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Originally posted by Flavicon@Feb 16 2006, 12:31 PM

moral values evolve, but that doesn't mean that their relative.

 

That would mean anything can be justified, there would be no basis for human rights violations, etc,

 

 

 

 

everything can be justified...there is no basis for anything.. when will you realize that shit...if more people realized that, there would be less violence and murder in the world, ironically.

 

 

All human conflict is because of one reason: over resources...simply that; nothing else. it has nothing to do with values or culture or cartoons etc..thats like a couple fighting over toothpaste...its alot more deeper and simpler than that...

 

 

 

BIG PICTURE GUYS, big picture

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Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 17 2006, 12:27 AM

theyre only fighting America because America is fighting them, again, If America pulled out of the middle east tomorrow there would be no more support for Al qaida. Terrorism is America's frankenstein.

 

Thats bull and you know it.

 

If America pull out of the mid-east they withdrawel would be viewed as a victorty for al qaida. Not only would there popularity explode (lol?) America would be viewed as weak and become more of a target for attacks.

 

Anyway who attacked first? Remeber 9-11? or was that a just a conspiracy masterminded by burger king to expand into Iraq?

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Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Feb 17 2006, 01:04 AM

All human conflict is because of one reason: over resources...simply that

 

 

No, no... conflict arises from an emotional response... All conflict arises from the will to exert dominion. The object of conflict is irrelevant...

 

Bigger picture.

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Originally posted by MAR+Feb 17 2006, 06:12 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MAR - Feb 17 2006, 06:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Feb 17 2006, 12:27 AM

theyre only fighting America because America is fighting them, again, If America pulled out of the middle east tomorrow there would be no more support for Al qaida.  Terrorism is America's frankenstein.

 

Thats bull and you know it.

 

If America pull out of the mid-east they withdrawel would be viewed as a victorty for al qaida. Not only would there popularity explode (lol?) America would be viewed as weak and become more of a target for attacks.

 

Anyway who attacked first? Remeber 9-11? or was that a just a conspiracy masterminded by burger king to expand into Iraq?

[/b]

 

what support or reason would they have to attack america if American forces pulled out of the middle east?

 

yeah I remember 9-11 do you remember desert storm?

do you remember the 60+ years of slaughter the palestinians have been going through at the hands of Isreal (backed by America).

 

I'm not advocating 9-11 by the way. theres not many muslims that I know of that agreed with 9-11. Islamically, it's wrong to kill innocent people. point blank, theres no way to justify 9-11 from an islamic perspective. But still, 9-11 did not start this war. 9-11 just pushed it in public view. Muslims have been dying at the hands of the american govt. way before 9-11.

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Man I'd hate to be one of the cartoonists right about now...

 

Cleric offers reward for killing cartoonist

 

Vow comes as Pakistan arrests 125, including radical Islamic leader

 

MSNBC News Services

Updated: 9:04 a.m. ET Feb. 17, 2006

 

PESHAWAR, Pakistan - A Pakistani Muslim cleric said Friday that he and supporters were offering rewards of more than $1 million for killing Danish cartoonists who drew caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

 

Maulana Yousef Qureshi, a cleric in the northwestern city of Peshawar, said during Friday prayers that he personally had offered to pay a bounty of 500,000 rupees ($8,400), while a jewelers association was putting up $1 million, and others were offering $17,000 plus a car.

 

Qureshi repeated the offer at rally later in the city to protest against the cartoons.

 

 

"If the West can place a bounty on Osama bin Laden ... we can also announce reward for killing the man who has caused this sacrilege of the holy prophet," Qureshi told Reuters, referring to the $25 million U.S. bounty on the al-Qaida leader's head.

 

He apparently did not realize that 12 cartoonists, not one, drew the drawings that have led to protests across the Muslim world

 

Earlier this month a Taliban commander in Afghanistan was reported as offering a bounty of 220 pounds of gold to anyone who killed a cartoonist who drew the pictures.

 

The commander, Mullah Dadullah, also offered 12 pounds of gold to anyone who killed a Danish, Norwegian or German soldier.

 

Protests over the cartoons have turned violent in several Pakistani cities this week and at least five people have died.

 

125 arrested

Also on Friday, police detained 125 protesters for violating a ban on rallies in eastern Pakistan and put a radical Islamist leader under house arrest, amid fears of more deadly demonstrations.

 

Police were ordered to restrict the movement of all religious leaders who might address any rallies and round up religious activists “who could be any threat to law and order,� a senior police official said in the main eastern city of Lahore.

