Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kults said: So are they really faster than all prod cars? Faster than a Hellcat whut? A hellcat doesn't have the torque to beat a P100D in the 1/4 mile. P100D no joke, combined both motors put out 700+ HP, all of it with far more torque off the line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 *** cough (I don't see Tesla listed here in the top 10 fastest production cars). It runs a high 10s 1/4 btw. https://blog.dupontregistry.com/features/top-10-fastest-quarter-mile-times-production-cars/ I don't know how to split topics or I'd cut all of our car talk from this morning out and put it in another thread. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 The ability to put full torque down at 1rpm is true, but traction control systems won't actually allow the car to do that. Now, the electric dirt bikes (toys) are pretty bad ass..... I like them because they're quiet and people have been getting away with riding them all over the city lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 That’s impressive. How many 1/4 miles on one charge while in beast mode? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said: *** cough (I don't see Tesla listed here in the top 10 fastest production cars). It runs a high 10s 1/4 btw. https://blog.dupontregistry.com/features/top-10-fastest-quarter-mile-times-production-cars/ I don't know how to split topics or I'd cut all of our car talk from this morning out and put it in another thread. I don't consider any of these as "production vehicles", if we're considering vehicles this rare, the 2020 roadsters out there already murder all of them. Will admit the Challenger Demon is arguably close though, have a feeling Tesla wasn't included due to the usual bias. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said: The ability to put full torque down at 1rpm is true, but traction control systems won't actually allow the car to do that. Now, the electric dirt bikes (toys) are pretty bad ass..... I like them because they're quiet and people have been getting away with riding them all over the city lol. Kids here go crazy with gas dirtbikes already, police rarely give chase. A lot of these kids while ride wheelie past NYPD like they don't even exist with just 110cc's Still would prefer an electric supermoto if I robbed a bank or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Well, it said top 10 fastest with the number ten place doing faster than the Tesla's "fastest" time of 10.6s. I would take ANY of those cars over any current or future model of tesla anyday. I think it's mighty big headed of Elon to think he can compete with over a hundred years of refinement. EVs have a LONG way to go before they'll be replacing any ICE vehicles in my garage, and it's not because I'm being a hold out redneck..... it's because they're not good enough for my purposes. I've felt speed, I own fast cars, the speed of a Tesla doesn't excite me like it does for people that have never owned a fast car or for people that are not capable of upgrading a car to be faster than stock. Another thing is, if you have a Tesla.... you're ONLY as fast as other Teslas, there is literally 0 to set you apart from everyone else. In the ICE world, there are many factors, and a whole lot of uniqueness/innovation. As much as I like Apple for phones.... I feel like Tesla is trying to be the Apple of cars.... and I don't agree w/ that for cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Kults said: That’s impressive. How many 1/4 miles on one charge while in beast mode? That was 3 in a row. I'm guessing that's the max number of times based on several youtube rabbit holes on this subject. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, Mercer said: That was 3 in a row. I'm guessing that's the max number of times based on several youtube rabbit holes on this subject. Theres the rub. Thats pathetic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Yeah the running from cops on bikes thing has always been easy on a sports bike..... supermotos make it like fucking impossible to catch a person running on one. I think the ONLY way a police could catch a supermoto ridden by a skilled rider would be if they had a supermoto and were equally/more skilled. Lane splitting on motorcycles makes chasing them with cars in traffic basically out of the question. The suspension (dirt bike style) on a supermoto makes them able to EASILY hop a curb, ride UP stairs, down stairs, ride off big drop offs, and launch over things like fences w/ embankments next to them. I think most cops know they're out of they're league when someone is doing something on a super moto. I actually want to get a set of rims and put street tires on them for my KTM.... could be a lot of fun 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Dirty_habiT said: Well, it said top 10 fastest with the number ten place doing faster than the Tesla's "fastest" time of 10.6s. I would take ANY of those cars over any current or future model of tesla anyday. I think it's mighty big headed of Elon to think he can compete with over a hundred years of refinement. EVs have a LONG way to go before they'll be replacing any ICE vehicles in my garage, and it's not because I'm being a hold out redneck..... it's because they're not good enough for my purposes. I've felt speed, I own fast cars, the speed of a Tesla doesn't excite me like it does for people that have never owned a fast car or for people that are not capable of upgrading a car to be faster than stock. Another thing is, if you have a Tesla.... you're ONLY as fast as other Teslas, there is literally 0 to set you apart from everyone else. In the ICE world, there are many factors, and a whole lot of uniqueness/innovation. As much as I like Apple for phones.... I feel like Tesla is trying to be the Apple of cars.... and I don't agree w/ that for cars. Granted, personal taste is personal taste, but with that said I'd still rather rock a base configuration Model 