Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Boycotting and protest I am fully in favor of. It is definitely your right to voice your opinion against an offense and to make personal decisions as to how you conduct your own life, what products you consume, and with what people you want to associate with. But rioting and violence against others is beyond your rights as a citizen. I think what the Danish newspapers did was incredibly stupid, especially given the current global political climate. Whether they did it out of ignorance of Islamic law, or with the outright intent to insult, it was a dumb idea and I genuinely feel like you are right to feel insulted. But it's perfectly within their rights, and it doesn't justify any kind of violent act on your part. If you act according to a law that that you believe goes above the law of mankind, we are going to see a very, very serious conflict of issues here between two factions of mankind that can escalate into an unthinkably horrible situation. Please excercise good judgment before acting, for the best of us all. That said, I find it curious that Muslims do not believe in objects of worship or any kind of imagery of venerated figures, and they'll defend that belief with the same zealousness those non-Muslim worshippers defend their statues with. The importance of the non-existance of effigies is elevated to just about the same level; it's almost a kind of counter-worship. It seems to me that if the issue holds that amount of weight in Islam, then Muhammad's stature as a mortal man is elevated to the same degree of "holiness" as, say, the Virgin Mary in Catholicism. It's odd to see Muslims looking down on other religions for worshipping "idols", but then ascribe a level of importance to their own religious figures that is SO strong, you cannot even draw an image of them. Maybe I'm seeing differently, and the reason why religious imagery isn't allowed in Islam is precisely to avoid its followers falling into idolatry. If that is the case, then I don't see why it would be such a strong issue for a non-Muslim to not follow that rule. Dawood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUMPKIN ESCOBAR Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 :haha: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClueTwo Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Damn..I started a little online riot. Still haven't seen this comic that has instigated all the rage..My understanding is that the comic is actually from september of last year..Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Originally posted by ClueTwo@Feb 9 2006, 09:57 AM Damn..I started a little online riot. Still haven't seen this comic that has instigated all the rage..My understanding is that the comic is actually from september of last year..Interesting. Quoted post dude, there in this thread. Lonesome Cowboy BIll posted them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 http://www.mohammeddance.com/ Man, I love blasphemy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Bill Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ^^that's great... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbivore Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Don't know how reliable this source is, but if it's true this shit is getting out of control: bounties for bodies Taliban offers reward for killing of cartoonist (AFP) Updated: 2006-02-09 15:30 A top Taliban commander offered a reward of 100 kilograms of gold to anyone who kills the person responsible for "blasphemous" cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, the Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) reported. If someone killed the cartoonist responsible for the cartoons in Denmark, the "Taliban will give 100 kilograms (244 pounds) of gold," Mullah Dadullah said in a telephone call to AIP from an unknown location, the Pakistan-based private news agency reported on Wednesday. Dadullah also said the Taliban would give five kilograms of gold to anyone who killed a Danish, Norwegian or German soldier, AIP said. AIP said Dadullah was operating as chief commander of the Taliban waging an anti-government insurgency in Afghanistan. The agency quoted Dadullah as saying the Taliban's list of would-be suicide bombers had grown since the publication of the cartoons. Eleven demonstrators have been killed since Friday in violent protests over the cartoons in Afghanistan. *edited to show the whole story... El Mammero pretty much summed up my feelings about this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 rioting is one of the most counter-productive actions out there. my parents are now worried about me because i had a trip to copenhagen planned long before this..for the end of this month now i think "if there is a middle easterner on the plane i should probably get off of it" dawood it's sad that there aren't muslims out there saying "it is a fundamental misunderstanding of both cultures: westerners do not agree with muslim views on depicting muhammed, middle easterners do not agree with western views on freedom of expression..so let's stop rioting" instead you choose to defend their actions. this makes me think that muslims and the rest of the world are indeed on a path to mutual destruction weapon X and mams are on point here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi_Zahrah Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons Gwladys Fouché Monday February 6, 2006 Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today. The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny. In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten. Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them." The illustrator said: "I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy." "I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny." But the Jyllands-Posten editor in question, Mr Kaiser, said that the case was "ridiculous to bring forward now. It has nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons. "In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I did not ask for these cartoons. That's the difference," he said. "The illustrator thought his cartoons were funny. I did not think so. It would offend some readers, not much but some." The decision smacks of "double-standards", said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman for the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring, the umbrella group that represents 27 Muslim organisations that are campaigning for a full apology from Jyllands-Posten. "How can Jyllands-Posten distinguish the two cases? Surely they must understand," Mr Akkari added. Meanwhile, the editor of a Malaysian newspaper resigned over the weekend after printing one of the Muhammad cartoons that have unleashed a storm of protest across the Islamic world. Malaysia's Sunday Tribune, based in the remote state of Sarawak, on Borneo island, ran one of the Danish cartoons on Saturday. It is unclear which one of the 12 drawings was reprinted. Printed on page 12 of the paper, the cartoon illustrated an article about the lack of impact of the controversy in Malaysia, a country with a majority Muslim population. The newspaper apologised and expressed "profound regret over the unauthorised publication", in a front page statement on Sunday. "Our internal inquiry revealed that the editor on duty, who was responsible for the same publication, had done it all alone by himself without authority in compliance with the prescribed procedures as required for such news," the statement said. The editor, who has not been named, regretted his mistake, apologised and tendered his resignation, according to the statement. http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonprotests/...1703552,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 yeah, so let's riot!! it will really show them!! and be uber intelligent!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Muslim fury at sex toy By GUY PATRICK FURIOUS Muslims have blasted adult shop Ann Summers for selling a blow-up male doll called MUSTAFA SHAG. They complained that the novelty sex toy insults the Prophet Muhammad — who also has the title al-Mustafa. The High Street chain’s jokey £15 mustachioed doll has a 7in manhood and is targeted at hen parties. But the Muslim Association — based at Manchester’s Central Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre — branded him “obnoxious�. Yesterday a spokesman said: “This is the name of our Prophet and it’s very upsetting. This thing should be banned.� In a letter to the store, the Association said: “You have no idea how much hurt, anguish and disgust this obnoxious phrase has caused to Muslims. We are asking you to have our Most Revered Prophet’s name ‘Mustafa’ and the afflicted word ‘shag’ removed.� Last night Ann Summers said: “If anyone has a better name, please let us know. We’ll happily change it.� The row follows global furore over cartoons which depicted Muhammad as a terrorist. It'sThe Sun but this is legit!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbivore Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Originally posted by symbols@Feb 9 2006, 01:25 PM dawood it's sad that there aren't muslims out there saying "it is a fundamental misunderstanding of both cultures: westerners do not agree with muslim views on depicting muhammed, middle easterners do not agree with western views on freedom of expression..so let's stop rioting" Quoted post I'm sure there are plenty of Muslims out there who have this view on the situation. Unfortunately, there are also plenty of Muslims who apparently aren't educated enough, or don't possess the maturity to consider alternate means of resolving the situation. Instead, they lash out at anyone who doesn't share the same views as they do, even if they have nothing to do with the cause of their anger. Pardon the Fox News link, but I got the article of fark.com, and didn't feel like searching for the story on a different news site: Catholic Priest Shot, Killed at Church in Turkey Sunday, February 05, 2006 ANKARA, Turkey — A teenage boy shot and killed the Italian Roman Catholic priest of a church in the Black Sea port city of Trabzon on Sunday, shouting "God is great" as he escaped, according to police and witnesses. Officers were searching for the boy aged around 14 or 15, according to a police official who declined to be identified because of rules that bar Turkish civil servants from speaking to journalists without prior authorization. The police official would not say if the attack might be linked to the printing in European newspapers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, which has caused anger in Muslim countries. Earlier Sunday, hundreds of Turks protested in Istanbul against the cartoons. "Whether the killing is linked to the caricatures will emerge when the culprit has been caught," Trabzon's Gov. Huseyin Yavuzdemir said. The priest, 60-year-old Andrea Santoro, was shot hours after Mass at Santa Maria Church. A woman who answered the telephone at the church said the priest was inside when he was attacked, and prosecutor Burhan Cobanoglu said he was shot twice from behind, with