 

In Multan, another city in Punjab province, about 300 police swooped down on 125 protesters who had gathered Friday morning at a traffic circle, calling themselves “slaves of the prophet� and trampling on a Danish flag, said Sharif Zafar, a police official.

 

Protesters shouted “Death to Musharraf!� as they were bundled into two police buses, referring to Pakistan’s leader, President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

 

Zafar said they were being taken to a police station because they were violating a ban on rallies in Punjab — imposed after deadly riots in Lahore on Tuesday.

 

In Karachi, police fired tear gas and swung batons to disperse about 2,000 protesters, many wielding sticks, who blocked the main highway into the southern city, said Alim Jafari, a Karachi police official. The road was cleared and some 30 protesters were detained, he said.

 

Protests in Pakistan against the cartoons have turned violent this week. Five people have died in riots, and Western businesses have been vandalized and burned.

 

Wide protests

Demonstrations broke out in Muslim countries after newspapers in several European countries reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that were first published in Denmark in September. Islamic tradition frowns on any depiction of Muhammad, and the satiric nature of some of the Danish cartoons — such as one showing Muhammad’s turban as a bomb — further inflamed some Muslims.

 

In Hong Kong, thousands of Muslims, mostly Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians and Sri Lankans living in the territory, angrily chanted slogans as they marched from a downtown mosque to the local office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees.

 

“Don’t play with our religion,� read a placard held up by a protester. “No double standards. We want justice!� read another.

 

Ghulam Mustafa, one of the organizers, said more than 3,000 people participated in the protest. Police put the figure at about 2,000.

 

The crowds dispersed peacefully after march leaders presented a U.N. representative with a petition condemning the cartoons as sacrilegious.

 

In Bangladesh, about 500 protesters marched through streets outside Dhaka’s main mosque, chanting “Down with Islam’s enemies.�

 

In Lahore, a spokesman for the radical group Jamaat al-Dawat said a heavy contingent of police arrived at the home of its leader, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, on Friday morning and told him he could not go outside. He was due to make a speech in Faisalabad, about 75 miles away, said the spokesman, Yahya Mujahid.

 

Lahore police chief Khawaja Khalid Farooq said 12,000 police and an unspecified number of paramilitary troops were guarding government and foreign installations, mosques and other public places like shopping centers, restaurants and cinemas.

 

Supporters of the radical Jamaat-e-Islami, Pakistan’s largest Islamic group, also planned to hold rallies in Karachi after midday prayers Friday, said Sarfaraz Ahmed, a spokesman for the anti-U.S. group.

 

More anti-cartoon protests were expected Friday in other Pakistani cities, including Rawalpindi, Quetta and Peshawar — the northwestern city ravaged by riots on Wednesday. Police were guarding multinational businesses and government buildings, witnesses said.

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Originally posted by Smart@Feb 17 2006, 05:45 AM

Al Queda enjoys a whole pile of support from Indonesia as well... so I don't think AQ is just gonna evaporate...

 

Pull out? You mean of Iraq or the whole region?

 

 

no, they won't evaporate, but if nobody's fighting them , then they'll go home and spend time with their kids. I swear , people in American think that the "insurgents" are some force of people that if left alone will grow into a mega army and come take over the US.

Again, If there was no war, both sides would be home being fathers to their children. I think one of the biggest deceptions of this war is the bush administrations presentation of the situation.

I mean, they tell americans that they're defending freedom.

let me translate that.

Bush: Were defending our economy, we're setting up shop overseas to secure that you and your family can have that SUV you really want.

So a couple of sand niggers gotta die, It's just collateral damage.

 

Bush: P.S. Youre either with us or against us.

 

Oh, yeah, the whole region.

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Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 17 2006, 10:25 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 17 2006, 10:25 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by MAR@Feb 17 2006, 06:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Feb 17 2006, 12:27 AM

theyre only fighting America because America is fighting them, again, If America pulled out of the middle east tomorrow there would be no more support for Al qaida.  Terrorism is America's frankenstein.

 

Thats bull and you know it.

 

If America pull out of the mid-east they withdrawel would be viewed as a victorty for al qaida. Not only would there popularity explode (lol?) America would be viewed as weak and become more of a target for attacks.

 

Anyway who attacked first? Remeber 9-11? or was that a just a conspiracy masterminded by burger king to expand into Iraq?

 

what support or reason would they have to attack america if American forces pulled out of the middle east?

 

yeah I remember 9-11 do you remember desert storm?

do you remember the 60+ years of slaughter the palestinians have been going through at the hands of Isreal (backed by America).