3, over a modded civic hatchback with a 7 second 1/4 mile which is the fastest car I had the opportunity to ride in. Granted, I'm not into fast cars, more of an SUV type of dude, fastest thing I owned was a modded VW Corrado (G ladder) back in Denver. The only mods I've seen for Teslas are stripping the interior out, for a few fractions of a second advantage which I thought was stupid AF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Yeah, 3 runs at the drag strip.... to do the EXACT same MPH each run.... sucks. For those that don't know..... driver skill + car's ability = 1/4 mile time. car's ability = 1/4 mile mph. What this means is, with the same setup, performing the same.... you could "launch" off the line in 3rd gear, shift to 4th almost all the way down the track..... and you'll pass the gate doing nearly the exact same MPH as if you had beat the shit out of your drivetrain launching the car to get that 1.2s 60ft time. The driver's reaction time and ability to shift the car properly will add up to a faster E/T..... but the same car will always run the same MPH. This sucks for a Tesla because these guys are all circle jerking eachother like nascar drivers on who can react to the light the quickest. Whoever reacts quickest in the top of the line tesla currently holds the quickest record. I'm also highlighting the difference between quickest and fastest. Quick is a time description. Fast is a speed description. All Teslas are as fast as the next. While they're looking for a supercharging station, I'll be going back to the pits and putting a little more e85 in my car from the drum in the trailer. The Teslas are not race cars. Cars with hybrid systems are MUCH more impressive to me. Take your pick from any of the hypercars, that's my shit right there. I still think, however, if money weren't an object for me, I wouldn't be buying a 918 Spyder, I'd be getting a 997 GT2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kults said: Theres the rub. Thats pathetic. I guess, but you're looking for minor excuses to support your opinion, while ignoring the big picture. Having a huge range isn't important for 90% of drivers out there, granted neither is looking over at a hellcat and knowing you'll smoke it off the line. In the context of racing it's all about the W, how many people say OK best 4 out of 7 after getting their ass handed to them thrice in a row? Edited November 7, 2019 by Mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Corrado is a cool car. Honda civics suck dick. I don't care how fast they are the motor doesn't make enough torque to pull a dead hooker off a toilet. Torque is what everyone is after whether they realize it or not..... Diesels provide a fuck ton of torque and that will be my next vehicle purchase. I'm either going to buy a 12 valve cummins (92-98.5 year model Ram), or I'm going to get a 6BT (12v cummins) and swap it into my 99 GMC Suburban chassis. I'm not sure I want to turn my Suburban into a project though because I am already up to my eyeballs in projects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Mercer said: I guess, but you're looking for minor excuses to support your opinion, while ignoring the big picture. Having a huge range isn't important for 90% of drivers out there, granted neither is looking over at a hellcat and knowing you'll smoke it off the line. In the context of racing it's all about the W, how many people say OK best 4 out of 7 after getting their ass handed to them thrice in a row? Only an idiot would agree to race a Tesla off the line. They have superior electronic traction control systems that allow you to basically floor it in the rain.... and it will still accelerate like a missile. You cannot compete with this (easily). If I were racing a Tesla, I'd just say, ok.... we'll roll race, and we'll do it from 70mph to 120mph..... there are MANY cars that will obliterate a Tesla in that scenario. Racing off the line just shows that you're probably not that smart of a car guy because you're just agreeing to take the L. If you're skilled and have an amazingly awesome/expensive car like one of those 10 listed in that link I posted.... well then go for it.... but I wouldn't waste my gas on a Tesla owner if we're being frank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mercer said: I guess, but you're looking for minor excuses to support your opinion, while ignoring the big picture. Having a huge range isn't important for 90% of drivers out there, granted neither is looking over at a hellcat and knowing you'll smoke it off the line. In the context of racing it's all about the W, how many people say OK best 4 out of 7 after getting their ass handed to them thrice in a row? Yes Ill give you that for sure. The W IS everything in racing. That being said, its a little hard to take the contender seriously when their big claim to fame for being the fastest car is ekeing out a win in the 1/4 mile only to die after three of em. Lets enter one at Le Mans, Sebring etc and see how well it does. This is not a race car. I could just as easily say you touting the 1/4 mile as if its everything is a minor point to support your POV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Also, if someone wants to start exploring the differences in power to weight ratio..... that's where things start to get fun and you start realizing what cars actually suck vs. which ones kick ass. The manufacturers never will tell you power to weight on a commercial, they will, however, parade that HP number all around to give people big eyes and blue balls. Power to weight, as I'm sure you guys are aware, is exactly why it's extremely difficult to be faster than a sports bike. All the big boys roll race modded sports bikes and beat them. Haven't seen any Teslas claiming victories in the huge balls sectors of racing yet. Just the easy low hanging fruit of beating people dumb enough to try racing from a stop at a drag strip. