Animal Liberation?

[WORDISM45]

I'm with Dawood's first post. His second post was a little bizarre though.

My understanding of the humpback situation is that they are no longer endangered and number upwards of 30,000, so the 1000-limit cull is around 3% of the population. Except whales travel in pods and get mad stressed when a pod member is killed, so more harm gets inflicted than just that to the ones killed.

Part of me says leave the fucking whales alone, it's bad enough they have to deal with the Navy's invasive super-sonar that fucks up their navigation abilities. Part of me shrugs because I don't have the energy to pursue every change I'd like to see in the world. Part of me doesn't know what to feel, because I eat fish, although I'm not aware of a specific instance in which I used a whale product.

 

are you seriosuly suggesting killing 3% of a wild species population that was on the brink of extinction until recently in one hunting season is ok?

[Petey Pablo]

My commie input.

The meat industry makes millions of money every year killing animals. The animals are no longer looked as creatures when they are killed for a corporation. BUT while my animal rights feelings are strong, i've grown up on meat and only have been vegetarian for a couple of years.

It was some of my familys culture to raise cows and kill them later as a source for food.

Thinks always have time to be educated and change.

[Stereotype V.0002]

if you want to eat meat it is all around you and a multi million dollar industry.

 

If you ONLY ate meat that you hunted and you never bought any... maybe I could find that acceptable....... but not bears, thats fucked up.

 

So buying meat is more acceptable than shooting an animal for meat(assuming you also buy meat at times, like everyone does)? In either case some poor little critter is going to get killed for my consumption, so whats the difference.... other than one animal spends its life in the mountains and fucking other animals, while the other spent its life in a pen living in its own shit. Also I don’t know if you guys have ever been to some of the rural areas of the US or Canada, but bear overpopulation has them eating out of dumpsters, eating yuppies on hikes, etc. And its not the white man that be moving in on their territory, because national forests and nature reserves and very rural areas have the same problems. Anyway, I don’t know if a deer getting hit by your saab is any better than me popping him is what I'm trying to say.

[Stereotype V.0002]

I hope you were kidding. The computer you used to make that post is a product of capitalism you ignorant fuck.

 

Do you mean to say you don’t sit around starbucks spending 50 dollars on coffee, wearing 500 dollars worth of trendy clothes, listening to your ipod, talking on your cellphone, and then bitch about teh evil capitalism to your equally enlightened friends? You just don’t GET IT, man!

[Mercer]

No the computer is a product of an advanced industrial society, "you ignorant fuck".

 

Which says what exactly even if your statement was true?

 

Maybe you can work in a sweat shop in china and make your own computer.:)

I hear there is an opening at a factory, and they abolished capitalism there.

[xrebelheartsx]

What is forcing your view on others?

 

I am not going to dish out a sermon every time my friends and family decide to eat a steak or lamb chop if that is forcing views.

 

that's exactly what i meant by "forcing my view". i won't do shit like that. but, if someone asks me a question about why i'm vegetarian, or why i disagree with animal testing, etc., i'll gladly tell them, and in great detail.

 

that said, thinking that it's ok to hunt these whales simply because they're not endangered anymore is ridiculous. what, do we allow them to be hunted until they reach the near-extinction level again? like i already said, if we continue down this course of wiping species off the face of the earth, it's only a matter of time before we're next in line.

 

 

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet" - Albert Einstein

[Dawood]

So buying meat is more acceptable than shooting an animal for meat(assuming you also buy meat at times, like everyone does)? In either case some poor little critter is going to get killed for my consumption, so whats the difference.... other than one animal spends its life in the mountains and fucking other animals, while the other spent its life in a pen living in its own shit. Also I don’t know if you guys have ever been to some of the rural areas of the US or Canada, but bear overpopulation has them eating out of dumpsters, eating yuppies on hikes, etc. And its not the white man that be moving in on their territory, because national forests and nature reserves and very rural areas have the same problems. Anyway, I don’t know if a deer getting hit by your saab is any better than me popping him is what I'm trying to say.

