By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Drug withdrawn over fears it made youngsters want to kill themselves

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by imported_sofarok, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. im on this shit..

    50,000 children taking antidepressants

    · Drug withdrawn over fears it made youngsters want to kill themselves
    · New questions for pharmaceutical firms

    Sarah Boseley, health editor
    Saturday September 20, 2003
    The Guardian

    An antidepressant which GPs have been prescribing to thousands of children, in spite of the fact that it is not recommended for their use, can cause youngsters to want to kill themselves, the government's regulatory agency warned yesterday.
    Efexor, made by the drug company Wyeth, is being taken by at least 3,000 children in the UK, it was revealed yesterday, even though guidance to doctors states that it should not be given to under 18s. It is the second antidepressant to be specifically banned from use in children in four months.

    There are around 50,000 children, some as young as six, on antidepressants in the UK, the Guardian has learned. Last year, doctors wrote 170,000 prescriptions of the drugs for children under 18, even though many experts say counselling and talking therapies work better.

    Just as with Seroxat, the GlaxoSmithKline drug banned in June, studies have shown that Efexor can cause children to have suicidal thoughts or to become hostile, a word which in the context of clinical trials can mean homicidal. Experts at the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA), which licenses drugs in the UK, are urging that children should not stop taking either drug suddenly, but should consult their doctor.

    The announcement raises a number of serious and urgent questions about the conduct of the pharmaceutical industry, the use of drugs in children and the ability of the MHRA to police the drug companies and safeguard public health.

    "We want to see urgent action to question how drugs are regulated and licensed and how clinical trials are carried out and reported as part of this process," said Richard Brook, chief executive of Mind, the mental health charity.

    Data which suggests the drugs could be causing children to feel murderous and suicidal has been in drug company hands for several years. The studies in these two drugs and others were carried out in the mid to late-1990s, after the Food and Drug Administration in the United States asked for efficacy and safety data be cause of the rapidly increasing number of children being prescribed antidepressants.

    Glaxo is already under investigation by the UK regulators for failing to hand over data showing the suicide risks earlier. One of Wyeth's four studies in depressed and anxious children was published in 1997. Yesterday a spokesman for the company refused to give the dates of the other unpublished trials. Everything that it was necessary for the public to know was in the public domain, he said. "I'm not going to give additional information to you."

    The MHRA, which has a duty to police the companies, only realised there were risks to children after it set up a working group to review the antidepressants this year in response to public concern over Seroxat in adults. It has now become apparent that MHRA officials normally scrutinise only a summary of the trial results that they are offered by the manufacturers, and then only when the company is seeking a licence.

    Seroxat belongs to a class known as the SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors), of which the best known is Prozac. Efexor is closely related to that class - at the dose prescribed by GPs it works in exactly the same way. None is licensed for children. Doctors are entitled to prescribe drugs "off label" - outside the licence terms; in the case of children, because trials have not been done, they often have no choice.

    "The expert group will be examining urgently what implications, if any, these new findings have for other antidepressants," said Professor Ian Weller, the review chairman.

    David Healy, an expert in psychiatric drugs and director of the North Wales department of psychological medicine, said he thought up to 100,000 children could have been on SSRIs in the last few years. "With rates of serious side effects in the region of 2-3%, you are looking at a lot of kids who may have been suicidal in one way or another, who would not have been if they hadn't been put on these drugs."

    Code words in trials can encompass a broad range of side effects. In GlaxoSmithKline's study by Keller and colleagues, carried out in 1995-6, 11 children suffered serious side effects, compared with two taking a placebo [dummy pill]. The 11 were said to have suffered "various psychiatric events". Five suffered "emotional lability" - a code word which embraced not only a propensity for mood swings but also suicidal thoughts. Seven children on Seroxat were hospitalised, including two with emotional lability.

    The Keller study was not published until 2001. Glaxo maintains there was "no signal" that there were dangers with the drug until two further studies were done. The combined data, re-analysed to look beyond "emotional lability" specifically at suicidal thoughts and gestures, found that the drug did not work in depression in children and that suicidal thoughts, self-harm and gestures occurred in 3.2% of patients compared to 1.5% on placebo.

    In a statement to the Guardian, the MHRA tacitly acknowledged that code words like "emotional lability" were unhelpful. "By the time the totality of the data were submitted to the MHRA in May [2003], the events listed under the overall term of emotional lability had been analysed to identify the individual cases of potentially suicidal behaviour and self-harm. Any high level grouping of terms potentially decreases the sensitivity of analyses."

    "From reading the published material," said Dr Healy, "my conclusion is that emotional lability has almost always meant suicidality of one sort or another."

    DISCO BRYSO Senior Member

    Joined: May 12, 2001 Messages: 1,889 Likes Received: 0
    yes... you guys are catching on. goodbye.

  3. iloveboxcars

    iloveboxcars 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jul 29, 2002 Messages: 20,506 Likes Received: 450
    i was on anti-depressants for awhile. i noticed i was getting hooked and just cut myself off cold turkey.

    damn you drugs. damn you.
  4. Don't Panic

    Don't Panic Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2003 Messages: 647 Likes Received: 0
    All anti-depressants did for me was make my stomach hurt like I was dying about four hours after I took them.
  5. i11igul

    i11igul Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 5, 2003 Messages: 1,810 Likes Received: 0
    I need them real bad probably
    i also need something to put my energy into like an addiction
    its not lookin soo good:eek:

    DISCO BRYSO Senior Member

    Joined: May 12, 2001 Messages: 1,889 Likes Received: 0
    put your energy into life.
  7. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    i thought they were supposed to fix that problem ?
  8. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,128 Likes Received: 66
    I doubt that this article is correct

    But I do agree that Effexor is not the anti-depressant of choice for kids under 16. I give people Effexor all the time, but it is considered a less effective medication. The preferred medication for children and adolescents who are depressed is Zoloft, in my opinion. And in some cases, Paxil. I've taken both, and Zoloft works better for me than Paxil. In eight years of child/adolescent psychiatric nursing, I've never had a single case of suicidality caused by Effexor. Suicidality, yeah. But not because of Effexor. Usually because the kid's PARENTS were ill themselves and unable to provide a normal, stable, loving home and consistant, appropriate rules and consequences for breaking rules. The parents are often unable to cope themselves, and use drugs, alcohol, etc. to deal with their problems. They tend to focus on themselves in therapy sessions (their kid is IN A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR A SUICIDE ATTEMPT and all they can talk about in therapy is THEMSELVES.)