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Now, I will say that one of the "merits" of an EV is the extremely cheap cost of operation. I've heard that "filling up" in terms of electricity cost at home plugging it in is really affordable in comparison to gasoline. I cannot argue with that at all, other than the fact that the cost of entry into such a scenario is a bit steeper than what a lot of people in the USA can afford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I hope this guy made it home after doing all these runs..... I don't think it's impressive that a fat dude on a 600cc bike was BARELY beaten at the top of 130mph. As you see in the second race, the liter bike has no problem just waxing the shit out of both the bike and the Tesla. Tesla is NOT going to be able to compete in this arena anytime soon.... there are several ICE cars out there that are very capable of out accelerating liter bikes in roll races. Later in the video, you see that a GTR with "FBO" (yeah right I say because that can mean any level of mild to wild mods)..... and the EVO just drag the Tesla all over the highway. No problem, got Teslas covered..... and they will race over and over and over..... while the Tesla will have to go take a break to think about his life choices an recharge at the supercharging station. Maybe he'll be back to race again tomorrow with the EXACT same results, not capable of doing anything to the Tesla to make it perform any differently then dictator Elon says it can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kults said: Yes Ill give you that for sure. The W IS everything in racing. That being said, its a little hard to take the contender seriously when their big claim to fame for being the fastest car is ekeing out a win in the 1/4 mile only to die after three of em. Lets enter one at Le Mans, Sebring etc and see how well it does. This is not a race car. I could just as easily say you touting the 1/4 mile as if its everything is a minor point to support your POV. 1/4 mile is hands down the most important race in terms of real street racing, and actually winning is more important than having the ability to come in 2nd place 30 times in a row before refueling. I mean yea, you might better of in a Koegnigsegg, Bughatti or something expensive from Italy on a track like Le Mans for now, but I'd still rather do laps in a P100D than in most American muscle cars (minus a ZR1). Once Tesla actually enters the supercar class in 2020 (probably 2022) it's game over on the streets. Gas cars had a head start of 100+ years, and started got once Tesla released it's first performance sedan. I'd say that's a pretty impressive start, and a clear sign of a major technological shift that's about to take place once these EV's are out of their infancy. Probably why car enthusiasts over 30 get so emotional, and spit so much hate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said: Also, if someone wants to start exploring the differences in power to weight ratio..... that's where things start to get fun and you start realizing what cars actually suck vs. which ones kick ass. The manufacturers never will tell you power to weight on a commercial, they will, however, parade that HP number all around to give people big eyes and blue balls. Power to weight, as I'm sure you guys are aware, is exactly why it's extremely difficult to be faster than a sports bike. All the big boys roll race modded sports bikes and beat them. Haven't seen any Teslas claiming victories in the huge balls sectors of racing yet. Just the easy low hanging fruit of beating people dumb enough to try racing from a stop at a drag strip. Again, not really into working on/moddding cars myself but understand this. They really can't be modded effectively (yet). I'm more into off road capabilities these days anyway where power vs weight is key. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mercer said: I mean yea, you might better of in a Koegnigsegg, Bughatti or something expensive from Italy on a track like Le Mans for now, but I'd still rather do laps in a P100D than in most American muscle cars (minus a ZR1). Once Tesla actually enters the supercar class in 2020 (probably 2022) it's game over on the streets Ahem..or a Ford 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Damn son! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Mercer said: Damn son! Right?! Lets get @misteravenin on this, I know he loves his Teslas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Not where he live's, they've probably have a total range on a full charge of 1/4 mile during the long winters up there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mercer said: Not where he live's, they've probably have a total range on a full charge of 1/4 mile during the long winters up there. We do have a ton of em here already, I really wonder how they do it on -30 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I see like 10 Teslas every day in Austin on my commute to and fro. They're super popular. I'm not sure what you can even do to an electric motor. I do have experience in this actually from messing with quad rotor fpv racing drones. There is constantly a trade off between weight, engine power, power consumption, and battery capacity/ability to discharge quickly/efficiently. It boils down to there is no free lunch. You are not going to see someone w/ a Tesla, with the same electric motor as the next guy make his car faster without sacrificing his range significantly. Oh, you want to be faster and have more range, ok.... now you need more batteries, and you're heavier.... and now you're not faster. The ONLY way you're going to get more performant cars in that sector is by increasing the battery technology, which has largely remained unchanged for a very long time. Teslas run on vape batteries linked together in giant packs. What I really see EV's doing is completely ruining an entire culture around motor vehicles. Some would argue this is a culture that nobody needs or "nobody cares about". I'm not upset at what Teslas do or with the