bullets ripping through his heart and liver. Pope Benedict XVI's envoy in Turkey, Monsignor Antonio Lucibello, said he had spoken by telephone with a witness who said she saw the attacker fleeing and "heard the young man shout 'Allah Akbar' (God is Great)."' Lucibello declined to speculate on the motive for the killing, but said there were "no elements" to link the attack with the protests over the newspaper cartoons. Turkey's government denounced the attack. "We condemn with hatred the fact that the murder was committed in a house of worship against a man of religion," said Justice Minister Cemil Cicek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 yeah, maybe muslims do have that view but something weird happened the other day one of my coworkers forgot to close a screen on a shared computer she had left an email page open that had emails from more than a few muslim graduate students discussing this situation i read some of it. they were totally furious and insulted and completely felt that the danish government owed a big time apology, and that muslims were totally misunderstood and persecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm definitely in the "cultures misunderstanding each other" camp. But, as Dawood pointed out, "Thou shalt not worship any graven images before me"...what about the Sistine Chapel? I think he's right. Christians don't play by their own rules, so why is it shocking that they would neglect another culture's rules? Personally, I think it was insensitive, but everything could (or should) have been straightened out by an editorial apology. But, when I hear that there were eleven people killed in Afghanistan, I have to wonder...were they Muslim? If so, what message did their deaths send the rest of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm all about different cultures getting along and all, but come on. Why is everbody being so pussy about this? Islam is an ass backwards, terrible religion. Just like most religions. I think we should be going out of are way to offend conservitive islam. It'll be for the best in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Well, I'm more into offending the conservative Christians, personally. I have too much time invested to switch teams at this point. I think most religions need to be out of the limelight and just be part of their adherent's daily lives without all the fanfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ^^ ya see, I don't think we should view them as teams. They're pretty much the same. It's just that American conservative Christians are the ones in power, so it's much easier to focus on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 And, being an American who suffers daily as a result of their policy, I feel compelled to do everything in my power to make them pay. Here's another thing- and I'm sure it won't make any points with most of you, but here goes- I understand why the Muslims feel like their culture is not being respected, for a lot of the same reasons that I feel the Fundamentalist Right in this country doesn't respect my views or interests. However, I don't feel personally oppressed by the Muslims since I respect their views, and the Muslims I know (and I know a few) respect that. However, I've had to deal with my own famiiy turning their backs on me since I'm not a good Catholic and that's why I feel it's a little more personal. This isn't to say I respect the Muslims more, but they have expressed a willingness to let me be who I am. I don;t agree with Muslim terrorism or extremism- I've never experienced either...but I can tell you some stories about my first hand treatment by so-called Christians who should have known better. I guess it all boils down to what you see or feel on a day-to-day basis. I feel that the Fundamentalist Right in the US is a much greater threat to me, personally...not to mention the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Originally posted by El Mamerro@Feb 9 2006, 03:06 PM Boycotting and protest I am fully in favor of. It is definitely your right to voice your opinion against an offense and to make personal decisions as to how you conduct your own life, what products you consume, and with what people you want to associate with. But rioting and violence against others is beyond your rights as a citizen. I think what the Danish newspapers did was incredibly stupid, especially given the current global political climate. Whether they did it out of ignorance of Islamic law, or with the outright intent to insult, it was a dumb idea and I genuinely feel like you are right to feel insulted. But it's perfectly within their rights, and it doesn't justify any kind of violent act on your part. If you act according to a law that that you believe goes above the law of mankind, we are going to see a very, very serious conflict of issues here between two factions of mankind that can escalate into an unthinkably horrible situation. Please excercise good judgment before acting, for the best of us all. That said, I find it curious that Muslims do not believe in objects of worship or any kind of imagery of venerated figures, and they'll defend that belief with the same zealousness those non-Muslim worshippers defend their statues with. The importance of the non-existance of effigies is elevated to just about the same level; it's almost a kind of counter-worship. It seems to me that if the issue holds that amount of weight in Islam, then Muhammad's stature as a mortal man is elevated to the same degree of "holiness" as, say, the Virgin Mary in Catholicism. It's odd to see