money like, well, you know.

 

So, expect another 3 years at least of people claiming Obama fucked up the economy back in '02 when was a community organizer and he should never have got us in these fucking wars, also his daughters are getiing 'hot' (somebody's gonna say it)...

 

Soaker, sort of better recently but overall you only get about 35% of the type of soviet socialist propaganda posters that I really like. Step it up or cut it out.

[angelofdeath]

say what you want about those old k cars... but from my auto technician perspective... those cars were hard to kill. regular maintenance and a timing belt or two... those cars would flat out LAST. those old dodges were much better than chevy or ford at the time.

[Smart]

I watched at least 4 of those cars just fall flat apart. Most American cars did back then, Toyota and Suburu ruled mid-80's longevity. Hondas too... A bunch of cop departments drove the Dodge Diplomats which were kind of a glorified K car but they jumped right on the Ford LTD and Chevy Bonneville again by 1990. Also I would like to point out how few K-cars you see on the road as compared to 80's IROC Camaros and those things were utter crap. Hell, I see more Pinots than K-cars.

[angelofdeath]

fall apart how?

you must remember, that iroc's were twice as much as a K car. i've inspected and worked on many old 80's corvettes and camaro's, and they are so junky. just as junky as a k car, compared to todays honda's, but the only thing the camaro's and corvettes have going for them is that people tended to take slightly better car of them then a junky k car.

 

toyota's did pretty good back then. compared to 90's and todays toyotas, they are junk though. toyota's were definitely above a K car, but im telling you, those K cars were the best american cars that were out at the time. and since honda didnt take off in reliability till the early 90's... enough said.

 

i used to work on an old lancer all the time that we referred to as 'the general.' this thing had been to hell and back. paint was flaking off due to years of washing with dish soap and scrub brushes. the woman drove around for years with ball joints falling out, cv boots ripped, and the top end of the engine sounding like diesel. she couldnt kill it. she gave it to someone, who brought it to me for inspection. i did all the inspection work. she ended up popping a hose, cooking the engine. i put a head and gasket on it, kept on driving it. she drove it for another couple years till she ran into a telephone pole with it.

 

and i guess i should clarify... all cars need work and maintenance. these cars were reliable, and easy to work on. and when i say 'bullet proof' or 'you couldnt kill it' im referring mainly to the bottom end of the engine.

[SOAKER]

First OF all THERE Is not a "CHEVY BONNEVILE" OK....ITS a Chevy Caprice... Or the Ford Crown Victoria or Mercury Grand Marquis....Chevy Bonnevile...Its a Pontiac Bonneville and it wasn't used by the government

 

Japanese cars are pieces of shit and if you buy one your un American, but I'd expect someone like SMART to be into that Jap shit...

[x5v1s]

bump free market capitalism.. best products win.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

http://www.vdare.com/roberts/091105_asia.htm

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=medww6KK_L4

 

If people are interested in getting a clue.

[SOAKER]

War crimes? What the fuck is a war crime? We gotta be nice to people that we want to kill? What liberal bullshit...

[fastZeetec302]

we gotta love everybody man! its that change we've been waiting for.

[Decyferon]

First OF all THERE Is not a "CHEVY BONNEVILE" OK....ITS a Chevy Caprice... Or the Ford Crown Victoria or Mercury Grand Marquis....Chevy Bonnevile...Its a Pontiac Bonneville and it wasn't used by the government

 

Japanese cars are pieces of shit and if you buy one your un American, but I'd expect someone like SMART to be into that Jap shit...

 

Japanese cars are probably the most reliable and best made cars you can get. American cars are well known for having cheap finished interiors and big unefficient engines. I'm not saying that I don't like American cars cos I certainly like some but cars made in Europe and Japan are far superior when it comes to build quality of the vehicle. Every single car show I have ever seen and every single review of American cars I have read states this.

[LEVEL 75 PALADIN]

First OF all THERE Is not a "CHEVY BONNEVILE" OK....ITS a Chevy Caprice... Or the Ford Crown Victoria or Mercury Grand Marquis....Chevy Bonnevile...Its a Pontiac Bonneville and it wasn't used by the government

 

Japanese cars are pieces of shit and if you buy one your un American, but I'd expect someone like SMART to be into that Jap shit...

 

American cars fucking suck, and YOU'RE and idiot.

[lord_casek]

Is Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty?

[Decyferon]

I have just listened to that speech Casek, and I don't really think the guy is on point.