 

I'm not advocating 9-11 by the way. theres not many muslims that I know of that agreed with 9-11. Islamically, it's wrong to kill innocent people. point blank, theres no way to justify 9-11 from an islamic perspective. But still, 9-11 did not start this war. 9-11 just pushed it in public view. Muslims have been dying at the hands of the american govt. way before 9-11.

[/b]

 

What reason did they have on 9-11?

 

I remeber desert storm, its actually one of my first memories I was 3 at the time I think. As far as I understand Bush Sr. attacked in defence of Kuwait who was being attack by Saddam who was also perpetrating mass genocide. He, unfortunatly failed in his efforts to overthrough Saddam and Kuwait was left a burning mess.

 

60+ years of slaughter by the Israelies? You have got to be joking. The destruction of Israel has been one of the main objective of the arabs in the middle east since before '48. Hundreds of millions of dollars are given to terrorists and incentives are made for suicide bombers. Saddam himself would pay the family of suicide bombers twenty five thousand dollars if thier child blew himself up. The childrens textbooks are filled with anti-Jewish and Israel sentiment. The brainwashing starts from the youth.

 

Israel wants to live in piece, but the Palestinians prevent that. Any deaths that have occured are on your peoples heads.

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Yeah, I seriously doubt anyone is gonna buy the idea that if the US pulled out we'd suddenly see a big change of attitude from the radical muslims.

 

Dawoo, you say:

"no, they won't evaporate, but if nobody's fighting them , then they'll go home and spend time with their kids. I swear , people in American think that the "insurgents" are some force of people that if left alone will grow into a mega army and come take over the US."

 

This is idiotic. They weren't at home with the kids before we were engaged in direct combat. They were exerting influence and actively terrorising the Phillipines and Indonesia. The idea the the US is somehow the lynchpin in this whole scenario is pretty weak. This is global Jihad and Americans know it's not just us. It's in Chechnya, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Morroco, Pakistan, Kenya, Spain, England and more...

 

And I don't think Americans, aren't you an American Dawoo? Anyway, I don't think anyone's expects any 'MEGA ARMY'... I mean, if the Middle East EVER had a history of global conquest that MIGHT be a fear but even when Sadam raised the second largest standing army in the world he was still riding on twenty year old technology. Nobody is scared of a megaarmy, we're scared of two dudes in a box truck...

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Originally posted by MAR@Feb 17 2006, 04:39 PM

Israel wants to live in piece, but the Palestinians prevent that. Any deaths that have occured are on your peoples heads.

 

 

ok, so the palestinians are the ones who forced the jews out of their houses with armies and tanks . but, that's on their heads...wow, that's sound logic.

 

 

and FYI, Saddam is NOT a muslim, nor does he represent Islam.

He's a ba'thist communist.

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Originally posted by Smart@Feb 17 2006, 08:22 PM

Yeah, I seriously doubt anyone is gonna buy the idea that if the US pulled out we'd suddenly see a big change of attitude from the radical muslims.

 

Dawoo, you say:

"no, they won't evaporate, but if nobody's fighting them , then they'll go home and spend time with their kids. I swear , people in American think that the "insurgents" are some force of people that if left alone will grow into a mega army and come take over the US."

 

This is idiotic. They weren't at home with the kids before we were engaged in direct combat. They were exerting influence and actively terrorising the Phillipines and Indonesia. The idea the the US is somehow the lynchpin in this whole scenario is pretty weak. This is global Jihad and Americans know it's not just us. It's in Chechnya, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Morroco, Pakistan, Kenya, Spain, England and more...

 

And I don't think Americans, aren't you an American Dawoo? Anyway, I don't think anyone's expects any 'MEGA ARMY'... I mean, if the Middle East EVER had a history of global conquest that MIGHT be a fear but even when Sadam raised the second largest standing army in the world he was still riding on twenty year old technology. Nobody is scared of a megaarmy, we're scared of two dudes in a box truck...

 

My point is, you wouldn't see any of these terrost activities (at least not on a global scale) if there were no oppression and killing against the muslims in their lands.

Of course theres always going to be a few wackos who will do something crazy for some far off political agenda, but not on the level we're seeing today. Today, the average iraqi is fighting because they feel the need to defend themselves against America. Go to an Iraqi forum board and see what the sentiment is about america. (and not an "iraqi" board run by the propaganda team.

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Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 18 2006, 11:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 18 2006, 11:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Smart@Feb 17 2006, 08:22 PM

Yeah, I seriously doubt anyone is gonna buy the idea that if the US pulled out we'd suddenly see a big change of attitude from the radical muslims.