Muslims looking down on other religions for worshipping "idols", but then ascribe a level of importance to their own religious figures that is SO strong, you cannot even draw an image of them. Maybe I'm seeing differently, and the reason why religious imagery isn't allowed in Islam is precisely to avoid its followers falling into idolatry. If that is the case, then I don't see why it would be such a strong issue for a non-Muslim to not follow that rule. Dawood? Quoted post Yes, the reason why making images of prophets is forbidden in Islam is exactly what you mentioned. To avoid it's followers from falling into idolatry. As far as non muslims not drawing pictures of Muhammad, well the issue is not just in drawing the picture, it's the horrible depiction of him and I'm just too disgusted at what people have been posting here to write anything beneficial, All, I can say is one day you'll all know the calamity of your actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I hope I'm an exception to the above, Dawood. I'm not Super-PC-Guy, but I know better than to disrespect a religion and its adherents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwibxonex Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 This is hard to explain but somebody must feel the way I do about this. As quickly as Condoleeza was to get up there and say Iran and radical muslims are using this to fuel their fire dadad and so on about their rioting over free speech dudah C'mon, what does she think we are stupid, the NEWS is explaining to us "whats happening" why does the U.S. feel the need to hold a fucking conference on some shit "The danish did?" .bleggablah does anyone see the irony in this? What there doing is being all like "Oh theyre getting all upset over this drawing, now we got a reason to attack they asses" That's the way I see it, especially since before they didn't start coming up for MORE reasons to invde Iraq (aside form 9/11 of course) until AFTER they started attacking.. now they're pretty much covering their asses.. I think George Bush is a bitch, before i was all gung-ho about stomping some ass.. now he's all like "we'aint want no problems problems.. we aint..." Dont get me wrong I know the consesquence of disgracing a people's God who worship him with more conviction than 99% of our own do to our God.. shits just insane.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yeah, I sense some wagging of the dog going on here. All it's gonna take for Bush to walk into Iran with guns blazing is one overt action that could possibly be remotely tied to them. Whatever happened to diplomacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I'm mainly talking about the people coming up with more cartoons. It's just plain disrespectful and it's a real low life thing to do. I'm all for free speech, but when your speech is causing harm to others , then it's just best to be quiet. I mean seriously, It's just a plain scumbag crackhead thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Especially after the fact....I think that shit shouldn't fly, but you can't really prevent people from being ignorant. Well, at least you know who's ignorant now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Originally posted by Flavicon@Feb 9 2006, 09:19 PM I'm all about different cultures getting along and all, but come on. Why is everbody being so pussy about this? Islam is an ass backwards, terrible religion. Just like most religions. I think we should be going out of are way to offend conservitive islam. It'll be for the best in the long run Quoted post are you on the bush administration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavicon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I am an agnostic/atheist and i generally loath organized religions. I understand this may seem exteme to some , but to assume that i'm some rabid right winger??? your just being silly now edit* minor grammar error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backfromgrave Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 no he would attack bush administration and these stupid religions.. I beleived in 'god' since i was born.. but what and how people create religious gods and be convinced of it sickens me.. when people pray they are praying to the true god to these man made specific attributes to a fucking 'mohammed' or 'jesus'.. I can't believe there are still religious followers out there.. whatever will be will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemothafuckinbuilder Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 DAwood so what your saying is... you will mass protest a fucking cartoon but you will not protest.... Muslims targeting women and children and blowing themselves up? Muslims using violence in the name of islam? Muslims beheading civilians or aid workers? Get shot motherfucker, next deployment to Iraq... i'm going to kill some Muslim extremists for you baby all for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemothafuckinbuilder Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Reply to my other comments, don't pick the ones you like. I said Muslims have been effectivley killing each other for hundreds of years without the help of Isreal or anyone else. Your people are no different than any other people on this planet. You are motivated by war and when the outcome is not in your favor you bitch and moan to the max about how the world is opressing you. So back to my original statment... Shut the fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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