    95% of the time, the kid comes from a divorced home, or a home where his mother never married, or married a step-father years after the kid was born, or has had a whole series of live-in boyfriends with the emotional maturity level of a hard-drinking thirteen-year-old.

    Most of the time the kid has never had a father, and grew up thinking he really wasn't worth shit and that since nobody else follows any rules, why the fuck should I? Most of the time the kid's mother had children very young, and was far, far too immature to be anybody's mother. The kid probably has been physically abused, emotionally neglected, and possibly sexually abused.

    But it's all because Effexor is a bad drug, eh?

    I ain't buying it. I'd start by convincing the girls and young women of the world to STOP HAVING SEX BEFORE THEY ARE READY TO BE A MOTHER. I'd convince fathers to stop being self-centered, selfish jackasses, and to start being a loving, caring DAD who is a good husband to his wife and a good father to his children. I'd convince mothers to worry less about their bank account and their career, and more about their children's well being. I'd convince all parents to set down a set of fair, reasonable rules, and enforce them with love and a firm determination that regardless of how fucked up my neighborhood is, MY children are going to obey my rules.

    I'd convince the fathers of all these daughters to exercise some care and control over with whom they associate. Anybody gives my kid dope, and I find out about it, I'm sending his ass to the graveyard. Any male of whom I do not approve who attempts to associate with my daughter (never mind tries to fuck her) will be looking down the business end of my 12 gauge. MY FAMILY BELONGS TO ME. It is my responsibility to see that they are safe, and loved, and well cared for. Anybody, I don't give a fuck who they are, who interferes with that, is going to get their ass kicked bad.

    No doubt, most of the kids on this board totally disagree with this^^^. I can understand that. So explain to me why the baddest-ass bad ass teenage criminals in Houston come into our hospital, and start out as hate-filled, oppositional, defiant, insolent, violence-prone thugs, and end up as decent, polite, hopeful and ambitious ex-criminals.

    The reason? Interaction with normal, caring adults--nurses, psych techs, physicians and therapists--who show them that being a hater and a thug gets you only one of two things: a long jail term or a coffin. And being a normal person gets you a decent chance at a satisfying, regular life. Most of the time, their families and schools and neighborhoods are so dysfunctional that they are living lives of hate-filled despair. THAT'S why they are depressed and suicidal (or homicidal.) No self respect, no self esteem, no hope for the future, no faith that things can be better, or that anyone cares. We cannot reach every kid, but we do our best. Sometimes it takes two or three trips to jail before they wise up. I figure if we salvage ten or fifteen per cent we're doing pretty well, considering how screwed up they are when we get them.
  9. I come from a stable middleclass family but im still not happy…they want to put me on dothiepin hydrochloride what do you reckon?

    DISCO BRYSO Senior Member

    Joined: May 12, 2001 Messages: 1,889 Likes Received: 0
    whatever you want to do. get a therapist and a psychiatrist. that is the nature of medicine. have more than one doctor.
  11. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,128 Likes Received: 66

    I think you mean "doxepin hydrochloride." Are you seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist? (this makes a difference.)
    Doxepin is often marketed under the name Adapin or Sinequan, and in UK, Triadapin, I think. Doxepin is what is called a TCA (tri-cyclic antidepressant). It prevents the reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin in the pre-snyaptic neurons of the brain. It's an "older" type of antidepressant, but it does work.

    This type of antidepressant was commonly used before they invented SSRI's like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Seroquel, etc. ("SSRI" stands for "selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor.")

    If you have any kind of heart problem, you aren't supposed to take TCA's. Don't drink alcohol or take any antihistamines, narcotic painkillers or sedatives while taking TCA's (the TCA "potentiates" the alcohol, etc. and you could pass out easy. Might even overdose.)

    It depends on what your doctor says and why he is giving you a TCA. Did you ask him about an SSRI, like Zoloft? TCA's are sort of "old school" these days. Sometimes older physicians/ therapists prefer medications with which they are familiar.
  12. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    i wanna be the dude that rocks the imaginative medicinal verbiage for pay.
    zoloft? zostrix? zantac? not bad, i could do as good.
    when people met me they'd be impressed
    i came up with and named some weird ass substance that did weird
    ass things and had a weird ass name. yep.

  13. MagatsuTaito

    MagatsuTaito Junior Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2003 Messages: 223 Likes Received: 0
    Just use ritalin its good for everything
  14. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    ritalin didn't do shit for me. but thanks doc.
    poor grades due to attention deficiency becuz
    your curriculum actually kills brain cells it's so
    understimulating? how about some drugsz young man?????
  15. i11igul

    i11igul Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 5, 2003 Messages: 1,810 Likes Received: 0
    i hear that
    understimulization is an understatement
    i see the school counselor and a psychologist outside of school
    seems to not do anything for me cuz im still a very angry person
    i can't handle telling the truth or holding a simple conversation
    i never accept blame and am not good with confrontation
    who gives a fucking shit, it doesn't bother me:p