 

The agreement to be signed in Copenhagen is all about the climate control, that speaker is just scare mongering. The transferral of wealth that he talks about is richer countries giving money to poorer countries to be used specifically to help improve the climate.

 

As for signing over sovereignty, that isn't what the copenhagen agreement is. It is an agreement between all the countries to do something about climate change, the fact that that may supercide the consititution is neither here nor there, it just means that the governemnt has agreed to do something about it, it doesn't mean that the US isn't going to be governed as it always has. The climate, and the future of the world and how we deal with carbon emmissions etc. is more important than the constitution and the Copenhagen agreement will have nothing to do with how America is run as a country, it is just an agreement to do something about the climate.

 

Obviously lots of people will use this scare tactic of America losing it's independence, but the US is one of the biggest contributors to the environmental situation in the world and the previous US government were so ignorant that they didn't sign up to any agreements to do something about it, so fair play to Obama if he signs this agreement

[Decyferon]

Also Lord Monkton or whatever his name is (I wont give him the respect to look into the spelling of his name) is in no way any kind of reputable source, he was advisor to Margaret Thatcher probably the worst leader the UK ever had and a disgusting piece of shit woman that I would gladly dance on her grave when she (thankfully) dies.

[lord_casek]

Also Lord Monkton or whatever his name is (I wont give him the respect to look into the spelling of his name) is in no way any kind of reputable source, he was advisor to Margaret Thatcher probably the worst leader the UK ever had and a disgusting piece of shit woman that I would gladly dance on her grave when she (thankfully) dies.

 

 

Has Anyone Read the Copenhagen Agreement?

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703574604574500580285679074.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#printMode

 

 

I agree about Thatcher. She has paintings in her house stolen from the Jews by her father

during WWII.....and she's proud of having them.

[fastZeetec302]

apparently the new fords coming out should be more or just as reliable as honda/any other jap car. im trying to remember where i read it. when i do ill post a link.

[nsmbfan]

Do you actually believe this? Just wondering.

 

well, sure. or else I wouldn't have bothered to type it.

 

you are born into ignorance. the sooner you find enlightenment, the sooner you realize we are all apart of the same life force. your existence matters as much as mine.

[nsmbfan]

bump free market capitalism.. best products win.

 

it's a form of indentured servitude. OH WAIT CAN'T HEAR ME OVER YOUR IPOD?

 

thought so... carry on.

[Mainframe]

well, sure. or else I wouldn't have bothered to type it.

 

you are born into ignorance. the sooner you find enlightenment, the sooner you realize we are all apart of the same life force. your existence matters as much as mine.

 

Right, I agree with that, I guess I just think it's cheesy and a little naive to apply this to humanity as a whole. I don't think I believe in progress (not to be confused with change). What people define as progress, or 'good' in general, is only defined relative to what is stagnant, what is 'bad.' The peaceful existence of all humans just seems to me like an absurd idea, though, I suppose paradoxically, it might be a necessary one.

 

/yesLSDmushroomsThizzlam

[lord_casek]

Anyone who studies the way of the Tao should know that both good and evil are codependent

and one could not exist without the other.

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

it's a form of indentured servitude. OH WAIT CAN'T HEAR ME OVER YOUR IPOD?

 

thought so... carry on.

 

the differance in the feudal system(aka capitalism or what-have-you) today is that your not stuck as an indentured servant..with enough motivation and drive you can do what you have to do to become part of the elite..but most are happy as sheeple..errr...indentured servants so it doesnt matter. As long as they have their beer, 8000 channel bigscreen with the game on, a house, IPOD, and steady pay to get by, life is goooooooooooood

[Mainframe]

Anyone who studies the way of the Tao should know that both good and evil are codependent

and one could not exist without the other.

 

Yep. This discussion could be a whole other thread.

 

also, "Progress is a comfortable disease" - e.e. cummings

[SOAKER]

Indentured servitude? Really? How can you compare working for some company say in retail or construction, with all of the government mandated programs and social services we have, to INDENTURED SERVITUDE? This servitude was basically a contract between laborer and owner, and although this type of contract labor could be abused, it does not mean it was or is an abusive practice. On the contrary this agreement afforded some opportunity that otherwise might not be available. Personally, I've worked and currently as a sub-contractor and I'm legally bound to abide by certain restrictions that are set forth in the contract that I've signed.

 

 

On the issue of Japanese vehicles verse American? Really there is no comparison, and as an American I'm going to advocate the use of American products, for those of you that are not American, then I understand your difference of opinion. But the fact is that American vehicles offer more power, more trucks, construction vehicles, delivery, tractor trailers, and are quickly moving to overtake japanese and european manufacturers in fuel economy. As a matter of fact a great deal of European autos are actually owned by American companies, and in addition the cost to maintain a German car in America is outrageous.