 

Dawoo, you say:

"no, they won't evaporate, but if nobody's fighting them , then they'll go home and spend time with their kids. I swear , people in American think that the "insurgents" are some force of people that if left alone will grow into a mega army and come take over the US."

 

This is idiotic. They weren't at home with the kids before we were engaged in direct combat. They were exerting influence and actively terrorising the Phillipines and Indonesia. The idea the the US is somehow the lynchpin in this whole scenario is pretty weak. This is global Jihad and Americans know it's not just us. It's in Chechnya, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Morroco, Pakistan, Kenya, Spain, England and more...

 

And I don't think Americans, aren't you an American Dawoo? Anyway, I don't think anyone's expects any 'MEGA ARMY'... I mean, if the Middle East EVER had a history of global conquest that MIGHT be a fear but even when Sadam raised the second largest standing army in the world he was still riding on twenty year old technology. Nobody is scared of a megaarmy, we're scared of two dudes in a box truck...

 

My point is, you wouldn't see any of these terrost activities (at least not on a global scale) if there were no oppression and killing against the muslims in their lands.

Of course theres always going to be a few wackos who will do something crazy for some far off political agenda, but not on the level we're seeing today. Today, the average iraqi is fighting because they feel the need to defend themselves against America. Go to an Iraqi forum board and see what the sentiment is about america. (and not an "iraqi" board run by the propaganda team.

[/b]

 

I don't need to go to an Iraqi board because most of the people on the internet are a. full of shit. b. pussies. When I've had 1st hand expiriance with the people. And don't say Iraqis are fighting America... Iraq is a state not a nation-state... the SUNNINS are the ones fighting us. Why? Because they lost all of their power over the shias and kurds. The Iraqi National Guard is mostly composed of very willing young shia and kurds also integrating many sunnins who don't believe killing other muslims for political gain is right.

 

Muslims aren't being opressed by anybody except your own selfs. We give these countries enough oil money to live VERY generously... look at Kuwait... everybody there is fucking filthy rich.... why?... because they don't spend their money on weapons, because their leader is not an opressive muslim extremist scumbag, they don't sit there btich and moan about the hand that feeds them for no absolute reason at all.

 

For your information... the elected Iraqi gov. has sovergn power in Iraq... What does that mean? They can tell the U.S. to leave at any point and time. They are saying stay until we can run our country with our troops.... that's what we're doing.

 

 

Also... let me give you a perfect example of muslims being complete dumbasses which led to them being slaughtered. What happened with the Serbs? A muslim minority in the country decided they want to run the country... so they made a move on the government.... what was the response? Mass killings of muslims... who's fault was that?

 

Many of the European nations took refugees from the Middle East when muslims were busy fucking each other up in the name of allah... now you want to take over the countries that took you in? What would you expect to happen?

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Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 18 2006, 11:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 18 2006, 11:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MAR@Feb 17 2006, 04:39 PM

Israel wants to live in piece, but the Palestinians prevent that. Any deaths that have occured are on your peoples heads.

 

 

ok, so the palestinians are the ones who forced the jews out of their houses with armies and tanks . but, that's on their heads...wow, that's sound logic.

 

 

and FYI, Saddam is NOT a muslim, nor does he represent Islam.

He's a ba'thist communist.

[/b]

 

Oh you're a retard, just shut the fuck up already. ba'thist communist is a political prefrence not a religious denomination. Yes Saddam is a Muslim, he believes in the jihad (pronounced "you're a stupid fuck who needs to die") and he also carries around a koran with him which he never shuts the fuck up about.

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Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 18 2006, 12:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 18 2006, 12:06 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MAR@Feb 17 2006, 04:39 PM

Israel wants to live in piece, but the Palestinians prevent that. Any deaths that have occured are on your peoples heads.

 

 

ok, so the palestinians are the ones who forced the jews out of their houses with armies and tanks . but, that's on their heads...wow, that's sound logic.

 

 

and FYI, Saddam is NOT a muslim, nor does he represent Islam.

He's a ba'thist communist.

[/b]

 

you obviously dont know anything about the 48 war.

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My point is, you wouldn't see any of these terrost activities (at least not on a global scale) if there were no oppression and killing against the muslims in their lands.

Of course theres always going to be a few wackos who will do something crazy for some far off political agenda, but not on the level we're seeing today. Today, the average iraqi is fighting because they feel the need to defend themselves against America. Go to an Iraqi forum board and see what the sentiment is about america. (and not an "iraqi" board run by the propaganda team.