people that like them for liking them..... I just don't think they belong in the "car guy" hobby. We will not be seeing them compete in any endurance races any time soon. I mean, they can..... but they're going to be pitting a whole lot to swap out those battery packs. The energy density vs. weight of gasoline vs. batteries is not even a comparison at this point. https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/13/ev-battery-energy-density-parity-gasoline-2045/ If you were to enter EV's into an endurance race against ICE cars...... what you'll see is probably every EV taking the last place positions. The ICE cars will be as fast as the EVs because they're going to be limited by their grip..... and they're going to be using the same types of tires on both vehicles. The EVs are going to have to pit way more often to change out their less energy dense power supplies while the ICE cars will continue doing laps. It won't even be a race..... or at least that's what I see in my mind. Another thing I was telling Kults earlier is that F1 basically makes all kinds of cool tech that eventually trickles down into the consumer markets. I think the future of our vehicles is going to be hybrid cars where you have some incredibly efficient, clean burning ICE powering a generator/charging a battery pack, running electric motors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Dirty_habiT said: Yeah, 3 runs at the drag strip.... to do the EXACT same MPH each run.... sucks. For those that don't know..... driver skill + car's ability = 1/4 mile time. car's ability = 1/4 mile mph. What this means is, with the same setup, performing the same.... you could "launch" off the line in 3rd gear, shift to 4th almost all the way down the track..... and you'll pass the gate doing nearly the exact same MPH as if you had beat the shit out of your drivetrain launching the car to get that 1.2s 60ft time. The driver's reaction time and ability to shift the car properly will add up to a faster E/T..... but the same car will always run the same MPH. This sucks for a Tesla because these guys are all circle jerking eachother like nascar drivers on who can react to the light the quickest. Whoever reacts quickest in the top of the line tesla currently holds the quickest record. I'm also highlighting the difference between quickest and fastest. Quick is a time description. Fast is a speed description. All Teslas are as fast as the next. While they're looking for a supercharging station, I'll be going back to the pits and putting a little more e85 in my car from the drum in the trailer. The Teslas are not race cars. Cars with hybrid systems are MUCH more impressive to me. Take your pick from any of the hypercars, that's my shit right there. I still think, however, if money weren't an object for me, I wouldn't be buying a 918 Spyder, I'd be getting a 997 GT2. GT2s are so damned sexy. When I worked at the Porsche dealer we had this one regular with a blk one.. he wouldn't really speak on it but I heard through murmurs he was known to remove the plate once a year and just book it from the city to the mountains up north a bout an hour away, couple cops in tow. By the time they'd call in the heli to track him he'd activate the kill switch, kill the lights and just lose them in the winding roads and the trees would cover him from the heli. That story always made me have this awe/fascination with that car. Obviously this was done at night past midnight with empty roads and at ridiculous speeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I dunno why it's one of my favorites, I think it's just because it's a turbo. My brother has a Cayman GT4 that was custom painted at the factory to his liking. He had it painted in classic red/white Porsche racing colors. Let me see if I can dig up a picture, that won't do it justice..... because it's fucking beautiful in person. The time he let me drive it, lo and behold, an 370z was at the stop light with us. Took it easy through first gear until the upper rpm, got into second, took it a little easy, slid the back end around just a little bit..... but it just blew the doors off that 370z. 385hp I think is what it comes with stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kults Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said: I dunno why it's one of my favorites, I think it's just because it's a turbo. My brother has a Cayman GT4 that was custom painted at the factory to his liking. He had it painted in classic red/white Porsche racing colors. Let me see if I can dig up a picture, that won't do it justice..... because it's fucking beautiful in person. The time he let me drive it, lo and behold, an 370z was at the stop light with us. Took it easy through first gear until the upper rpm, got into second, took it a little easy, slid the back end around just a little bit..... but it just blew the doors off that 370z. 385hp I think is what it comes with stock. Those colors remind me of the ultra rare one you can only buy when one of the current owners kicks the bucket and his widow sells it to you. It was on an EP of CCC with Seinfeld. Lemme see if I can dig it up. Ok I promise Im done talking about Porsches in the EV thread after this. Im partial to TURBOs myself. Every car Ive ever owned had one. SSSsss- THHHWOOOOSHHHHH I was remembering it wrong, this one is white/blue. Still so cool 911 Carrera RS 73-74 Quote The Carrera RSR 3.0 was sold to racing teams and scored wins in several major sports car races of the mid-1970s. Also, a prototype Carrera RSR Turbo (with 2.1-litre engine due to a 1.4x equivalency formula) came second at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1974 and won several major races, a significant event in that its engine would form the basis of many future Porsche attempts in sports car racing. This, and the earlier 917, was Porsche's commitment to turbocharger applications in its cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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