 

 

And when it comes to racing or power vs. cost, german, european or Japan can't hold a candle to American muscle.

[Decyferon]

but all the best super cars and sports cars are european, not denying they are fucking expensive but Italians and Germans kill the market and nothing that America has apart from maybe the Ford GT supercar comes close, also American cars are well known the world over for having cheap tacky plasticy interiors and big inefficient engines, I mean I love big old American cars they are design classic but to be able to squeeze 200BHP out of a huge 4 litre V8 is rubbish when the italians would be pushing 400-500bhp out of them

[angelofdeath]

its definitely inaccurate to compare capitalism to indentured servitude... to accurately debate this will require a new thread. but suffice it to say at present, that if a contract is entered into free of coercion, on peoples own free will, the contract is moral.

 

as for american vs japanese/imports... it depends what we are talking about. if you are talking about trucks, heavy equipment, speed, etc, hands down american beats import. if you are talking fuel economy, reliability, overall consumer satisfaction... hands down jap beats american. high end luxury, euro's are on top.

european cars like VW are much better than they used to be. used to be i would never think of owning one, but now, i MIGHT consider it. of course this is largely based on parts prices, weird problems and general problems related to working on them.

 

but lets not forget that there isnt really much of an 'american cars' vs 'japanese cars' etc. debate any more. its not clear cut.

as pointed out daimler has partnered with chrysler. ford was putting mazda engines and parts in theirs. chevy/gm was putting toyota engines/parts in their cars. hondas, toyota's vw's all have assembly plants in the US. and you'd be lucky to find a part on an 'american' car or truck that is actually stamped with a made in the USA stamp or sticker. most john deere's up to 50hp all have jap diesels. only the big tractors are even assembled in the US.

[nsmbfan]

Indentured servitude? Really? How can you compare working for some company say in retail or construction, with all of the government mandated programs and social services we have, to INDENTURED SERVITUDE? This servitude was basically a contract between laborer and owner, and although this type of contract labor could be abused, it does not mean it was or is an abusive practice. On the contrary this agreement afforded some opportunity that otherwise might not be available. Personally, I've worked and currently as a sub-contractor and I'm legally bound to abide by certain restrictions that are set forth in the contract that I've signed.

 

 

you have to work for money. money which you then use to sustain your life. this form of economic slavery means the slave has to provide food clothing and shelter for himself and his family.

 

much like INDENTURED SERVITUDE, whereas the land owner or "master" controls how much your "shared crop" is worth. he controls your time, your money, and invariably your life. he controls you... with money.

 

it's a way to keep the wealth consolidated and the public unaware under the guise of Freedom. so far it's the best way to control people... look around, almost nobody notices. they blame everything else but the root of the problem.

 

to find the correct answers, you must ask the correct questions.

 

it's ok that you don't understand this. it's better that you try though.

 

maybe off topic, but... do you know how to catch a wild pig?

[nsmbfan]

its definitely inaccurate to compare capitalism to indentured servitude... to accurately debate this will require a new thread. but suffice it to say at present, that if a contract is entered into free of coercion, on peoples own free will, the contract is moral.

 

 

contracts aren't written in plain english for a reason. it is by human creation, coerce.

 

and i never signed a contract when i was born into poverty, a single white male, right handed... no college scholarships... no trust fund... no powerful family members... I was born into this heaping pile of financial mess and been trying to make sense of it all for a good number of years now. turns out, money isn't real.

 

to me, money is just a means to an end. and without an end, what good is the money?

 

they convinced people that gold is the same as paper, made a tiny notation of that in history books, then effectively ROBBED whatever little remaining wealth the people actually had. and this is the world you grew up into.

[angelofdeath]

just to get this straight, you are equating being born into a laissez faire capitalist society, where you have to produce something to get something, with slavery?

[SOAKER]

The Ultimate Aero is an American-built mid-engine sports car by Shelby SuperCars more commonly known as SSC. The SSC Ultimate Aero,[1] is currently the fastest production car in the world, with a fastest recorded speed of 413 km/h (257 mph).[2] This speed was reportedly achieved during tests on September 13, 2007 in West Richland, Washington, United States and verified by Guinness World Records on October 9, 2007.[3] In 2004 the company‘s less powerful version called the Aero SC/8T was used in development but did not go into production.