 

 

this is a 12oz. MILESTONE! i actually agree with you here...I just had some curry deer for dinner 2 nights ago and again today for lunch that a friend of mine killed and sent over.

I do think urban sprawl has something to do with it though, so I don't 100% agree with you.

I saw a deer family trapped between an interstate highway and the exit offramp a few days ago. For sure it's the white man movin' in....always has been. The question is....who's home is it. De whyte man or De Deer?

[Juan Fuentes]

we could start having less babies because the human cities are spreading like wildfire.

 

dont we all see how people live in buildings, one on top of another, packed in boxes, no space to relax like a big backyard...

 

I'm against population reduction, but i know it is enough and we should maintain the number of people like it is. multiplying will make it harder and more uncomfortable for everyone.

[Dawood]

we could start having less babies because the human cities are spreading like wildfire.

 

dont we all see how people live in buildings, one on top of another, packed in boxes, no space to relax like a big backyard...

 

I'm against population reduction, but i know it is enough and we should maintain the number of people like it is. multiplying will make it harder and more uncomfortable for everyone.

 

Yeah, whatever, I moved out of triple decker houses/projects etc. and moved into a Big suburban house with plenty elbow room , a big backyard and AND a front yard with a turbo grill, son to feed My wife and 5 KIDS! I realized that the rest of the world is SPACIOUS and

niggas don't need to live all sardined together unless they want to live on welfare or in some art space overpriced yuppie squat. The rest of us live in houses or in apt. complexes where we don't know our neighbors and don't even care to. I guess that's what it is being from the city and moving to the burbs living in east cupcake USA.

I have kids, man. Don't start telling dudes to stop having kids, that's ridiculous. I raise my kids as productive citizens of the earth. It's the people who keep having kids to be dependent on the govt. and hardly even bother with them that irritate me. THOSE people should stop having kids.

[WORDISM45]

no dawood think about it you and your wife turned a population of 2 into a population of 5 in one generation. We already have too many people to survive on this earth without cheap fossil fuel energy (eg everyone that lives in a city relies on cheap fuel to get the food they consume to their plates.) We are already at an unsustainable level of human population on this planet and if people keep doubling or more the population in each generation like you have then say bye bye to this beautiful planet we were gifted with.

[Blood Feast Island Man]

 

at one point in my life (about 7 years) i was vegetarian (a couple year stint as a vegan) butcher. eventually i just became a butcher.

 

i recognize the atrocities that exist, but i am more concerned with my dinner.

 

this idea pretty much permeates to the entirity of my thinking: self servantry.

 

I want that t shirt.

[Fist 666]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

GOD ONLY LOVES VEGANS

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I AM JUDGE AND JURY...

ARMED TO THE TEETH AND FULL OF FURY!

 

YOUR KIND IS GOING TO PAY...

AND IT WILL BE IN A DEADLY WAY!

 

TO KILL IS SIN.. SO WE'LL KILL YOU!

 

DUH!

 

THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS?

IS THE RIGHT TO ARM BEARS...

 

TEACH THEM MILITARISTIC TACTICS...

AND SEND THEM OUT IN PAIRS!

 

YAAAAA!!!!!

 

SO NOW WE COME PREPARED AGAINST YOUR INHUMAN RACE...

WITH OUR SKINNY LITTLE VEGAN ARMS WE'LL SMASH YOU IN THE FACE!

 

THE LACK OF PROTEIN DIET THAT KEEPS US IN "THE RIGHT"

MAKES US STARVE FOR BATTLE AND MURDER YOU IN A FIGHT!

 

YAAAAAA!!!!!!

[Dawood]

kind of bass ackwards thinking if that weren't a vegan parody. Kill humans not aminals!