 

 

 

geez they already have the internet and forums in iraw all the shile all this senseless american 'infidel' killing is going on? wow, they are advanced. im pretty sure that the ba'athists werent communists seeing as how he purged the communists in the early nineties (dont quote me). and not only that, a lot of the fighters arent even from goddamned iraq.

 

you knwo this guy really bothers me, defending islam is one thing, but the way you defend it makes it seem like its alright to kill innocents, etc. etc. yeah those poor palestinians, poor them, they just voted in HAMAS, tell me why they would do that if they really wanted peace. man you need to get your head out of your ass. the way i see it youre proabably some rich ass white kid from the suburbs who decided to become a muslim to rebel against your parents or to be different or some shit.

 

 

CLOSED

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Originally posted by Ishbel Bullen@Feb 19 2006, 12:14 AM

you knwo this guy really bothers me, defending islam is one thing, but the way you defend it makes it seem like its alright to kill innocents, etc. etc. yeah those poor palestinians, poor them, they just voted in HAMAS, tell me why they would do that if they really wanted peace. man you need to get your head out of your ass. the way i see it youre proabably some rich ass white kid from the suburbs who decided to become a muslim to rebel against your parents or to be different or some shit.

 

 

 

 

yeah the only inocents that should get killed are arabs, and if your refering to dawood "some rich ass white kid from the suburbs" your way off.

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Originally posted by bobthemothafuckinbuilder@Feb 18 2006, 01:47 PM

most of the people on the internet are a. full of shit.

 

OH, THE IRONY!!!

 

Hey bob, what top secret force recon ANG"E"LICO delta force base is in Chicago? Again, you could easily and anonymously prove your claims. But of course you won't because you are full of shit.

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Originally posted by Ishbel Bullen@Feb 19 2006, 12:24 AM

buddy arabs are blowing up arabs in front of mosques every day in iraq, how is that legit?

 

Is it legit for americans to kill arabs?

 

and beyond that, arabs were not blowing each other in front of mosques every day till after the US invaded........so ? the civil war unfolding is the americans fault.

 

oh I See you mean, arabs are babaric uncivilized "sand niggers" is that right?

 

okman,

take a look at the past this, is fucking unchaneled post colonial rage... just like in paris a couple months back. The west is just to ready to "get over it " but what they don't realize is that the people that grew up in the colonies are still alive. there is only one or two generations of post colonial children. the white man does not want the burden of the history of colony on his back but the wounds are still there.. it is not his decision to be done with it, the same as it is not white americas decision to decide that black people should be "over" the history of slavery segregation and racism.

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Ha, ha,

I guess thats why people on this board have been talking so much trash to me....Because your'e all white. I hate white people. (except me and few other honkys)

 

I know they call black on white racism "reverse racism" which I always thought was a funny term, but what do they call racism when a white guy hates white people?

 

oh, man, I wish I was a rich white kid, I got 4 kids to feed, That rich kid from the burbs thing would be coming in handy right about now.

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Originally posted by Ishbel Bullen@Feb 19 2006, 12:14 AM

you knwo this guy really bothers me, defending islam is one thing, but the way you defend it makes it seem like its alright to kill innocents, etc. etc.  yeah those poor palestinians, poor them, they just voted in HAMAS, tell me why they would do that if they really wanted peace. 

 

Here's the thing. YOU see Hamas as a terrorist organisation (not that they havent done theor share of terrorism) But in Palestine, they do a lot of charitable work and palestinians see them as a group that can benefit people.

 

So, America voted in Bush for a second term what's the difference?

I'm sure that was a peace loving move on the part of all those love bugs who voted in Bush , huh?

 

and quote 1 post of mine where I even slightly "allude" to the notion that killing innocent people is ok.....just 1 post....

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Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 18 2006, 09:59 PM

.....and palestinians see them as a group that can benefit people.

 

How by killing more Israelies? The fact that they got voted in messes the Palestinians over. The US and Israel have both made the desision to stop giving them money. This move was only a step in the wrong direction for them. Peace will not be made any easier if at all.

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Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 18 2006, 09:59 PM

Here's the thing. YOU see Hamas as a terrorist organisation (not that they havent done theor share of terrorism)

 

They are:The 1988 Hamas Covenant states that the organization's goal is to "raise the banner of God over every inch of Palestine," i.e. to eliminate the State of Israel (and any secular Palestinian state which may be established), and to replace it with an Islamic Republic.

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