[Stereotype V.0002]

this is a 12oz. MILESTONE! i actually agree with you here...I just had some curry deer for dinner 2 nights ago and again today for lunch that a friend of mine killed and sent over.

I do think urban sprawl has something to do with it though, so I don't 100% agree with you.

I saw a deer family trapped between an interstate highway and the exit offramp a few days ago. For sure it's the white man movin' in....always has been. The question is....who's home is it. De whyte man or De Deer?

 

I was talking about bears specifically and why I think its ok to hunt them in certain areas following the regulations, I would agree urban sprawl is a big factor in the turkeys and deer running around all the time. But I think human society and development takes precedent over adequate room to live for deer..... in other words Id rather have that nice 3000 sq foot house with a couple of acres in the woods and a trout stream in the back yard, even if that means bambi might end up homeless. If allah wanted deer living here instead of us living here in the suburbs, he would have obviously given them the nukes, and would have made us the ones getting hit by minivans.

[Dawood]

yeah, pretty much. I'm not against building things and living in them. Even if the deer has to get the shaft. I was joking with my who's home is it comment.

[Dawood]

no dawood think about it you and your wife turned a population of 2 into a population of 5 in one generation. We already have too many people to survive on this earth without cheap fossil fuel energy (eg everyone that lives in a city relies on cheap fuel to get the food they consume to their plates.) We are already at an unsustainable level of human population on this planet and if people keep doubling or more the population in each generation like you have then say bye bye to this beautiful planet we were gifted with.

 

 

I don't believe that for a second. I believe that everything is decreed by Allah (God) before it happens, according to his wisdom and that a person's sustenance is decreed for him and Allah can increase or decrease it for him or her based on the will of Allah. Some people get an over abundance of wealth and sustenance while others get a little.

Me and my family of 7 people most likely consume and live off less "energy" than some American families of 3 or 4...even 2. Not all families, but some. I don't believe that humans have the ability to kill the planet. Pollute it, yes, but absolutely kill it, not without extreme measures like the whole planet becoming an industrial city or polluted mega metropolis like in China, but we're far from that. There's waaaay to much undeveloped earth for that.

 

or a nuke...of course...

[xrebelheartsx]

see, i could argue my side of this, and my views on it until i'm blue in the face, but i know i'm in the minority (by far), and i won't be changing any minds.

 

i don't feel that man should have absolute dominion over the planet. i'm 110% against sprawl, and my anger with it grows every single time i see a dead deer on the side of the road (last i checked, the area i live in is #2 in the country when it comes to deer being hit by cars). we have a responsibility to the earth, first and foremost, and we've royally fucked that up.

 

i'll agree that it'd be next to impossible for us to destroy the planet with out extreme measures, but we can absolutely make it un-livable, and we're well on our way to that. the oceans are already polluted and warmed enough that species are dying off, the reality is there's probably species going extinct that we haven't even discovered yet. at what point do we kill off all the species in the ocean? at what point to we expand enough, and pollute enough that species of land animals start dropping off like flies? once the food supplies start disappearing, then what will we do?

 

i feel like this has kinda strayed from the animal liberation topic into more of an environmental one, but the two are connected, at least to some degree.

[WORDISM45]

Dawood: do you not realise if you take the stance that everything that happens is according to Allah's will and can not be any other way then no one is responsible for anything and anyone could do whatever the fuck they want and it would just be explained off as Allah's will.

 

Rebelheart: I agree with you completely and from what i have been hearing/reading wer are already in the early stages of species dropping off like flies

[xrebelheartsx]

yeah, we are, and it's a fucking shame. my pro-animal beliefs/views aside, it's absolutely appalling to me what we're doing to all these species, and the world in general.

[Dawood]

Dawood: do you not realise if you take the stance that everything that happens is according to Allah's will and can not be any other way then no one is responsible for anything and anyone could do whatever the fuck they want and it would just be explained off as Allah's will.

 

 

 

 

Nope, good thing Allah gave us an intellect and the ability to reason coupled with a sense of knowing right from wrong and on top of that a book of guidance to tell us what we ARE responsible for. Just because Allah created everything, knows everything before it happens doesn't mean he didn't create the fact that we CHOOSE our own actions. We're not forced to do anything, Allah has knowledge of everything beforehand, but that doesn't life responsibility from us. i don't see why it would.

[Cracked Ass]

I didn't say it was OK to kill 3% of a species that is no longer endangered.

I just mentioned the situation and the numbers.

I am a thoughtful person, in the sense that I'm seldom polarized and biased on issues. I look at both sides, if there is a legitimate other side. (For example, there's no case for thinking Bush is a good president.)

If you read my post again, you'll see that I say I have mixed feelings.

People who jump to absolutes bore me.

People who judge me absolutely based on one comment piss me off, then fade in my rearview, because I've found that they're seldom worth my time.

[MayorMeanBeans]

purple mushroom my brother like a lot of other people has a disease. even 25 years ago, he would have died in a day. today he takes three pills a day and is chillin.

 

animal testing saved his life. you said that human liberation is of a higher priority. so where do you stand on this.

 

i dont mean to call you out i just saw you were about bombing testing labs, and i was wondering if you saw the death of people like my brother as a consequence of that action, or not.

[smooth bruce]

purple mushroom my brother like a lot of other people has a disease. even 25 years ago, he would have died in a day. today he takes three pills a day and is chillin.

 

animal testing saved his life. you said that human liberation is of a higher priority. so where do you stand on this.

 

i dont mean to call you out i just saw you were about bombing testing labs, and i was wondering if you saw the death of people like my brother as a consequence of that action, or not.

 

Testing on animals in all likelihood didn't save your brother.

 

There is a crucial step between testing on animals and becoming a regulated life saving drug, its called extensive testing on humans first which in almost all cases makes the testing on animals redundant.

 

Furthermore the scenario you are describing for the vast majority of cases is a complete myth almost no animal testing is directly beneficial to life threatening human diseases with the very small exception of some multiple-government level programs aimed at aids/cancer/etc

 

Of course if testing on animals can be proven to directly benefit suffers of terminal or serious illness I would be for it and I think most people would be but for the majority of cases in the industry it is a myth and likewise for the majority the word 'testing' is virtually interchangeable with 'torture'

[El Mamerro]

So you're saying we should jump straight to human trials and skip the animal testing phase?

[Petey Pablo]

I hope you were kidding. The computer you used to make that post is a product of capitalism you ignorant fuck.

It's a product of Technology.

[smooth bruce]

So you're saying we should jump straight to human trials and skip the animal testing phase?

 

No I am just saying like all forms of institutionalized power it should be investigated. If there is a genuine reason to test a specific product on a specific animal (obviously I am only talking about serious medicine here and not makeups and bullshit) then sure it should be done and I would probably back it.

 

If however, as in a lot of cases, it is demonstrated that the testing (torture) of products on animals is completely pointless then steps should first be taken to ratify this within the framework and if once those are exhausted with no advance (which again is a lot of cases) well then smash the place up and burn it to the fucking ground while running away with the animals and I will tip my hat to you.

[El Mamerro]

Pretty much agreed on all counts. Except the smashing stuff, shit is super counter-productive to the cause.

[smooth bruce]

If you try to change laws, protest, etc and it doesn't work then it doesn't work.

 

If the power system supports and defends itself, like the relationship between government bureaucracy and corporations than you cannot work within it because there is no where further to go. At the very least you should break in and take the animals (without smashing/burning shit, although an argument that property damage is violence when compared to torturing animals would be a joke) if all other options have been tried.

[thecoldmidwest]

I'm all for testing/killing (non endangered) animals if it will save/help people.

 

People > Animals

[WORDISM45]

I'm all for testing/killing (non endangered) animals if it will save/help people.

 

People > Animals

 

are you basing this on religion or you think it for some other reason?